Sword & Shield Hexblade Warloc/Stone Sorcerer - Best spells to pick?

[Carlos Barreto]

Greetings,


Shillelagh is one of the most popular cantrips for the Pact of Tome Warlock, which allows you to make melee attacks with Charisma. IMHO, it's not a good choice because even if you also pick Green-Flame Blade/Booming Blade (to compensate the Shillelagh's lack of upscaling), Eldritch Blast just deals more damage.

Yet, I'm going to try the Unearthed Arcana: Stone Sorcerer (https://media.wizards.com/2017/dnd/downloads/26_UASorcererUA020617s.pdf). And just like the description of the class says:


Your link to earth magic grants you extraordinary resilience, and stone sorcerers have a natural affinity for combat. A steel blade feels like a natural extension of your body, and sorcerers with this origin have a knack for wielding both shields and weapons.


This Sorcerous Origin is basically a full caster with a little bit of swordplay. It feels like a waste to not take advantage of this feature.

Extra Proficiencies (Simple/Martial Weapons and shields) are more than welcome, but what really shines is the Stone's Durability. 13+Con for AC is great and allows you to totally dump both Strenght and Dexterity.

But what is the point of dumping Strenght and Dexterity if you need at least one of them to be effective in melee?

Well, the Hexblade (also from Unearthed Arcana) (https://media.wizards.com/2017/dnd/downloads/20170213_Wizrd_Wrlck_UAv2_i48nf.pdf) is the solution. It feels like Hexblade Warlock is the perfect match for the Stone Sorcerer: It gives Sorcerers the so desired Eldritch Blast (with Invocations) and allows you to use melee weapons with Charisma.

That said, I'm having a hard time to pick good spells. Of course, cantrips like Eldritch Blast, Booming Blade and Green-Flame Blade (which works best when you don't have Extra Attack), as well as Shield (Sorcerer) and Hex (Warlock) are obviously must-have options. I'm also strongly considering Ice Knife as a 1st level AoE Sorcerer spell (which I can trade later for Shatter and finally Fireball). But I'm not sure about what spells to choose, both for the Warlock part and the Sorcerer part.

Are the Smite spells really worthy?
Is Charm Person a good option as a Warlock spell, since it's also available to Sorcerers?
Is Armor of Agathys worthy to pick with just 2-3 level Warlock dip (therefore, it can only be casted as a 1st or 2nd level)?
What other spells do you recommend for a blaster Sorcerer with a 2-3 Warlock dip?


Spells

Lvl 1 - : Shield, Thunderwave. Cantrips (4): Green-Flame Blade, Booming Blade, Prestidigitation, Minor Illusion
Lvl 2 - [Warlock 1]: Hex, Armor of Agathys. Cantrips (2): Eldritch Blast, Toll the Dead¹
Lvl 3 - [Warlock 2]: Hellish Rebuke
Lvl 4 - : Wrathful Smite
Lvl 5 - [Sorcerer 3]: Alter Self; [S]Thunderwave Shatter
Lvl 6 - [Sorcerer 4]: Misty Step. Cantrips (5th): Mage Hand
Lvl 7 - [Sorcerer 5]: Counterspell; [S]Shatter Fireball
Lvl 8 - : Lightning Bolt
Lvl 9 - [Sorcerer 7]: Banishment
Lvl 11 - [Sorcerer 9]: Animate Objects
Lvl 12 - [Sorcerer 10]: Cone of Cold. Cantrips (6th): ???
Lvl 13 - [Sorcerer 11]: Disintegrate
Lvl 14 - [Sorcerer 12]: Chain Lightning
Lvl 15 - [Sorcerer 13]: Reverse Gravity
Lvl 19 - [Sorcerer 17]: Meteor Swarm; [S]??? Wish


¹ - For those who doesn't know yet, Toll the Dead is a new cantrip in the Unearthed Arcana: Starter Spells (http://media.wizards.com/2017/dnd/downloads/UA-Starter-Spells.pdf). It may look as a waste to pick this cantrip once you have the best damage cantrip of the game (Eldritch Blast), specially when it's buffed with 2 great invocations specially designed for that cantrip (Agonizing Blast and Repelling Blast). But sometimes the target has a high AC and/or half cover (+2 AC)/three-quarters cover (+5 AC) and/or you have disadvantage to attack him/her. Whenever one or more of these conditions are there, I find useful to have this cantrip as an alternative.

