How to Deal With Dex-Heavy Party

[Aldarin]

Hello all!
The party that I've just started DM'ing for is veeeeery heavy on Dexterity and Charisma. We have a Bard, a Rogue, a Warlock, and two monks. All of them have 16+ dex and below 9 strength. This is causing some problems, as I have to adjust for low hitting power, high AC, and no resources of strength.
I've thought about running a character myself (Barbarian) or just adjusting the adventures. Any ideas of how to make this campaign both fun and balanced?
Thanks!

[Naanomi]

What Strength challenges in the adventure are they unable to do?

[Aldarin]

What Strength challenges in the adventure are they unable to do?

Shoving stuck doors, literally any Athletics check, grappling, etc.

[Nifft]

They can all use stealth?

Give them stealth missions.

Stuff that would be impossible for a non-Dex group of characters.

[Aldarin]

They can all use stealth?

Give them stealth missions.

Stuff that would be impossible for a non-Dex group of characters.

I love that idea! How would you advise me to keep them from getting stale and unoriginal?

[Naanomi]

Shoving stuck doors, literally any Athletics check, grappling, etc.
Grappling is a tactical choice they can live without... how much does the adventure hinge on stuck doors, swimming, and climbing?

[Aldarin]

Grappling is a tactical choice they can live without... how much does the adventure hinge on stuck doors, swimming, and climbing?

I put in a fair bit of that kind of nuance. The adventure is based around them going through extreme environments to raid ancient crypts, so it'll seem unrealistic if it doesn't happen.

Edit: Words

[Thrudd]

Don't adjust anything. That's the choice they made, they should figure out how to do what needs to be done with the abilities at their disposal. If it turns out that it isn't a good idea for nobody to have strength, well that's a lesson for them for next time.

[Nifft]

I love that idea! How would you advise me to keep them from getting stale and unoriginal?

1. Have the required stealth part of a mission be a small part -- like, a regular adventure PLUS this stealth bit that nobody else could accomplish.

2. Have some optional stealth stuff to avoid or solve encounters which could also be solved by non-stealth methods.

3. Environmental factors that optionally provide a benefit for the lightly armored, like ropes to swing from (with a weight limit), or a knee-deep river.

4. Terrifying Magnetic Armor-Piercing Stirges.

[coolAlias]

Don't adjust anything. That's the choice they made, they should figure out how to do what needs to be done with the abilities at their disposal. If it turns out that it isn't a good idea for nobody to have strength, well that's a lesson for them for next time.
Yeah, mostly this. ^^^

It's fine to cater challenges to your party once in a while, but too much and it starts to lose appeal.

If the players are having fun, don't change anything.

[Mr. Crowbar]

I play in a group like this. The DM gave us a STR-heavy NPC to compensate but honestly, we've gotten by fine and can do without him most of the time.

[Aldarin]

Thanks to all of you for the excellent advice!

[Spiritchaser]

Give them accrobatic options to some of the strength problems. Door stuck? You could go back and try balancing on that ledge...

Can't swim the river? Well there IS a bridge... Kind of... Well there's maybe between half and a third of a bridge really...

Accrobatics can defend against grapples, and if they can't execute them... Do something else

As for stealth, give the party as much leeway and choice as possible in terms of how they use it. They will find their own novelty... At least... My players did. Placing a few absurd things to hide in can be overdone, but used sparingly can make for a good laugh.

Be creative about rewards for stealth though. It doesn't just have to be an avoided encounter or a surprise round

My PCs have learned a shocking amount by being where they shouldn't be... Though they didn't always figure out what it all meant.

Think about what the captain of the guard might say to a lieutenant, the orders a wizard or warlock might give to their minions and so on. What is written in that note in the second drawer?

What's coming next, plans, traps, where the mess hall is, when an inspection is... The prisoner is sick... Wait, prisoner? Follow him!... Er... Quietly.


