Oh no, not another character help thread !!

[haplot]

I'm trying to do a var human wizard build, lvl 1 to start, but looking long term as to what feats etc to pick up later on / now.

Str 14, Dex 18 (was 17 with a +1 bonus from race), Con 16, Int 18, Wis 16 (again with the +1 coz of race), and Cha 15.

Went for the sage (wiz apprentice) background that comes with arcana and history proficiency. Other skill proficiencies are insight and investigation from class.

Personality: Theres nothing I like more than a good mystery

Ideal: The goal of a life of study is the betterment of oneself

Bond: I've been searching my whole life for the answer to a certain question.

Flaw: Most people scream and run when they see a demon. I stop and take notes on its anatomy

Question 1 becomes, what feat do I pick up for being a var human? Im oscellating (sp?) between Magic initiate (cleric) or warcaster.

Question 2 is what spells / cantrips do people suggest for being a wizard. I'm thinking of burning hands, detect magic, expeditious retreat, mage armor, magic missile, and rary of sickness for my level ones, and maybe acid splash, light and something else for my cantrips.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[rudy]

First off, jesus christ what stat generation system did you use?

War Caster < Resilient (Con), *unless* you plan to have both hands full most of the time (such as for a Sword and Board Eldritch Warrior).

With the god stats that you have, you should seriously consider grabbing something to give you weapon/armor proficiencies. For you, I would actually suggest a 1 level dip in Revised Ranger, if it's allowed. Advantage on initiative, favored enemy, extra skill, armor, etc. The bow will be better than your cantrips for a while.

[haplot]

As far as the stats go, I rolled them. I seem to have the luck with stat rolling, crap dice rolling for anything else important that relies on me getting party out of trouble :D

As for the dip idea, I can't see my GM going for variant ranger build that hasn't as yet been published in the phb but I will look up the revised ranger and ask him about it anyway. The worst he can say is no :D

I also not totally like the idea of multiclassing in 5e as I don't quite get how it works. Having said that though, yes having armor prof would probably help me.

Thank you for replying so quickly

[rudy]

As a warning, if a player came to me and told me he rolled those stats (unless you use something even better than 4d6 drop one?), then I would assume he was lying. Maybe you're not, but you're going to be telling your GM "I'm a liar" regardless by saying those are your rolled stats.

If I rolled them myself, I would stare at my hand incredulously for a few minutes, and then I would consider deliberately lowering one of them, just so that I would not be unfairly thought to be a liar.

Best 4d6 drop one stats I ever rolled were 12 13 14 14 15 17, and even then the GM said "If I hadn't known you for a long time, I would assume you were lying".

[haplot]

As it happens it was 4d6 dropping one. Did I fail terribly at mentioning that? I am sorry.

BTW, scenario we are going to be in requires a lot of combat

[KorvinStarmast]

First off, jesus christ what stat generation system did you use? Dice rolling. I'll make no further comment on someone's luck with dice. Seen some strange die rolls over the years.

Best 4d6 drop one stats I ever rolled were 12 13 14 14 15 17, and even then the GM said "If I hadn't known you for a long time, I would assume you were lying".I've rolled a little better than that recently using roll 20. It's in the chat log, so the DM can verify it. I think you are over reacting to someone else's luck with dice.

[jaappleton]

Maybe I missed it, but what school of magic were you going for? I highly recommend Divination for Portent. It's amazing.

For your Feat, pick either Warcaster or Lucky.

Cantrips, just make sure you grab Firebolt and Light (since you're Human). For spells, make sure you take Shield and Absorb Elements (from Elemental Evil), those will keep you alive, and Mage Armor. Magic Missile can't miss, so its guaranteed damage, which is great for low levels. Avoid any 'Touch' spells if you can, you've got a d6 hit dice, and at low levels you want to be as far from the action as you can.

[haplot]

My luck for dicerolling good rolls only seem to affect my stats. When the **** hits the fan so to speak in a life or TPK moment, my luck seems to go out the window :D So will probably on that note go for the Lucky feat to offset that.

Hadnt thought too much about school of magic, but divination does sound great along with the other spells you mentioned.