By looking at the spell selection above, It's easy to see that I'm using the Warlock levels not only to increase the overall number of spells know, but also to add new options to the spell arsenal by adding spells that a Sorcerer normally would not have access.

[miburo]

Yup, Sorcerer/Hexblade is a great combo. Start with Sorc 1 for Con save, go Hexblade 1 or 2 (1 lets you keep the final ASI at Sor 19, 2 gives you an extra pact slot and some nifty invocations), then go Sorc the rest of the way. You can Eldritch Blast from afar, then teleport in and smack someone using the Stone Aegis.

The tough part about the smite smells is that they require Concentration, which you will usually want to keep a buff up. Honestly I think you are better off using the extra spell slots to fuel quicken spell for an extra Booming Blade or Greenflame Blade to stack up the damage, particularly at higher levels when a good smite would cost you a 4th or 5th level slot--that's sorc points for 2-3 quicken spells right there.

Charm person is always a great utility option to have--with your high Charisma you can be a decent face. Another viable option is to take Mask of Many Faces as your second invocation and the Friends cantrip--they can't be angry at you if you change your face to someone else =P

Good blaster spells--Can't go wrong with Fireball (or Lightning Bolt if that's your preference). Scorching Ray also does good damage. Chromatic Orb gives you some variety at lower levels. At higher levels, Cone of Cold, Disintegrate, etc. Pretty standard sorc stuff.

[lunaticfringe]

You can cast Warlock spells using your Sorcerer Slots & vice versa unless that has been homebrewed at your table.

Hellish Rebuke? Reaction Damage from range, yeehaw.

[Talionis]

Armor of Agathys can be cast out of Sorcerer spell slots on a multiple class character. There are whole threads on AoA it's great for melee combat if you cast it out of other slots and if you can get resistances like Stone Skin up at the same time to keep the AoA up. But if you don't dedicate resources to being able to reduce damage it's not worth the action economy or spell slot. It's awesome when you can get a Cleric to cast Warding Bond

[Byke]

Currently running a Shadow Sorc / Hex Blade (6/2) and he is a ton of fun.

My only recommendation is to get Sorc 3 first then 2 Lock. EB doesn't really come online until 5th and meta magic & 2nd level spells are better earlier on.

Spells:
Cantrips: Green Flame Blade (DM ruled it's Twinnnable or else go Booming Blade) , Firebolt, Mending, Prestidigitation, Eldritch Blast (W), Mage Hand (W), Minor Illusion

4/1st (Sorc) // 2/1st (War)
Shield, Hex (W), Armor of Agyth (W), Hellish Rebuke (W), Absorb Element (Boon/Quest extra spell known)

3/2nd (Sorc)
Misty Step, Mirror Image, Hold Person

3/ 3rd (Sorc)
Fireball, Haste, Counter Spell

Edit added my spell list

[Chunkosaurus]

Stone Sorcerer relies heavily on using the SCAG cantrips and coupling that with quickening blasting spells. Once you get ot higher levels use your level one slots to quicken more and then blast with your big spells.

[Carlos Barreto]

Thanks for the feedback, guys.


Yup, Sorcerer/Hexblade is a great combo. Start with Sorc 1 for Con save, go Hexblade 1 or 2 (1 lets you keep the final ASI at Sor 19, 2 gives you an extra pact slot and some nifty invocations), then go Sorc the rest of the way. You can Eldritch Blast from afar, then teleport in and smack someone using the Stone Aegis.

That's exactly what I made.
Stone Sorcerer 1 for Con save, than Hexblade Warlock 2 for Eldritch Blast + 2 invocations: Agonizing Blast as an obvious, must-have option and Repelling Blast, which is awesome because works with any size and there's no save. And as if it wasn't good enough, it works multiple times if you use multiple blasts.


The tough part about the smite smells is that they require Concentration, which you will usually want to keep a buff up. Honestly I think you are better off using the extra spell slots to fuel quicken spell for an extra Booming Blade or Greenflame Blade to stack up the damage, particularly at higher levels when a good smite would cost you a 4th or 5th level slot--that's sorc points for 2-3 quicken spells right there.