All this can be as valuable as gold

They're in the stronghold undetected and want to set their own traps? This can bog the game down, but can be lots of fun

[Weirdlet]

This sounds like a mix of high dex and tolerable charisma- perfect for both stealth and espionage. Make it so they have to trick their way into places- finding pass-codes, the right people to bribe, the right uniforms. The right cover stories. If something is impossible to get into, make them scramble for supplies to crack it open- anything from lockpicks to a locksmith to the local equivalent of dynamite. Maybe for some things they hire muscle- make those recurring NPCs from a local guild or gang that they hire from regularly, people who are there for one or two things only but otherwise will sit back at camp and make tea at the fire, and let the heroes take their chances.

If they haven't got the physical strength, make them look for ways around the problem, or supplies to make it not a problem.

[Jama7301]

High CHA and DEX seems like they'd be a ballin' infiltration team. Take a page from something like Shadowrun and have them extract a prisoner from some place while being undercover or sneaking through the building/tower.

[Finieous]

Don't adjust anything. That's the choice they made, they should figure out how to do what needs to be done with the abilities at their disposal. If it turns out that it isn't a good idea for nobody to have strength, well that's a lesson for them for next time.

Yeah. Honestly, this sounds cool. Don't change anything -- just add more stuff. Let the players figure out how to deal with it. Maybe they end up relying more on gear for some obstacles (climbing kits, crowbars, etc.), but that's fine.

Figuring out how to deal with and navigate interesting and challenging environments the DM made up is...D&D...where I come from.

[sir_argo]

Don't adjust anything. That's the choice they made, they should figure out how to do what needs to be done with the abilities at their disposal. If it turns out that it isn't a good idea for nobody to have strength, well that's a lesson for them for next time.

Yeah, mostly this. ^^^

It's fine to cater challenges to your party once in a while, but too much and it starts to lose appeal.

If the players are having fun, don't change anything.

I'll 2nd this ^^^

I see no reason to help them out with this. I think it actually makes for some good challenges.

[clash]

Bard and rogue both get expertise. I wouldn't worry about athletics checks. Just don't have it so the only answer you accept is an athletics check

[Zejety]

Knock works on stuck doors (but is loud). Let the bard use his spell slots for non-combat stuff - that should be the advantage and cost of playing full casters. :P
And maybe one of the rogues can get expertise in Athletics at some point...

[Naanomi]

Bard and rogue both get expertise. I wouldn't worry about athletics checks. Just don't have it so the only answer you accept is an athletics check
True, and the Bard can inspire someone as well to climb the wall or whatever

[Akolyte01]

I love that idea! How would you advise me to keep them from getting stale and unoriginal?

Heists! Make it about more than just rolling stealth over and over. Give some acrobatics and sleight of hand opportunities

[Sigreid]

I would adjust nothing. They've made their choices, let them figure out how to work with it. You may be surprised with their ingenuity.

[Specter]

I love that idea! How would you advise me to keep them from getting stale and unoriginal?

Youtube any Metal Gear Solud game and take a look at the missions. I recommend Ground Zeroes as a start.

[Gryndle]

If you want the game to feel organic then change nothing. Neither cater to them nor balance against them anymore than you normally would.

Let the players ride the happiness that is high DEX, and then let them figure out how to overcome the challenges of low/no STR.

[lperkins2]

People aren't strong enough to lift most heavy things, that's why we have jacks and tackle. If you're talking a heavy stone door, that has no mechanical assist, 5 feet, by 5 feet, by 1 inch, it weighs about 300 pounds. That is light enough for an 18 strength character to push it open (push limit is 450 pounds). Of course, if it slides up, it is over the limit. Or if it is made of metal, then the weight goes up to about 1000 pounds.

If the party is going exploring in a broken down ruin, they should have drills, spikes, jacks, beams, rope and pulleys, or they should expect to get stuck and starve deep inside it.