Thanks for replying

[jaappleton]

My luck for dicerolling good rolls only seem to affect my stats. When the **** hits the fan so to speak in a life or TPK moment, my luck seems to go out the window :D So will probably on that note go for the Lucky feat to offset that.

Hadnt thought too much about school of magic, but divination does sound great along with the other spells you mentioned.

Thanks for replying

Don't misinterpret.... Divination spells are boring and terrible.

The reason I recommend Divination is exclusive for the lv2 feature Portent.

It's THAT good.

Since you mentioned your terrible luck with dice rolling, it's even better. Combined with the Lucky feat, you can actually roleplay it as a Wizard who alters fate if you wanted to.

[Unoriginal]

Maybe take the Observant feat? Probably would be considered terrible for optimization, but if you like solving mysteries...

[Specter]

With these crazy stats, all you need to do is pump INT to 20 and then go crazy on feats. Start with War Caster, and later take some of these:

Alert
Lucky
Skilled
Ritual Caster
Tough

As for spells, the ones I see as mandatory for survival are Mage Armor and Misty Step, the rest is up to how you envision the character.

[rudy]

I think you are over reacting to someone else's luck with dice.

I'm not trying to be critical; it's a legitimate warning as to how such rolls can/will be perceived.

The odds of rolling what the OP did, or better, are 0.0000023258, or one in 430,000. So, not impossible I will grant. I'm just saying it does not look good, whether or not it is legit. If the OP remains unconcerned, then I will say nothing more *shrug*


Imagine ordering the stats from best to worst.

Odds of the best being an 18, using 4d6 drop one, is .0162, or a bit more than 1.5%.

Odds of the next being a 17 or better are 0.05787.

16 or better is .1304

15 or better (two of these) is .2315

14 or better is .355

.355 * .2315^2 * .1304 * 0.05787 * 0.0162

Using data from: http://prestonpoulter.com/2010/10/19/the-mathematics-behind-4d6-drop-the-lowest/



Also, I'd consider the Lucky feat, which is amazing for any build, especially one that has the flexibility you are going to have.

[DeTess]

With these crazy stats, all you need to do is pump INT to 20 and then go crazy on feats. Start with War Caster, and later take some of these:

Alert
Lucky
Skilled
Ritual Caster
Tough

Just out of curiosity, why would you want ritual caster one a wizard? You already have most of the really good rituals, and you can already cast them as rituals, so it seems like a bit of a waste to me. Am I overlooking something?

[rudy]

I should also add, since no one else has said, that I really don't think variant human is the best option for this build. If you really deeply want to be human, that's totally fine and cool. If you are doing it because you think it is "best" here, I would reconsider.

Your rolled stats are: 14 15 15 16 17 18

Consider a Forest Gnome. Starting stats could be: Str 14, Dex 18, Con 15, Int 20, Wis 16, Cha 15.

You would start out with the 20 int, which is better than any feat you could get for a wizard. At level 4, grab Resilient (Con). The goodies you're getting as a gnome are nothing to sneeze at either.

Or, consider a mountain dwarf. You could start with the 18 int, AND medium armor proficiency.

Str 18, Con 19, Dex 14, Int 18, Wis 15, Cha 18. 4th level & 8th Level: +2 Int & Resilient (Con).

[sir_argo]

The personality you described does not fit combat oriented feats. While I would normally recommend Resilient Con or Warcaster for any mage, I just don't think it fits for this character. You're not targeting DPR. So my suggestions are not what we normally call optimized. I'd select feats from this list:

Dungeon Delver
Keen Mind
Lucky
Magic Initiate
Observant

I agree with a prior poster to go School of Divination. You shouldn't ever multiclass... doesn't fit the personality.

(edit)

Forgot to mention that with the stats you rolled, last thing you need to do is optimize.

[Specter]

Just out of curiosity, why would you want ritual caster one a wizard? You already have most of the really good rituals, and you can already cast them as rituals, so it seems like a bit of a waste to me. Am I overlooking something?

Ritual Caster (Cleric/Druid) is way better than Magic Initiate (Cleric), I guess.