Yes, I was aware of the Concentration issue, but I still wanted to hear some opinions

Yet, I still think Smite Spells are a little bit tricky to use, but can do wonders if you use it right. Most people just look to the damage (including myself), but the real usefulness of these spells are their side effect, which can be great if used properly.

That said, I've been reading some opinions about the Smite Spells and I find this one worth considering...

Wrathful Smite (Lvl 1): 1d6 psychic + Wisdom saving throw or become frightened. Frightened is just nasty, imposing disadvantage on attack rolls and ability checks. The enemy needs to waste an action to end the spell, and they have to make a Wisdom check (NOT a save) to end it, which means that they don't add any proficiency bonus to the roll and they will roll with disadvantage because of the frightened effect. It seems a strong debuff to a single target using just a lvl 1 spell.

A mere first level spell that targets a generally not so strong ability (Wisdom), imposes disadvantage to all attack rolls and forces the target to waste his turn to try to break the spell while rolling a check with disadvantage. It doesn't sounds that bad.

That's not something you would use all the time, but against some brute and stupid targets, maybe it's a good strategy.


Good blaster spells--Can't go wrong with Fireball (or Lightning Bolt if that's your preference). Scorching Ray also does good damage. Chromatic Orb gives you some variety at lower levels. At higher levels, Cone of Cold, Disintegrate, etc. Pretty standard sorc stuff.

My last character had Fireball and Lightning Bolt. Fireball is easier to hit multiple targets, but sometimes Lightning Bolt is all you need. And since the main goal is to be a blaster, another AoE blasting spell in the arsenal is always welcome.

Cone of Cold, Disintegrate, Chain Lightning and Meteor Swarm are amazing spells as well.
Blight seems to be another good addition to single-target damage.
Incendiary Cloud may be another good option if the game goes that far.

I wish I could like Ice Storm... but it does less damage than a Fireball and I'm not sure that the difficult terrain for 1 round, the different damage types and the extra range is a good pay-off.


You can cast Warlock spells using your Sorcerer Slots & vice versa unless that has been homebrewed at your table.

Hellish Rebuke? Reaction Damage from range, yeehaw.

Thanks for reminding me about that. That really makes Armor of Agathys a cool spell.

Well... I'm not sure about Hellish Rebuke. Yes, it's a nice option to cause damage as a reation, but as a Sorcerer, I use to try to avoid damage by casting Shield spell, which also uses a reaction. So in the case of a Sorlock, I'm not convinced it's worth using.

I may be wrong and I'm open to different perspectives.


Armor of Agathys can be cast out of Sorcerer spell slots on a multiple class character. There are whole threads on AoA it's great for melee combat if you cast it out of other slots and if you can get resistances like Stone Skin up at the same time to keep the AoA up. But if you don't dedicate resources to being able to reduce damage it's not worth the action economy or spell slot. It's awesome when you can get a Cleric to cast Warding Bond

Stone Skin would be a thematic spell for a Stone Sorcerer. It would also boosts Armor of Agathys durability when there's no magical/elemental damage involved.

But it's a concentration spell. And what's worse: it costs 100 gp each time you cast it.

So for me it's a big No-No, specially because this character is mean to be a blaster; it's the guy who stays behind the frontline, zapping creatures to death with Eldritch Blast and AoE spells. The Sword and Shield is there just because A) It's usefull when enemies comes at close-combat and B) It's fits so greatly in the Stone Sorcerer/Hexblade Warlock that it feels wrong not to make use of it.


My only recommendation is to get Sorc 3 first then 2 Lock. EB doesn't really come online until 5th and meta magic & 2nd level spells are better earlier on.

While I don't disagree with your logic, I followed this route: Sorcerer 1 -> Warlock 2 -> Sorcerer X

Since Eldritch Blast is the "normal attack", I really wanted to pump it up as soon as I could. I really enjoy Agonizing Blast + Repelling Blast (push a creature of any size with no save? I love it!).