[Psikerlord]

Don't adjust anything. That's the choice they made, they should figure out how to do what needs to be done with the abilities at their disposal. If it turns out that it isn't a good idea for nobody to have strength, well that's a lesson for them for next time.

This. Perhaps they can hire a strong porter to shove things when needed. Or perhaps they can just break down doors altogether (with enough time, and tools, would generally be possible I'd think. Loud, but possible).

[Psikerlord]

Don't adjust anything. That's the choice they made, they should figure out how to do what needs to be done with the abilities at their disposal. If it turns out that it isn't a good idea for nobody to have strength, well that's a lesson for them for next time.

This. Perhaps they can hire a strong porter to shove things when needed. Or perhaps they can just break down doors altogether (with enough time, and tools, would generally be automatic I'd think. Loud, but possible).

[Jophiel]

Between the bard and warlock you have access to Knock, Spider Climb, Hold Person, etc so opening doors, scaling walls and "grappling" shouldn't be an issue unless they're going to need to scale a dozen cliffs each adventure. Heck, with Mage Hand, you could lift and place a grappling hook 30' up instead of throwing it. I'd allow them to put knots in their rope for easier climbing and either forego the Athletics check or give them advantage. That'll take up some rope length but if you're only going 30' up anyway then using 15' of a 50' rope in knots isn't a problem. And, as mentioned, bring a crowbar to help open stuck doors if you don't want to Knock them.

They should have enough tricks between them to work around the low strength provided you're not intentionally throwing tons of strength-related checks at them.

[imanidiot]

Hello all!
The party that I've just started DM'ing for is veeeeery heavy on Dexterity and Charisma. We have a Bard, a Rogue, a Warlock, and two monks. All of them have 16+ dex and below 9 strength. This is causing some problems, as I have to adjust for low hitting power, high AC, and no resources of strength.
I've thought about running a character myself (Barbarian) or just adjusting the adventures. Any ideas of how to make this campaign both fun and balanced?
Thanks!

Just give all of your monsters +2 to hit and +2 AC. If they want to build their party with a glaring weakness that's their game. DO NOT give them a pet NPC that solves the problem.

[Naanomi]

Just give all of your monsters +2 to hit and +2 AC. If they want to build their party with a glaring weakness that's their game. DO NOT give them a pet NPC that solves the problem.
What about the party makeup makes you feel the monsters need to be stronger to compensate?

[Nifft]

I would adjust nothing. They've made their choices, let them figure out how to work with it. You may be surprised with their ingenuity.
Do this.


Just give all of your monsters +2 to hit and +2 AC. If they want to build their party with a glaring weakness that's their game. DO NOT give them a pet NPC that solves the problem.
Do NOT do this.

[Finger6842]

If it's causing you problems then Gauntlets of Ogre Power, if not then just ignore it.

[MeeposFire]

Considering you are the DM you actually do not have a problem since you can always solve it by adjusting the situation but here is what I suggest.

1. Make sure to include situations that have clear str based solutions. This will make them miss having a high str character and thus gives their choice some weight.

HOWEVER

2. Make sure that there are no situations that the adventure cannot be circumvented by these characters. Yes the EASY route may involve busting open the door but that does not mean the door cannot be avoided by using acrobatics, stealth, and other skills via other methods.

The important bit is to show that having a specialization has advantages and disadvantages and this party specialized in dex while also giving them ways to use their skills to still complete the adventure.

You may have to give them ideas so be sure to have some ideas ready in case they are not creative. If they can figure it out they will feel a sense of accomplishment which does not always happen if they do not have to overcome actual adversity.

[Pandiano]

As someone who DMs for now 23 years I made the experience, that nothing should be adjusted. Have them overcome those obstacles with creativity.
I don't plan solutions for complications or plots anymore, else they had to guess what I had in mind. I just throw mean things at them, go with (almost) whatever they think will work and watch them overcome them.

