3.0/3.5 Hardest Adventure Modules

[ColorBlindNinja]

What are the hardest adventure modules in 3.0/3.5?

I've heard people say that the updated Tomb of Horrors isn't as lethal as the original, but is it still tough?

I'm interested in making a list of the hardest modules, mostly because I enjoy challenging content.

I'll put suggestions that the Playground offers in a spoiler tag in the OP and update it accordingly.

Be sure to mention what makes that particular module tough, and don't hesitate to share any grisly stories about how hapless parties of players met their doom.

Thanks!


- Tomb of Horrors
- Expedition to Castle Ravenloft
- World's Largest Dungeon
- Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil
- City of the Spider Queen
- Cormyr: Tearing of the Weave
- White Plume Mountain
- Vecna Lives
- Expedition to the Barrier Peaks
- Shadowdale: The Scouring of the Land
- Anauroch: Empire of Shade
- Expedition to the Demonweb Pits
- Test of the Demonwebs

[Jormengand]

The tomb of horrors remains lethal; it can kill an entire party for deigning to attempt to enter it with powerful traps that might deal more damage than some of them have hit points.

[ColorBlindNinja]

The tomb of horrors remains lethal; it can kill an entire party for deigning to attempt to enter it with powerful traps that might deal more damage than some of them have hit points.

Good to hear, I'll add it the list; thanks for the suggestion.

Edit: Is a TPK likely if you were to try to run it?

[Jormengand]

Good to hear, I'll add it the list; thanks for the suggestion.

Edit: Is a TPK likely if you were to try to run it?

Yes, with most groups. I'd imagine quite a few wouldn't even make it in the real door before dying.

[ColorBlindNinja]

Yes, with most groups. I'd imagine quite a few wouldn't even make it in the real door before dying.

Interesting, I'll keep that in mind.

Edit: I've heard Savage Tide is tough, is that true?

[Yael]

I'm considering Expedition to Castle Ravenloft.

My reasoning being the following.For the most part of the adventure, Strahd, the final boss,
tends to roam around the PCs and attack them randomly, the PCs must be aware of danger at absolutely all times because random encounters during daylight or nightime may occur against his servants (especially during the Strahd's Dinasty secondary objective, as vampires resist sunlight), and even if they are not that optimized, buf fluffed instead, the fact that there's a chance Strahd himself will show up outside
the castle and attack the PCs is there.

Once they reach the castle, they are around AECL 8-9, so they have it easier inside the walls, but the fact that Strahd appears in 1/10 of all the rooms is astonishingly high, being this chance plus the absolute one (dictated by the Fortunes of Ravenloft). If the PCs have no way of producing their own magic items, they are screwed in terms of variety, as they have no access to magic item shops or basically any kind of store except for the Vistany or the one in Barovia, but it has +50% increase in all costs, so it is cheaper to produce your own items,
then again, if the PCs have no way, they must use whatever they find useful (if anything) within the encounters they face.

I understand that a capable party, I mean one consisting of the classic archetypes should have no problems (Rogue, Fighter, Cleric and Wizard), but for the most part (and including taint shenanigans) Strahd will target the most threatening PC in order to join him/her into his ranks, and it is specified in the book that he will dominate and control PCs, so there's that.

That's my point, I may be just mediocre at DMing or as a player, but even then, the module places the PCs in peril even when they find time to rest.

Also, Vampire Killer~ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btgi3TPL3AE)

[ColorBlindNinja]

I'm considering Expedition to Castle Ravenloft.

I've heard that one is tough.


My reasoning being the following.For the most part of the adventure, Strahd, the final boss,
tends to roam around the PCs and attack them randomly, the PCs must be aware of danger at absolutely all times because random encounters during daylight or nightime may occur against his servants (especially during the Strahd's Dinasty secondary objective, as vampires resist sunlight), and even if they are not that optimized, buf fluffed instead, the fact that there's a chance Strahd himself will show up outside
the castle and attack the PCs is there.

