Knight or Cavalier for Mounted Combat?

[CrackedChair]

So I wanted to try a mounted combatant for a Fighter, but I am having a real hard time choosing between Cavalier or Knight.

They both do well mounted, but each one does it differently. Could somebody steer me in the right direction?

[FaceofBo]

Well, from just a glance, Knight seems to be more of a tank, controlling enemies and keeping focus on themselves, while Cavalier seems more like a mounted fighter, with the Superiority Die giving you a bit more of an edge in fighting (adds a little damage, some control with the lance knockdown, and a little survivability). It really depends on what you're looking for I guess, if you want to Tank, go Knight, if you want to be another threat, Cavalier.

[Hypersmith]

Personally I would go for Knight. It emphasizes placement and protection. In my opinion, Cavalier just feels awkward - it's like a mini battlemaster that will use trip attack even more. The knight feels more interesting and reliable at a quick glance, especially because you can force disadvantage on attacks against your steed (if you haven't grabbed the mounted combatant feat.)

If you are knocked off your mount, knight still stands strong, whereas Cavalier I feel will struggle more.

[Solunaris]

You know, I'd say between the two choices Knight is the obvious pick. Cavalier feels like a worse Battlemaster with less good maneuvers. Actually, can I recommend Battlemaster and just take Mounted Combat at 4th level? I mean, it's not like Cavalier or Knight give you anything uniquely suited to mounted combat except the quick mounting and dismounting.

[PeteNutButter]

You know, I'd say between the two choices Knight is the obvious pick. Cavalier feels like a worse Battlemaster with less good maneuvers. Actually, can I recommend Battlemaster and just take Mounted Combat at 4th level? I mean, it's not like Cavalier or Knight give you anything uniquely suited to mounted combat except the quick mounting and dismounting.

This^

The classes don't make you any better at being mounted in any meaningful way. Paladin still makes the best mounted warrior with his Find Steed spell. Anyone can be a mounted fighter with mounted combatant feat.

[Aett_Thorn]

Go Halfling or Gnome (or Goblin/Kobold from Volo's), go Beastmaster Ranger, and get yourself a fun mount instead of just some silly old horse. Like a wolf, a mastiff, or a Giant Wolf Spider. A Goblin mounted on a spider sounds like it would terrify an opponent.

[Maxilian]

This^

The classes don't make you any better at being mounted in any meaningful way. Paladin still makes the best mounted warrior with his Find Steed spell. Anyone can be a mounted fighter with mounted combatant feat.

This is true.

Though you could also work with Ranger Beastmaster.

The PHB version is nice for mounted combat, but only if you're a small race. -Who don't wanna have a Pterodactyl as a mount?


(the PHB has less restriction on pets that you can get the revised version have less options, but they are better.)

Also... i don't think this is the best mounted combatant, but a Mystic (at least 2 lvl) you can become Tiny and use almost anything as a mount.

[Waterdeep Merch]

As everyone's pointed out already, neither cavaliers nor knights are appreciably better at mounted combat. In fact, paladins are innately flat out superior thanks to find steed, and certain beastmaster rangers can claim the same. With that in mind, the cavalier's a bit of a dud while the knight is actually a fairly powerful and interesting subclass. If you want one of those, take knight.

I played a halfling paladin in a campaign, and used find steed to get a dog mount. The big advantage here is that I could use my mount anywhere instead of just outside like the rest of the party, and the extra abilities afforded by find steed made it better then the rest of the party's mounts even when they got to use them.

And as a lightfoot halfling specifically, my dog was also mobile cover for making hide checks. I'd hang off the side of the dog when going past enemies to make them think it was just a dog running past.

I would have given anything to upgrade to a blink dog, even without the teleportation. I love those pups.

[Naanomi]

One of the SCAG totem Barbarian options (stag) has some minor mounted bonuses as well

[GlenSmash!]

One of the SCAG totem Barbarian options (stag) has some minor mounted bonuses as well

Not really, Only the level 6 ability mentions being mounted at all, and all it says is "Whether mounted or on foot, your travel pace is doubled, as is the travel pace of up to ten companions while they're within 60 feet of you and you're not incapacitated"

[Naanomi]

Not really, Only the level 6 ability mentions being mounted at all, and all it says is "Whether mounted or on foot, your travel pace is doubled, as is the travel pace of up to ten companions while they're within 60 feet of you and you're not incapacitated"
That is still more mechanical mention than most classes get to being mounted :smallbiggrin:. I could easily see a totem Barbarian character who regularly uses a mount (they can talk to their steed after all; and lances are a Strength-based weapon)

[GlenSmash!]

That is still more mechanical mention than most classes get to being mounted :smallbiggrin:. I could easily see a totem Barbarian character who regularly uses a mount (they can talk to their steed after all; and lances are a Strength-based weapon)

Good point. The level 14 ability works while on horseback too.

[Naanomi]

Good point. The level 14 ability works while on horseback too.
Plus you can mix-and-match totem traits so... Bear/Elk/Tiger as 'horse totem'?

[Waterdeep Merch]

Plus you can mix-and-match totem traits so... Bear/Elk/Tiger as 'horse totem'?
I kind of want to make a real 'horse totem' now. Maybe let the mount benefit from some of their rage.

Also maybe a mongol-style nomadic archery subclass. It could gain special archery benefits while raging, a few mount ribbons, and the ability to embarrass and destroy the Roman Empire.

