3.5 to 5e conversion

[ZhanStrider]

Hey all. My DM Is swapping our campaign from 3.5 to 5e. We're looking for ways to alter the base classes so we can fit our Flavors from Prestige classes into the change.

Any suggestions for: Sand Shaper (sorcerer) as a sorcerous origin, paladin of Freedom as a Paladin Oath, or any suggestion for Artificer ?

Thanks

[Ninja_Prawn]

Have you looked at the Unearthed Arcana? There's an artificer in there, I believe.

In terms of homebrew, my associates at Mage Hand Press have a sphinx bloodline (https://store.magehandpress.com/products/waste-update) (though it's not available for free, and not especially sand-shape-y) and a craftsman (http://mfov.magehandpress.com/2017/04/craftsman-redux.html) base class, but... no freedom paladin, oddly enough. Lots of other paladins, but none that focus on individual liberty. Maybe we'll have to put something together for that.

[Waazraath]

Indeed, there is a UA artificer. Paladin of freedom could be a refluffed ancients or vengeance oath. Iirc, the most importants features of the freedom pally were smite, lay on hands and the horsy, that are all in the base class, so it's mainly fluff. Maybe swap out a few spells, if you find the 3.5 spells really iconic for the freedom pally.

Sand shaper is really difficult. The main boon in 3.5 was the huge amount of extra spells known. The sorcerer in 5e has even fewer known than the one in 3.x, so adding a lot of spells would become a major balance issue. Not to mention that a lot of the sand shaper extra spells are from the same splat book (again, iirc). Option: give the sorcerer 1 extra spell of each level, with a sand/desert theme, and use tuned down subclass features based on another sorcerer subclass.

[JackPhoenix]

For artificer, I suggest this (http://www.eberron5e.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Class-Artificer-Full-Class-v3.4.pdf) instead of the UA version. Closer to the original (including remake of Eberron hommunculi and some spells). Worked well in my game.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Sand Shaper: Might be the trickiest... Earth Sorcerer exists in a Unearthed Arcana article (http://media.wizards.com/2017/dnd/downloads/26_UASorcererUA020617s.pdf), but it's both incredibly gish-focused and kinda unbalanced (they can pick Paladin smite-spells, and get 13+Con AC, bonus health, DR, reaction-attacks, and bonus spell damage... all with no use limits). This might need a new option. Say...

1st: Shape Sand-- as the Conjurer's Minor Creation, but must be made of sand you provide. They're visibly sandy, but they don't fade when damaged and you can make up to 3 at once.
6th: Sand Form-- Once/Short Rest, you can turn into a Grey Ooze for 10 minutes (Concentration). You don't get its Corrode Metal feature, and you look like a pile of sand instead of a pool of oil, but you can keep your own hit points and cast spells, provided they don't have a material component.
14th: Improved Sand Shape-- as the spell Find Familiar, but the list of options is the same as the 3.5 class', with the listed benefits (the Eagle can share senses out to a mile; the Jackel uses dog stats, but has Advantage on Stealth; and the Hound and Scorpion can attack). All add your Proficiency bonus to attack rolls, damage rolls, ability checks and saves. Useable at will.
18th: Desert Shroud-- as the 3.5 feature.


Paladin of Freedom: Meh, 5e Paladins can be any alignment. Just pick an Oath you like the look of. Devotion is probably fine-- the powers are classic Paladin, even if the fluff isn't.

Artificer: There is an official Artificer class in an Unearthed Arcana (http://media.wizards.com/2016/dnd/downloads/1_UA_Artificer_20170109.pdf). It's... eh? You get a few free magic items, 5th level casting with the ability to infuse spells into items to be activated later, a construct buddy (that starts too strong and then gets weak), and either a decently-damaging gun or a painfully-limited set of alchemical item type attacks. You might prefer the Wizard subclass from a much earlier UA (https://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/UA_Eberron_v1.pdf)-- that's a normal wizard, but they can burn spell slots to make potions or enchant items for 8 hours, burn Arcane Recovery to make scrolls, and eventually craft magic items.

[lunaticfringe]

Desert Land Druid with a Custom Sandform ability instead of Wildshape. Give up a Cantrip for Elements Monk Elemental Attunement. Customize the bonus spells to your liking, use Elemental Evil Player's Companion for sure.

If you wanted to be Arcane I would probably start with Sea Sorcerer from the Sorcerer UA as a base. Change the swim speed to Earthglide in Sand. Tweak the Curses but Forced Movement is fine as is so you just need 2 more. See about grabbing Conjure Animals from the Druid list, refluff them as Sand Creature thingies.

[toapat]

Hey all. My DM Is swapping our campaign from 3.5 to 5e. We're looking for ways to alter the base classes so we can fit our Flavors from Prestige classes into the change.

Any suggestions for: Sand Shaper (sorcerer) as a sorcerous origin, paladin of Freedom as a Paladin Oath, or any suggestion for Artificer ?

Thanks

Sand Shaper is kinda the Stone Sorcerer (https://media.wizards.com/2017/dnd/downloads/26_UASorcererUA020617s.pdf)

Paladin of Freedom is either Oath of Devotion if you want the same mechanics, or Oath of the Ancients if you want the "Im doing whats right"

Artificer is not really an option, either theres the Artificer Wizard (https://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/UA_Eberron_v1.pdf) which is ok but because this is 5E sucks at crafting anyway, or the Artificer class (https://media.wizards.com/2016/dnd/downloads/1_UA_Artificer_20170109.pdf) which needs a complete rework on its magic item progression, the conversion of the pet into a full subclass, and some work beyond that

[Grod_The_Giant]

Sand Shaper is kinda the Stone Sorcerer (https://media.wizards.com/2017/dnd/downloads/26_UASorcererUA020617s.pdf)
Despite the name, not even a little bit. Stone Sorcerer has absolutely no elementalist-type features. It's all about being a goofy-strong gish. (Drop Stone Aegis on yourself, cast a Smite spell as a bonus action, swing with a melee cantrip, tank the return hit, then teleport and hit them again for bonus damage.)