Once they reach the castle, they are around AECL 8-9, so they have it easier inside the walls, but the fact that Strahd appears in 1/10 of all the rooms is astonishingly high, being this chance plus the absolute one (dictated by the Fortunes of Ravenloft). If the PCs have no way of producing their own magic items, they are screwed in terms of variety, as they have no access to magic item shops or basically any kind of store except for the Vistany or the one in Barovia, but it has +50% increase in all costs, so it is cheaper to produce your own items,
then again, if the PCs have no way, they must use whatever they find useful (if anything) within the encounters they face.

I understand that a capable party, I mean one consisting of the classic archetypes should have no problems (Rogue, Fighter, Cleric and Wizard), but for the most part (and including taint shenanigans) Strahd will target the most threatening PC in order to join him/her into his ranks, and it is specified in the book that he will dominate and control PCs, so there's that.

That's my point, I may be just mediocre at DMing or as a player, but even then, the module places the PCs in peril even when they find time to rest.

:smalleek: That's just cruel! Strahd is a 15th level spellcaster, if I recall!


Also, Vampire Killer~ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btgi3TPL3AE)

Castlevania FTW! I especially like the Symphony of the Night version. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5CRoCqSUR4)

Edit: I'll add Expedition to Castle Ravenloft to the list.

[Yael]

:smalleek: That's just cruel! Strahd is a 15th level spellcaster, if I recall, too!

He's a 10th level specialized wizard in necromancy, plus its enhanced vampire levels.

[ColorBlindNinja]

He's a 10th level specialized wizard in necromancy, plus its enhanced vampire levels.

Not quite as bad as I thought, but still. The module is intended for, what, 6th level PCs?

[Yael]

Not quite as bad as I thought, but still. The module is intended for, what, 6th level PCs?

Yep, 6th level PCs.

[ColorBlindNinja]

Yep, 6th level PCs.

I thought as much.

I wouldn't be surprise if more than few groups got TPK'd from that.

[Florian]

Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil has some extremely lethal encounters.

[Mike Miller]

If run as a campaign instead of individual modules, the world's Largest dungeon is very difficult. Resources are hard to find and probably not designed well for the party. As a whole it may not be a great campaign, but with DM intervention it can be fun. There are plenty of surprise-the-party-high-challenge encounters scattered throughout. For some reason the Tarrasque is in there too... In a section geared towards 14-16 level PCs, IIRC.

[ColorBlindNinja]

Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil has some extremely lethal encounters.

What in particular makes it deadly?


If run as a campaign instead of individual modules, the world's Largest dungeon is very difficult. Resources are hard to find and probably not designed well for the party. As a whole it may not be a great campaign, but with DM intervention it can be fun. There are plenty of surprise-the-party-high-challenge encounters scattered throughout. For some reason the Tarrasque is in there too... In a section geared towards 14-16 level PCs, IIRC.

:smallconfused: ... I know the Tarrasque is pretty weak for its CR, but I could easily see it TPK an unoptimized group.

I'll add the World's Largest Dungeon to the list.

[Florian]

What in particular makes it deadly?

I think one of my most favorite encounters showcase it: To proceed, you have to climb down a shift and you will get attacked by a Grell - you know, flying, 8 attacks, save or stun? Pretty deadly when you´re 80 ft up and lvl 4...

[ColorBlindNinja]

I think one of my most favorite encounters showcase it: To proceed, you have to climb down a shift and you will get attacked by a Grell - you know, flying, 8 attacks, save or stun? Pretty deadly when you´re 80 ft up and lvl 4...

Interesting, any other highlights?

Edit: Yikes, Grell look pretty tough for CR 3 encounter.

Edit 2: I added the Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil to the list.

[Togo]

Expedition to the Barrier Peaks is surprisingly tough, if only because it's intended for parties of 8-12. The hoard monsters come with grenades, extradimensional effects are surpressed throughout, the whole dungeon is timed, and the treasure has a high chance of hurting you quite badly.