[djreynolds]

Hello all!
The party that I've just started DM'ing for is veeeeery heavy on Dexterity and Charisma. We have a Bard, a Rogue, a Warlock, and two monks. All of them have 16+ dex and below 9 strength. This is causing some problems, as I have to adjust for low hitting power, high AC, and no resources of strength.
I've thought about running a character myself (Barbarian) or just adjusting the adventures. Any ideas of how to make this campaign both fun and balanced?
Thanks!

Expertise in athletic or brawny with only an 8 in strength is the same as a fighter with maxed strength and proficiency, so one of them can grab this.

Warlocks have levitate for climbing and eldritch blast for doors, and soon the monks will not need anything

They will just have to learn and take their knocks.

As they level up, the bard will have a chance at 3rd level of obtaining athletics and/or expertise in it.

Or at 4th level, the feat brawny is right there or the skilled feat

And it will be fun solving these challenges

[Spore]

This thread ... weirds me out. None of your characters is buff or has supernatural strength? So what? They have their problems dealing with things like carrying orphans out of a burning house or swimming through troubled water. Not a biggie. Loads of people manage without good strength to body ratio everyday. And honestly wouldn't it be boring if they had a specialist for every situation and they would manage EVERYTHING?

Take my example: They have to get some McGuffin from amidst a hostile orc camp. How they approach it is their thing. Usually a group would send a scout then have him retrieve it or waltz in to safe their spotted scout. Now imagine the Orc soldiers are all brawny guys, throw in a few goblin spear throwers and a few siege trolls for variety. You can imagine that the Orcs would loose in a fair fight. But any Orc could win a grapple attempt against one of your heroes. (Same with two human guards that help each other).

Yes, this is D&D and an Orc is a standard mook that is killed often. But this is also 5. edition where standard mooks stay a threat. But they have theoretical access to many ways to solve that. Fey Warlock's retreat ability. Grease. Acrobatics to escape the chokehold. Use enchanting spells to get a few Orcs to fight for you. Sleep. Hold Person. Invisibility to prevent all this.

They have enough options.

[Rogerdodger557]

Throw enemies that do damage via saving throws, and try to avoid DEX. abilities that do poison and thunder damage are great, or toss some intellect devourers at them. INT savings anyone?

[SharkForce]

a brief reminder:

one of the core principles 5e was built on is bounded accuracy. what that means is that generally speaking, you shouldn't be setting DCs so high that you *need* a specialist to have a chance to succeed. remember the traps article in UA a while back? that was a good example. most of the traps had a DC of 15 or even 10 to notice, disarm, etc, and iirc none of them went higher than 20, even though a group with a rogue might have someone with a +9 to their check and theoretically capable of handling DC 29 traps as early as level 8. in the same vein, while it might make sense occasionally to have a DC 20 strength check for something, most of the time you shouldn't. not never, but it should be rare.

also, fairly often strength-based solutions should be something you could attempt multiple times. i mean, it isn't necessarily as good as succeeding the first time (if you smash the door down on the first try, you might get a surprise round... if you smash the door on the fifth try, you might get a volley of arrows in your face).

and, as noted... humans have spent a lot of time developing tools that get around our lack of infinite strength. your group may simply need to accept that from time to time, they will need to employ those tools. they may need to set up a block and tackle to lift heavy things, use long prybars, spend some time cutting through something with a pick or wood axe, etc.

[Princess]

It sounds like, if your rogue-warlock-doublemonk team is playing to their strengths, you have a very high offense party with the rather specific downside that they don't lift heavy things or shove very well. Can you provide some specific examples of exactly what comes up in play that's problematic?

[Finger6842]

It sounds like, if your rogue-warlock-doublemonk team is playing to their strengths, you have a very high offense party with the rather specific downside that they don't lift heavy things or shove very well. Can you provide some specific examples of exactly what comes up in play that's problematic?

Yes, this. I'm curious what the issues are specifically as well.