[lunaticfringe]

Stone Sorcerer isn't even close to Sand Shaper, they get a bunch of Bonus spells, Ooze Form, and Minionmancy iirc.

[Puh Laden]

Paladin is the easiest: pick devotion and switch out the tenets for something that prioritizes freedom over law.

As for the others, it might literally be easier to make new characters and if that's the case the paladin might as well too.

But if that's not desired, then assuming no homebrewing, I second the desert druid refluff, but sea sorcerer UA (https://media.wizards.com/2017/dnd/downloads/26_UASorcererUA020617s.pdf) also probably works.

As for artificer, either the UA (or a DMsGuild variant) or a transmuter wizard. It might be worth adapting the crafting-related mechanics from Plane-shift Kaladesh (https://media.wizards.com/2017/downloads/magic/Plane-Shift_Kaladesh.pdf) also.

[lperkins2]

Despite the name, not even a little bit. Stone Sorcerer has absolutely no elementalist-type features. It's all about being a goofy-strong gish. (Drop Stone Aegis on yourself, cast a Smite spell as a bonus action, swing with a melee cantrip, tank the return hit, then teleport and hit them again for bonus damage.)

Stone Aegis cannot target yourself, it is only one ally you can see within 60 feet. At level 18 it increases to 3 allies, but still not yourself.
The expanded spell list is nice, but you're more likely to want to use your BA for quickening booming blade to get a second attack off, since you never get multi attack from stone sorcery. The best feature is the AC, 13+CON, and shield proficiency. Of course, the draconic origin is 13+DEX. 13+CON is a bit better, just because having a high CON also gives you a few more HP per level, and the subclass gives +1 hp/level itself. If you take a half elf, so you can get 16 CHA and 16 CON, you'll start with AC 16 (+2 if you have a shield), and 1d6 + 4 HP per level. It's strong, but not nearly as amazing as people seem to think.

[Flashy]

Stone Aegis cannot target yourself, it is only one ally you can see within 60 feet.

It's pretty well established in 5e that you yourself always count as an ally you can see within range.

Among other things, this is the wording on basically every buff and healing spell in the game. Haste, healing word, polymorph, etc. all target a creature you can see in range without specifically calling out the fact that you can target yourself.

[lperkins2]

It's pretty well established in 5e that you yourself always count as an ally you can see within range.
Got a citation for that?


Among other things, this is the wording on basically every buff and healing spell in the game. Haste, healing word, polymorph, etc. all target a creature you can see in range without specifically calling out the fact that you can target yourself.

Haste: a willing creature that you can see within range
Healing Word: A creature of your choice
Polymorph: a creature with at least 1 hit point that you can see within range
Cure Wounds: A creature you touch

I can't find a single buff spell that specifies 'an allied creature', but sneak attack and pack tactics talk about allied creatures. If the caster counts as a creature allied to the caster, then the wolf should count as a creature allied to the wolf, letting it always use pack tactics.

[Naanomi]

I think Ancients works better for Freedom Paladin than Devotion

[Specter]

Paladin of Freedom is clearly Ancients Paladin. Sandshaper's closest match would be Stone Sorcerer.

[lperkins2]

Looking at the Sand Shaper class, there really isn't an equivalent in 5e. You could create a new archtype, but none of the existing ones, for any of the arcane classes, have any of the features. Stone sorcery is out, it has a slightly expanded spell list, but none of the sand control features. I don't think any of the wizard, bard, or warlock archtypes do any better, either.

[Flashy]

Got a citation for that?


If a spell targets a creature of your choice, you can choose yourself, unless the creature must be hostile or specifically a creature other than you. If you are in the area of effect of a spell you cast, you can target yourself.

Though I thought your argument was that the sticking point was the "targets a creature you can see within range" part rather than the "allied" part so tbh I actually do agree with you now.

[lperkins2]

Though I thought your argument was that the sticking point was the "targets a creature you can see within range" part rather than the "allied" part so tbh I actually do agree with you now.

Yeah, I realised after I posted where the confusion was. It'd be an easy mistake to make, and if a DM allowed you to use it on yourself it would be extremely powerful. Regardless, it's still good, you can drop it on the squishies and get back to them in a hurry if you get flanked, but it takes your reaction to do it, so you are at most getting one extra attack a round. Compare it to what other archtypes get at 6th level and it's pretty close to the middle of the pack. A fighter gets another feat, on top of getting multiattack the level before, moon druids get upgraded to CR2 beasts, life cleric goes to self-healing whenever using spells to heal friends.

You could argue that at 18th level you can use it on yourself, since it says 'you can choose up to 3 creatures', rather than '3 allied creatures', but as a level 18 feature that doesn't seem too terrible, remember the champion is gaining 5+CON hp a round when below half health at that level, and getting to reliably use your reaction to attack isn't actually that great (means you can't cast shield, and you can get a similar effect by fighting next to an ally with the sentinel feat, or from polearm master).

[toapat]

I think Ancients works better for Freedom Paladin than Devotion

devotion has all of the mechanics of 3.5 Paladin and the Freedom variant's aura Ancients paladin. Ancients is more like the Green knight with an actual moral code

[Ninja_Prawn]

Well, it took a few days, but I have written an actual, original Oath of Freedom (http://mfov.magehandpress.com/2017/07/oath-of-freedom.html), if anyone's still interested. :smallsmile: