Playing an Awakened Wolf?

[imaginary]

I'm sure this has been posted before, but how might I allow a player to play an Awakened (as per the spell) wolf, while maintaining balance and with a minimum of house rules.

Obviously playing a wolf as some major limitations, such as no hands, npcs reactions, etc. But it also comes with a few advantages if you use the wolf stats plus class levels.

One way I thought to balance it was to simply say being a 'wolf' was the players 'race', and/or using standard class abilities to mimic wolf traits. For example, a barbarian class seems like it would be a good fit and could simulate the wolf's added speed or AC. Or rogue grants cunning action or sneak attack, which simulates the wolf's speed or pact tactics.

What are some considerations for allowing or playing an Awakened wolf with class levels in 5e? And how might this be achieved in a balanced way without a bunch of house rules?

Thanks, imaginari.

[Ninja_Prawn]

One way I thought to balance it was to simply say being a 'wolf' was the players 'race'

That's the way I'd go. Something like this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?422857-Awakened-Woodland-Creatures-PEACH) (though it doesn't cover wolves specifically).

[Spore]

Wolf Totem Barbarian. Or Ranger (favored enemy critters, I kid). It honestly depends how mystical you want to be. Because you totally can do a caster if you want: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%8Ckami

[Oramac]

The above ideas are solid, but if you like, take a look at the Lycan race in my sig. It was originally written more with the werewolf in mind, but you could probably modify it to work for a regular wolf too.

[Unoriginal]

I'm sure this has been posted before, but how might I allow a player to play an Awakened (as per the spell) wolf, while maintaining balance and with a minimum of house rules.

Obviously playing a wolf as some major limitations, such as no hands, npcs reactions, etc. But it also comes with a few advantages if you use the wolf stats plus class levels.

One way I thought to balance it was to simply say being a 'wolf' was the players 'race', and/or using standard class abilities to mimic wolf traits. For example, a barbarian class seems like it would be a good fit and could simulate the wolf's added speed or AC. Or rogue grants cunning action or sneak attack, which simulates the wolf's speed or pact tactics.

What are some considerations for allowing or playing an Awakened wolf with class levels in 5e? And how might this be achieved in a balanced way without a bunch of house rules?

Thanks, imaginari.

An Awakened Wolf would play like a Druid who is constantly shape-shifted, without the spells, IMO.

[Flashy]

Play a Beastmaster and just play as the wolf instead of the Ranger.

[dejarnjc]

An Awakened Wolf would play like a Druid who is constantly shape-shifted, without the spells, IMO.

OP wants a PC awakened wolf that will level up. Not a CR 1/4 wolf that can talk and hangs around the party.


I recommend using a non-variant human stat block and or a homebrew one to start with and then playing as a barbarian whom is proficient in natural weapons.

[Unoriginal]

OP wants a PC awakened wolf that will level up. Not a CR 1/4 wolf that can talk and hangs around the party.

Yes?

Just treat the wolf like a lvl 1 druid without spell that's always shapeshifted, when writing down the stats/skills/features/etc, then handle leveling and the like from there.

Hell, just say that the first multiclassing is without restriction, and have the wolf get their Druid spells if they decide to continue leveling in Druid.

Not the most elegant solution, but it should be relatively easy to handle and to balance.

[dejarnjc]

I don't think playing a spell caster is really an option unless you really want to hand wave away the somatic component rules for spells.

[ImproperJustice]

This would involve a little research, but True 20 (a sadly failed system based off 3.5 D&D) did have some really good ideas.
In their fantasy guide, part of the revised edition, they had rules on running awakened animals in 3.5.
With a little effort it could be imported to 5e.

Possibly an eaier route is to scour Drive thru RPG/ Rpg Now for a free fanzine called "Enter the Labyrinth". It was aimed at OSR players, but one of the articles included having exceptional or awakened animal companions.
I want to say it was issue 4, but it had a level up chart and various buffs and perks that could be gained for said exceptional animal.
Osr material is very easy to adapat to 5e.