Cantrips: Green Flame Blade (DM ruled it's Twinnnable or else go Booming Blade) , Firebolt, Mending, Prestidigitation, Eldritch Blast (W), Mage Hand (W), Minor Illusion

I picked almost the same cantrips, with the exception of Mending and Firebolt.
Eldritch Blast is the only ranged attack cantrip you really need. The only circunstantes where Firebolt would outshine Eldritch Blast are when you are facing enemies vulnerable to fire and/or when you hit a critical. Since this is so circunstancial, I preffer to stick with Eldritch Blast as my bread-and-butter ranged attack cantrip.


4/1st (Sorc) // 2/1st (War)
Shield, Hex (W), Armor of Agyth (W), Hellish Rebuke (W), Absorb Element (Boon/Quest extra spell known)

Hellish Rebuke competes with Shield (damage avoidance) for the Reaction.
I'm afraid I don't quite understand how you got Absorb Element. Would you mind to explain?


/2nd (Sorc)
Misty Step, Mirror Image, Hold Person

I'm not sure if Mirror Image is a good choice when you have AC 18+ (which is my case with Stone's Durability + a shield)


Stone Sorcerer relies heavily on using the SCAG cantrips and coupling that with quickening blasting spells. Once you get ot higher levels use your level one slots to quicken more and then blast with your big spells.

The SCAG cantrips, being used with the Cast a Spell action, are great in the following cases:

A) When you don't have an Extra Attack (which is the case for many spellcasters, including this one)
B) When you do have an Extra Attack, but you can use Quickened Spell (which is the case for Sorcerers) to make another melee weapon attack as a bonus action.

As far as I can see, Eldritch Blast (d10 per ray) does more damage than SCAG cantrips (d8 weapon+d8 fire/thunder damage after level 5), specially when combined with Hex. The only exception may be on those special circunstances where these cantrips deals the secondary damage (when the enemy moves or when there's another enemy close to the original target).

That said, I see Eldritch Blast as the main source of cantrip damage while the SCAG cantrips are a sort of backup. Unless, of course, you really want to go melee often, which is suboptimal, but cool.

[Byke]

While I don't disagree with your logic, I followed this route: Sorcerer 1 -> Warlock 2 -> Sorcerer X

Since Eldritch Blast is the "normal attack", I really wanted to pump it up as soon as I could. I really enjoy Agonizing Blast + Repelling Blast (push a creature of any size with no save? I love it!).


I picked almost the same cantrips, with the exception of Mending and Firebolt.
Eldritch Blast is the only ranged attack cantrip you really need. The only circunstantes where Firebolt would outshine Eldritch Blast are when you are facing enemies vulnerable to fire and/or when you hit a critical. Since this is so circunstancial, I prefer to stick with Eldritch Blast as my bread-and-butter ranged attack cantrip.


Hellish Rebuke competes with Shield (damage avoidance) for the Reaction.
I'm afraid I don't quite understand how you got Absorb Element. Would you mind to explain?



I'm not sure if Mirror Image is a good choice when you have AC 18+ (which is my case with Stone's Durability + a shield)





Firebolt - I went 3 Sorcerer first so needed an attack spell. IF I had gone 1 sorc / 2 Warlock I would have skipped it
Absorb Element - was learned via a DM sidequest. But it should be on the Sorcerer spell list by default.
Hellish Rebuke - Was chosen before Hexblade came out, (DM allowed me to retcon Hex). It still a decent spell, Wrathful may be better....but I hate that it's conc.
Mirror Image is one of the best non-conc damage mitigation spells you can get. Try it....seriously.

[Sir cryosin]

Thanks for the feedback, guys.



That's exactly what I made.
Stone Sorcerer 1 for Con save, than Hexblade Warlock 2 for Eldritch Blast + 2 invocations: Agonizing Blast as an obvious, must-have option and Repelling Blast, which is awesome because works with any size and there's no save. And as if it wasn't good enough, it works multiple times if you use multiple blasts.



Yes, I was aware of the Concentration issue, but I still wanted to hear some opinions

Yet, I still think Smite Spells are a little bit tricky to use, but can do wonders if you use it right. Most people just look to the damage (including myself), but the real usefulness of these spells are their side effect, which can be great if used properly.

That said, I've been reading some opinions about the Smite Spells and I find this one worth considering...

