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danielxcutter
2017-07-10, 04:05 AM
While reading the thread for #1007, I saw a comment about Durkon's defining trait being duty. That made me wonder about other characters. Do you have any opinions for a specific character?

I'd join in, but I kinda suck at judging character.

martianmister
2017-07-10, 05:57 AM
Durkon: Duty
Haley: Suspicion
Vaarsuvius: Power
Elan: Innocence
Roy: Proving himself
Belkar: Lust

Yklikt
2017-07-10, 06:00 AM
Belkar is more like killing things

danielxcutter
2017-07-10, 06:04 AM
Belkar is more like killing things

The broader meaning of lust still fits him rather well, though.

Grey_Wolf_c
2017-07-10, 06:25 AM
I agree with martianmister's list, except Roy, which I'd change to
Roy: Pride

In both the positive and negative implications of it.

GW

KorvinStarmast
2017-07-10, 07:33 AM
For Belkar I'd go with "carnality" or "hedonism" but I'll try a different angle:


Selfish.

Roy: Seeking

The adventurer typically is looking for "something" and Roy strikes me as a restless spirit who needs to be accomplishing something. He needs a goal so that he has something to strive for.

Lacuna Caster
2017-07-10, 09:58 AM
Destruction. Belkar is Destruction.

Roy is Obligation.

KorvinStarmast
2017-07-10, 02:59 PM
Destruction. Belkar is Destruction.

Roy is Obligation.
I like Destruction (set fire to the tent!) and Entropy might also fit.

yeah, Obligation for Roy


Question: is your avatar a take on Miko, or a ref to a different character from a different story?

littlebum2002
2017-07-10, 04:11 PM
Durkon: Duty
Haley: Suspicion
Vaarsuvius: Power
Elan: Innocence
Roy: Proving himself
Belkar: Lust

I like these. Let's see if we can assign a Deadly Sin or Cardinal Virtue to each.

Durkon: ---
Haley: Greed
Vaarsuvius: Wrath
Elan: ---
Roy: Pride
Belkar: Lust (all of them really)

Durkon: Patience
Haley: Humility
Vaarsuvius: Diligence
Elan: Kindness
Roy: Charity
Belkar: http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z257/kerisrain/other/XD.png


I honestly couldn't think of any Deadly Sins for Durkon or Elan, and the idea of a Vitrue even coming within 50' of Belkar is pretty hilarious

Lacuna Caster
2017-07-10, 04:40 PM
Question: is your avatar a take on Miko, or a ref to a different character from a different story?
It's a take on Miko. I felt that a samurai outfit doesn't really match her fighting style, so I was trying to adapt a sort of ninja getup (https://www.halloweencostumes.com/blades-of-death-mens-ninja-costume.html). Not entirely happy yet, but it's WIP.

goodpeople25
2017-07-10, 06:46 PM
I like these. Let's see if we can assign a Deadly Sin or Cardinal Virtue to each.

Durkon: ---
Haley: Greed
Vaarsuvius: Wrath
Elan: ---
Roy: Pride
Belkar: Lust (all of them really)

Durkon: Patience
Haley: Humility
Vaarsuvius: Diligence
Elan: Kindness
Roy: Charity
Belkar: http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z257/kerisrain/other/XD.png


I honestly couldn't think of any Deadly Sins for Durkon or Elan, and the idea of a Vitrue even coming within 50' of Belkar is pretty hilarious
Different aspects of Sloth for both maybe? Closest I can think of currently.

woweedd
2017-07-10, 09:17 PM
I like these. Let's see if we can assign a Deadly Sin or Cardinal Virtue to each.

Durkon: ---
Haley: Greed
Vaarsuvius: Wrath
Elan: ---
Roy: Pride
Belkar: Lust (all of them really)

Durkon: Patience
Haley: Humility
Vaarsuvius: Diligence
Elan: Kindness
Roy: Charity
Belkar: http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z257/kerisrain/other/XD.png


I honestly couldn't think of any Deadly Sins for Durkon or Elan, and the idea of a Vitrue even coming within 50' of Belkar is pretty hilarious
(Emphasis mine.)
Except Sloth. He's too busy committing the other 6 to worry about Sloth.

goodpeople25
2017-07-10, 09:25 PM
(Emphasis mine.)
Except Sloth. He's too busy committing the other 6 to worry about Sloth.
I don't know, Sloth is a pretty broad sin. I think it could easily apply to Belkar.

