Net shenanigans and build advice

[nickl_2000]

so on the net it says
When you use an action, Bonus Action, or reaction to Attack with a net, you can make only one Attack regardless of the number of attacks you can normally make.

So, by RAW would I be able to use a net as a reaction or bonus action and cast a spell as my action? To go even further, if I had a wizard level dip with booming blade, could I use the net and then also cast booming blade on the same turn? If not booming blade could you net and fire bolt?

Technically a spell is listed in the PHB as a separate action from attack, but I didn't know if I was stretching in things.


Also, if you were to do a net fighter how would you build it? I was thinking an archer battle master fighter with a wizard level dip at 2 or 3 for cantrips and shield would just be fun to play.

[Naanomi]

You still need to take an attack action to throw... best use is on a beastmaster who gives his pets the other attack

[nickl_2000]

You still need to take an attack action to throw... best use is on a beastmaster who gives his pets the other attack

Why can't you throw as a reaction?

[Naanomi]

Why can't you throw as a reaction?
What reaction ability allows you to make a ranged weapon attack?

[Mellack]

Why can't you throw as a reaction?

I suppose you could if you used your action to ready an attack.

[XmonkTad]

Crossbow Expert is pretty much a must-have for a net user. Nets have a range of 5/15 so it's quite beneficial to be able to point-blank something. Also, since nets are one handed, you can make a bonus action attack with a hand crossbow.

[Naanomi]

Crossbow Expert is pretty much a must-have for a net user. Nets have a range of 5/15 so it's quite beneficial to be able to point-blank something. Also, since nets are one handed, you can make a bonus action attack with a hand crossbow.
Sharpshooter works as well, because of the range increase. Getting the extra hand-crossbow attack is questionable given the 'only one attack' stipulation on the net

[Sigreid]

I would rule that you can take your full attack action, and use TWF to use your bonus action to throw the net. But, if you use the net with your attack action, you would lose your extra attacks.

[Desteplo]

Eldritch knight you can cast a non attack cantrip (one with a save or utility) then net as bonus action

[MaxWilson]

Eldritch knight you can cast a non attack cantrip (one with a save or utility) then net as bonus action

Blade Ward could be a good choice there.

Even better, at 13th+ level as an Eldritch Knight you can animate a ton of skeletons and have THEM throw nets with their actions. (Or if against high-AC enemies, have half of them throw and half of them Help.) E.g. 12 skeletons = 12 actions = 12 nets.

[Aaron Underhand]

What reaction ability allows you to make a ranged weapon attack?

Good catch - seems impossible with RAW, needs a new feat:

Net Master (Retarius?)

When you make a melee attack with a one handed weapon you can make a bonus attack with a net held in your other hand.

Being within 5 feet of a hostile creature doesn’t impose disadvantage on your ranged attack rolls.

When a hostile creature’s movement provokes an opportunity attack from you, you can use your reaction to cast a net at the creature, rather than making an opportunity attack.

Job done :-)

[nickl_2000]

What reaction ability allows you to make a ranged weapon attack?

I was thinking an AoO, but you are completely right. There is no AoO for ranged weapons (doh). I guess it would still be possible to take the warcaster feat and use the net as an action and still have a spell as a reaction



Crossbow Expert is pretty much a must-have for a net user. Nets have a range of 5/15 so it's quite beneficial to be able to point-blank something. Also, since nets are one handed, you can make a bonus action attack with a hand crossbow.


Sharpshooter works as well, because of the range increase. Getting the extra hand-crossbow attack is questionable given the 'only one attack' stipulation on the net

Actually I was thinking the close quarters shooter if you were allowed Unearthed Arcana. That would solve your issue from 5 feet easily at level 1 for a fighter without being human. If you want, you can still take sharpshooter as it would still be useful as an archer.



I would rule that you can take your full attack action, and use TWF to use your bonus action to throw the net. But, if you use the net with your attack action, you would lose your extra attacks.

That would be a DMs call, I'm pretty sure that this would be a homebrew and not RAW.


I guess my thoughts last night weren't as good as I was thinking. The beastmaster or minion route would be the best way to go, although this would be interesting as a valor bard as well.