Wrathful Smite (Lvl 1): 1d6 psychic + Wisdom saving throw or become frightened. Frightened is just nasty, imposing disadvantage on attack rolls and ability checks. The enemy needs to waste an action to end the spell, and they have to make a Wisdom check (NOT a save) to end it, which means that they don't add any proficiency bonus to the roll and they will roll with disadvantage because of the frightened effect. It seems a strong debuff to a single target using just a lvl 1 spell.

A mere first level spell that targets a generally not so strong ability (Wisdom), imposes disadvantage to all attack rolls and forces the target to waste his turn to try to break the spell while rolling a check with disadvantage. It doesn't sounds that bad.

That's not something you would use all the time, but against some brute and stupid targets, maybe it's a good strategy.



My last character had Fireball and Lightning Bolt. Fireball is easier to hit multiple targets, but sometimes Lightning Bolt is all you need. And since the main goal is to be a blaster, another AoE blasting spell in the arsenal is always welcome.

Cone of Cold, Disintegrate, Chain Lightning and Meteor Swarm are amazing spells as well.
Blight seems to be another good addition to single-target damage.
Incendiary Cloud may be another good option if the game goes that far.

I wish I could like Ice Storm... but it does less damage than a Fireball and I'm not sure that the difficult terrain for 1 round, the different damage types and the extra range is a good pay-off.



Thanks for reminding me about that. That really makes Armor of Agathys a cool spell.

Well... I'm not sure about Hellish Rebuke. Yes, it's a nice option to cause damage as a reation, but as a Sorcerer, I use to try to avoid damage by casting Shield spell, which also uses a reaction. So in the case of a Sorlock, I'm not convinced it's worth using.

I may be wrong and I'm open to different perspectives.



Stone Skin would be a thematic spell for a Stone Sorcerer. It would also boosts Armor of Agathys durability when there's no magical/elemental damage involved.

But it's a concentration spell. And what's worse: it costs 100 gp each time you cast it.

So for me it's a big No-No, specially because this character is mean to be a blaster; it's the guy who stays behind the frontline, zapping creatures to death with Eldritch Blast and AoE spells. The Sword and Shield is there just because A) It's usefull when enemies comes at close-combat and B) It's fits so greatly in the Stone Sorcerer/Hexblade Warlock that it feels wrong not to make use of it.



While I don't disagree with your logic, I followed this route: Sorcerer 1 -> Warlock 2 -> Sorcerer X

Since Eldritch Blast is the "normal attack", I really wanted to pump it up as soon as I could. I really enjoy Agonizing Blast + Repelling Blast (push a creature of any size with no save? I love it!).



I picked almost the same cantrips, with the exception of Mending and Firebolt.
Eldritch Blast is the only ranged attack cantrip you really need. The only circunstantes where Firebolt would outshine Eldritch Blast are when you are facing enemies vulnerable to fire and/or when you hit a critical. Since this is so circunstancial, I preffer to stick with Eldritch Blast as my bread-and-butter ranged attack cantrip.



Hellish Rebuke competes with Shield (damage avoidance) for the Reaction.
I'm afraid I don't quite understand how you got Absorb Element. Would you mind to explain?



I'm not sure if Mirror Image is a good choice when you have AC 18+ (which is my case with Stone's Durability + a shield)



The SCAG cantrips, being used with the Cast a Spell action, are great in the following cases:

A) When you don't have an Extra Attack (which is the case for many spellcasters, including this one)
B) When you do have an Extra Attack, but you can use Quickened Spell (which is the case for Sorcerers) to make another melee weapon attack as a bonus action.

As far as I can see, Eldritch Blast (d10 per ray) does more damage than SCAG cantrips (d8 weapon+d8 fire/thunder damage after level 5), specially when combined with Hex. The only exception may be on those special circunstances where these cantrips deals the secondary damage (when the enemy moves or when there's another enemy close to the original target).

That said, I see Eldritch Blast as the main source of cantrip damage while the SCAG cantrips are a sort of backup. Unless, of course, you really want to go melee often, which is suboptimal, but cool.

Your building melee caster but your going to stay back and blast. Wtf if you stay in the back and do nothing but blasting your not using stone Sorcerer abilities.