Liquor Box
2017-07-10, 09:36 PM
I like these. Let's see if we can assign a Deadly Sin or Cardinal Virtue to each.

Durkon: ---
Haley: Greed
Vaarsuvius: Wrath
Elan: ---
Roy: Pride
Belkar: Lust (all of them really)

Durkon: Patience
Haley: Humility
Vaarsuvius: Diligence
Elan: Kindness
Roy: Charity
Belkar: http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z257/kerisrain/other/XD.png


I honestly couldn't think of any Deadly Sins for Durkon or Elan, and the idea of a Vitrue even coming within 50' of Belkar is pretty hilarious

Courage is a Cardinal Virtue that could apply to Belkar, although it could also apply to some of the others.

I don't really think Humility applies to Hayley.

woweedd
2017-07-11, 05:36 AM
Courage is a Cardinal Virtue that could apply to Belkar, although it could also apply to some of the others.

I don't really think Humility applies to Hayley.
She literally had an entire plotline based around getting over her intense Self-Loathing. If anything, she has far TOO MUCH Humility.

hamishspence
2017-07-11, 06:36 AM
Self-loathing and humility are not the same thing.

O-Chul is a much better example of someone who has extreme humility - and doesn't have self-loathing.

woweedd
2017-07-11, 07:11 AM
Self-loathing and humility are not the same thing.

O-Chul is a much better example of someone who has extreme humility - and doesn't have self-loathing.
One could argue self-loathing is simply humility taken to a a bad extreme.

Vinyadan
2017-07-11, 08:42 AM
Courage is a Cardinal Virtue that could apply to Belkar, although it could also apply to some of the others.

I don't really think Humility applies to Hayley.

In the olden definition, virtues are all aimed towards good. So Prudence is the virtue of discerning good from evil and choosing the correct ways to obtain it (good), Temperance is the virtue of not indulging to desires and instincts that slide into evil, Justice is the virtue of equity targeted to the common good, and Courage is the virtue of pursuing good in the face of danger and adversity. So I am not sure that Belkar normally displays courage in the virtue sense. The only time he showed it was imho when he talked down Roy after having seen Durkon getting killed.

Now, my traits:

Roy: Driven.
Durkon: Loyal.
Vaarsuvius: Driven > Penitent
Haley: Hiding > Provident
Elan: Joyous.
Belkar: Selfish > Simulating > Vengeful.

Both Roy and V were very good students and cared about mastering their arts. They then set off to very specific objectives. Roy is still going after them, but V is mostly trying to atone for what he's done. Durkon is incredibly loyal, and that seems to me the only reason he keeps being what he is after having been thrown out like that. Haley has spent a large part of the comic hiding: hiding her feelings, hiding herself, hiding her past and from her past. I wrote "provident" as an evolution, because, after Bozzok died, she doesn't have much left to hide from, and she's always been the one who goes for the more useful items or complains about their absence, but that's not a strong trait. Elan is joyous because he want himself and everybody to be happy. Belkar started off as outright murderous psychopath with no other interest than himself. He later had the dream and started feigning interest into collaborating with the party. Maybe he changed a bit because of the cat, but I think that his strongest drive right now is killing Dorkula for slights towards himself and Durkon.

Kurald Galain
2017-07-11, 09:04 AM
I like these. Let's see if we can assign a Deadly Sin or Cardinal Virtue to each.

Durkon fits Sloth rather well, he tends towards being inactive (e.g. during DSTP). I'd say Elan tends towards gluttony because he sees that as part of being a bard. Pride goes best with Vaarsuvius (that's basically V's Fatal Flaw), wrath with Belkar, and envy with Roy since he really feels he has to prove something to people.