[Naanomi]

Drop the WIS Boost, move the +1 Racial to CON, use your feat for Resiliant: CON (and 18 CON with it). This is on the assumption that you can't move your stats around and they were rolled in order. If not then probably some better options to explore.

[haplot]

Apparently I am allowed to move stats around so all good there.

I don't neccessarily have to be human, the int 20 for being a gnome does sound kinda cool to be honest

Although having armor profs from being a dwarf is always good for a wizard. i take it that if i wear armor i have prof in, i can still cast spells?

[rudy]

Although having armor profs from being a dwarf is always good for a wizard. i take it that if i wear armor i have prof in, i can still cast spells?

Yes, that's correct.

[haplot]

Sweet cant fault it :D

Guess im gonna be changing race after all, to either gnome or dwarf

Thanks everyone

[Finger6842]

If you're stuck on Wizard, look at Transmutation, the stones are really strong. For race Half Elf with the Darkvision, Sleep immunity and Charm advantage plus 4 stat improvements is still one of the best races.
STR 15, DEX 17, CON 16, INT 18, WIS 15, CHA 14
Add Half Elf for
STR 15, DEX 18, CON 18, INT 18, WIS 16, CHA 16 if you will dip Priest
Or
STR 16, DEX 18, CON 18, INT 18, WIS 15, CHA 16 if you will dip Fighter

With stats like that I recommend you try Half Elf Lore Bard. Dip wizard 1 for ritual caster and a ton of additional spells, plus Rogue 1 for expertise and sneak attack or Warrior 1 for Plate, martial weapons, and a fighting style (only two levels total since you need 18 levels of Bard for Magical Secrets). Personally I would go Bard Fighter Wizard or if your DM allows variant Half Elves you can get longbow from there and armor/shield from Bard Priest Wizard.

Your skill proficiencies will be insane and you will have a ton of cantrips and spells. Your defense with plate armor, shield and shield spell will keep you upright. Plus with magical secrets you can still pick up 8 spells from any spell list AND with Jack of all Trades you will be the god of skill monkeys.

Start with:
STR 15, DEX 18, CON 17, INT 15, WIS 14, CHA 16
Add Half Elf for:
STR 15, DEX 18, CON 18, INT 16, WIS 14, CHA 18
You need 15 STR for Full plate if you take Fighter
18 is more than sufficient for almost any situation and by level 4 you will have 4 of them.
If you dip wizard then you can put the first ASI in INT though DEX or CHA would be my choice. It is important to note that magic items can also boost stats so maxing stats early is ill advised (campaign dependent).

There are a ton of builds that would benefit from these numbers but none more than Lore Bard. I wish you luck either way.

[haplot]

Hadn't really looked at the bard yet so i'm going to try to put one together based on what you've said.

Might not multiclass into any class though, as i havent also read through the rules for doing so yet. Im sure though that it should be easy to do.

Thanks for the input, its very much appreciated

[Finger6842]

Hadn't really looked at the bard yet so i'm going to try to put one together based on what you've said.

Might not multiclass into any class though, as i havent also read through the rules for doing so yet. Im sure though that it should be easy to do.

Thanks for the input, its very much appreciated

NP, happy to help. Note that it's important to decide on multiclass early. This will affect the spells you choose since many are shared between Bard Wizard and Priest. You won't want to duplicate any AND as all three are ritual casters you can likely scribe the common rituals from your list into the wizard book. Talk to the DM early so you know his/her feelings on it, some rule they are different spells and others say they are the same spell. Bards can swap out one spell per level which I rarely use but you could potentially add one Bard ritual to the wizard book every level, increasing total spells known in the early levels.

[haplot]

Even though you guys have come up with some awesome things, i might end up having to go cleric :S

The group im RPing with have gotten used to the idea I always seem to be the party main healer and are going with other styles of characters. One I think is going fighter type, second probably warlock and the third Im not sure on at present.

I dont mind being party main healer as i generally play it but i was kinda hoping for a campaign off so to speak.

Not having a healer is going to be a real bad idea due to amounts of combat thats to be expected in this campaign.

Going half elf, background hermit, tempus domain for the thunderstrike and for the profs

Str 18, dex 16, Con 16, int 15, wis 18, cha 16.