[Carlos Barreto]

Absorb Element - was learned via a DM sidequest. But it should be on the Sorcerer spell list by default.

Indeed it should. It's a shame that it's not there.


Hellish Rebuke - Was chosen before Hexblade came out, (DM allowed me to retcon Hex). It still a decent spell, Wrathful may be better....but I hate that it's conc.

It's a great option against brutes.


Mirror Image is one of the best non-conc damage mitigation spells you can get. Try it....seriously.

I don't think it's that great when you have a high AC and a low Dex, which is my case.
The main problem with this spell is that the enemies's attacks are going to hit (and destroy) the images, even when the attack would not have hit yourself.


Each time a creature targets you with an attack during the spell’s duration, roll a d20 to determine whether the attack instead targets one of your duplicates.

If the spell was written as "Each time a creature hits you with an attack...", it would be worthy for low Dex/high AC characters.


Your building melee caster but your going to stay back and blast. Wtf if you stay in the back and do nothing but blasting your not using stone Sorcerer abilities.

I'll use Stone Sorcerer abilities. I'm using Stone's Durability all the time, so I can dump both Str and Dex. And I would gladly use Stone Aegis and Stone's Edge.

As I said, the character is meant to be a blaster with some swordplay. The reason is because Eldritch Blast does more damage than Green-Flame Blade and Booming Blade. And it does from a safety place. Eventually some enemies may come to close-combat. And that's the moment to combine the longsword and magic.

On the other hand, reading again the Stone Aegis ability, I think I'll melee more often when that ability is triggered.

[lunaticfringe]

Hellish Rebuke is for when you take damage from a Save. Shield does Jack when you get AoE'd.

[Byke]

I



I don't think it's that great when you have a high AC and a low Dex, which is my case.
The main problem with this spell is that the enemies's attacks are going to hit (and destroy) the images, even when the attack would not have hit yourself.


Each time a creature targets you with an attack during the spell’s duration, roll a d20 to determine whether the attack instead targets one of your duplicates.

If the spell was written as "Each time a creature hits you with an attack...", it would be worthy for low Dex/high AC characters.



With + 1 BP and + 1 Shield & 14 dex I'm running a 20 AC and I still use it. It's a non-conc dam mitigation spell that can waste up to 3 attacks/actions from the enemy. Their low AC doesn't matter, you have removed 3 enemies actions without having to maintain concentration or use up your reaction for the round, you win in action economy . It has value...you just need to see it in action to appreciate it...of course bad RNG can make the spell seem bad as well

[Aaron Underhand]

Might like to consider the Mobile feat - pairs well with Booming Blade... when they do finally get through to you in the back line....

[Carlos Barreto]

Hellish Rebuke is for when you take damage from a Save. Shield does Jack when you get AoE'd.

It's a good point! Added to Spell list!


With + 1 BP and + 1 Shield & 14 dex I'm running a 20 AC and I still use it. It's a non-conc dam mitigation spell that can waste up to 3 attacks/actions from the enemy. Their low AC doesn't matter, you have removed 3 enemies actions without having to maintain concentration or use up your reaction for the round, you win in action economy . It has value...you just need to see it in action to appreciate it...of course bad RNG can make the spell seem bad as well

Thinking about it, it's a great spell to deal against critical hits. And the fact that it doesn't require Concentration is great. My only problem with this spell is that you waste the images with attacks that would not hit you anyway. That's why I'm kind of resistant to pick it, but I'll look further about this spell.


Might like to consider the Mobile feat - pairs well with Booming Blade... when they do finally get through to you in the back line....

In fact it pairs well with Booming Blade.

But as a Variant Human, my first feat was War Caster, which is a must for a Sword & Shield spellcaster and gives awesome bonus like advantage on Concentration checks and Booming Blade (or maybe even a Disintegrate) as an AoO.

After that, there're only 4 ASIs/feats left. Considering that this multiclass only requires Charisma and Constitution, I think the best thing is to raise these stats to 20, giving you great chance to hit and damage with both melee and Eldritch Blasts, as well as a high AC and HP.

From my experience, Mobile is amazing for Monks because they have a lot of attacks (therefore, enabling the disengage-like ability against multiple enemies) and it further improves his already high speed.

