OOTS #1082 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Deepbluediver]

Geez, Hel is really coming across as kind of a... unhappy, rude lady.

[Darth Tom]

Evidence continues to mount for my "immature teen emo angsty death goddess" theory. Knowing how these things go, that means it can't possibly be correct.

Really enjoying how this arc is developing though. I didn't get it at first but it's working well.

[137beth]

Heh, he at least knows that flattering Hel is a way to get her to agree.

[Nith]

New old world info! Did we know before that the old world existed for a while before whatever happened to it happened to it?

[Eragon123]

So... the main job of her clerics is to be her PR team.

I guess they have a Hel of a Time.

[i6uuaq]

Hmm. Not sure what this strip is adding to the plot. Character development for Hel?

[MReav]

Okay, so we now know those are Death Giants (Ohhh... I wanted them to be mature vampire spirits).

Hel, why did you agree to this bet in the first place?

[woweedd]

Wow, first time i've happened to be on the site when an update was oisted. Either way, that was funny. Hel is an...interesting character, to say the least.

[Mariel Dragon]

New old world info! Did we know before that the old world existed for a while before whatever happened to it happened to it?

To my knowledge, we were told that the old world existed less than an hour before the Snarl destroyed it.

Edit: 27 minutes, in fact. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0274.html)

Edit 2: Misread it apparently. Oh well.

[Kantaki]

Well Hel, it's kinda your fault you have no wirshippers or clerics.
I mean betting with your father?
That's not the kind of gamble anyone who has ever even heard the name Loki should make.

A friendlier attitude wouldn't hurt either.

[Deepbluediver]

New old world info! Did we know before that the old world existed for a while before whatever happened to it happened to it?
Maybe? The issue is that although we, the audience, know more than the OotS about some things because we get to see all the characters, even we don't know everything there is to know because we only know what any character has exposited to another. The previous world might still have been "under construction" by deific standards, but have existed for hundreds or thousands of years from a mortal perspective before the snarl tore it apart.

[ORione]

Okay, so we now know those are Death Giants (Ohhh... I wanted them to be mature vampire spirits).

Hel, why did you agree to this bet in the first place?

My guess is that it wasn't obvious that the bet would screw her over. That it was something like, "You don't get souls based on alignment, but you get all of the dishonored souls, regardless of alignment." Hel didn't realize until it was too late that only dwarves had an honor system, and they usually tried to live and die honorably.

I'm not forgetting anything, am I? We don't know exactly what the bet was, do we?

[Keltest]

My sympathy for Thrym is rapidly fading. Nobody likes a sycophant dude.

[Deepbluediver]

To my knowledge, we were told that the old world existed less than an hour before the Snarl destroyed it.
I thought the old world was destroyed by the snarl IN AN HOUR, but we didn't really have a good sense of how much time there was between world-inception and snarl-creation.

[Dr.Zero]

New old world info! Did we know before that the old world existed for a while before whatever happened to it happened to it?

Until now we knew there was a world running for some time "Until the day it [the Snarl] struck" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0274.html) and then the old world was destroyed in 27 minutes.
Not it seems that "Until the day it struck" was a time long enough for Hel to raise clerics to spread her words and get a sweet taste of power.
(Years, or decades probably).
A nice bit of information, indeed (which at least on that seems to confirm Shojo's tale).

[Mariel Dragon]

I thought the old world was destroyed by the snarl IN AN HOUR, but we didn't really have a good sense of how much time there was between world-inception and snarl-creation.

Ah, right. Oh well.

[The MunchKING]

My sympathy for Thrym is rapidly fading. Nobody likes a sycophant dude.

The straight-line eyebrows make me think he's trying for a deadpan sarcasm. Hel just either wasn't paying attention or didn't care as long as he agreed with her.

[DeliaP]

To my knowledge, we were told that the old world existed less than an hour before the Snarl destroyed it.

Edit: 27 minutes, in fact. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0274.html)

Edit 2: Misread it apparently. Oh well.


I thought the old world was destroyed by the snarl IN AN HOUR, but we didn't really have a good sense of how much time there was between world-inception and snarl-creation.

Checking the previous strip 273... "And the gods, blinded by their petty squabbles, did not see the Snarl growing every day" and then on 274 "Until the day it struck... Twenty seven minutes after it revealed it's existence, the Snarl had undone creation... "

So World 1.0 existed for at least a few days before attacking, and then destroyed the world in 27 minutes. From Hel's description it appears that World 1.0 lasted for a lot longer than just a few days, and the Snarl must have been growing quite slowly. Huh, well there you go.

ps. Thanks for the new comic!

[MReav]

Well Hel, it's kinda your fault you have no wirshippers or clerics.
I mean betting with your father?

The bet was with Thor. Comic 1000, Subcomic 2, panel 4. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1000.html)

Loki was helping Thor to stop her representative from getting there.

[Keltest]

The straight-line eyebrows make me think he's trying for a deadpan sarcasm. Hel just either wasn't paying attention or didn't care as long as he agreed with her.

Based on his previous actions, it seems more likely to me that he is expressing outrage, feigned or legitimate, for Hel's sake so that she will appreciate him more.

[warmachine]

The old gods. They were ***** to each other, they were ***** to the mortals, even their worshippers, everyone knew they were *****, and everyone prayed to them hoping for clemency occasionally.

[Lord Of Mantas]

So... the main job of her clerics is to be her PR team.

I guess they have a Hel of a Time.
As it turns out, if Redcloak is to be believed, this is pretty much why gods bother with having clerics in the first place. (Namely, for the purpose of spreading their influence and dealing with issues directly outside their geographical domain.)

[The MunchKING]

Loki was helping Thor to stop her representative from getting there.

From the phrasing I had assumed it was her betting against a Thor/Loki team up, presumably with Thor as the front man so she didn't get suspicious until too late.


Based on his previous actions, it seems more likely to me that he is expressing outrage, feigned or legitimate, for Hel's sake so that she will appreciate him more.

That is certainly possible to. I thought it looked a lot like Roy's face when he did that kind of thing.

Also he's a demigod, so he probably has to cope with a lot less worshippers than the main guys already. So that would add another layer to why he wouldn't be happy that she was bragging about getting all the worship for NOT doing anything.

[Czhorat]

I want my...

I want my....

I want my Oh Oh Tee (s)

[Czhorat]

Hmm. Not sure what this strip is adding to the plot. Character development for Hel?

Not every strip needs to advance the plot. The plot is not the only point.

It also DOES clear up one plot point; the dialog with Thrym allows Hel to remind us why she can't just send undead giants after the OOTS and directly attack them. He essentially asks the question a reader might ask about why Hel isn't intervening more directly.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

something like, "You don't get souls based on alignment, but you get all of the dishonored souls, regardless of alignment."

"And you won't have clerics! You can keep all of your power, no need to share any with those ungrateful beings that'll only use it to cure your diseases!"

GW

[Keltest]

"And you won't have clerics! You can keep all of your power, no need to share any with those ungrateful beings that'll only use it to cure your diseases!"

GW

Actually, I don't think Hel's lack of clerics was directly part of the scam. As we have seen, she is perfectly capable of imbuing clerical powers in minions if she chooses to, its just that Hel is a Bad Guy in a world full of Heroes, so she cant actually establish a church because people keep breaking her toys. We do know that nobody living actually worships Hel, but I don't remember if it was ever explained why that's the case.

[MReav]

From the phrasing I had assumed it was her betting against a Thor/Loki team up, presumably with Thor as the front man so she didn't get suspicious until too late.


Point is is that the person I was quoting was chastising her for making a bet with Loki, when the bet was with Thor. If Loki was in on the bet, she was most likely not aware of it (god of trickery and all that).

[Veya]

I can empathize with Hel's desire to be worshiped when you consider that this sort of stuff literally fuels gods, she's got the rotten end of this deal and maybe if Thor had tried working something out that would legitimate benefit both sides, things wouldn't be going the way they are, I mean, she is still evil and I want to see her plans crash and burn in a spectacular pyre that would bring a tear to Loki's eyes, but still.

[Peelee]

Huh. Even in the afterlife, the male dwarves are always bald. I guess if they weren't, there'd be Hel toupee.

[Yklikt]

Actually, I don't think Hel's lack of clerics was directly part of the scam. As we have seen, she is perfectly capable of imbuing clerical powers in minions if she chooses to, its just that Hel is a Bad Guy in a world full of Heroes, so she cant actually establish a church because people keep breaking her toys. We do know that nobody living actually worships Hel, but I don't remember if it was ever explained why that's the case.

Although she say she give to the kind of undead that already start powerful, so should actually advantage over humans

[Psyren]

Not every strip needs to advance the plot. The plot is not the only point.

It also DOES clear up one plot point; the dialog with Thrym allows Hel to remind us why she can't just send undead giants after the OOTS and directly attack them. He essentially asks the question a reader might ask about why Hel isn't intervening more directly.

It actually does more than that; it sets up that Odin's rules CAN be broken. This is the second time (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1023.html) they've alluded to that being a possibility. Doing so is currently more trouble for Hel than it's worth, thus she is trying to abuse loopholes instead, but could that change? If you think about it, in addition to being very petulant, she has little to lose here.

Up until now, we've been assuming that in the worst case scenario, the gods really CAN just unmake the world and remake it anew, destroying Xykon and saving all the mortal souls from the Snarl (even if they die in the process). But if one of the gods gets twitchy and grabs at the threads, others will likely do the same, and the Snarl will grow exponentially worse. It may be even that Loki's plan B is no longer feasible, and everyone's souls are in more jeopardy than we thought.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Actually, I don't think Hel's lack of clerics was directly part of the scam. As we have seen, she is perfectly capable of imbuing clerical powers in minions if she chooses to, its just that Hel is a Bad Guy in a world full of Heroes, so she cant actually establish a church because people keep breaking her toys. We do know that nobody living actually worships Hel, but I don't remember if it was ever explained why that's the case.

Something prevents her from having living beings as clerics. Whatever it is, it is unlikely to have been carried over from the previous world, since she had clerics then, and it is likely the undead were as delicious morsels of XP then as they are now. Therefore, what stops her from having living clerics (and probably living worshipers of any kind) happened in the new world, which suggests it was part of the wager.

GW

[Snails]

I can empathize with Hel's desire to be worshiped when you consider that this sort of stuff literally fuels gods, she's got the rotten end of this deal and maybe if Thor had tried working something out that would legitimate benefit both sides, things wouldn't be going the way they are, I mean, she is still evil and I want to see her plans crash and burn in a spectacular pyre that would bring a tear to Loki's eyes, but still.