[Starbuck_II]

City of the Spider Queen only because it doesn't give enough XP for leveling up for Expected level.

Cormyr: Tearing of the Weave: due to using sight based mechanics.
To quote another, "It's aimed at 4th level but uses so many combinations of "shadowy illumination" and various other forms of miss chance and NPC's with "Hide in Plain Sight" that it was an absolute horror show'


White Plume Mountain

Vecna Lives: old Adventure where you play NPCs before the game starts (a cutscene) and he kills you. Then the Pcs find out how to stop Vecna. The whole adventure he ambushes you.

[ColorBlindNinja]

City of the Spider Queen only because it doesn't give enough XP for leveling up for Expected level.

Cormyr: Tearing of the Weave: due to using sight based mechanics.
To quote another, "It's aimed at 4th level but uses so many combinations of "shadowy illumination" and various other forms of miss chance and NPC's with "Hide in Plain Sight" that it was an absolute horror show'


White Plume Mountain

Vecna Lives: old Adventure where you play NPCs before the game starts (a cutscene) and he kills you. Then the Pcs find out how to stop Vecna. The whole adventure he ambushes you.

Neat, I'll add them to the list.

[Florian]

Cormyr: Tearing of the Weave: due to using sight based mechanics.
To quote another, "It's aimed at 4th level but uses so many combinations of "shadowy illumination" and various other forms of miss chance and NPC's with "Hide in Plain Sight" that it was an absolute horror show'

Hah, funny that. I was a player on this and it was by pure accident that I decided to test-run a Shadowcaster. Rest was easy.

[ColorBlindNinja]

Hah, funny that. I was a player on this and it was by pure accident that I decided to test-run a Shadowcaster. Rest was easy.

I really want to like Shadowcasters, but their crunch is just so bad! :smallfrown:

It's overly complicated, and not very effective in practice.

[Beheld]

There are different types of hard. For example, Red Hand has lots of big huge fights with ambushes and enemies that can kill you pretty good. It's kind of hard in that sense. Tomb of Horrors is "hard" in a "nothing makes sense there is no rhyme or reason to any of this, also make a random save vs death for having failed to spit over your left shoulder on the Tuesday" kind of way. WLD because it doesn't give you treasure and says to give you less XP and then throws huge death encounters at you that break it's own rules for nerfs you are supposed to give the PCs. (Never let your PCs cast web, also we have a Wizard with Web prepared and in his spellbook they could run into at level 1.)

You probably don't actually want that second one or third one.

[ColorBlindNinja]

There are different types of hard. For example, Red Hand has lots of big huge fights with ambushes and enemies that can kill you pretty good. It's kind of hard in that sense. Tomb of Horrors is "hard" in a "nothing makes sense there is no rhyme or reason to any of this, also make a random save vs death for having failed to spit over your left shoulder on the Tuesday" kind of way. WLD because it doesn't give you treasure and says to give you less XP and then throws huge death encounters at you that break it's own rules for nerfs you are supposed to give the PCs. (Never let your PCs cast web, also we have a Wizard with Web prepared and in his spellbook they could run into at level 1.)

You probably don't actually want that second one or third one.

It's not uncommon for difficulty to result from poor design. :smallsigh:

With that said, I'm just looking for hard modules, being well designed is secondary, as far as I'm concerned.

[Afgncaap5]

This is definitely a YMMV thing, I think. White Plume Mountain never struck me as hard, but I could see it giving certain mindsets challenges.

[animewatcha]

I am looking at Tomb of Horrors right now. I am at page 10 and beyond the point of 'WTF!!!'

[Florian]

It's not uncommon for difficulty to result from poor design.

You just don´t understand the basic design principle behind most of the old-school modules.
In short, you were not supposed to find the solution in the game mechanics, like at all. The challenged party was the actual player, not the character.