[nickl_2000]

Eldritch knight you can cast a non attack cantrip (one with a save or utility) then net as bonus action

Cast mending to fix the net that they just slashed open to get out of, pick it up as a free interaction, and then throw it on them again! :smallamused:

[Vaz]

Berserker Barbarian using Frenzy can throw a net with their bonus, and still get 2 Attacks.

[Quoxis]

Berserker Barbarian using Frenzy can throw a net with their bonus, and still get 2 Attacks.

Adding monk and war cleric to the list of characters with bonus action attacks (though monks can technically only attack with unarmed strikes as a bonus action, but how about throwing the net as an action?).

[PeteNutButter]

How about Hunter Ranger? Whenever Horde Breaker is viable you can pop a net on someone, which doesn't use an action, bonus action or reaction. You may even be able to throw two nets with that "action," DM dependent. For added coolness you can put Hunter's Mark on them first to have your net deal 1d6 damage. Nowhere does it say you have to deal damage with the attack, just that it be a weapon attack.

I'd definitely think crossbow expert works with it as well.

The real strength of the net is using it to keep away from folks. So sharpshooter lets you toss it at 15ft without disadvantage.

Net cheese, engaged.

EDIT: You could instead cast ensnaring strike before you toss the net so they are stuck in both.

EDIT2: Since the net is a weapon attack that opens a whole can of worms. A Battle Master can do moves with it. How would it combine with a Lightning Arrow spell? It turns into a lightning bolt, hits them, then turns back into a net... Oh how the DM rulings will vary.

EDIT37: Also Haste. Another action to be rapid firing nets.

[Sage Tellah]

There's already a RAW way to throw a net as a reaction in the Ranger's Giant Slayer. Only works against Large creatures hitting you from 5 feet away, but it's there, and one of very few reasons to take that ability. Horde Breaker wouldn't allow a throw, it's another attack made as part of the same attack action.

Haste does work, since that's an entire extra action. Berserker's Frenzy demands the attack be a melee weapon attack, despite my high hopes for it. Two weapon fighting also fails to work for the same reason. Monks can't take a single bonus action attack with Martial Arts since a net isn't a monk weapon and can't become one, even for a Kensei, but you can spend Ki to Flurry Of Blows with or without a monk weapon so long as you take the Attack action.

Crossbow Expert only removes the Loading quality, which isn't specifically what's limiting this, and only from crossbows, which this isn't. Still a good feat for a net user, for its melee ranged attacking and bonus action shot to follow up against the restrained target.

The net is a good tool to have for single, large opponents or when you have an action economy in your favor, such as near the end of a fight, because the check is generally reliably made or the damage done to break out, making throwing the net a trade of actions. It's the sort of extra option a martial needs, but not something to base an entire build around.

A thought occurs... Could you simply declare you're making a melee weapon attack with the net as an improvised weapon? Wouldn't remove the special quality that restrains on hit, and it would deal 1d4 damage to boot. This would also use your strength instead of dexterity, for better or worse. Definitely not in practice, but the rules might support it.

[Vaz]

If you really want to abuse Net, Glyph of Warding Conjure Minor Elementals for Mud Mephits, and give them all Nets. Lasts for an hour, they can breath mud for a Restrain, throw the net for Restrain while it's recharging, and explode with a Dex save or restrain. And you have 8 of them. Who can all fly.

[PeteNutButter]

Crossbow Expert only removes the Loading quality, which isn't specifically what's limiting this, and only from crossbows, which this isn't. Still a good feat for a net user, for its melee ranged attacking and bonus action shot to follow up against the restrained target.


I meant CE works in that you still get an attack after you toss the net via your bonus action.

I think you could totally build a character around this. It isn't optimal, but could be fun. Probably just go dex based sorcerer gish for haste and avoid extra attack. With Haste and Quicken BB/GFB you can get 3 attacks a round, using one or two to net.

[nickl_2000]

Also, action surging after a net could be one of the most powerful things ever. You use one round to toss a net on top of them making them restrained. Then you action surge to pound on them over and over again with advantage.