Yeah, but...obsessing over the souls that "should" be worshipping you and hating the souls you have, that does not seem like a good starting point for convincing would be clerics what a great idea it would be to worship Hel.

Whatever deal that happened may not have turned out to be fair, but she seems to be fully "living down" to the deal.

[JumboWheat01]

Huh. Even in the afterlife, the male dwarves are always bald. I guess if they weren't, there'd be Hel toupee.

That's bard levels of bad punning right there. Well done.

At least Hel isn't in the Realms. No worshipers? No being a god for you! Count your blessings where you can, I say.

[Morquard]

My guess is that it wasn't obvious that the bet would screw her over. That it was something like, "You don't get souls based on alignment, but you get all of the dishonored souls, regardless of alignment." Hel didn't realize until it was too late that only dwarves had an honor system, and they usually tried to live and die honorably.

I'm not forgetting anything, am I? We don't know exactly what the bet was, do we?

I think it might have been along the lines of "Everyone is afraid of death, so even if I wouldn't have mortal clerics and only undead ones, I'd still be just as powerful"

[Aerysil]

Thrym can't seem to make up his mind whether he wants to pathetically keep trying to get Hel alone or actually snark at her about her developed position.

[SavageWombat]

I'm not sure the implication is that she had clerics in the last world - just that she was more free to act in the world and the populace knew it.

I don't know that Rich is saying the prior world was our world - but I think it's supposed to be analogous to it.

[Psyren]

Something prevents her from having living beings as clerics. Whatever it is, it is unlikely to have been carried over from the previous world, since she had clerics then, and it is likely the undead were as delicious morsels of XP then as they are now. Therefore, what stops her from having living clerics (and probably living worshipers of any kind) happened in the new world, which suggests it was part of the wager.

GW

Wasn't "we need monsters to be fodder for our clerics" a feature of 2.0? A feature that led to the Dark One?

I would wager THAT is what led to her having no clerics - everyone else's needed undead to either grind or deputize, leaving none left to rise particularly high.



I don't know that Rich is saying the prior world was our world - but I think it's supposed to be analogous to it.

World 1 was full of just as many mythical creatures as world 2, they gods were just even less in harmony than they are now about what should be in it. Hence the argument over Tolkien elves vs. Keebler elves.

[Kantaki]

Point is is that the person I was quoting was chastising her for making a bet with Loki, when the bet was with Thor. If Loki was in on the bet, she was most likely not aware of it (god of trickery and all that).

From the way Hel accuses Loki in the Godsmoot scene I always assumed she knew he was involved in the bet.
She just didn't expect daddy to con her.

But yeah, I seem to have misremembered the scene a bit. I thought Loki's involvement was more direct- that the bet was between Hel and both Thor and him.
I mean I could try to argue that Loki setting the whole thing up makes it very his bet too, but eh, I misremembered a minor detail.
Happens to everyone sometimes.

[woweedd]

Something prevents her from having living beings as clerics. Whatever it is, it is unlikely to have been carried over from the previous world, since she had clerics then, and it is likely the undead were as delicious morsels of XP then as they are now. Therefore, what stops her from having living clerics (and probably living worshipers of any kind) happened in the new world, which suggests it was part of the wager.

GW
Now i'm picturing the OOTS world's Gods just playing the world's most elaborate game of golf, where the goal is having the most worshippers and the penalties system is 400 pages long.

[MReav]

From the way Hel accuses Loki in the Godsmoot scene I always assumed she knew he was involved in the bet.
She just didn't expect daddy to con her.

But yeah, I seem to have misremembered the scene a bit. I thought Loki's involvement was more direct- that the bet was between Hel and both Thor and him.
I mean I could try to argue that Loki setting the whole thing up makes it very his bet too, but eh, I misremembered a minor detail.
Happens to everyone sometimes.

She says it was her bet with Thor, rather than her bet with Thor and Loki. I assumed that she made a bet with Thor, but the current circumstances have put Loki in Thor's camp, when he was originally (at least officially) neutral. She's bitter at him because he chose his (im)mortal enemy over his daughter.

[Bluepaw]

Huh. Even in the afterlife, the male dwarves are always bald. I guess if they weren't, there'd be Hel toupee.

:elan::elan::elan:

[SilverCacaobean]

Hey, I was gone for a few days and... four updates? Giant, you're on a roll!

I expected Thrym to be like his high priest and I still find it hilarious the way he turned out to be. :smallbiggrin: You go, Thrym! Kiss her bony ass. Only thing you've got left... I still don't know if he genuinely cares about Hel, or just wants a share of the power.

[Jay R]

Hmm. Not sure what this strip is adding to the plot. Character development for Hel?

When Gandalf mentions Aragorn to Frodo early, in the chapter "Shadows of the Past", we didn't know what it added to the plot. When he said that his heart told him that Gollum still had a role to play, we didn't know what it added to the plot.

When Edmund refused to admit to Peter and Susan that he'd been to Narnia, we didn't know what it added to the plot.

When Ron showed Harry his pet rat Scabbers, we didn't know what it added to the plot.

You're absolutely right. We do not know what impact this scene will have later.

[Shining Wrath]

The Giant seems to think that Hel is actually evil. SURPRISE!

Self-centered? Check.
Malicious? Check.
Vindictive for petty offenses? Check.
Manipulative? Uh-huh.
Wants credit she didn't earn? Of course.

I don't think I like her or want her to succeed.

We now know that those are Death Giants with the fangs and purple skin. Which or may not closely follow the 3.5 stat block for death giants, because Rich Doesn't Care.

Thrym is coming across as really pathetic. " ... and then we could be alone ...". Dude, she's using you, she told you she's using you, and she treats you with open contempt. Do you only have a demi-spine? Insist on better! Or, in the evil underling tradition, wreak a terrible vengeance by betraying Hel at a key moment. I'm down with that.

I want to know what happened to the poor dwarf soul with the brown beard. Did she consume him?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Wasn't "we need monsters to be fodder for our clerics" a feature of 2.0? A feature that led to the Dark One?

The problem, IIRC; was insufficient low-level cannon fodder for clerics to level up on. If nothing else, it'd made undead even more desirable to hunt down than in world 2.0, where you can hunt down goblins for easy XP.


I'm not sure the implication is that she had clerics in the last world

"Now that I don't have clerics"

GW

[Shining Wrath]

Well Hel, it's kinda your fault you have no wirshippers or clerics.
I mean betting with your father?
That's not the kind of gamble anyone who has ever even heard the name Loki should make.

A friendlier attitude wouldn't hurt either.

She bet with Thor, who is usually portrayed as something of a drunken oaf. However, maybe Odin coached Thor.


My sympathy for Thrym is rapidly fading. Nobody likes a sycophant dude.

Yeah, he's definitely trying too hard and should go woo one of the other goddesses.


Huh. Even in the afterlife, the male dwarves are always bald. I guess if they weren't, there'd be Hel toupee.

I think you're wigging out here, and point out that the female dwarves are all clothed, presumably in a hirsute.

[Kantaki]

She says it was her bet with Thor, rather than her bet with Thor and Loki. I assumed that she made a bet with Thor, but the current circumstances have put Loki in Thor's camp, when he was originally (at least officially) neutral. She's bitter at him because he chose his (im)mortal enemy over his daughter.

Yes I know.
As I said I kinda assume(d) whatever scheme Hel accused her father and Thor of was connected to the bet that prevented her from getting souls/ having a clergy.
And since it had been a while I misremembered how exactly the scheme and where connected.

[Stabbey]

Hmm. Not sure what this strip is adding to the plot. Character development for Hel?

Probably that, as the major villain of the arc, but in addition, it also acts like a transition to allow the Order to leave the rest of the trip to Firmament offscreen.

[iron_sages]

I am going to post this twice (The other one in the welcome thread) because I really want this idea to at least be considered. I would love to see a comic run, even a short one, about General Tarquin's cleric, Minister Malack.

Except that I would like to see it set in the way back machine when he was still alive and reaching into his early years as a Vampire and showing his move from Barbarian chief to Cleric. I think that the character is immensely interesting and would love to see more of him, especially knowing what happens to him.

It could even include the killing of his children and some of the adventures of the team that Tarquin lead.

[2D8HP]

Hmm. Not sure what this strip is adding to the plot. Character development for Hel?


With the strips coming this awesomely fast, who cares!

Praise to Mr. Burlew for continuing awesomicity!

But I do hope for some more emphasis back on the MAIN PLOT, that is the blossoming romance of The Belkster and V-Rad.

Perhaps Scruffy and Blackwing need to intercede?

[B. Dandelion]

Hmm. Not sure what this strip is adding to the plot. Character development for Hel?

Clues about what happened all that time ago. Hints about how World 1.0 worked. Reference to how possibly tenuous even the new agreement between gods is. I'm definitely hoping this particular scenario plays out for a few more strips just to get some more of that, because I'm legitimately fascinated.

[Kish]

It actually does more than that; it sets up that Odin's rules CAN be broken. This is the second time (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1023.html) they've alluded to that being a possibility. Doing so is currently more trouble for Hel than it's worth, thus she is trying to abuse loopholes instead, but could that change? If you think about it, in addition to being very petulant, she has little to lose here.
She has potentially everything to lose. Right now she can scheme to increase her power, and even potentially become the head of the pantheon. If she establishes that she doesn't respect the gods' rules, Odin can deny anyone who helps her the ability to use magic at all, Loki can randomly light every undead creature in the North on fire, Thor can persecute them with storms and laugh when an undead cleric casts Control Weather...

[Themrys]

Thrym is coming across as really pathetic. " ... and then we could be alone ...". Dude, she's using you, she told you she's using you, and she treats you with open contempt. Do you only have a demi-spine? Insist on better! Or, in the evil underling tradition, wreak a terrible vengeance by betraying Hel at a key moment. I'm down with that.


Well, he is pathetic.
The kind of guy who would whine about being friendzoned when a woman told him from the start that she doesn't see him as potential boyfriend.

(I must applaud the Giant for portraying this kind of man so accurately. It is all there. The sneaky attempts to get her alone, the empty flattery, the clinging to the delusion that she's attracted to him despite her saying otherwise ... I'd pity the woman who has to endure him if it wasn't Hel who brought this onto herself.)

[LibraryOgre]

Is that Durkon's soul scurrying off the seat (panels 2, 3, & 4)?

[Keltest]

Is that Durkon's soul scurrying off the seat (panels 2, 3, & 4)?

Not unless the vampire died and his beard went prematurely grey.

[ORione]

Is that Durkon's soul scurrying off the seat (panels 2, 3, & 4)?


Not unless the vampire died and his beard went prematurely grey.

And not unless dying in combat to protect your allies is considered a dishonorable death.

[Anarion]

What I'm most curious about here is why we're getting this insight into Hel at this point. Presumably the Giant is setting up a transition to the Order landing their airship or some other scene, but I'm curious why Hel as a character and this wager with the gods is worth focus here. There's no way to know until a bunch more of the story is out and we can go back and look at how it fits into the pacing overall, but I am feeling surprised at this point that Hel herself is featuring this much as a villain.


Is that Durkon's soul scurrying off the seat (panels 2, 3, & 4)?

Yes, you do need to get new glasses. :smallwink:

[Unoriginal]

What I'm most curious about here is why we're getting this insight into Hel at this point. Presumably the Giant is setting up a transition to the Order landing their airship or some other scene, but I'm curious why Hel as a character and this wager with the gods is worth focus here. There's no way to know until a bunch more of the story is out and we can go back and look at how it fits into the pacing overall, but I am feeling surprised at this point that Hel herself is featuring this much as a villain.


It's a classic "focus before the fall" setup, I'd say. It allows us to get to know more about the situation and the different actors to make this arc's conclusion more interesting and multi-layered.

Same way we got to spend a few pages with the Vector Legion before they personally started pursuing the Order.

[Deepbluediver]

The bet was with Thor. Comic 1000, Subcomic 2, panel 4. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1000.html)

Loki was helping Thor to stop her representative from getting there.
Do we know exactly what the terms of that bet were? Is it the reason Hel only get the dishonorable dwarven dead and Thor gets all the rest? That seems like the most straightforward explanation I think, but it leaves holes large enough to drive a planet through.

[Kish]

Those being?

[MReav]

Do we know exactly what the terms of that bet were? Is it the reason Hel only get the dishonorable dwarven dead and Thor gets all the rest? That seems like the most straightforward explanation I think, but it leaves holes large enough to drive a planet through.

Thor doesn't get the rest. The rest go to their respective gods/alignments. And why are you quoting me regarding the terms of the bet? My only contribution to the part you quoted was a rebuke to someone claiming that Hel made the bet with Loki.

[Peelee]

Not unless the vampire died and his beard went prematurely grey.

Today I learned Durkon's beard isn't grey.

[mouser9169]

What I'm most curious about here is why we're getting this insight into Hel at this point. Presumably the Giant is setting up a transition to the Order landing their airship or some other scene, but I'm curious why Hel as a character and this wager with the gods is worth focus here. There's no way to know until a bunch more of the story is out and we can go back and look at how it fits into the pacing overall, but I am feeling surprised at this point that Hel herself is featuring this much as a villain.


Hel is the mastermind behind everything Durkula. She's the Tarquin of this book.

[woweedd]

Thor doesn't get the rest. The rest go to their respective gods/alignments. And why are you quoting me regarding the terms of the bet? My only contribution to the part you quoted was a rebuke to someone claiming that Hel made the bet with Loki.
Hence all the conversion stuff. You wnat more souls to worship you so they'll go to your afterlife and boost your power. Presumably, souls who didn't particularly favor any God, like Roy, just go to the generic Afterlife for their alignment and, consequently, provide power to ALL Gods of their Alignment.

[KorvinStarmast]

"And you won't have clerics! You can keep all of your power, no need to share any with those ungrateful beings that'll only use it to cure your diseases!"
Yeah, having clerics working for you can have side effects.
Even in the afterlife, the male dwarves are always bald. I guess if they weren't, there'd be Hel toupee. :smallbiggrin:

But I do hope for some more emphasis back on the MAIN PLOT, that is the blossoming romance of The Belkster and V-Rad. Perhaps Scruffy and Blackwing need to intercede? Uh, what?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Uh, what?

I believe 2D8HP is engaging in pre-emptrive sarcasm strike against anyone that complains about the comic "not getting on with the main plot", which you may have noticed has been a bit of a recurring theme amongst people dissatisfied with the current pace/plot of the comic.

GW

[Psyren]

The problem, IIRC; was insufficient low-level cannon fodder for clerics to level up on. If nothing else, it'd made undead even more desirable to hunt down than in world 2.0, where you can hunt down goblins for easy XP.

But in 1.0, where are the undead coming from if there are no monsters? Undead are typically from dead adventurers and NPCs, rather than random spawns. It's a chicken and egg problem that 2.0's goblins and other lower-class monster races solved.


Is that Durkon's soul scurrying off the seat (panels 2, 3, & 4)?

We know where Durkon's soul is, and it's not in Hel's room.


She has potentially everything to lose. Right now she can scheme to increase her power, and even potentially become the head of the pantheon. If she establishes that she doesn't respect the gods' rules, Odin can deny anyone who helps her the ability to use magic at all, Loki can randomly light every undead creature in the North on fire, Thor can persecute them with storms and laugh when an undead cleric casts Control Weather...

I'm not sure about that. If the gods were capable of such cooperation/coordination, the Snarl would not exist in the first place. It seems to me that the Snarl is the only thing keeping them playing nice, but if the situation worsens - say, TDO is about to get control of a Gate - that the gods might say screw it anyway and start yanking on the threads once more.

Even more important is the story perspective; this is now the second time they've foreshadowed that simply breaking the rules is an option, however currently palatable. Why call that out if there is never going to be any danger of that happening? Giant could have simply established that those rules are inviolate for as long as 2.0 exists or something.

[Deathhappens]

Well mark the day in gilt and gold, is that title a Dire Straits reference? Why yes, I believe it is. :smallbiggrin:

[Grey_Wolf_c]

But in 1.0, where are the undead coming from if there are no monsters?

From the evil cleric's create dead spells, of course. Which would annoy their controllers and their gods when the good gods' followers destroyed them - thus why all gods were happy creating cannon fodder in 2.0: by creating a (supposedly god-free) targets for everyone's clerics to kill without having to deal with what god you were offending in the process.

GW

[Basement Cat]

Ahhhh, there's nothing like a delicious serving of exposition with a shot of humor to wash it down.

So Thor and Loki really screwed Hela over when the world was remade. She complained about it at the Godsmoot but now we're getting details. I wonder what benefits the other Western gods got out of the deal and why Hela signed onto it in the first place: She was clearly outwitted by Loki (I can't see Thor outwitting a radish) so her own father set her up to fail somehow.

I'm actually feeling sympathetic for the Northern Goddess of Death. Nice plot development.

[Sermil]

Well mark the day in gilt and gold, is that title a Dire Straits reference? Why yes, I believe it is. :smallbiggrin:

Ya, I was wondering about that. Can someone point me to the reference in the title?

[pendell]

Wow, another update!

Interesting artwork. Hel is continuing to earn points my book as least favorite villain in the entire strip. She's got all the whininess of a teenager with all the brutality and cruelty one would associate with a god of death. Though I daresay the Discworld version would be very unhappy with her.

Her total disgust for the dwarven souls in her charge -- as well as the way she throws herself into her seat without any concern for whether she squashes them or not -- show just what a petty, mean-spirited creature she is.

Thrym? Thrym is pathetic.

Here's a fanfiction I'd love to write : Belkar and Xykon, once banished from the prime material plane, team up to take Hel's place. So what if she's not their goddess? It's time for a cross-planar invasion.

Whaddaya say? Would the Belkster be a better death god?

I personally think he would do a ... Hel of a job. :smallbiggrin:

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Deathhappens]

Ya, I was wondering about that. Can someone point me to the reference in the title?

I could, of course, be mistaken, but I believe it's a reference to this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTP2RUD_cL0) song.

[Kish]

Ya, I was wondering about that. Can someone point me to the reference in the title?
Money For Nothing (https://play.google.com/music/preview/Temrlt7eldlubp5a3ny4boqf6wm?lyrics=1&utm_source=google&utm_medium=search&utm_campaign=lyrics&pcampaignid=kp-lyrics&u=0#).

[KorvinStarmast]

I believe 2D8HP is engaging in pre-emptrive sarcasm strike against anyone that complains about the comic "not getting on with the main plot", which you may have noticed has been a bit of a recurring theme amongst people dissatisfied with the current pace/plot of the comic. Since I am enjoying the ride, I guess I just ignore such complaints. Thanks for the pointer.

Well mark the day in gilt and gold, is that title a Dire Straits reference? Why yes, I believe it is. :smallbiggrin:Yeah. At least she has her scrying cauldron, so she won't whine that she wants her MTV (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAD6Obi7Cag). :smallcool:

[Keltest]

Today I learned Durkon's beard isn't grey.

While this could be my colorblindness speaking, it looks pretty brown to me.

[ORione]

While this could be my colorblindness speaking, it looks pretty brown to me.

Unless I'm color blind, or my computer's screen is faulty, the living Durkon had a brown beard, but his corpse has a grey one. Which is kind of weird, but not as weird as his armor turning darker.

[Skull the Troll]

Is it only the dishonored Dwarven dead that go to Hel? This has been bugging me for a while. We only saw Norse themed gods for the Northern Pantheon. What happens to a human farmer that dies of the plague? Do they go to Hel or somewhere else?

[2D8HP]

I believe 2D8HP is engaging in pre-emptrive....


Your detector works well GW, except my comment was not pre-emptive, it was in response to:


Hmm. Not sure what this strip is adding to the plot. Character development for Hel?


(Which is why I quoted it in my previous post)

[Jasdoif]

Is it only the dishonored Dwarven dead that go to Hel? This has been bugging me for a while. We only saw Norse themed gods for the Northern Pantheon. What happens to a human farmer that dies of the plague? Do they go to Hel or somewhere else?Probably somewhere else.
Hel is specifically the goddess of the dishonored dead, which requires a system of honor/dishonor that really only applies to the dwarves and those humans that choose to believe in such things. If Haley died of disease, she wouldn't go to Hel because she wouldn't believe that she had been dishonored.

[8BitNinja]

Is it just me, or is Hel going from malevolent to cranky?

[CowardlyPaladin]

Thrym can't seem to make up his mind whether he wants to pathetically keep trying to get Hel alone or actually snark at her about her developed position.