[Carlos Barreto]

Edited the original post by adding my current spell list as well as future additions (in gray). Please feel free to contribute with new ideas and insights.

[Byke]

LB and FB is overkill.....choose your favorite and stick with just one...Counterspell, Haste or Hypnotic Pattern will give you more mileage and utility,

**EDIT 1*** Also scorching ray is meh.... if all 3 rays hit you are doing 6d6 = 21 vs EB 2d10 + 8 = 19
**EDIT 2 *** way to many blasting spells in your line up.

There are other ways of way of doing dam. IE 4th level - Polymorph - twin this on you or two other party members and watch the Giant Apes/T-Rex shred through the enemies. Has many other uses other than damage.

4th Level Banishment or Twin Banishment and you can take two enemies out the entire fight.

5th level - Animate object will do more sustained damage then CoC.

6th - Never liked disintegrate, unless your campaign world has lots of WoF. The save for no damage is terrible.

7th - Reverse Gravity an excellent control spell.

[Carlos Barreto]

LB and FB is overkill.....choose your favorite and stick with just one...Counterspell, Haste or Hypnotic Pattern will give you more mileage and utility

My last character (a Sorcadin with 2 fighter levels) have both Fireball and Lightning Bolt. I'm totally aware that Fireball is much easier to hit multiple targets than Lightning Bolt. Yet, there were some circunstances where Lightning Bolt was the right spell for the moment. I really enjoy both spells and since I love to blast, I use to take both.

Yet you have a point. I took your advise... partially. I would pick Counterspell and trade Shatter for Fireball at Sorcerer 5, picking Lightning Bolt at next level (Sorcerer 6).

Haste is an amazing spell, but since I'm not a front-line (melee is my secondary role), I don't think I will receive too much benefit as a ranged blaster. Even with my previous Sorcadin (and he was melee-oriented), I had great success meleeing with Blur/Greater Invisibility, which boosted my defense hugely.

I didn't choose Hypnotic Patterns with my Sorcadin because it requires Concentration, therefore competing with my beloved Blur/Greater Invisibility. But now that I don't need to much to use these spells, I might consider to take it.


Also scorching ray is meh.... if all 3 rays hit you are doing 6d6 = 21 vs EB 2d10 + 8 = 19

Scorching Ray is good when combined with Hex: 3d6 x3 = 9d6 (avg. 31,5)
At level 11 (actually level 12), Eldritch Blast would shoot 3 rays (3d10+15, +3d6 with Hex), making Scorching Ray obsolete, so I would trade it for Chain Lightning.

[Byke]

Haste is an amazing spell, but since I'm not a front-line (melee is my secondary role), I don't think I will receive too much benefit as a ranged blaster. Even with my previous Sorcadin (and he was melee-oriented), I had great success meleeing with Blur/Greater Invisibility, which boosted my defense hugely.


Scorching Ray is good when combined with Hex: 3d6 x3 = 9d6 (avg. 31,5)
At level 11 (actually level 12), Eldritch Blast would shoot 3 rays (3d10+15, +3d6 with Hex), making Scorching Ray obsolete, so I would trade it for Chain Lightning.

Haste - Aside from giving you 2AC and Adv on dex saves, if twinned it will increase the DPS of a melee/frontline by 25 or 33 or 50% depending on the class

I never included Hex but 2d10 + 2d6 + 8 = 26 for a cantrip...no slot required. Use that 2nd level slot for escape, more metamagic, or a higher level spell. The return on investment for using Scorching Ray vs EB is minimal.

[Carlos Barreto]

**EDIT 2 *** way to many blasting spells in your line up.

Yes, I know. This is a matter of flavor: I enjoy the idea of commanding the elemental forces, so I can use the fire, the ice and the lightning as weapons.

However, it's not just a matter of flavor alone, as each of these blasting spells has different areas. It's also a good way to deal with elemental resistances/immunities.


There are other ways of way of doing dam. IE 4th level - Polymorph - twin this on you or two other party members and watch the Giant Apes/T-Rex shred through the enemies. Has many other uses other than damage.

Yes, I know it's a good spell. But since I'm not the only caster in the group, I'll try to convince the Wizard to choose it.


4th Level Banishment or Twin Banishment and you can take two enemies out the entire fight.