[nickl_2000]

SNIP
EDIT2: Since the net is a weapon attack that opens a whole can of worms. A Battle Master can do moves with it. How would it combine with a Lightning Arrow spell? It turns into a lightning bolt, hits them, then turns back into a net... Oh how the DM rulings will vary..

This is exactly what I was thinking about doing. You toss a net over the top of them and also disarm them and do damage at the same time. Or you could do a menacing attack so the person is frightened of you and restrained by you (what would happen in this situation?)

[Naanomi]

From my reading of RAW most of the proposed methods don't work... the net limits itself to the only attack you can make, getting a bonus action attack from an odd-hand weapon or class ability doesn't bypass it. Haste may (especially if you do 'held action' shuffles); as would action surge... but my reading of Crossbow Expert, Martial Arts, Frenzy... none of those seem to bypass the strict wording on the Net mechanics

As for combining it with weapon attack spells... one of my favorite 5e moments was throwing a net on someone with Ensnaring Strike; then my giant crab pet grappled them. Triple lockdown!

[RickAsWritten]

A warlock could Hex(STR checks) and then chuck a net. Might keep them restrained for a bit longer if they don't have slashing damage or a friend.

[MaxWilson]

Cast mending to fix the net that they just slashed open to get out of, pick it up as a free interaction, and then throw it on them again! :smallamused:

Doesn't work unfortunately. Mending takes a minute to cast, not one action.

[PeteNutButter]

From my reading of RAW most of the proposed methods don't work... the net limits itself to the only attack you can make, getting a bonus action attack from an odd-hand weapon or class ability doesn't bypass it. Haste may (especially if you do 'held action' shuffles); as would action surge... but my reading of Crossbow Expert, Martial Arts, Frenzy... none of those seem to bypass the strict wording on the Net mechanics

I think you may be misunderstanding the wording of this poorly worded sentence: "When you use an action, Bonus Action, or reaction to Attack with a net, you can make only one Attack regardless of the number of attacks you can normally make."

It specifies that (a) when you use an action, bonus action or reaction to attack with a net, (b) you can only make one attack regardless of the number of attacks you can normally make [with that action].

It can trick people into thinking it's like the slow spell making it for "the rest of your turn," but the only thing it mentions is the action, not the turn or anything else. If you think that part (a) isn't setting a condition for part (b) then there is only one attack your character can ever make. Ever. That was it. Not for the round, not for the turn, not for the session. Better just take the help action for the rest of his career. :smallyuk:

Part (a) is setting the "time limit" so to speak for part (b), and the limit is for that action.

This is also why I'd argue that Horde Breaker would not trigger the net limitation RAW since you are not using your action to attack (it is essentially a free action that is triggered).

[MaxWilson]

How about Hunter Ranger? Whenever Horde Breaker is viable you can pop a net on someone, which doesn't use an action, bonus action or reaction. You may even be able to throw two nets with that "action," DM dependent.

Maybe even Volley with nets! Since Volley is a single attack that targets multiple creatures, the restriction doesn't apply.

I've always loved that idea but I'm not sure if I buy that it could actually work. On the other hand, is it really more implausible than regular Volley? Nooooo...


Also, action surging after a net could be one of the most powerful things ever. You use one round to toss a net on top of them making them restrained. Then you action surge to pound on them over and over again with advantage.

That's not actually more powerful than the regular way to use action surge: Shove an enemy prone with one attack, then Action Surge to beat him to death with GWM at advantage using your other three/five/seven attacks (depending on level).

[nickl_2000]

Maybe even Volley with nets! Since Volley is a single attack that targets multiple creatures, the restriction doesn't apply.

I've always loved that idea but I'm not sure if I buy that it could actually work. On the other hand, is it really more implausible than regular Volley? Nooooo...

You would need a bag of holding to be able to throw that many nets out at once, but I love the idea of grabbing and throwing net after net at people!

[Naanomi]

I think you may be misunderstanding the wording of this poorly worded sentence: "When you use an action, Bonus Action, or reaction to Attack with a net, you can make only one Attack regardless of the number of attacks you can normally make."

It specifies that (a) when you use an action, bonus action or reaction to attack with a net, (b) you can only make one attack regardless of the number of attacks you can normally make [with that action].
Looking over the Sage Advice tweets, this is correct... I stand corrected.

I still maintain that a beastmaster setting up his pet's attacks is one of the better uses of the net

[Sigreid]

That would be a DMs call, I'm pretty sure that this would be a homebrew and not RAW.


I prefer to think of it as rulings over rules. :smallbiggrin:

[EdenIndustries]

What do you make of this tweet from Mearls:

http://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/07/13/can-i-use-extra-attack-with-another-weapon-after-attacking-with-net/

I know he's not Crawford, but this tweet seems a bit odd? It seems to imply that you can make attacks with other weapons if you take the attack action, but only one of those can be the net?

[Vaz]

A warlock could Hex(STR checks) and then chuck a net. Might keep them restrained for a bit longer if they don't have slashing damage or a friend.

You don't really do it for the chance to keep them restrained. Even with disadvantage, it's only going to need a 12 on the weakest of humanoids. It's more for the wasted action economy. I mean, sure, Disadv might help, but not hugely.

[Tanarii]

Haste does work, since that's an entire extra action. Berserker's Frenzy demands the attack be a melee weapon attack, despite my high hopes for it. Two weapon fighting also fails to work for the same reason. Monks can't take a single bonus action attack with Martial Arts since a net isn't a monk weapon and can't become one, even for a Kensei, but you can spend Ki to Flurry Of Blows with or without a monk weapon so long as you take the Attack action.
TWF bonus action attack works with weapons with the thrown property, so you can use a Net to do it. Of course, you'll need the Dual Wielder Feat as well, since it's not a Light weapon. (Edit: clearly the DM should give some kind of rule of cool bonus if the other weapon is a trident. :smallwink: )

Flurry of blows only allows unarmed attacks, so that doesn't work.

Someone else asked what reaction abilities allow you to make a Ranged attack as a reaction. The answer is the Ready Action.

[Naanomi]

Someone else asked what reaction abilities allow you to make a Ranged attack as a reaction. The answer is the Ready Action.
True, but without Haste or Action surge that isn't bypassing the 1X net/action barrier meaningfully

[PeteNutButter]

TWF bonus action attack works with weapons with the thrown property, so you can use a Net to do it. Of course, you'll need the Dual Wielder Feat as well, since it's not a Light weapon. (Edit: clearly the DM should give some kind of rule of cool bonus if the other weapon is a trident. :smallwink: )


TWF doesn't work as it requires by default to be using one handed melee light weapons. The DW feat lifts only the light restriction, not the melee or one handed. The net is a ranged weapon.

[Tanarii]

TWF doesn't work as it requires by default to be using one handed melee light weapons. The DW feat lifts only the light restriction, not the melee or one handed. The net is a ranged weapon.
TWF specifically says you can use it with weapons with the thrown property.

Edit: ah, I see what you mean. It needs to be melee AND have the thrown property to be thrown. I stand corrected.

Incidentally this is just another way the poor Dart gets shafted compared to the dagger. First monks can't use them with Martial Arts, then they can't even TWF them to make up for it. :smallwink:


True, but without Haste or Action surge that isn't bypassing the 1X net/action barrier meaningfully
Yeah. I strongly suspect that's the correct context for the original comments.

[lperkins2]

Hm, can someone with the DW feat use an improvised weapon in the off hand? An improvised weapon counts as a melee weapon, if it happened to also be an object with the thrown property, it could arguably be throwable via the BA attack.

[PeteNutButter]

Hm, can someone with the DW feat use an improvised weapon in the off hand? An improvised weapon counts as a melee weapon, if it happened to also be an object with the thrown property, it could arguably be throwable via the BA attack.

I'd say that's a fairly hard no RAW, but you could make a case for improvised weapons counting as weapons. If you allow someone to attack appropriately with the item in their off hand which shouldn't qualify as a weapon to TWF with, then you could have someone TWF with their longsword, drop it, and use the improvised weapon they were holding in their offhand, which is actually a greatsword and do the full 2d6. It would also allow TWF with sword and board and loads of other shenanigans.