Cantrips: Light, sacred flame and Spare the dying

Personality: empathy for those that suffer (might end up putting some out of their misery not sure yet !!)

Ideal: Inquiry and curiosity are pillars of progress

Bond: Isolation gave me great insight into a great evil that only i can destroy

Flaw: Id risk too much to uncover a lost bit of knowledge

And yes i know im asking for the DM to lead me round by the nose by the above, hey, random dice rolls are strange that way, at least for me :D

[Merellis]

Honestly, you should go with a more ridiculous approach if they assume you're gonna always be the healer. Give them forms to fill out and premiums to pay to your church for healing services provided by your Deity. :P

[haplot]

Honestly, you should go with a more ridiculous approach if they assume you're gonna always be the healer. Give them forms to fill out and premiums to pay to your church for healing services provided by your Deity. :P

You know, thats tempting, sooooo very tempting :D

[Finger6842]

LOL, Bards can also heal pretty well :D

[haplot]

True, that they have, but I've created the cleric now, and dm wont let me change me class :S

[Sir cryosin]

As a warning, if a player came to me and told me he rolled those stats (unless you use something even better than 4d6 drop one?), then I would assume he was lying. Maybe you're not, but you're going to be telling your GM "I'm a liar" regardless by saying those are your rolled stats.

If I rolled them myself, I would stare at my hand incredulously for a few minutes, and then I would consider deliberately lowering one of them, just so that I would not be unfairly thought to be a liar.

Best 4d6 drop one stats I ever rolled were 12 13 14 14 15 17, and even then the GM said "If I hadn't known you for a long time, I would assume you were lying".

That rude to tell him that. My group use 4d6 drop lowest. And the best stats I rolled was ( mind you in front of DM and group) was 17,17,17,17,13,13. Just because someone has good rolled stats don't mean they cheated. Also his DM could be find if he rolled all 18's like my DM. Don't accuse him of lying and cheating and telling him to change his stats. But instead give him advice relevant to what his questions were.


14 15 15 16 17 18
To OP if your looking at cleric my favorite build is
V-human feat healer
Class Arcana domain cleric
Two cantrips to pick green flame blade, firebolt
Str:17+1 human
Dex:15+1 human
Con:16
Wis:18
Int:15
Cha:14
This allows me to fill in anywere if need be. Right next to the fighter with my mace and shield casting green flame blade and spiritual weapon hacking and slashing. Or staying back buffing and shooting off firebolts. Why waste spell slots on healing when you can use a healing kit, pots ( potion), hit dice. If you can use a spell slots to hurt the enemy so the party can finish it off this round or heal that player that just dropped. The best thing to to is hurt the enemy then use a healer kit after fight to get the pic back up.

[Merellis]

I just assume most people roll in front of their DM, or in the cases of this forum and other online games they used a dice roller that the DM can see, unless you mean you'd be accusing them of having loaded dice.

[haplot]

I just got lucky with my stat rolls. Im doing me best to ignore the comments about the fact i could be just lying about what i rolled. i know the fact its statically improbable for me to have rolled them, but i did roll them.

Might i ask what you suggest for the feat?

Many thanks

[jaappleton]

I just got lucky with my stat rolls. Im doing me best to ignore the comments about the fact i could be just lying about what i rolled. i know the fact its statically improbable for me to have rolled them, but i did roll them.

Might i ask what you suggest for the feat?

Many thanks

Everyone can use Lucky. Alert is good because going first means you can prevent enemies from doing things.

Those are pretty universal for anyone character, regardless of class. It's just that most can't fit them in after ASIs, and other things they want.

[haplot]

Everyone can use Lucky. Alert is good because going first means you can prevent enemies from doing things.

Those are pretty universal for anyone character, regardless of class. It's just that most can't fit them in after ASIs, and other things they want.

Good call, will do my best to get it sorted... not sure if my dm is gonna go for it, but with the stats ive rolled, i dont see getting too many stat bonuses and i might just spam out on feats as and when

[Sir cryosin]

Good call, will do my best to get it sorted... not sure if my dm is gonna go for it, but with the stats ive rolled, i dont see getting too many stat bonuses and i might just spam out on feats as and when

If your picking up the party's doctor I would say pick up healer feat ASAP. Some people say it's shyat but I have used it and I saved my speech slots. And was very useful.