[nickl_2000]

You could just use these races and handwave the thumb issue
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bzjg5KPXHbU4X0o4bTNxSjYzN2c/view

[Alerad]

With minimal changes:
Play human or variant human stats.
Restrict classes to melee. Barbarian, fighter, ranger and rogue are ok. Maybe go for the spellless ranger variant.
No shields, weapons or foci. The wolf has no hands. As an optional rule it can carry something in its mouth (up to you).
Treat the wolf teeth as a short sword.
Wolf only. When you take the Attack action you can attempt to knock the opponent prone as a bonus action. This is optional though.

[8wGremlin]

I've played an Awakened Wolf in 3.5 (psion) "Blackfang" was great fun.

How I'd do it for 5e -
Just let them play a vHuman, and let them pick any class, and any feats as normal.
Just Fluff it.

They can talk, so no problem with verbal spell casting, material casting, and what constitutes 'in hand' can be an issue, have fetishes wrapped around paws, spell component pouches around neck etc.
Somatic requirements can involve non-hand extremities that a humanoid doesn't have, twitching ears, swish of tail
"wingardium leviosa" with a tail

You want the player to be able to trip, let them refluff shield mastery feat

Basically don't over complicate it with additional rules, keep it simple.

and above all have fun.

[Puh Laden]

Whatever you do, don't forget to add advantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks dependent on smell.

[nickl_2000]

Whatever you do, don't forget to add advantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks dependent on smell.

To know, this seems silly but I used it at least 5 times in my last game as a moon druid

[BlackbirdXX]

It's already been mentioned. But I like the answer of a druid. Give it a cr1/4 commoner form. Sort of reverse moon druid. It's a wolf with tons of HP and barding for AC/equipment but has to shape change into a fragile commoner to cast? Perhaps let it learn stronger humanoid forms like bugbear, orcs, gnolls etc. seems like it should be easy to balance. Maybe allow it an extra change per short rest? To compensate for the inability of spell casting when knocked out of human form?

[Hruken]

I actually let one of my players play an awakened mink druid. I applied the awaken spell to the weasel statblock, and then used those stats for the base for point buy. The base stats still gave the player like 10 points or so to distribute. We added a few racial traits, I think I gave a couple of floating +1s, some other little tweaks and then a custom background.

I handwaved the whole lack of hands thing for spellcasting and manipulating items, but he completely lacked the ability to use standard weapons or armor, and didn't bother trying to get custom gear.

He also wanted a homebrew wildshape wherein he turns into human forms.

It worked pretty well overall, but a vampire bite and reincarnation led to him being an elf. For now at least

[8wGremlin]

It's already been mentioned. But I like the answer of a druid. Give it a cr1/4 commoner form. Sort of reverse moon druid. It's a wolf with tons of HP and barding for AC/equipment but has to shape change into a fragile commoner to cast? Perhaps let it learn stronger humanoid forms like bugbear, orcs, gnolls etc. seems like it should be easy to balance. Maybe allow it an extra change per short rest? To compensate for the inability of spell casting when knocked out of human form?

I like that, but does lock them into Druid for 1st level...
Instead of choose Beasts, have them choose from the Humanoid list?

[Elminster298]

Play a Beastmaster and just play as the wolf instead of the Ranger.

So does the wolf get a human ranger as it's "animal companion"? 🤔

[Ninja_Prawn]

So does the wolf get a human ranger as it's "animal companion"? 🤔

Reminds me of Yuri & Blanca (http://shadowhearts.wikia.com/wiki/Blanca) from Shadow Hearts. Yuri may think Blanca is his animal companion... but clearly the wolf is the brains of the operation. :smallwink:

[Spore]

I don't think playing a spell caster is really an option unless you really want to hand wave away the somatic component rules for spells.

Why hand wave that? A wolf cannot use his "hands" aka front paws but that's why it's not called "hand gestures". For an animal that has a body language that intense could easily refluff somatic components. Verbal components are different howls, growls and other noises. Somatic components include the tails, perching the body, looking at the sun or moon.

An awakened wolf nature cleric would cast animal friendship with just snuffling at the animal in question's "material component", then howl et voila. Wolf "speaks" with squirrel. But I feel a mystical effect would be more stylish. Take Okami's brush. Or Wolf Link's shadowy attacks (fluffing in Warlock). Any LotR Worg pack leader could very well be an Oath Breaker Paladin. You could even do a failed transmuter wizard apprentice that tries to get Polymorph to work, constantly complaining about failed transformations giving him the fur of a leopard or the ears of an elephant.

