Players Refusing to Play

[Wampyr]

So today I ran my weekly game for a group of new players. There are three of them and generally we have a good time, but two of them have problems focusing on the game that became especially perturbing today.

The first, and less severe of the two, simply finds challenge infuriating. After one or two bad rolls this guy starts disrupting the game with complaints and he suggests running away to the party. No one ever goes for it, but occasionally he decides to go on his own. And he's a 4th level vengeance paladin. Today he was considering running from a giant scorpion. He was at about thirty HP and the scorpion was on eight. This player also clocks out whenever dialogue is opened, and today I found out that he had yet to pick a deity.

The second player is my problem player, the sorcerer. Not only does he ignore all events outside of combat, but he also lies to my face about it, and when he can't relay information that was given ten seconds earlier, he always says that he smoked too much weed the night before. He keeps his spell sheet on his lap top so he has it at the table but he is easily tempted to check out of the game and watch youtube. He also lacks a general sense of tactics, which normally I would be forgiving of in a new player, but it constantly causes him to go down even when I'm going easy on him. And of course his response is to blame another player, or more likely me. Today while fighting some drow (3 archers and 4 melee guys) he ran past the tank and climbed onto a table, directly in front of the 3 archers. Naturally, he was making death saves on the following round. He asked me, "Why do I keep dying? Why are you targeting me specifically?" I was dumbstruck. I explained to him that putting himself between archers and their targets was not a safe move, but things quickly escalated. After having this player yell at me in a rage that barely allowed him to form simple sentences I tried to continue the game but he was intent on pouting.

These two aren't normally so extreme, but their habits always put a damper on the game. If anyone has any suggestions as to how to deal with them that would be wonderful.

[Malifice]

Chat to them out of game (assuming they are your friends outside of the game).

Explain your grievances. Tell them no more computers at the table. Its on the character sheets, or it doesnt exist. Thats the rule.

Also start awarding inspiration and xp for heroics and bravery (and roleplaying) and not just combat. They'll start to engage more when they get rewarded for it. Award XP or other in game advantages for writing a backstory and engaging with the world.

Count down in combat - never give anyone more than 3 seconds to declare an action or else they take the dodge action and their turn ends. Be firm on this (but explain thats what is happening before you do it).

If that doesnt work (or if you dont hang with them outside of the game) uninvite them. Sack them from your game. Give them the flick. Show them the door. Tell them to bugger off. Goodbye and good luck.

Dont play with whiny argumentative players.

There are always more players.

[CountWolfgang]

I'd suggest a simple and direct approach. Sit down with everyone, then ask all of them what they expect from gaming sessions. Like specifically what they want more/less of, or what will cause them to pay attention. Tell them (specifically the two) what you expect from them as players. I've found simply asking someone not to do something is the best way. They may not realize they are as bad as they are. Last time I played I had to ask the dm not to use his phone. I don't think he realized he was using it so much till I pointed it out. On the sorcerer not paying attention out of combat, try asking what he wants to do. Like before leaving a town make sure everyone has done everything they wanted to. I'm not sure to tell you about asking why you are specifically targeting him. I'd personally be a smart ass, but that may cause more issue with them. Maybe say if you get right up in enemy ranks, of course enemies will attack them. If things happen to get worst, all I can say is kick them out, then find other players.

Edit: I started writing this before the first poster, so I happened to suggest some of the same stuff. Either way both would be great to read and take advice from.

[Illven]

and today I found out that he had yet to pick a deity.

That and the scorpion was at 8 hp.... Are those necessarily issues? The scorpion did you described it as injured, close to death etc. Otherwise, how is the player supposed to know the scorpion's at 8 hp.

And depending on the setting, not picking a deity is fine by me. Paladins are a. Not required to. And b. In Faerun or Forgotten realms, it's completely believable that a good character is turned off by the protection racket that is the wall of the faithless. (I can never remember which one of those two have it.)

And if it's dragonlance. I'd argue that you can't be good, and worship the mass murdering semi genocidal ***** that they call gods in that setting.

[scalyfreak]

Is it at all feasible to suggest to the player with the squishy sorcerer that he might be happier playing as a melee class? If he wants to charge into fights head on, maybe simply giving him the means to do so without dying every time, will make the player happier?