Why not both? Just because he has the hots for her doesn't mean he can't make fun of her

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Your detector works well GW, except my comment was not pre-emptive, it was in response to:

(Which is why I quoted it in my previous post)

But that was, like, three paragraphs above the sentence. You can't seriously expect me to remember something that long. :smalltongue:

(comment amended: pre-emptive stricken out)

GW

[georgie_leech]

Probably somewhere else.

After all, it's not like Roy went to the Realm of the God of Falling From Really High Places when he died.

[AnchoviePaste]

I'd give Hel the worship she doesn't deserve, but then, I'm into exactly that with villainesses.

[Themrys]

I don't understand Hel. If she wasn't so cruel to the souls in her realm, then the dwarves dying from disease would not be so desperate to pick fights with potted plants to evade that fate.

But one has to admit she was screwed over very unfairly; liver failure not counting as disease for the purpose of afterlife is very mean.

And she probably didn't think that being dishonoured was a matter of personal identification; she'd not have expected that anyone who just doesn't feel dishonoured (because they aren't a dwarf and don't have a concept of honour) doesn't go to her realm.

Otherwise, it would have been a very good deal. I mean, there are lots and lots of nasty people that could be considered dishonoured if someone neutral judged them.

But if they get to decide themselves, well, obviously she only gets those who feel dishonoured by no fault of their own, e.g. by having died in their beds instead of in a fight, and perhaps some few ones who did something they themselves consider dishonourable.

[Skull the Troll]

Probably somewhere else.

Awesome, thanks for the WOG! I hadn't read that one.

[JumboWheat01]

Today I learned Durkon's beard isn't grey.


While this could be my colorblindness speaking, it looks pretty brown to me.


Unless I'm color blind, or my computer's screen is faulty, the living Durkon had a brown beard, but his corpse has a grey one. Which is kind of weird, but not as weird as his armor turning darker.

Did a quick bit of photoshop magic go get the hex value of Durkon's beard in the very first strip and it was #83604a, which apparently is described as a "Mostly Desaturated Dark Orange." (http://www.colorhexa.com/83604a)

I'm horribly color blind, so it's up to you to decide if this is definitely a shade of brown or if Durkon was secretly a dull ginger.

[Jay R]

We now know that those are Death Giants with the fangs and purple skin. Which or may not closely follow the 3.5 stat block for death giants, because Rich Doesn't Care.

... because Rich Cares About the Story, Not the Rules.


Thrym is coming across as really pathetic. " ... and then we could be alone ...". Dude, she's using you, she told you she's using you, and she treats you with open contempt. Do you only have a demi-spine?

I don't think the spine is the body part in charge right now.

[AnchoviePaste]

Thrym is coming across as really pathetic. " ... and then we could be alone ...". Dude, she's using you, she told you she's using you, and she treats you with open contempt.

Ehhhhhhhh, some people want exactly that. There's a reason that one of the lines in Sweet Dreams by Eurythmics is "Some of them want to get used by you" and it's followed with "Some of them want to be abused."

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Hel definitely seems very bitter. To me, this strip seems to hint that we might be getting more background on the original wager and Hel's plan in the next few strips.

[Unoriginal]

I don't understand Hel. If she wasn't so cruel to the souls in her realm, then the dwarves dying from disease would not be so desperate to pick fights with potted plants to evade that fate. .

And if Asmodeus wasn't Lawful Evil, a lot more people would like going to the Nine Hells.

The point is that it's not because a nasty person is a god that they'll act nicer to the people who end up in their domain.



And she probably didn't think that being dishonoured was a matter of personal identification; she'd not have expected that anyone who just doesn't feel dishonoured (because they aren't a dwarf and don't have a concept of honour) doesn't go to her realm.

Otherwise, it would have been a very good deal. I mean, there are lots and lots of nasty people that could be considered dishonoured if someone neutral judged them.

I think she gets any dwarf that is dishonored according to the dwarven standards, provided the dwarf is of the right faith.

It's not so much their own perception of who they are that decide where they go and more them allowing themselves to be judged according to the rules of honor.

[Matt620]

I'm really not interested in Hel's whining. I hope this passes quickly.

[Peelee]

While this could be my colorblindness speaking, it looks pretty brown to me.

Nah, it's my colorblindness. Always thought it was a dark grey-ish color. Maybe brownish grey. I dunno. I'm bad at colors.

I'm really not interested in Hel's whining. I hope this passes quickly.

Color me surprised.

[Ironsmith]

Did a quick bit of photoshop magic go get the hex value of Durkon's beard in the very first strip and it was #83604a, which apparently is described as a "Mostly Desaturated Dark Orange." (http://www.colorhexa.com/83604a)

I'm horribly color blind, so it's up to you to decide if this is definitely a shade of brown or if Durkon was secretly a dull ginger.

There's an even simpler explanation... as a corpse, Durkon no longer produces any kind of pigment that would normally color out these things, hence why he's also significantly paler. Living Durkon has a skin tone that's about on par with Rodriguez (seen in the last few panels here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0805.html)), whereas HPOH is only a few shades away from being white (compare to the priest of Odin (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1000.html)). Since a similar effect causes grey hair IRL, as well, it's not too much of a stretch to assume that this is simply a byproduct of being a corpse reanimated with negative energy. (Now, the armor, I have no explanation for, aside from maybe being a secondary effect of whatever spell Malack used to speed up the vamping process.)

[JoeyTheNeko]

in the previous world, people offered thanks to her when they didn't die?
sounds like she's not always been evil. or at least, had some respectability as a deity.

[Kantaki]

in the previous world, people offered thanks to her when they didn't die?
sounds like she's not always been evil. or at least, had some respectability as a deity.

I think they were „thanking” her for not dying the same way someone would „thank” a bully for not beating them up.

[Jasdoif]

Color me surprised.Surprised is a lavender, right?

[Peelee]

Surprised is a lavender, right?

That's a shade of grey, I believe.

[Unoriginal]

That's a shade of grey, I believe.

Those makes people angry, I'm told

[The Pilgrim]

Hel is looking more and more to me like a disgrunted inmature RPG player who keeps complaining about how powerful was her character in the previous campaign they played, and how unfair is that she didn't get to roll as many 18's this time during character creation.

[Ruck]

"And you won't have clerics! You can keep all of your power, no need to share any with those ungrateful beings that'll only use it to cure your diseases!"

GW
She's not forbidden from having clerics as I understand it; she's just been unsuccessful raising any undead to a level where they can function in that capacity.


I'm really not interested in Hel's whining. I hope this passes quickly.

"When the Order of the Stick isn't on the screen, everyone else should be standing around asking, 'Where's the Order of the Stick?'"

[Valley]

"When the Order of the Stick isn't on the screen, everyone else should be standing around asking, 'Where's the Order of the Stick?'"

Very funny Homer.

I assume Hel can't have any Clerics because nobody likes her. I mean, she is death, and runs the underworld. Hell does not need public relations. How do you put a spin on that? Worship me or your death will be long and painful? Makes her sound like the Mafia. Or the God of the Old Testament.

And if you worship her...you go to Hell to shine Hel's throne? I'm confused. :smallconfused:

[MReav]

She's not forbidden from having clerics as I understand it; she's just been unsuccessful raising any undead to a level where they can function in that capacity.

As confirmed here. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0962.html)

Hel needed a high-level undead cleric, and got it in the form of Durkon.

[Unoriginal]

As confirmed here. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0962.html)

Hel needed a high-level undead cleric, and got it in the form of Durkon.

Well she didn't need an undead cleric specifically. It's just no mortals would do it.

[Deepbluediver]

Thor doesn't get the rest. The rest go to their respective gods/alignments. And why are you quoting me regarding the terms of the bet? My only contribution to the part you quoted was a rebuke to someone claiming that Hel made the bet with Loki.
I try to quote the last post relevant to whatever I'm discussing or asking questions about so it's easier for people to follow the conversation. The question was supposed to be for everyone, and I quoted you because I thought you might be more familiar with it since you knew where to find the link.

[pendell]

Well she didn't need an undead cleric specifically. It's just no mortals would do it.

Given how mortals in OOTS world will worship anything, including Giggles and Banjo, I think it less likely that mortals will not serve as her cleric so much as they can not. It looks to me as if she's not allowed to have living clerics under the terms of whatever her agreement is with Thor and Loki.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[danielxcutter]

Well, Hel is super petty and Evil and I won't be really sorry when her plans go up in flaming ruins that would make Tarquin's ELAN scene look like a candle, but it does look like she's pretty salty due to getting the short end of the stick, and that, at least, I'm not really blaming her for. It doesn't justify anything, of course.

[Wowlock]

My God.... Hel was the first milennial....Well the equivelent of it for her world..

[MReav]

Where did Hel's Death Giants come from? Death Giants according to DND lore are living beings, albeit ones who are heavy into the consumption of souls.

I'm going to theorize, but feel free to skip.

They or their ancestors were originally gifts from Thrym that Hel mutated towards her own ends. Nowadays, they are glad to be in her service, since watching their old/ancestral god like this is embarrassing.

[ti'esar]

The more we see of Hel complaining about how unfair her situation is, the more convinced I am that her situation is actually perfectly fair. I strongly suspect that Thor and Loki teamed up to con her with this deal specifically because she was a petty and malevolent member of the pantheon who would be a danger to everyone else's worshipers if not kept in check.

[GreatWyrmGold]

So... the main job of her clerics is to be her PR team.
Isn't that true for all gods?



We do know that nobody living actually worships Hel, but I don't remember if it was ever explained why that's the case.
I thought it was obvious. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EverybodyHatesHades)



I'd pity the woman who has to endure [Thrym] if it wasn't Hel who brought this onto herself.
Rule 1 of villainy: My Legions of Terror will have helmets with clear plexiglass visors, not face-concealing ones.
But I'm pretty sure some form of "never turn down an easy ally" is somewhere on the list.



Is it just me, or is Hel going from malevolent to cranky?
When you get down to it, they're pretty similar. Both are taking out your inner turmoil on other people for no real reason, the main difference being scale.

[MReav]

(I'd pity the woman who has to endure him if it wasn't Hel who brought this onto herself.)

Well, going by mythology, Thrym is so desperate to get some, he'll overlook the fact that the girl has gotten even more muscles, grown a foot, and managed to grow a beard since he last saw her.

[georgie_leech]

Well, going by mythology, Thrym is so desperate to get some, he'll overlook the fact that the girl has gotten even more muscles, grown a foot, and managed to grow a beard since he last saw her.