5th level - Animate object will do more sustained damage then CoC.

6th - Never liked disintegrate, unless your campaign world has lots of WoF. The save for no damage is terrible.

7th - Reverse Gravity an excellent control spell.

Thanks for the suggestions. I added them!
I remember seeing the Wizard of my previous group using Animate Object and it was pretty intense. I didn't used that spell with my Sorcadin because of Greater Invisibility was better for my Great Weapon Master + Smite combo, but now I think it's a good opportunity to use it.

About Disintegrate... It's all or nothing. It's like they transfered the half-damage portion of the spell to the full damage portion. It's still the most massive single-target damage spell of the game, so I like to have it as part of the arsenal. It's also important to remember that by the time I have access to this spell, the character will have Charisma 20 (+5). With Proficiency Bonus at +5 (Character level 13), that's DC 18, which is not so light.


Haste - Aside from giving you 2AC and Adv on dex saves, if twinned it will increase the DPS of a melee/frontline by 25 or 33 or 50% depending on the class

That's true, indeed.
But personally, I preffer to use my Concentration to boost my own damage.


I never included Hex but 2d10 + 2d6 + 8 = 26 for a cantrip...no slot required. Use that 2nd level slot for escape, more metamagic, or a higher level spell. The return on investment for using Scorching Ray vs EB is minimal.

I was thinking about that, but I was kind of lazy to do the math. You're right.
In that case, I'm picking Alter Self for infiltration purpose.

Yes, I know Warlocks has Mask of Many Faces, allowing Alter Self at will. But since I'll only have two invocations, I decided to use them to boost my standard attack, Eldritch Blast.

[Byke]

At the end of the day it's a matter of flavor, style and what make you happy :) I'm just listing the stuff I use and providing suggestions based on my Sorc play :)

[Fach]

I am a fan of Hold Person for any PC that can cast it and plans to do some melee fighting. Paralyzed is a powerful debuff, and there aren't many ways to apply it.

[Carlos Barreto]

At the end of the day it's a matter of flavor, style and what make you happy :) I'm just listing the stuff I use and providing suggestions based on my Sorc play :)

That's true. I enjoy blasting spells and I think that Sorcerers with a level 2-3 Warlock dip does that decently.
I'm aware that there're some spells that trivialize some encounters without dealing a single point of damage, so I want to try a mix of blasting spells and those of that kind.

Yet, as you can seen, I adopted many of your suggestions into the spell list, so thank you for your feedback.


I am a fan of Hold Person for any PC that can cast it and plans to do some melee fighting. Paralyzed is a powerful debuff, and there aren't many ways to apply it..

Well, Hold Person is a great spell and I really like it. My only concern is that I already have some concentration spells, so I'm still unsure if it's wise to pick it.

[EspyGrrl]

I picked almost the same cantrips, with the exception of Mending and Firebolt.
Eldritch Blast is the only ranged attack cantrip you really need. The only circunstantes where Firebolt would outshine Eldritch Blast are when you are facing enemies vulnerable to fire and/or when you hit a critical. Since this is so circunstancial, I preffer to stick with Eldritch Blast as my bread-and-butter ranged attack cantrip.


As far as I can see, Eldritch Blast (d10 per ray) does more damage than SCAG cantrips (d8 weapon+d8 fire/thunder damage after level 5), specially when combined with Hex. The only exception may be on those special circunstances where these cantrips deals the secondary damage (when the enemy moves or when there's another enemy close to the original target).

That said, I see Eldritch Blast as the main source of cantrip damage while the SCAG cantrips are a sort of backup. Unless, of course, you really want to go melee often, which is suboptimal, but cool.

Having a different cantrip such as Firebolt actually is a good thing if you ever need to attack an inanimate object (Eldritch Blast has been proven to only affect creatures1, not say, firing at a rope to make a gate crash down.)

And you are right, EB is a very nice damage cantrip, though Booming Blade makes for an amazing AoO (using Warcaster, which I saw you took) as the enemy has already declared that they are indeed moving so it triggers the extra Thunder damage right away


1: Source: twitter .com/mikemearls/status/621080844166283264
(sorry about breaking the link, I sadly don't have over 10 posts yet so it won't let me post links)