[Spore]

Today he was considering running from a giant scorpion.

Either live another day or die trying? Eh, just because it's a Paladin doesn't mean he HAS to stay in combat. Aside from that he is your typical "RPG as combat simulator" type. If you are fine with that, then he can stay. If you want to involve him, maybe threaten the party via dialogue. Give him a situation where he has to react but cannot solve the problem with violence: "A guy looking just like you has killed the mayor's daughter. You're coming with us, Sir Distraction the Third." said the guardsman with 10 guards surrounding your table.

If he completely ignore that, it's time to ask him if he wants roleplaying because you do not offer a mere combat simulation. But I don't want to insult you but maybe your story segments are boring?


but he is easily tempted to check out of the game and watch youtube

Seesm he is just not interested in playing anymore. I had this in my last (online) session. I am changing my character now because my old one is boring. Maybe his character is boring. Maybe the game. Ask him. If it is the game, tell him you are not mad but he should not waste his free time with things he doesn't like.

[zeek0]

Some of the player attitude is unmendable. But I have some tips.

-Don't allow laptops at the table. He can write it on a paper.
-Sometimes when my players do something obviously stupid, I guide them instead of punish them. This I because, often enough, they aren't as good at common sense or tactical know-how as their characters. Asking for a wisdom check with a low DC is one way to make it feel good in the game.
-It sounds like the paladin player is a coward, not the character. When the player wants to flee, you can ask for a low DC Wisdom check. If he really should just keep fighting, tell him that it seems he has the upper hand, or that the enemy looks on their last legs.
-Paladins don't need a deity RAW. But if his character concept isn't put together, you can ask players to write a few paragraphs of backstory.

Good luck!

[Grod_The_Giant]

I'd suggest a simple and direct approach. Sit down with everyone, then ask all of them what they expect from gaming sessions. Like specifically what they want more/less of, or what will cause them to pay attention. Tell them (specifically the two) what you expect from them as players. I've found simply asking someone not to do something is the best way. They may not realize they are as bad as they are. Last time I played I had to ask the dm not to use his phone. I don't think he realized he was using it so much till I pointed it out. On the sorcerer not paying attention out of combat, try asking what he wants to do. Like before leaving a town make sure everyone has done everything they wanted to. I'm not sure to tell you about asking why you are specifically targeting him. I'd personally be a smart ass, but that may cause more issue with them. Maybe say if you get right up in enemy ranks, of course enemies will attack them. If things happen to get worst, all I can say is kick them out, then find other players.
This is all excellent advice. A little communication goes a long way.


Count down in combat - never give anyone more than 3 seconds to declare an action or else they take the dodge action and their turn ends. Be firm on this (but explain thats what is happening before you do it).
Maybe don't do this, though. It doesn't sound like you're having a problem with length or speed of combat-- if anything, it seems like you need players to not follow their immediate instinct, and instead think a little more and play more tactically. Putting a (ridiculously brutal) countdown clock on their turns will probably do more harm than good.

[Millstone85]

The first, and less severe of the two, simply finds challenge infuriating. After one or two bad rolls this guy starts disrupting the game with complaints and he suggests running away to the party."Challenge"? There is only luck here. At least, that's how the player might see it. Not everyone enjoys games of dice, and this being such a major aspect of the D&D experience is something the player might have to make his peace with.


No one ever goes for it, but occasionally he decides to go on his own. And he's a 4th level vengeance paladin.Still an apprentice adventurer, then.


That and the scorpion was at 8 hp.... Are those necessarily issues? The scorpion did you described it as injured, close to death etc. Otherwise, how is the player supposed to know the scorpion's at 8 hp.Also this.


And depending on the setting, not picking a deity is fine by me. Paladins are a. Not required to. And b. In Faerun or Forgotten realms, it's completely believable that a good character is turned off by the protection racket that is the wall of the faithless. (I can never remember which one of those two have it.)Those two are the same thing. More precisely, Faerûn is a continent on Toril, the world of Forgotten Realms.

Alas, this is a setting where not putting up with jealous gods means you don't get to play a divine spellcaster, not even those the PHB describes as being empowered by nature spirits or lofty tenets.