I don't know which is funnier, that they thought they could disguise Thor with a wedding dress, or that it worked. :smallamused:

[danielxcutter]

I don't know which is funnier, that they thought they could disguise Thor with a wedding dress, or that it worked. :smallamused:

Hmm... did the myth say that it was just that, or did they use magic? Disguise magic is often effective, especially when counter-measures aren't as common as True Seeing is in most D&D worlds.

[Keltest]

Hmm... did the myth say that it was just that, or did they use magic? Disguise magic is often effective, especially when counter-measures aren't as common as True Seeing is in most D&D worlds.

I want to say that Loki was involved, because of course he was, but I'm not certain how much.

[danielxcutter]

I want to say that Loki was involved, because of course he was, but I'm not certain how much.

I dunno, I don't remember any mention of that... though I won't be surprised if he was.

[Yendor]

I want to say that Loki was involved, because of course he was, but I'm not certain how much.

I believe he was there, making full use of his Bluff skill.

Actually, now I'm hoping we get a flashback to that in the strip.

[2D8HP]

I want to say that Loki was involved, because of course he was, but I'm not certain how much.


It was Loki's idea IIRC.

[GreatWyrmGold]

I believe he was there, making full use of his Bluff skill.
I believe the myths specifically mention some of the bluffing done (e.g, "Freya's only eating so much because she's been so anxious about this wedding that she hasn't eaten in days"). They don't say if he drank a glibness potion first or not, though.

[MReav]

I believe the myths specifically mention some of the bluffing done (e.g, "Freya's only eating so much because she's been so anxious about this wedding that she hasn't eaten in days"). They don't say if he drank a glibness potion first or not, though.

He's the god of trickery. He sweats potions of glibness.

[GrayGriffin]

I believe Loki was disguised as a bridesmaid as well.

EDIT: Also, as a dog owner, I can empathize a bit with Hel in the first panel. That's pretty much how I talk to my dog all the time.

[Alex Warlorn]

Is this guy hoping that if he proves himself useful enough that over the course of eternity that Hel will grow to love him?

And this brings up, did Hel actually DO anything when the world was being forged? Or did she just sit on her butt letting the rest of divinity do the baking and then wanted 'her share' that she never actually earned?

[Rogar Demonblud]

Unknown, but the plethora of undead suggest she did some work.

[Manty5]

Now listen my clerics, that's the way you do it.
Tell people to beg me when they got dis-ease.
That ain't workin'... that's the way you do it.
Getcher worship for nothin' and your souls for free.

[dtilque]

Did a quick bit of photoshop magic go get the hex value of Durkon's beard in the very first strip and it was #83604a, which apparently is described as a "Mostly Desaturated Dark Orange." (http://www.colorhexa.com/83604a)

I'm horribly color blind, so it's up to you to decide if this is definitely a shade of brown or if Durkon was secretly a dull ginger.

Dark orange = brown. So does dark yellow and dark several-other-colors like peach and tan.

[georgie_leech]

It was Loki's idea IIRC.

The version I'm familiar with had it be Heimdall's idea, but Loki was the "maidservant" explaining away all the reasons that this is totally Freya and certainly not Thor.

[Wildroses]

Help is coming across as pathetic to me. She obviously desperately wants to be loved but doesn't realise love is not a one way street. Nobody is going to love her if she doesn't give them a reason to.

And it's pathetic because there is a guy standing right next to her who is obviously desperately waiting for her to give him the smallest reason to shower her in love but she keeps pushing him away.

I am hoping Thrym gets fed up and joins the side of good simply because Hel hath no fury like a frost giant scorned. He can't take his vote back but he can order his Frost Giants to help the heroes on their quest.

[The_Weirdo]

You know, it seems to me that the dwarven gods need to be taken down for a system where any dwarf that doesn't die in battle (or something to that effect) has this to expect for an eternity.

[The_Weirdo]

Help is coming across as pathetic to me. She obviously desperately wants to be loved but doesn't realise love is not a one way street. Nobody is going to love her if she doesn't give them a reason to.

And it's pathetic because there is a guy standing right next to her who is obviously desperately waiting for her to give him the smallest reason to shower her in love but she keeps pushing him away.

I am hoping Thrym gets fed up and joins the side of good simply because Hel hath no fury like a frost giant scorned. He can't take his vote back but he can order his Frost Giants to help the heroes on their quest.

He's Evil, he's pathetic and the Order has no reason to trust the frost giants that happen to still draw breath. Might be nice, but ain't gonna happen.

[a_flemish_guy]

It was Loki's idea IIRC.

not only was it his idea but it was penance for him being the guy/god responsible for the giants stealing mjolnir in the first place

I can just imagine how that went

"okay, my bad but I'll make it up to you, I have a plan to get your piece of iron on a stick back, it involves you in a dress, in fact that was the skeleton of the plan, I build the rest of it up around it"

also no, loki wasn't there disguised as bridesmaid, he was there as as representative of the gods so he was actually dressed normal (which would have made thor more furious)

also the first plan was to give in to the giant and have freyya marry him, upon proposing this to her, the noteable sweet goddess flew in such a tantrum that having the noteably proud and hotheaded (even for a norse god) thor dressing up in drag and having his enemy act sweet upon him was the safer option for everyone involved

[ratfox]

Evidence continues to mount for my "immature teen emo angsty death goddess" theory.

That's unfair, I think. She's not emo, she just looks that way.

[yldenfrei]

I'm inclined to think this comic is designed to foreshadow that sometime in the end game a god or two will actually break the rules for maximum climactic tension.

[Wildroses]

He's Evil, he's pathetic and the Order has no reason to trust the frost giants that happen to still draw breath. Might be nice, but ain't gonna happen.

Yeah, I was thinking it would be behind the scenes help. It would be hilariously ironic if getting to the final battle was super easy for the heroes because the Frost Giants were sneaking ahead to clear the path of hazards.

[ti'esar]

I'm inclined to think this comic is designed to foreshadow that sometime in the end game a god or two will actually break the rules for maximum climactic tension.

I'm sort of wondering the same thing.

[Shoelessgdowar]

Actually, I don't think Hel's lack of clerics was directly part of the scam. As we have seen, she is perfectly capable of imbuing clerical powers in minions if she chooses to, its just that Hel is a Bad Guy in a world full of Heroes, so she cant actually establish a church because people keep breaking her toys. We do know that nobody living actually worships Hel, but I don't remember if it was ever explained why that's the case.


Something prevents her from having living beings as clerics. Whatever it is, it is unlikely to have been carried over from the previous world, since she had clerics then, and it is likely the undead were as delicious morsels of XP then as they are now. Therefore, what stops her from having living clerics (and probably living worshipers of any kind) happened in the new world, which suggests it was part of the wager.

GW


Thor doesn't get the rest. The rest go to their respective gods/alignments. And why are you quoting me regarding the terms of the bet? My only contribution to the part you quoted was a rebuke to someone claiming that Hel made the bet with Loki.


Is it only the dishonored Dwarven dead that go to Hel? This has been bugging me for a while. We only saw Norse themed gods for the Northern Pantheon. What happens to a human farmer that dies of the plague? Do they go to Hel or somewhere else?


I don't understand Hel. If she wasn't so cruel to the souls in her realm, then the dwarves dying from disease would not be so desperate to pick fights with potted plants to evade that fate.

But one has to admit she was screwed over very unfairly; liver failure not counting as disease for the purpose of afterlife is very mean.

And she probably didn't think that being dishonoured was a matter of personal identification; she'd not have expected that anyone who just doesn't feel dishonoured (because they aren't a dwarf and don't have a concept of honour) doesn't go to her realm.

Otherwise, it would have been a very good deal. I mean, there are lots and lots of nasty people that could be considered dishonoured if someone neutral judged them.

But if they get to decide themselves, well, obviously she only gets those who feel dishonoured by no fault of their own, e.g. by having died in their beds instead of in a fight, and perhaps some few ones who did something they themselves consider dishonourable.


Given how mortals in OOTS world will worship anything, including Giggles and Banjo, I think it less likely that mortals will not serve as her cleric so much as they can not. It looks to me as if she's not allowed to have living clerics under the terms of whatever her agreement is with Thor and Loki.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

I will try to explain.

Northern Pantheon has an Honor Rule instead of Alignment system.

Honorable Death is Death in Battle (including battling trees if you are a Dwarf, but that is OotSverse based), heroic deed, or by your Liver's Heroic Fight to battle alcohol (last one is OotSverse exclusively).

Dishonorable death is disease, laziness, or non-combat and non-alcohol related.

Now, D&D based systems require combat to get XP to level, ergo to become a Higher Level Priest, you have to do battle, but if you die in battle, you will have an "Honorable" Death and go to Valhalla with all of Thor, Odin, Loki, Balder, Freya, Bragi, Tyr, Idunn, Frigga, Hermod, etc.'s Worshippers where you will spend your entire afterlife being mocked, humiliated, and if OotSverse Valhalla us anything like classic Norse Valhalla, everyday from Dawn til Dusk you will be beaten on by all of them.

Undead have no Souls to go to Valhalla, so they're better suited to be Hel's Priests, as being a Mortal Priest is either pointless (you dedicate yourself and then die from inactivity so you don't risk going to Valhalla) or counter-intuitive (you fight to level up, then die and go to Valhalla, both failing Hel and ending up an eternal plaything for all your enemies).

Hel could have a mortal Priest, but that would be stupid of the Priest.

This leads to no Churches, no worshippers starting suicide pacts (definitely a great way to not die in battle), and few mortals ending up in Hel with Hel.

[skaddix]

Well that only partially explains it that explains it for Dwarves sure but there is no merit based system for Humans for instance who get sent to whatever afterlife best represents their Alignment. So really Dwarves get a raw deal compared to humans or other races that worship the northern pantheon. The question is though why cant Hela recruit some mortals, there is nothing specifically that suggest she needs Dwarves. Its simply the consequence of her bet with Loki and Thor where she is restricted to only being allowed the souls of dishonorable dwarven dead. So it seems there is also a clause that only allows undead for her priest. Part of which seems related to the fact that Vampires get a different soul from whatever was present before and Hela might have the power to insert that soul for all the Vampires in the North.

[Unoriginal]

Hmm... did the myth say that it was just that, or did they use magic?

Nope, just normal disguise.


I want to say that Loki was involved, because of course he was, but I'm not certain how much.

Loki was disguised as the bridesmaid.

Note that it was Heimdall's idea to put Thor in a dress and send him to be married. Loki just tagged along.


not only was it his idea but it was penance for him being the guy/god responsible for the giants stealing mjolnir in the first place

I can just imagine how that went

"okay, my bad but I'll make it up to you, I have a plan to get your piece of iron on a stick back, it involves you in a dress, in fact that was the skeleton of the plan, I build the rest of it up around it"

also no, loki wasn't there disguised as bridesmaid, he was there as as representative of the gods so he was actually dressed normal (which would have made thor more furious)

You're mixing it up with the time Loki helped a giant steal the Golden Apples of Immortality (in exchange of not getting killed).


Yes, the Jotunn stole a lot of things from Asgard, and Loki tended to be involved either in the problem, the solution, or both.

But gettin Mjolnir back it was Heimdall's idea and Loki also dressed up as a woma.



also the first plan was to give in to the giant and have freyya marry him, upon proposing this to her, the noteable sweet goddess flew in such a tantrum that having the noteably proud and hotheaded (even for a norse god) thor dressing up in drag and having his enemy act sweet upon him was the safer option for everyone involved

This is correct, however. Though I don't think calling Freya "sweet" is very accurate. And it was less tantrum and more "making the whole Asgard shake with her rage".

[Jay R]

Given how mortals in OOTS world will worship anything, including Giggles and Banjo, I think it less likely that mortals will not serve as her cleric so much as they can not. It looks to me as if she's not allowed to have living clerics under the terms of whatever her agreement is with Thor and Loki.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

A living cleric of Hel makes as much sense as a celibate cleric of a fertility goddess, or pacifist cleric of Ares or Tyr.

[JumboWheat01]

Dark orange = brown.

Great, now my already confused eyes are more confused. Well, whatever, it's not like the color of our favorite cleric's beard hair is really that important of a point, just a fun tangent.

[PH7]

Now listen my clerics, that's the way you do it.
Tell people to beg me when they got dis-ease.
That ain't workin'... that's the way you do it.
Getcher worship for nothin' and your souls for free.

Thank you! I was waiting for someone to post something like this.

[Lord Torath]

Huh. Even in the afterlife, the male dwarves are always bald. I guess if they weren't, there'd be Hel toupee.Why would there be hel toupees if they're not bald?


Now listen my clerics, that's the way you do it.
Tell people to beg me when they got dis-ease.
That ain't workin'... that's the way you do it.
Getcher worship for nothin' and your souls for free.Nice! Very nice! :smallcool:


Is that Durkon's soul scurrying off the seat (panels 2, 3, & 4)?
Unless I'm color blind, or my computer's screen is faulty, the living Durkon had a brown beard, but his corpse has a grey one. Which is kind of weird, but not as weird as his armor turning darker.
There's an even simpler explanation... as a corpse, Durkon no longer produces any kind of pigment that would normally color out these things, hence why he's also significantly paler. Living Durkon has a skin tone that's about on par with Rodriguez (seen in the last few panels here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0805.html)), whereas HPOH is only a few shades away from being white (compare to the priest of Odin (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1000.html)). Since a similar effect causes grey hair IRL, as well, it's not too much of a stretch to assume that this is simply a byproduct of being a corpse reanimated with negative energy. (Now, the armor, I have no explanation for, aside from maybe being a secondary effect of whatever spell Malack used to speed up the vamping process.)I'm pretty sure that's not Durkon's soul. As The Giant has said elsewhere, there's only so many hair (or beard) styles you can show in a stick-figure comic. This is just the soul of another bald-but-bearded dwarf, one who probably died from old age (hence the grey beard). As others have pointed out, Durkon's death was not without honor, so Hel does not get his soul when it goes to its final destination. Plus, I'm pretty sure Durkon's soul is still bound and trapped inside his own body (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0946.html). It was not too long ago (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1007.html), anyway.

[Peelee]

Why would there be hel toupees if they're not bald?

If they weren't bald, it would clearly be because they were wearing the Hel toupees. Clearly. Totally not pulling that out of my butt because the illogic was suddenly questioned. Real Dwarf HairTM. Her business model has low supply.

[Jasdoif]

If they weren't bald, it would clearly be because they were wearing the Hel toupees. Clearly.I thought you meant Hel would be providing toupees for her death giants, made from Real Dwarf HairTM.

[Peelee]

I thought you meant Hel would be providing toupees for her death giants, made from Real Dwarf HairTM.

I'm going with that now.

[Jay R]

Why would there be hel toupees if they're not bald?

You have the causation backwards. If there were Hel toupees, they wouldn't appear bald.

[Ruck]

I will try to explain.

Northern Pantheon has an Honor Rule instead of Alignment system.

Honorable Death is Death in Battle (including battling trees if you are a Dwarf, but that is OotSverse based), heroic deed, or by your Liver's Heroic Fight to battle alcohol (last one is OotSverse exclusively).

Dishonorable death is disease, laziness, or non-combat and non-alcohol related.

Now, D&D based systems require combat to get XP to level, ergo to become a Higher Level Priest, you have to do battle, but if you die in battle, you will have an "Honorable" Death and go to Valhalla with all of Thor, Odin, Loki, Balder, Freya, Bragi, Tyr, Idunn, Frigga, Hermod, etc.'s Worshippers where you will spend your entire afterlife being mocked, humiliated, and if OotSverse Valhalla us anything like classic Norse Valhalla, everyday from Dawn til Dusk you will be beaten on by all of them.

Undead have no Souls to go to Valhalla, so they're better suited to be Hel's Priests, as being a Mortal Priest is either pointless (you dedicate yourself and then die from inactivity so you don't risk going to Valhalla) or counter-intuitive (you fight to level up, then die and go to Valhalla, both failing Hel and ending up an eternal plaything for all your enemies).

Hel could have a mortal Priest, but that would be stupid of the Priest.

This leads to no Churches, no worshippers starting suicide pacts (definitely a great way to not die in battle), and few mortals ending up in Hel with Hel.

I think from word of Giant that it's not the Northern Pantheon entirely, just the dwarves, who operate on the system of honor; additionally, dwarves who do die with honor don't necessarily go to Valhalla, but to the plane that does match their alignment (whereas Hel gets the dishonored dwarven dead no matter what their alignment was in real life).

[Keltest]

I think from word of Giant that it's not the Northern Pantheon entirely, just the dwarves, who operate on the system of honor; additionally, dwarves who do die with honor don't necessarily go to Valhalla, but to the plane that does match their alignment (whereas Hel gets the dishonored dwarven dead no matter what their alignment was in real life).

Indeed. Hel is the keeper of all dishonored dead in the North. Its just that only dwarves have a cultural system of honor that actually results in any actual risk of going to hel for just living your life normally.

[The MunchKING]

You know, it seems to me that the dwarven gods need to be taken down for a system where any dwarf that doesn't die in battle (or something to that effect) has this to expect for an eternity.

To be fair to them, it seems like Thor uses every excuse he can to claim they weren't REALLY dishonored, so Hel has very few people probably.

[8BitNinja]

Huh. Even in the afterlife, the male dwarves are always bald. I guess if they weren't, there'd be Hel toupee.

*CSI Miami YEAHHH*

[ironkid]

Thyrm seems not only creepy, but kind of an idiot. However, his priests seemed very dedicated, and even the feminist giantess seemed very determined to do his will, so he can't be that bad of a deity.

If I was him, I'd ditch Hel and try my luck with one of the ice giantess.

[woweedd]

You know, it seems to me that the dwarven gods need to be taken down for a system where any dwarf that doesn't die in battle (or something to that effect) has this to expect for an eternity.
Rich has made it very clear that the Dwarven system is very much meant to come across as unfair and unjust. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19828724&postcount=114)

[JennTora]

On the subject of whose idea it was to stick Thor in a dress, I've read a version where it was heimdall's idea, a version where it was loki's, a version where it was freya's (and it was more of a perfectly justifiable angry response to the other deities' suggestion that she give in to Thrym to get mjollnir back.) And a version where it was actually Thor's idea. Oddly, the last one was the only one that involved a spell to make Thor actually look like her instead of it just being Thor in a dress.

[Kish]

Thyrm seems not only creepy, but kind of an idiot. However, his priests seemed very dedicated, and even the feminist giantess seemed very determined to do his will, so he can't be that bad of a deity.
It's interesting to look at this idea in the context of Hel's complaint in this strip. I doubt the implication is that she used to be a supportive deity and the callousness and sadism she shows toward the souls in her realm is something new, but now she lacks clerics/propaganda ministers, and so no one living worships her.

Similarly, Thrym could be just exactly as bad as he looks; the devotion of his worshipers only indicates that that's not what his clerics tell the frost giants about him.

[woweedd]

It's interesting to look at this idea in the context of Hel's complaint in this strip. I doubt the implication is that she used to be a supportive deity and the callousness and sadism she shows toward the souls in her realm is something new, but now she lacks clerics/propaganda ministers, and so no one living worships her.

Similarly, Thrym could be just exactly as bad as he looks; the devotion of his worshipers only indicates that that's not what his clerics tell the frost giants about him.
That, or Frost Giants themselves are a Mostly Evil race, who are just fine with Thrym's ways, because his Evil happens to be biased towards the expansion and power of the Frost Giant race. Same way the undead love Hel.

[danielxcutter]

Now listen my clerics, that's the way you do it.
Tell people to beg me when they got dis-ease.
That ain't workin'... that's the way you do it.
Getcher worship for nothin' and your souls for free.

I'm fairly sure this is to do with the title and I still have no idea what it actually is. Could someone explain?

[Kish]

I linked the lyrics (https://genius.com/Dire-straits-money-for-nothing-lyrics) of the song the title refers to when you asked before, and someone else linked a YouTube video; I'm not sure what else you're looking for.

[danielxcutter]

I linked the lyrics (https://genius.com/Dire-straits-money-for-nothing-lyrics) of the song the title refers to when you asked before, and someone else linked a YouTube video; I'm not sure what else you're looking for.

Sorry; I think I must have missed them.

[KorvinStarmast]

I'm really not interested in Hel's whining. I hope this passes quickly. For once, I agree with you somewhat. I think this is a version of "Xykon / Redcloak" scenes where we see a bit of what the bad guys are doing.

But yeah, foreshadow/set up trouble but don't give the store away by revealing too much before the Order gets to the next scene of conflict.
Rich has generally come through in such cases, so I'm not troubled.

[Unoriginal]

Thyrm seems not only creepy, but kind of an idiot. However, his priests seemed very dedicated, and even the feminist giantess seemed very determined to do his will, so he can't be that bad of a deity.

The worshipers' devotion don't indicate how great a deity is to have as patron deity. The clerics of Thyrm did say that the giants were going to thrown in a very unpleasant afterlife (for them) if they failed their mission, after all.




If I was him, I'd ditch Hel and try my luck with one of the ice giantess.

Knowing gods, he's probably doing the second even when he does the first.

[woweedd]

For once, I agree with you somewhat. I think this is a version of "Zykon / Redcloak" scenes where we see a bit of what the bad guys are doing.

But yeah, foreshadow/set up trouble but don't give the store away by revealing too much before the Order gets to the next scene of conflict.
Rich has generally come through in such cases, so I'm not troubled.
Who is Zykon?

[KorvinStarmast]

Who is Zykon? I have corrected the spelling to Xykon


Now listen my clerics, that's the way you do it.
Tell people to beg me when they got dis-ease.
That ain't workin'... that's the way you do it.
Getcher worship for nothin' and your souls for free.
Love it.
Sorry; I think I must have missed them.
Here ya go: Money For Nuthin' (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAD6Obi7Cag)

This one with an all star cast: Clapton, Knopfler, Sting, Phil Collins (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CB9OrGZ7-c).

[woweedd]

I have corrected the spelling to Xykon

Love it.
Here ya go: Money For Nuthin' (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAD6Obi7Cag)
How did you even misspell it in the first place? This is a textual-based medium. Auto-correct, i'm guessing?

[Vio]

So we learn that characters like her not receiving unearned worship (except from guys like Thrym) was a problem in society
even before third wave feminism discovered it. :tongue:

[KorvinStarmast]

How did you even misspell it in the first place? This is a textual-based medium. Auto-correct, i'm guessing? Z is next to X on a keyboard.

[woweedd]

Z is next to X on a keyboard.
Ah, yes, well, I certainly cna't begrude taht. UNless I took 8 rnaks in HYpocrisy my last level-up.:smalltongue:
(POst deliberatly left unb-edited.)

[Kish]

Now I'm wondering why no one ever calls him Cykon.

[The_Weirdo]

To be fair to them, it seems like Thor uses every excuse he can to claim they weren't REALLY dishonored, so Hel has very few people probably.

That's still a VERY bad structure.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Or perhaps mistakes at other parts of the word? Xykom? Xyjon?

[The_Weirdo]

Rich has made it very clear that the Dwarven system is very much meant to come across as unfair and unjust. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19828724&postcount=114)

So... Maybe the dwarves need their own Redcloak? :smallbiggrin:

[danielxcutter]

Now I'm wondering why no one ever calls him Cykon.

I just checked and it's a lot easier to press the Z button by mistake as compared to C.

[woweedd]

So... Maybe the dwarves need their own Redcloak? :smallbiggrin:
Except Redcloak at least has A God on his side,

[Slaine000]

Guess I am being a nitpicker but does it bother anyone else that Hel does not have a half youthful face and half decayed/old? Pretty sure that is how she was always described in Norse myth.

[danielxcutter]

Guess I am being a nitpicker but does it bother anyone else that Hel does not have a half youthful face and half decayed/old? Pretty sure that is how she was always described in Norse myth.

Maybe the divide is top/bottom instead of left/right? I think some of the other guys were talking about that... I don't remember that well, though.

[LadyEowyn]

Maybe the divide is top/bottom instead of left/right? I think some of the other guys were talking about that... I don't remember that well, though.

That is indeed how she is described in Norse mythology. Above the waist, a beautiful woman; below the waist, a rotting corpse.

Try not to think about that in the context of Thrym's attraction to her...

[hamishspence]

That is indeed how she is described in Norse mythology. Above the waist, a beautiful woman; below the waist, a rotting corpse.


"half flesh-coloured, half blue/black" is the usual description. However, I can't see where it's stated that it's from the waist down, when I look it up.

[a_flemish_guy]

Nope, just normal disguise.



Loki was disguised as the bridesmaid.

Note that it was Heimdall's idea to put Thor in a dress and send him to be married. Loki just tagged along.



You're mixing it up with the time Loki helped a giant steal the Golden Apples of Immortality (in exchange of not getting killed).


Yes, the Jotunn stole a lot of things from Asgard, and Loki tended to be involved either in the problem, the solution, or both.

But gettin Mjolnir back it was Heimdall's idea and Loki also dressed up as a woma.



This is correct, however. Though I don't think calling Freya "sweet" is very accurate. And it was less tantrum and more "making the whole Asgard shake with her rage".

I just looked it up and you're entiarly correct, my excuses


I just checked and it's a lot easier to press the Z button by mistake as compared to C.

depends on the keyboard, most people her have a qwerty keyboard which has the C far from the X but with an azerty keyboard the C is right next to X


That is indeed how she is described in Norse mythology. Above the waist, a beautiful woman; below the waist, a rotting corpse.

Try not to think about that in the context of Thrym's attraction to her...

hel was described as one half-corpse and one half human, it was never revealed how the split was done

in fact most images made of her have the split down the middle, the first time I saw the split as top/bottom was in a webcomic which had as premise the norse gods as children with hel being portrayed as their babysitter who looked pretty normal but has a twist that her bottom was the part that was half corpse

[8BitNinja]

If I was him, I'd ditch Hel and try my luck with one of the ice giantess.

Taking the place of Zeus much?

[Cazero]

Taking the place of Zeus much?
Norse gods were doing it too. And other greek gods. Zeus is infamous for it because he one-upped them all with his wacky metamorphosis antics.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Now I'm wondering why no one ever calls him Cykon.

My off-the-top-of-my-head hypothesis: to type an 'x', a fast typist will use their middle finger. To type a capital 'x', you slide your hand sideways one spot to the shift key, and use the index finger. But if you aren't completely on the ball, you might just use the middle finger (that your brain associates to typing 'x'), meaning you end up typing a 'Z'. In that situation, typing a 'c' is quite hard - no finger naturally falls atop the 'c' key when holding shift - you need to voluntarily stretch your hand to it.


most people her have a qwerty keyboard which has the C far from the X
Incorrect: in qwerty keyboards, the lowest line starts with zxcv.

GW

[Peelee]

No love for Dvorak keyboards here, I see.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

No love for Dvorak keyboards here, I see.

Nor for the qwertz, colemak, maltron nor jcuken (http://mentalfloss.com/article/52483/6-non-qwerty-keyboard-layouts).

GW

[danielxcutter]

Let's be honest, most of us have never even seen a Dvorak keyboard, or heard about any of those others.

[Dr.Zero]

The worshipers' devotion don't indicate how great a deity is to have as patron deity. The clerics of Thyrm did say that the giants were going to thrown in a very unpleasant afterlife (for them) if they failed their mission, after all.

True, but, on the other hand, if his comment about the giants' effort wasn't only meant to appease Hel, but something he genuinely believes, he could be quite good as a God, too.

"I'm sorry my Lord, I failed to accomplish the task you have given me. I failed you. I'm ready for eternal punishment and anguish."
"Hey, dude, no worries. You gave it an honest try, that's what is really important. Today you will sit at my side in our frozen heaven!"
"I am so lucky to be one of your worshippers, Thyrm!"


While this seems quite reasonable for a God (a God who punishes who fails to accomplish a divine task -and dies trying- might create a deterrent to try at all), it seems anyway that Hel is of some other ideas about who fails at a given task.

[hamishspence]

Let's be honest, most of us have never even seen a Dvorak keyboard, or heard about any of those others.

Some of those names wouldn't be out of place in a sci-fi or fantasy setting though.

I could see Star Trek using "Dvorak" as the name of an alien species, for example.

[JumboWheat01]

I wasn't even aware there were other keyboards besides QWERTY and AZERTY before the others were mentioned.

[martianmister]

Oddly, the last one was the only one that involved a spell to make Thor actually look like her instead of it just being Thor in a dress.

Make sense to me. Thor would like to look beautiful, even if he has to wear a dress...

By the way, compared to myths, OotS version Hel is much more similar to Marvel's Hela.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-xqJh1DHQNDU/WQZ_lLJkWgI/AAAAAAAA5CA/YULwG3IfA-MKV8bqQg3JkQkA119RIn5WACLcB/s1600/thor189_4.jpg

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Some of those names wouldn't be out of place in a sci-fi or fantasy setting though.

I could see Star Trek using "Dvorak" as the name of an alien species, for example.

That would feel weird to me, although maybe it's just because I know the name Dvorak as a composer, not as a keyboard set up. It would be like naming an alien species Mozart. :smalltongue:

[Centaur]

Nor for the qwertz, colemak, maltron nor jcuken (http://mentalfloss.com/article/52483/6-non-qwerty-keyboard-layouts).

On Colemak, the bottom row still starts with zxcv, and that’s half of the whole point of Colemak.

[danielxcutter]

That would feel weird to me, although maybe it's just because I know the name Dvorak as a composer, not as a keyboard set up. It would be like naming an alien species Mozart. :smalltongue:

We named a bunch of planets after the Roman gods. That's not much farther.

[martianmister]

Xykon is miswritten as Zykon because they're homophones.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

We named a bunch of planets after the Roman gods. That's not much farther.

...Interesting point. I guess if the IAU opens up naming planets to the public again I'll have a few thoughts on who to submit. :smallbiggrin:

[Peelee]

That would feel weird to me, although maybe it's just because I know the name Dvorak as a composer, not as a keyboard set up. It would be like naming an alien species Mozart. :smalltongue:

Or like if you were a big history buff, and they named an alien species Romulans or Vulcans.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Or like if you were a big history buff, and they named an alien species Romulans or Vulcans.

Well, the Vulcan one makes sense because we tried to use that as an actual planet name back here on Earth. As for the Romulans, I got nothing. :smallredface:

Edit: Basically, planet names are very Earth-referential and I probably should have realized that before opening my big mouth. :smalltongue:

[Kish]

Officially, the Romulan homeworld (which they settled after being exiled from Vulcan) is one of two tidally locked planets. Humans named those planets Romulus and Remus. "Romulans" was never the Romulans' name for themselves, but what the English-speakers in the Federation called them, and accordingly a Universal Translator set up to translate everything into English translated the name for the Vulcans' unfriendly cousins into "Romulans" whenever anyone said it in a different language.

[Curupira]

Xykon is miswritten as Zykon because they're homophones.

:belkar: No, you're (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1043.html) a homophone!

(sorry, couldn't resist)

[KorvinStarmast]

Ah, yes, well, I certainly cna't begrude taht. UNless I took 8 rnaks in HYpocrisy my last level-up.:smalltongue:
(POst deliberatly left unb-edited.) Makes perfect sense to me. :smallbiggrin:

[Quebbster]

Make sense to me. Thor would like to look beautiful, even if he has to wear a dress...

By the way, compared to myths, OotS version Hel is much more similar to Marvel's Hela.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-xqJh1DHQNDU/WQZ_lLJkWgI/AAAAAAAA5CA/YULwG3IfA-MKV8bqQg3JkQkA119RIn5WACLcB/s1600/thor189_4.jpg

Ironically, Marvel's Hela was later revealed (by Norse myth nerd Walt Simonson I believe) to be half-dead too (the right half is the dead one), but her cloak suppresses this and gives her an ordinary look.
It will be quite interesting to see if this is bought up in Thor Ragnarok.

[danielxcutter]

:belkar: No, you're (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1043.html) a homophone!

(sorry, couldn't resist)

Argh, you beat me to it.

[dtilque]

Now I'm wondering why no one ever calls him Cykon.

The Cylons wouldn't like it.

[GreatWyrmGold]

He's the god of trickery. He sweats potions of glibness.
Ew.



Help is coming across as pathetic to me. She obviously desperately wants to be loved but doesn't realise love is not a one way street. Nobody is going to love her if she doesn't give them a reason to.

And it's pathetic because there is a guy standing right next to her who is obviously desperately waiting for her to give him the smallest reason to shower her in love but she keeps pushing him away.
In Hel's defense, just doing nice things to someone does not entitle you to their love (which should be obvious if they said you were just a resource (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1081.html)). In fact, this "Nice Guy" attitude is one of the things I and others mocked Thrym for earlier.



not only was it his idea but it was penance for him being the guy/god responsible for the giants stealing mjolnir in the first place
I can just imagine how that went
"okay, my bad but I'll make it up to you, I have a plan to get your piece of iron on a stick back, it involves you in a dress, in fact that was the skeleton of the plan, I build the rest of it up around it"
It seems to be Loki's main defense mechanism against being beaten to a pulp for his pranks. (And it's a lot more effective due to the number of times that he's done more good than his schemes did harm, like that time he stole Sif's hair and commissioned Mjolnir and other treasures, or that time he tricked a giant into building most of a wall for free).



[N]o finger naturally falls atop the 'c' key when holding shift - you need to voluntarily stretch your hand to it.
Am I the only person who uses their pinky to hit shift?



We named a bunch of planets after the Roman gods. That's not much farther.
Aside from the fact that planets aren't sentient and don't have names for themselves. It would be like if Europeans named Native American tribes after their favorite playwrights...erm, except that the people doing so should be aware of why treating other cultures as something you can claim by discovering is wrong.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Am I the only person who uses their pinky to hit shift?

My hypothesis assumed that the pinky was used to push shift. But the pinky is usually placed atop the 'a' during normal typing. When using the shift, you can either stretch your pinky and ring fingers sideways, or just shift the whole hand by one key (so that the ring finger now lies atop the 'a'). I do not know which method is more common, and I suspect most of us do one or the other at times.

GW

[JumboWheat01]

My hypothesis assumed that the pinky was used to push shift. But the pinky is usually placed atop the 'a' during normal typing. When using the shift, you can either stretch your pinky and ring fingers sideways, or just shift the whole hand by one key (so that the ring finger now lies atop the 'a'). I do not know which method is more common, and I suspect most of us do one or the other at times.

GW

According to my old typing classes back-in-the-day (we actually had to take those!) you are supposed to use the Right Shift to cap up left-hand keys and the Left Shift to do the same for right-hand keys, so fingers are supposed to remain where they are on that half.

Though I use my Left Shift for pretty much everything these days. I blame using a laptop keyboard, it's just easier to hit the Left Shift than the Right Shift, which is closer in size to the Enter key than the Caps Lock is to the Left Shift. When I use it, I just stretch my pinky. It's quite flexible, and enjoys being used instead of ignored.

[Unoriginal]

Pretty sure that is how she was always described in Norse myth.

Not really. It's a modern interpretation of the rather unclear and sparse description we have of her.


Xykon is miswritten as Zykon because they're homophones.

X and Z aren't pronounced the same, so no they're not homophones.


Norse gods were doing it too. And other greek gods. Zeus is infamous for it because he one-upped them all with his wacky metamorphosis antics.

Zeus's actually far from the most outlandish in that regard, it's just that his kids tended to be famous (or infamous), so everyone told their origine story like if it was the first movie of a superhero franchise (or reboot).

Loki used to transform into a milkmaid and have kids with mortal men, for exemple.


Officially, the Romulan homeworld (which they settled after being exiled from Vulcan) is one of two tidally locked planets. Humans named those planets Romulus and Remus. "Romulans" was never the Romulans' name for themselves, but what the English-speakers in the Federation called them, and accordingly a Universal Translator set up to translate everything into English translated the name for the Vulcans' unfriendly cousins into "Romulans" whenever anyone said it in a different language.

To be fair, not even the Vulcans knew that the Romulans were their unfriendly cousins when humans coined the term.


Funnily enough, there is a scene in Voyager where Tuvok, who is Vulcan, speaks with the hologram of Leonardo da Vinci and is surprised when told there is an island called "Vulcan"

[Peelee]

X and Z aren't pronounced the same, so no they're not homophones.


Nrxt time you have to spell "xylophone," use a Z. When someone says, "Hey that's wrong," say, "No it ain't. If you think that's wrong, you need to get your head Z-rayed." It's like X wasn't given enough to do, so they had to promise it more. Okay, you don't start a lot of words, but we'll give you a co-starring role in tic-tac-toe. And you will be associated with hugs and kisses. And you will mark the spot. And you will make writing Christmas easier. And incidentally, you will start xylophone. Are you happy, you ******* X!?!

X can make the Z sound. Also, now I'm wondering how you pronounce Xykon. "Ks-yuh-kahn" sounds kind of awkward, three consonants in a row, like that. Make X sound like Z, Y sound like I, and it's so much cleaner to pronounce. I think Start of Darkness addressed this as well.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

X can make the Z sound. Also, now I'm wondering how you pronounce Xykon. "Ks-yuh-kahn" sounds kind of awkward, three consonants in a row, like that. Make X sound like Z, Y sound like I, and it's so much cleaner to pronounce. I think Start of Darkness addressed this as well.

I can see Xykon pronounced in various ways:

Soft z: /Φaɪkon/ (This could have zykon and cykon as homophones)
Hard z: /zaɪkon/ (This could have zykon as homophone)
Soft x: /saɪkon/ (This could have Sykon as homophone)
Hard x: /ksaɪkon/

I happen to use the last one. Not sure why you think it has three consonants in a row, though.

ETA: I wonder if Mitch Hedberg spells fish as "ghoti" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9Q1cM7_ai4&list=PL96C35uN7xGLDEnHuhD7CTZES3KXFnwm0&index=12)?

GW

[GrayGriffin]

It seems to be Loki's main defense mechanism against being beaten to a pulp for his pranks. (And it's a lot more effective due to the number of times that he's done more good than his schemes did harm, like that time he stole Sif's hair and commissioned Mjolnir and other treasures, or that time he tricked a giant into building most of a wall for free).

I mean, he also tried to sabotage the creation of those treasures due to not wanting to lose a stupid bet he made.

[MReav]

Ew.

Point is, Loki don't need no Potion of Glibness. Loki is what Potions of Glibness aspire to be. Potions of Glibness are inferior knockoffs of Loki.

[Sir_Norbert]

I can see Xykon pronounced in various ways:

Soft z: /Φaɪkon/ (This could have zykon and cykon as homophones)

What on earth is a "soft z"? The sign you used, /Φ/, is a voiceless bilabial fricative (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_bilabial_fricative), the Japanese f, which doesn't occur in English.

Perhaps you meant /ʒ/ (as in azure). But this arises from a simplification of /z/ + /j/, so neither "zykon" nor "cykon" could ever be pronounced this way. "z" at the start of a word is unambiguously /z/.

[8BitNinja]

Potions of Glibness are inferior knockoffs of Loki.

I'm using this next time I get into a conversation about one of the Thor movies

[Mordaedil]

Every time I see Loki on the screen, I just can't forget that this man turned into a horse to seduce another horse, got pregnant and gave birth to an eight-legged horse.

Or to a giant wolf.

Or the worm that covers the entire world.

He got around, is what I'm saying.

[GrayGriffin]

Every time I see Loki on the screen, I just can't forget that this man turned into a horse to seduce another horse, got pregnant and gave birth to an eight-legged horse.

Or to a giant wolf.

Or the worm that covers the entire world.

He got around, is what I'm saying.

I think he fathered the non-Sleipner kids in the normal way. Although admittedly the version of the myth I read just has the kids show up one day after Loki leaves for a while.

[Quebbster]

I think he fathered the non-Sleipner kids in the normal way. Although admittedly the version of the myth I read just has the kids show up one day after Loki leaves for a while.

Yeah, I think Fenrir, Jormungandr and Hel were all fathered by Loki (I think all three have Angrboda as their mother too) but I could be wrong there...

[Mordaedil]

Sadly, a lot of the myths are more or less lost to age.

[georgie_leech]

Sadly, a lot of the myths are more or less lost to age.

Eh... we do have a pretty good record of a lot written by someone who was an expert on the subject (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codex_Regius). But dangit if I don't desperately want to know what was on those missing pages.

[GreatWyrmGold]

According to my old typing classes back-in-the-day (we actually had to take those!)...
As did I. I used a more freeform style whenever my teachers weren't looking, though. (It helped a lot on the typing tests.)



Loki used to transform into a milkmaid and have kids with mortal men, for exemple.
Oh, so that's why everybody makes fun of him!



I mean, he also tried to sabotage the creation of those treasures due to not wanting to lose a stupid bet he made.
Hey, only half of them. (The other half were made by the first set of dwarves, recall.) And they wouldn't be commissioned at all if it wasn't for the bet, so I'd say he still did more good than harm that time.

[woweedd]

As did I. I used a more freeform style whenever my teachers weren't looking, though. (It helped a lot on the typing tests.)



Oh, so that's why everybody makes fun of him!



Hey, only half of them. (The other half were made by the first set of dwarves, recall.) And they wouldn't be commissioned at all if it wasn't for the bet, so I'd say he still did more good than harm that time.
It probably doesn't surprise you to learn that many modern re-interpretations have Loki as Genderfluid.