[emeraldstreak]

Is there Rappan Atuk for 3.0/3.5? Or just PF?

[Florian]

Is there Rappan Atuk for 3.0/3.5? Or just PF?

It started as 3.0, was updated to 3.5 (RA Reloaded), and now moved on to PF and SW.

[Afgncaap5]

You know, I don't think an official 3.5 version of it exists, but my DM did a 3.5 version of Castle Amber once, and it was *rough*. I don't know if "hard" is the right word for it, but... it took some time to get through.

(I think he'd found something that someone had homebrewed using Pathfinder rules, maybe?)

[Beheld]

It started as 3.0, was updated to 3.5 (RA Reloaded), and now moved on to PF and SW.

Has anyone actually run or played the 3.5 one? Dungeons like that vary from "OLD SKOOL" that breaks when players start doing literally anything, and is just supposed to be a series of encounters to "Old School" that are like actual environments first and player interaction can work, and it's kind of a lot of money to shell out when I have no idea if it's worth anything at all.

[Florian]

Has anyone actually run or played the 3.5 one? Dungeons like that vary from "OLD SKOOL" that breaks when players start doing literally anything, and is just supposed to be a series of encounters to "Old School" that are like actual environments first and player interaction can work, and it's kind of a lot of money to shell out when I have no idea if it's worth anything at all.

Played the original 3.0 version and found it ok, but not great. Necromancer Games had better modules, like the Tomb of Abysthor or Vault of Latin Karr.

[Fizban]

World's Largest Dungeon. . . eh, I'm not sure I'd call it hard so much as extremely dependent on the party (of course so is every module). Being locked in is one part, which is exacerbated by the wide differences in early and late 3.5 character design, but there's also vastly branching paths. The first branch will send you into either shadows or massed goblins, both of which are lethal or chump-change depending on your party. The next branch after shadows is either respawning wandering uber-bossed or a maze with teleport traps. The goblin route can lead to a series of chambers that once entered will basically no-save murder any PCs not of good alignment. But then there's a also wide band of areas that are nothing but mid-level classed NPCs (mostly fighters) who are barely a threat. There are three endpoints: a path out of the dungeon through frost giants, stopping the bad thing from escaping the necropolis, and stopping someone from using the tarrasque for bad thing. The second two are probably pretty lethal (haven't read the boss fight for the giants), but only if you're using a party that's actually been stuck in the dungeon and is playing characters roughly in-line with what the (core-only) dungeon can put out. Megadungeons tend to bring out the "practical" optimizers who will steamroll anything unless you optimize it against them-ironically the endurance characters that most people think of are some of the safest bets, as long as you actually follow the module's statement that clearing everything for xp shouldn't be allowed.



Cormyr: Tearing of the Weave: due to using sight based mechanics.
To quote another, "It's aimed at 4th level but uses so many combinations of "shadowy illumination" and various other forms of miss chance and NPC's with "Hide in Plain Sight" that it was an absolute horror show'
I haven't read that one, but I'll add the next one in the series; Shadowdale: The Scouring of the Land. The second encounter is against a skeletal dragon that would normally be CR 20, but thanks to the idiot who wrote the template and the guy who used it here, it's supposedly only CR 10. Oh, and it also gets a perfect DM fiat ambush thanks to hiding behind an illusion, even though the spell it's hiding behind does not work that way at all. It also has a god straight tell you to go there instead of actually storytelling, then leaves you with two routes: go to the enemy stronghold (which is where you're supposed to go, and has a boss fight including multiple dread wraiths), or go after a lich in its lair. After the lich fight you have to fight a similarly high level enemy cleric while in a null-magic zone, except the cleric gets to cast spells.

(Of course like many adventures, aside from those boss fights the rest of the area is populated with classed NPCs who aren't actually worth their given CRs. This one annoys me extra because unlike Red Hand of Doom's 5,000 strong army with given high level leaders against 5th level PCs, this is supposedly a 500 strong army against 8th level PCs who's high level leaders don't show up until plot: even a core-only party shouldn't have trouble thinking of ways to wreck them without trying very hard.)