[GlenSmash!]

I kind of want to make a real 'horse totem' now. Maybe let the mount benefit from some of their rage.

Also maybe a mongol-style nomadic archery subclass. It could gain special archery benefits while raging, a few mount ribbons, and the ability to embarrass and destroy the Roman Empire.

Adventure's in Middle Earth has a Barbarian subclass called the Rider, it does a god job of making sure each ability is useful off of a horse, but even better on one. There's probably a lot there that could be used for a horse totem.

[Naanomi]

So 'team cavalry' would be... a Totem Barbarian, a Beastmaster Ranger, a Battlemaster Fighter, and... a Paladin or Valor Bard of some kind?

[toapat]

So 'team cavalry' would be... a Totem Barbarian, a Beastmaster Ranger, a Battlemaster Fighter, and... a Paladin or Valor Bard of some kind?

more likely Lore bard. Paladin is kinda crap at being a mounted combatant as well

[Naanomi]

more likely Lore bard. Paladin is kinda crap at being a mounted combatant as well
Light armor just doesn't fit the 'cavalry' image for me...

[toapat]

Light armor just doesn't fit the 'cavalry' image for me...

i agree, but paladins dont really have any "mount" things besides Find Steed

[Naanomi]

i agree, but paladins dont really have any "mount" things besides Find Steed
True, although their auras do help keep mounts alive and the like

[PeteNutButter]

i agree, but paladins dont really have any "mount" things besides Find Steed

Find Steed is huge. Share spells is easily busted, especially if coupled with multiclassing.

[greenstone]

Paladin still makes the best mounted warrior with his Find Steed spell.

I reckon the best mounted warrior is one PC (pretty much any class) and another PC (Moon Druid).

[Waterdeep Merch]

Find Steed is huge. Share spells is easily busted, especially if coupled with multiclassing.
Yeah, I've gotta agree with this. Even without multiclassing (this is hilariously powerful on a sorcadin), the core paladin spell list allows for:

Cure Wounds
Divine Favor
Heroism
Protection from Evil and Good
Shield of Faith
Lesser Restoration
Magic Weapon (though this requires a TON of DM fiat to make useful here)
Protection from Poison
Dispel Magic
Remove Curse
Technically Revivify, though I'd be fairly impressed if you managed to use it with the spell sharing feature
Death Ward
Dispel Evil and Good
and Raise Dead (as with Revivify, you're one impressive paladin if you spell share this)

And this is before any of your subclass spells. A lot of these are rather potent and popular buffs for paladins. You can make an argument for these not making a mount that amazing, but you can't say this isn't a clear advantage over other mounted combatants.

[Civis Mundi]

I kind of want to make a real 'horse totem' now. Maybe let the mount benefit from some of their rage.

Also maybe a mongol-style nomadic archery subclass. It could gain special archery benefits while raging, a few mount ribbons, and the ability to embarrass and destroy the Roman Empire.

I agree, I'd love to see a Horse Totem Barbarian -- maybe taking stuff from Adventures in Middle-Earth, as GlenSmash! mentioned.

I must now give a disclaimer and deeply apologize for the pedantry that's about to follow. The Mongols hardly touched the Roman Empire. Even if you count Byzantium, the Mongols messed with their neighbors in Persia and the Middle East, but only held parts of Anatolia for a few decades before it all came crashing down -- pretty far from humiliation or destruction. Genghis Khan was around in the early 13th century, while Western Rome fell in 476. I believe you're thinking of the Atilla and the Huns.

[Waterdeep Merch]

I agree, I'd love to see a Horse Totem Barbarian -- maybe taking stuff from Adventures in Middle-Earth, as GlenSmash! mentioned.

I must now give a disclaimer and deeply apologize for the pedantry that's about to follow. The Mongols hardly touched the Roman Empire. Even if you count Byzantium, the Mongols messed with their neighbors in Persia and the Middle East, but only held parts of Anatolia for a few decades before it all came crashing down -- pretty far from humiliation or destruction. Genghis Khan was around in the early 13th century, while Western Rome fell in 476. I believe you're thinking of the Atilla and the Huns.
You are completely correct, I confused the Huns with the Mongols. Though both were known for their horseback archery, the Huns were the terrors of the late Roman Empire, who's invasion proved a major catalyst for the dissolution of the empire.

[GlenSmash!]

You are completely correct, I confused the Huns with the Mongols. Though both were known for their horseback archery, the Huns were the terrors of the late Roman Empire, who's invasion proved a major catalyst for the dissolution of the empire.

Horseback Archery is awesome. It's like the Air Force of it's time.

[Civis Mundi]

Horseback Archery is awesome. It's like the Air Force of it's time.

An apt comparison for sure. For centuries, there was really nothing that could stand against it, except for a better version of itself. Especially combined with the "Parthian Shot," the origin of the "parting shot" -- again, I'd link if I could, but I recommend Historia Civilis's visualization of the Battle of Carrhae. It gives some perspective on just how devastating well-organized cavalry could be, and it's a great historical horror story.

Another great example of the power of cavalry would the Polish Winged Hussars. They were hugely effective centuries after they should've been obsolete, and they weren't even archers. Cavalry has a massive place in both history and media -- it's really a shame mounted combat isn't better supported. I'd really like to be able to build at least a mediocre mounted warrior without resorting to the Paladin's spells.