[Lombra]

I'd do something like that:
Race: wolf
Abilities:
- pack tactics
- advantage on smell perception checks
- can use bite as an unarmed attack for 1d6+STR, on a hit it can use a bonus action to attempt a shove.

He'll have to acquire barding and eventual custom made weapons. One could make its mouth count as a hand for the purpose of grappling and handling weapons for extra anime.

And then apply class abilities as normal.

The size is medium I suppose?

[Sirithhyando]

I'd do something like that:
Race: wolf
Abilities:
- pack tactics
- advantage on smell perception checks
- can use bite as an unarmed attack for 1d6+STR, on a hit it can use a bonus action to attempt a shove.

He'll have to acquire barding and eventual custom made weapons. One could make its mouth count as a hand for the purpose of grappling and handling weapons for extra anime.

And then apply class abilities as normal.

The size is medium I suppose?



Bite. Melee Weapon Attack: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 7 (2d4 + 2) piercing damage. If the target is a creature, it must succeed on a DC 11 Strength saving throw or be knocked prone.
Wolf have strengh of 12 and dex of 15... his +4 to hit is more likely Dex+proficiency and damage is +2 from his dex

Would be closer to say

Wolf
+2 Dex and +1 Cons (this is arbitary)
- Size is medium
- Bonus skill proficiency : Perception and Stealth
- Keen hearing and smell (straight as the wolf)
- Pack tactic (though i'd put it X times per rest... as the rage ability... maybe you can use it a number of time equal your proficiency bonus per long rest? Last 1 minute as the rage, and since he'd have it straight from 1st level instead of 3rd, he would be able to do it less times than the barbarian)
- Natural weapon : Bite attack, to hit : Dex+proficiency; damage 2d4+Dex, with strengh saving throw to avoid knocked prone (DC : 10+Str mod)

Though I feel this would be close to the actual wolf, pack tactic been tempered down... the knocked prone part should be take away entirely of it could be used as a reaction a number of time per long rest equal to strengh mod? It would need to be tempered a little i think.

And of course, any social encounter would be very difficult with a wolf.

I'd do it as a Mystic, with mastery of fire, you'd be able to emulate Red XIII. :smallbiggrin:

[Elminster298]

Reminds me of Yuri & Blanca (http://shadowhearts.wikia.com/wiki/Blanca) from Shadow Hearts. Yuri may think Blanca is his animal companion... but clearly the wolf is the brains of the operation. :smallwink:

YASSSSSS! Love that game!

[Sir cryosin]

Why not have them play a moon Druid. Making the wolf there normal form and give them a human form as part of there wild shape.

Sorry didn't see someone already said it.

[Hypersmith]

I think in the end it boils down to how the player wants to play.

Imo for stats, as someone said above Vuman stats and run with it - keeps it balanced, lets them think of themselves as a wolf. When it comes to class, the rest can be figured out. Does the player want to be a shapeshifter? Or a rogue, ifighter, etc? Either way, I see no reason for anything not to work.

[Vaz]

Matt Mercer wrote an Order of the Lycan for the Witch Hunter class, letting it pseudo shapeshift into a werewolf. Don't see why that couldn't work in reverse for a neat idea of an awakened wolf class and archetype.

[imaginary]

Thank you all for your replies, ideas, and insights.

After further consideration, to maintain balance, I like 8wGremlin's idea of re-skinning/fluffing existing races to come up with a wolf. And then using class abilities and feats to represent the other abilities.

For example, you could easily fluff a variant-human into a wolf. Say +1 Str, +1 Dex, Extra Proficiency in Perception or Survival, and an extra feat like Observant or Alert. I actually really like the idea of re-skinning a Shield Master feat to acts as the wolf's trip attack.

A wood elf might make a good race to reskin into a wolf, at least for the movement. Kobolds get Pact Tactics, but the rest of the race doesn't quite fit.

While a first level fluffed character might not equal up to a wolf, adding in class levels could mimic other abilities. Having class levels as a barbarian would certainly help AC. Having some rogue levels would definitely add to the wolf's movement and stalking. Having some ranger levels would put them right at home in the woods or mountains. I could even see an animal companion as another wolf, perhaps her mate.

It would also be interesting to allow a druid wolf to shapeshift into a human form. This would actually allow the character to be a bit more involved in some of the social encounters.

I think just about any class would work, though I would limit the character to not having hands. This could put make some casting more difficult, though it could be debated if you really need "hands" for somatic casting.
_____

The other alternate choice is to make a wolf "race". Sirithhyando had some good suggestions. How balanced do you think it is?


Wolf
+2 Dex and +1 Cons (this is arbitary)
- Size is medium
- Bonus skill proficiency : Perception and Stealth
- Keen hearing and smell (straight as the wolf)
- Pack tactic (though i'd put it X times per rest... as the rage ability... maybe you can use it a number of time equal your proficiency bonus per long rest? Last 1 minute as the rage, and since he'd have it straight from 1st level instead of 3rd, he would be able to do it less times than the barbarian)
- Natural weapon : Bite attack, to hit : Dex+proficiency; damage 2d4+Dex, with strengh saving throw to avoid knocked prone (DC : 10+Str mod)

It seems a bit strong to me with both trip and pact tactics, but then again having no hands and not being able to use weapons and some armors might be a pretty big limiting factor.

I would probably:

reduce the Dex bonus to +1
have only 1 bonus proficiency
make Trip a separate ability. To borrow from Shield Master, "on a successful attack, use a bonus action to make a Shove/trip."
I'm debating if pack tactics would be too powerful to always be on. It seems a weird ability to only be able to do a limited number of times before it runs out for the combat.


Thoughts?

[Sirithhyando]

It seems a bit strong to me with both trip and pact tactics, but then again having no hands and not being able to use weapons and some armors might be a pretty big limiting factor.

I would probably:

reduce the Dex bonus to +1
have only 1 bonus proficiency
make Trip a separate ability. To borrow from Shield Master, "on a successful attack, use a bonus action to make a Shove/trip."
I'm debating if pack tactics would be too powerful to always be on. It seems a weird ability to only be able to do a limited number of times before it runs out for the combat.


Thoughts?

Balance Wise, i didn't really think about it. Only thought about modeling the wolf as is into a race.
Pack tactic is definitly too strong to be always on, and if you look at the wolfbarian, limiting it's number of use is how it's already done, that's why i've put a number of time max. If it's a number of times equal to it's proficiency mod, he'll be able to do it only 2 times at the first few level while the barbarian gain the ability only at level 3.
I left the trip part with the natural weapon since, as you said, he's a wolf, his choices will be fewer than a fighter. That's also the reason i'd play this race as Mystic, since finding verbal only spells would be difficult.
Though the trip as a feat would be very good, especially if you let the keen hearing and smell feature (very strong feature, though maybe less than pack tactic :smalltongue:).

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/finalfantasy/images/1/1f/RedXIII-FFVIIArt.png/revision/latest?cb=20110227161510

[JeffreyGator]

Pack tactic is definitly too strong to be always on, and if you look at the wolfbarian, limiting it's number of use is how it's already done, that's why i've put a number of time max.

Given that there is an (admittedly weaker) race with pack tactics, I don't think it is too strong to be always on. Admittedly, I play with minis and a mat and so this isn't much different than my tactical players almost always flanking. It's a less fiddly form of flanking.

Balance Wise: (based on musicus' racial homebrew (http://zappyman2.wix.com/musicushomebrew) )
+2 dex, +1 con or str or wis = 3
Stealth and perception skills = 1
pack tactics = 1
speed 40 = 1
Keen hearing and smell = .5
Bite = 1 (2d4 > d6 , agreed that bite seems to be DEX rather than STR,
(This may be partially moot since I would likely have Primal Savagery from the UA Starter Spells as a cantrip)
Trip = 1 save would be 8+DEX+PROF saving throw - this probably should be limited to DEX per SR to balance with FtrBM Trip and MonkOH trip etc
Inability to use most weapons = -1 (disadvantage on heavy, two-handed etc.)
no thumbs = -1 (restrictions on most tool proficiencies)

At 6.5 with the -2 of disads it is pretty strong but not OP depending on how the player works around those disads. Dropping one of the stats might make up for that.

[imaginary]

Great reference, thanks!