The third in the series, Anauroch: Empire of Shade, may also qualify. It opens with a weird "test" from a respawning archmage that certainly shows off the breadth of the core spell list, in combination with fiat plot powers. Eventually you have to fight your way through a dungeon with a bunch of phaerim (high level sorcerer aberrations), which may be in another null-magic zone where they're allowed to cast but you aren't. Or not.

You see, the thread between the three adventures is the Tearing of the Weave, except the people writing the effects don't actually know the rules for dead magic and antimagic and the shadow weave and how any of them interact: they're all slightly different things, and this is yet another different thing which is described differently in different places. It's clearly meant to be "you suck, they rule," so that's easy to figure out, but then in the third adventure it isn't even clear when the party is supposed to be hosed.


Anyone familiar with Expedition to the Demonweb Pits? Most of the middle seems to be up in the air, but the final battle seems pretty ridiculous if you haven't jumped through the right hoops, but I haven't read most of it so I don't know if the hoops are properly shown to the players.

[Florian]

Anyone familiar with Expedition to the Demonweb Pits? Most of the middle seems to be up in the air, but the final battle seems pretty ridiculous if you haven't jumped through the right hoops, but I haven't read most of it so I don't know if the hoops are properly shown to the players.

Boring, especially the encounter format and design.

[DarkEternal]

The third in the series, Anauroch: Empire of Shade, may also qualify. It opens with a weird "test" from a respawning archmage that certainly shows off the breadth of the core spell list, in combination with fiat plot powers. Eventually you have to fight your way through a dungeon with a bunch of phaerim (high level sorcerer aberrations), which may be in another null-magic zone where they're allowed to cast but you aren't. Or not.

You see, the thread between the three adventures is the Tearing of the Weave, except the people writing the effects don't actually know the rules for dead magic and antimagic and the shadow weave and how any of them interact: they're all slightly different things, and this is yet another different thing which is described differently in different places. It's clearly meant to be "you suck, they rule," so that's easy to figure out, but then in the third adventure it isn't even clear when the party is supposed to be hosed.


I ran the second and the third one myself, and I remember it had some wonky parts. The skeleton dragon in a huge, colossal lake was one of them. Then the entire war camp in Myth Drannon, the artifact sword that only elves can use and so on. I liked the fluff for the most part of it, but some of the encounters...and then the last boss. I distinctly remember our fighter going against it and soloing it. All by himself. Wasn't even too hurt from the effort, and he was hardly optimised.

[Khedrac]

Anyone familiar with Expedition to the Demonweb Pits? Most of the middle seems to be up in the air, but the final battle seems pretty ridiculous if you haven't jumped through the right hoops, but I haven't read most of it so I don't know if the hoops are properly shown to the players.
I am running it at the moment and it is actually very frustrating.

Most of the encounteres are pretty easy, but several of them are unclear as to how they actually work. Then add in the encounter where the players are expected to fight, but opens with a demand for surrender that many parties will comply with - and there is absolutely no information on what happens if the PCs do surrender...
Most of the adventure hooks are there, but not necessarily obvious (and my party has been pretty good at ignoring blatant hints - too used to published railroads at guess - but I think they got everything they needed)
Just to add to the mainly easy encounteres a few are absolute pigs unless you have exactly the right party to steamroller them (check out Abyssal Giants and then look again at their CR - new monster from the module).
The penultimate room looks designed to kill any party that isn't stupid, or very careful in how they operate, but I haven't run it yet. The boss fight looks very hard, but we shall see. I think the chase out will depend on how depleted the party is after the boss fight.

[ColorBlindNinja]

Thanks for the responses, I'll add these modules to the list.

[Amphetryon]

+1 City of the Spider Queen, though part of the difficulty we had was due to DM rulings.

[Mike Miller]

World's Largest Dungeon. . . eh, I'm not sure I'd call it hard so much as extremely dependent on the party (of course so is every module).

In the first region alone there are dozens of traps that can kill at least one PC and they aren't traps the PCs will likely find, either. There is a fireball trap that can TPK easily in a place that could still have everyone at level one. There is an advanced cockatrice when the PCs will be about level 7 that has +17 to hit and FORT DC 20 to avoid petrification that should get a surprise round. A hellwasp swarm likely when the party is about levels 3 or 4. Plenty other examples I could give too.

[Beheld]

In the first region alone there are dozens of traps that can kill at least one PC and they aren't traps the PCs will likely find, either. There is a fireball trap that can TPK easily in a place that could still have everyone at level one. There is an advanced cockatrice when the PCs will be about level 7 that has +17 to hit and FORT DC 20 to avoid petrification that should get a surprise round. A hellwasp swarm likely when the party is about levels 3 or 4. Plenty other examples I could give too.

There's the part when you fight a level 3 wizard that casts web, and his 6 other kobold buddies, and their yeth hound. And also you might be level 1 when you run into them.

[Pugwampy]

I will say Test of the Demon Web . Not for its physical lethality but its psychological one .

Players are trapped with no escape route and toyed with . Plague of locusts keeps them from escaping

One cursed item easily found is a helm of opposite alignment . At the end they can choose to join the drow .....which says end of game they are transported to underdark and slowly tortured .
In my opinion up to that point the module is doing all it can to make em join the darkside .

Or they fight the boss monster Drider and their blocked exit unblocks and they are free but still thats 50/50 chance they will do so

[ksbsnowowl]

Anyone familiar with Expedition to the Demonweb Pits? Most of the middle seems to be up in the air, but the final battle seems pretty ridiculous if you haven't jumped through the right hoops, but I haven't read most of it so I don't know if the hoops are properly shown to the players.

I ran this one two years ago. The "hoops" are properly shown to the players. Most of them wanted to ignore the lines of a prophesy; the paladin's unswerving loyalty to the prophecy they'd been given (ie - the hoops) ensured their escape and survival. If the paladin hadn't been so adamant, the party may have found another way out, but they might have all died.


Boring, especially the encounter format and design.

I'm nearing the end of a 1st-20th level campaign, so in preparation for brainstorming the next campaign, I had my players fill out a short survey (favorite/least favorite part; favorite/least favorite complete module; etc). I've gotten three responses back, and two of them list Expedition to the Demonweb Pits as their favorite complete module. One even put in rankings for all the modules, scoring EttDwP the highest, at 9/10.

[Eldariel]

Boring, especially the encounter format and design.

Yeah, event-based progress makes for a stale world. The Cranium Rats are probably the hardest part but you don't even have to fight 'em unless you are dumb. The tower was a bit of a thing due to alignment but we outsourced that part.

We 2-manned the module with Dervish/UM though the Ultimate Magus/Nar Demonbinder could've easily soloed it. The Dervish was secondary to the Bound Glabrezu in the Demonweb Pits proper.

[Thalantyr]

The Skinsaw Murders, from Rise of the Runelords was pretty hard.

The final boss, a lamia matriarch, is ridiculous. The DM gave us 6-8 guards to take the blows. We should have died there otherwise.

[Fizban]

Fair enough, there are more gotchas than I remembered in early WLD.

[Khedrac]

The Skinsaw Murders, from Rise of the Runelords was pretty hard.

The final boss, a lamia matriarch, is ridiculous. The DM gave us 6-8 guards to take the blows. We should have died there otherwise.

Oddly enough we nearly walked that - if my character hadn't rolled a natural 1 on his save vs her item she wouldn't have gotten away... It was also nearly the opposite of an optimised party - duskblade, druid, beguiler (me) and a dragon shaman!
Come to think of it, I suspect the DM did deliberately spread the blows for the wisdom drain and it too a while afterwards to get everyone restored back up.