[haplot]

Will do, thank you for the heads up

[rudy]

That rude to tell him that. My group use 4d6 drop lowest. And the best stats I rolled was ( mind you in front of DM and group) was 17,17,17,17,13,13. Just because someone has good rolled stats don't mean they cheated. Also his DM could be find if he rolled all 18's like my DM. Don't accuse him of lying and cheating and telling him to change his stats. But instead give him advice relevant to what his questions were.
You'll note that I did *not* accuse him of lying and cheating (my language was carefully chosen to avoid accusation), and that I *did* also give relevant advice, so thanks very much. I gave him multiple pieces of relevant advice, most saliently the racial point.

What I said concerning probabilities was a warning about how such stats could be interpreted by a GM, given the 1 in 430,000 odds. But, to be frank, any GM who lets players roll in private is asking for trouble anyway *shrug*

[NinaWu]

Divination is mad as, especially when combined with lucky. Just watch out at higher levels where your opponents will most likely have legendary actions that can thwart your plans.

[Beelzebubba]

That rude to tell him that. My group use 4d6 drop lowest. And the best stats I rolled was ( mind you in front of DM and group)

Yeah, that's how to do it. Every player in my group must roll in the presence of a DM.

It eliminates all drama regarding high rolls, especially if some characters in the group roll low.

[haplot]

Well, in this case, DM let me loose with some dice and told me to create, so create I did :D

I was surprised at how the dice came out, and yes there are worse odds out there for rolling like 6 18s or whatever. Had some cousins (when playing AD&D) always 'rolled' 18s for each stat....

Its not like I have a lot of good luck when it comes to the important dice rolls to avoid a TPK or anything...

I just take my luck when I'm rolling stats as and when I can. For the most part I am lucky. Other days, its just horribly bad luck and i cant roll high for toffee.

[Finger6842]

Last campaign there were 4 players and the DM had each of us roll 4d6 2 times, drop the lowest 2 numbers and then gave each player the same set of 6 stats. We started with 17, 16, 16, 15, 11 and 8. Pretty amazing numbers and everyone was equal. Limited to PHB for everything but race we got some amazing characters and feats were allowed only at ASIs (no variant Human).
Half elf Bard
STR 8, DEX 17, CON 16, INT 15, WIS 11, CHA 16 became STR 8, DEX 18, CON 16, INT 15, WIS 12, CHA 18

I felt God like. The other three went Barb, Lock and Rogue which left me healing. A strange group in my opinion that functioned far better than expected. I expected to overlap with the Rogue but he was a great player who taught me that parties are far stronger when you discuss character development before you do it.

So that's the message I was trying to send, work as a team, discuss your (character) goals openly and show interest in the story unfolding around you.

[haplot]

Haven't had the official session 0 yet so I'm hoping that when it happens someone else will at least pick up medicine kit prof, and hopefully something like magical initiate (cleric) or somesuch just to make me something other than just a heal bot.

I'm all up for working together as a team though, the scenario should be, erm, interesting, to say the least :D

[Azgeroth]

if i were you, and i was being pigeon-holed into playing a cleric (which has happened) i would never, ever, heal the party.. it isn't right for them to force a roll on you that they want but dont want to play, you have as much right to play the class you want as anyone else...

that said, if you do want to heal, druids and bards as very capable healers (as good as a cleric, save for life clerics)

rangers and paladins are also capable, though not as good as clerics/druids/bards.

personally, +1 vote for the dwarven wizard.. because there are not enough dwarven wizards in the world (we'll show them elves!)

[haplot]

As the DM and I are having a little 'practice' run of part of scenario just to double check how things plays,(We are relatively newbies when it comes to 5e) I was thinking of doing a dwarven wizard to do that with :D

I was thinking of only healing when I _had_ to do so just so they know they haven't got my usual healbot cleric running round after them.

Hmm, I think I'm going to create a dwarf wizard now ....