Spam Summon Monster as hard as possible

[Morphic tide]

As the title says, try optimizing the spamming of any Summon Monster spell, or equivalent like Summon Nature's Ally, as far as possible. No Epic content, anything else goes. Including endlessly exponential loops, but not things that have a point where they go genuinely infinite at some point. Why do it? The Inner Planes explicitly have infinite inhabitants, while the Outer Planes, specifically the Good and Evil ones, explicitly don't have truly infinite inhabitants. Force-feeding the Fiendish output of the method to Spheres of Annihilation would handily strip large sections of the Fiendish population at random, thus breaking the lower-plane ecosystem. And position in the cosmic hierarchy.

Why not only Summon Monster 9? Room for spell level adjustment. Which means War Spell. Yes, anything first party or Dragon goes, Epic excluded. This makes it so the challenge is basically "How hard can you exponent/quadradic?" Also, only mention base CL if absolutely needed for some reason. If base CL were to matter here, it could devolve into people constantly saying that their hypothetical Outer Plane depopulater can be level N+1, where N is the previous record holder's level.

Again, anything non-Epic WotC or Dragon goes, no matter how broken. So, go on and summon all the things.

[Hackulator]

As the title says, try optimizing the spamming of any Summon Monster spell, or equivalent like Summon Nature's Ally, as far as possible. No Epic content, anything else goes. Including endlessly exponential loops, but not things that have a point where they go genuinely infinite at some point. Why do it? The Inner Planes explicitly have infinite inhabitants, while the Outer Planes, specifically the Good and Evil ones, explicitly don't have truly infinite inhabitants. Force-feeding the Fiendish output of the method to Spheres of Annihilation would handily strip large sections of the Fiendish population at random, thus breaking the lower-plane ecosystem. And position in the cosmic hierarchy.

Why not only Summon Monster 9? Room for spell level adjustment. Which means War Spell. Yes, anything first party or Dragon goes, Epic included, so item GP costs don't matter. This makes it so the challenge is basically "How hard can you exponent/quadradic?" Also, only mention base CL if absolutely needed for some reason. If base CL were to matter here, it could devolve into people constantly saying that their hypothetical Outer Plane depopulater can be level N+1, where N is the previous record holder's level.

Again, anything non-Epic WotC or Dragon goes, no matter how broken. So, go on and summon all the things.

fix please thx

[Morphic tide]

fix please thx

Fixed. I decided to exclude Epic due to a Solar loop I saw which got to trillions in, like, the fifth iteration. Because each Solar has the slots of a level 20 Cleric, which means hundreds of DC cut off for each Solar.

[Bucky]

My first thought is to throw Priya (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?280365-Priya-the-Prismatic-Priestess-Buffs-Across-the-Spectrum) at the problem. Unlimited Extended Summon Monster IX castings (in practice, meaning she fills every square in reach) as a single Immediate action.

With all the level 7 or less buff spells in the book on each one for good measure.

[Morphic tide]

My first thought is to throw Priya (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?280365-Priya-the-Prismatic-Priestess-Buffs-Across-the-Spectrum) at the problem. Unlimited Extended Summon Monster IX castings as a single Immediate action.

With all the level 7 or less buff spells in the book on each one for good measure.

And this is why I excluded genuinely infinite things. Find a crazy high exponent, not a literal infinite.

[Florian]

Should PF material be an option, then the Backfire Adept PrC is a thing. Breaching Legion will re-enable all summoning SLA on summoned monsters.

[AvatarVecna]

Khepri and each of her swarms could cast a Sudden Maximized "Summon Monster IX" to summon 5 creatures from the lvl 7 list per spell (leading to 5*NI). Not infinite by any stretch of the imagination, but close enough that it's been accused of being infinite. :smalltongue:

[Bakkan]

I'm interested in your source for the Outer Planes not having infinite inhabitants. In particular, I was pretty sure that it's at least rumored that the Abyss contains infinitely many demons.

[Florian]

I'm interested in your source for the Outer Planes not having infinite inhabitants. In particular, I was pretty sure that it's at least rumored that the Abyss contains infinitely many demons.

That one is easy: Following the path of souls, you start with the Positive Energy Plane, they move over to the Prime Material, die and end up in one of the Outer Planes. So basically, here can only be so and so much Outsiders as the number of people that have been alive since the beginning of time and creation, making the number finite.

[Baby Gary]

you can get infinite balors by somehow getting one and getting it to use it's Summon Demon power to summon a balor... you can see where this is going

[Bakkan]

That one is easy: Following the path of souls, you start with the Positive Energy Plane, they move over to the Prime Material, die and end up in one of the Outer Planes. So basically, here can only be so and so much Outsiders as the number of people that have been alive since the beginning of time and creation, making the number finite.

But that only applies to outsiders that were once mortals, which, I believe, is not all of them.

[Bucky]

And this is why I excluded genuinely infinite things. Find a crazy high exponent, not a literal infinite.

Then ditch the familiar and make her charge Absorption from her summons' spells and SLAs. High exponent, still finite.


Recursive Thought Bottle Khepri wins the technically-not-infinite game, though, by virtue of growing faster than any possible exponential. And she even makes especially good use of the summons.

[Florian]

But that only applies to outsiders that were once mortals, which, I believe, is not all of them.

It´s a bit stupid hat both, TSR and WotC, established the basic rules for the cosmology and later on again and again introduced stuff that didn't fit.

[Khedrac]

you can get infinite balors by somehow getting one and getting it to use it's Summon Demon power to summon a balor... you can see where this is going
So long as you did not summon the first one this gets you exactly 2 balors. Summoned creatures are explicitly banned from using any monster summoning powers, this is why you have to gate or otherwise 'call' solars for the "chain solar" effect.

At the lower end of the spectrum, there's some mileage in a Spirit Shaman summoning an Elemental Monolith (duration: Concentration), getting their spirit guide to concentrate on it while summoning a second one themselves (or repetitively summoning something else).

A lot of the game breaking uses of repeat spell are clearly not RAI, but there's seasonable mileage in casting repeat summon N for twice the monsters.

[Calthropstu]

We all know that wizards are able to create creatures.
Create a spell ooze of summon monster 9 with the ooze split ability and high regeneration.
Have the oozes attack each other constantly with slashing monsters.
They will eventually consume the planet.