I'm not seeing a lot of humility in Haley; since her character development, temperance would be a better fit (except for having lots of sex with Elan, but nobody's perfect :) )

KorvinStarmast
2017-07-11, 12:31 PM
It's a take on Miko. I felt that a samurai outfit doesn't really match her fighting style, so I was trying to adapt a sort of ninja getup (https://www.halloweencostumes.com/blades-of-death-mens-ninja-costume.html). Not entirely happy yet, but it's WIP. I like it a lot, would love to see your final version in full sized form. (Yeah, she's got a nice mix of monk and paladin in her fighting style).

Liquor Box
2017-07-12, 03:09 AM
In the olden definition, virtues are all aimed towards good. So Prudence is the virtue of discerning good from evil and choosing the correct ways to obtain it (good), Temperance is the virtue of not indulging to desires and instincts that slide into evil, Justice is the virtue of equity targeted to the common good, and Courage is the virtue of pursuing good in the face of danger and adversity. So I am not sure that Belkar normally displays courage in the virtue sense. The only time he showed it was imho when he talked down Roy after having seen Durkon getting killed.

Belkar is definitely couragous by the usual definition - that is he is brave enough to face things that he knows endanger him, and that is a virtuous thing. But I agree he does not fit within the definition you use.


Now, my traits:

Roy: Driven.
Durkon: Loyal.
Vaarsuvius: Driven > Penitent
Haley: Hiding > Provident
Elan: Joyous.
Belkar: Selfish > Simulating > Vengeful.

Both Roy and V were very good students and cared about mastering their arts. They then set off to very specific objectives. Roy is still going after them, but V is mostly trying to atone for what he's done. Durkon is incredibly loyal, and that seems to me the only reason he keeps being what he is after having been thrown out like that. Haley has spent a large part of the comic hiding: hiding her feelings, hiding herself, hiding her past and from her past. I wrote "provident" as an evolution, because, after Bozzok died, she doesn't have much left to hide from, and she's always been the one who goes for the more useful items or complains about their absence, but that's not a strong trait. Elan is joyous because he want himself and everybody to be happy. Belkar started off as outright murderous psychopath with no other interest than himself. He later had the dream and started feigning interest into collaborating with the party. Maybe he changed a bit because of the cat, but I think that his strongest drive right now is killing Dorkula for slights towards himself and Durkon.
This is probalby the best list anyone has put together. Belkar strikes me as being pure id, if that can be said to be a trait.

joggler45
2017-07-12, 03:13 AM
Destruction. Belkar is Destruction.



This best describes Belkar imo.

Lacuna Caster
2017-07-12, 12:15 PM
I like it a lot, would love to see your final version in full sized form. (Yeah, she's got a nice mix of monk and paladin in her fighting style).
Sure, can do.

EDIT: I have just finished my avatar and now realise that it is crap. I will have to redraw the pose.

Liquor Box
2017-07-12, 05:50 PM
She literally had an entire plotline based around getting over her intense Self-Loathing. If anything, she has far TOO MUCH Humility.

Sorry, I missed this response earlier.

I'm not sure what humility means to you, but I don't think it means self loathing. I think it means a person who is not overly arrogant, cocky or prideful. Self-loathing is not humility taken too far, it is a completely different thing.

I think Littlebum's comments were a reference to the seven heavenly virtues, which are described here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_virtues
That article defines humility as follows:


Humility is not thinking less of yourself, it is thinking of yourself less. It is a spirit of self-examination; a hermeneutic of suspicion toward yourself and charity toward others.
Ignorance breeds pride. Pride is not the opposite of shame, but the source of it. Knowledge breeds humility. Humility is the antidote to shame.
Humility is the courage of the heart necessary to undertake tasks which are difficult, tedious or unglamorous, and to graciously accept the sacrifices involved. Giving credit where credit is due; not unduly glorifying one's own self.
Refraining from despair; the ability to confront fear and uncertainty, or intimidation


I have bolded the parts that seem to me to make it clear that humility is very different to self-loathing. In particular, I note that "Refraining from despair" is an element of humility, which perhaps means that Haley's self-loathing takes her further away from the trait of humility.