Lord Il Palazzo
2017-07-12, 07:03 PM
Spun off from a discussion in the RAW thread about how many superiority dice of what sizes a variant human fighter has if they take the Martial Adept feat at level 1 and then become a Battle Master at level 3.
Latest comment:
RAW you could actually lose the die, if one reads the class feature, it says that you have 4 superiority dies, not that you are gaining some, so going by the rule as written "specific over general", if you consider feats more general than class features, you are losing the die, because the class feature overrides the benefits of the feat, since this is unreasonable, and feats, as an optional rule, deserve to be considered more specific than a class rule, the correct way to do it is to reconsider the character's situation as a whole whenever you want to ask a question: at level 3 you have 4 SDs, then you apply the feat, you have lived for 2 levels with 1d6 SD, and when you have more (not gain, but have), the first part of the feat always comes first, since it's more specific than the class feature.
1) That's not what "specific over general" means. Feats, classes, subclasses and races aren't more specific or more general than each other. What that phrase means is that rules that apply to a specific subset of characters or situations take priority over those that apply to a broader group of characters or situations. For example, generally, a character who takes the attack action is able to make one weapon attack. The Extra Attack feature allows some specific characters to make two attacks (or more) instead. The specific rule beats the general rule so those characters are allowed two attacks instead of one.
2) That's not how leveling up or gaining features works. You can "have" multiple things without them overwriting each other. If you have one d6 superiority die and you then also have four d8 superiority dice, you don't lose the d6, you just have one dice and four dice for a total of five.
Look at it this way, if a fighter took Magic Initiate as a variant human feat at level 1, they "learn two cantrips". If they then take a level in wizard, that class says that they "know three cantrips". You wouldn't argue that the three cantrips they "know" at second level overwrite the two they "learned" at first, would you? Or a Knowledge domain cleric uses their Knowledge of the Ages Channel Divinity feature which says "for 10 minutes, you have proficiency with the chosen skill or tool". You wouldn't argue that they no longer have any proficiencies they had before the Channeled Divinity, would you?
Latest comment:
RAW you could actually lose the die, if one reads the class feature, it says that you have 4 superiority dies, not that you are gaining some, so going by the rule as written "specific over general", if you consider feats more general than class features, you are losing the die, because the class feature overrides the benefits of the feat, since this is unreasonable, and feats, as an optional rule, deserve to be considered more specific than a class rule, the correct way to do it is to reconsider the character's situation as a whole whenever you want to ask a question: at level 3 you have 4 SDs, then you apply the feat, you have lived for 2 levels with 1d6 SD, and when you have more (not gain, but have), the first part of the feat always comes first, since it's more specific than the class feature.
1) That's not what "specific over general" means. Feats, classes, subclasses and races aren't more specific or more general than each other. What that phrase means is that rules that apply to a specific subset of characters or situations take priority over those that apply to a broader group of characters or situations. For example, generally, a character who takes the attack action is able to make one weapon attack. The Extra Attack feature allows some specific characters to make two attacks (or more) instead. The specific rule beats the general rule so those characters are allowed two attacks instead of one.
2) That's not how leveling up or gaining features works. You can "have" multiple things without them overwriting each other. If you have one d6 superiority die and you then also have four d8 superiority dice, you don't lose the d6, you just have one dice and four dice for a total of five.
Look at it this way, if a fighter took Magic Initiate as a variant human feat at level 1, they "learn two cantrips". If they then take a level in wizard, that class says that they "know three cantrips". You wouldn't argue that the three cantrips they "know" at second level overwrite the two they "learned" at first, would you? Or a Knowledge domain cleric uses their Knowledge of the Ages Channel Divinity feature which says "for 10 minutes, you have proficiency with the chosen skill or tool". You wouldn't argue that they no longer have any proficiencies they had before the Channeled Divinity, would you?