[KorvinStarmast]

Tell them no more computers at the table. Its on the character sheets, or it doesnt exist. Thats the rule.
Yep.

Also start awarding inspiration and xp for heroics and bravery (and roleplaying) and not just combat. They'll start to engage more when they get rewarded for it.
Yep

Count down in combat - never give anyone more than 3 seconds to declare an action or else they take the dodge action and their turn ends. Be firm on this (but explain thats what is happening before you do it).
Yep in spades. People stay engaged if they have to make a decision, and combat goes faster so they get to make more decisions.

If that doesnt work (or if you dont hang with them outside of the game) uninvite them. Sack them from your game. Give them the flick. Show them the door. Tell them to bugger off. Goodbye and good luck. Dont play with whiny argumentative players. Yep.

Life's too short to hang around with whiny people, energy sponges, and oxygen thieves.

Bad gaming is not better than no gaming.

[Specter]

Kick 'em out. Don't let your work as a DM be disrespected.

[xroads]

Count down in combat - never give anyone more than 3 seconds to declare an action or else they take the dodge action and their turn ends. Be firm on this (but explain thats what is happening before you do it).


I'd recommend using a small 30 sec or 1 min hourglass timer that you can pick up at game shops. It'll provide ample time to make a decision and is a very visible reminder to the players.

[Mellack]

Count down in combat - never give anyone more than 3 seconds to declare an action or else they take the dodge action and their turn ends. Be firm on this (but explain thats what is happening before you do it).




Nope, nope, no. One of the described issues is the players making bad tactical decisions. Forcing them to decide quicker will make that even worse. It would also give them a valid reason to blame the DM for their character's failure. Most players are not professional soldiers trained in small scale fighting like their characters are. Give them time to make competent decisions.

[Waterdeep Merch]

Ick. My response to the second player would be something along the lines of "I'm kicking you out. But so we're clear, it's not because I hate how you play the game. It's because I hate who you are as a person."

To the first, "Every time you whine about things getting hard, the enemies regain 10 HP and get a +2 to all attacks and damage. Cumulative."

[GlenSmash!]

I say you need to have a conversation about what you all consider to be fun, and see if you come to a common ground.

I'd say "as a DM it's no fun for me to present you with scenarios that you just steamroll over I will instead present you with challenges that can be overcome" and "DMing is a lot of work. It's no fun for me to put this much work into it to just have you watching youtube instead of engaging in the game"

Be prepared however, because you will find some things about yourself that are making in less fun for your players too, but if you listen and understand their concerns too you'll find the game gets a lot better all around.

[Darth Ultron]

Go ahead and talk to the players about it. I don't recommend it, and don't think it will work, but you can at least try.

After that, you need to decide if you really want to game with the two problem players. You might consider kicking them out of the game or, if you must, simply give up being DM and/or leave this group.

Now, if you want to stay with the group, and keep the problem players.....then you have to change things.

Some are easy: No electronics at the table. No arguing or compiling at the table.

Some are hard: If someone does open their lap top, what will you do? anything more then ''nothing'' will be hard (I'd tell the player to leave forever...)

Some are tricky: In a general sense, if your ''stuck'' with a bad player or two, simply ignore like 99% of what they do and don't let them disrupt the game.

Let the cowardly player have his character run away. It's great to say ''ok, your character runs off to hide in the woods and you won't be playing the game for the next half hour''.

The player clocks out when talking starts. Let them, does not matter to you.

The player ignores anything that is not combat. Great, well then you can just ignore that character and player too.

No sense of tactics. Eh, so he is like most players. If you don't want to take the step of killing the character, Just toss his character out of combat. Spells and poisons and all sorts ''save or can't play'' of things can ''get rid of a character for an encounter. So have the drow archers shoot ''spider tangelbag arrows'' or something so his ''poor'' character is glued to a wall for like an hour.

Otherwise, just have the character have no impact on the combat. It even works great to give them an ''extra'' foe or monster just for them to ''encounter''. Like put a ''easy drow thug'', just for him to fight, off in a corner.

So the game rolls on, the problem players are ''as happy as they can be'', and everyone has fun.