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View Full Version : Shugenja vs. Favoured Soul



bbugg
2007-08-07, 11:45 AM
I just got Complete Divine and was intrigued by the Shugenja - interesting fluff and it just appealed to me for some reason. But then when I compared it to Favoured Soul, it's no comparison at all!

Same number of spells per day
Same number of spells known, but Shugenja is limited in selection
FS gets armour, better BAB, better saves and interesting bonuses
Shugenja - nothing.

Am I missing something or is this a totally underpowered class? The only benefit I see of Shugenja over FS is that you only need one strong stat to cast well as opposed to the two for FS...

blue_fenix
2007-08-07, 11:50 AM
If I remember correctly, Shugenja is one of a few classes (the others are Samurai, Kensai, and Wu Jen, I think) that got majorly changed (mostly for the worse) when they were ported from Oriental Adventures to the Complete series of books. Both Shugenja and Favored Soul are considered weak compared to a standard cleric, but if you aren't concerned with powergaming they can still be fun.

Person_Man
2007-08-07, 11:56 AM
Both are considered pretty weak compared to most other full casters. I almost never see builds for either of them on the boards.

bbugg
2007-08-07, 12:09 PM
Is the weakness of the spontaneous casters due to the fact that they get higher level spells at one character level higher? Or the limited spell selection?
Otherwise, they're pretty similar to the full caster classes, aren't they?

blue_fenix
2007-08-07, 12:21 PM
Waiting longer to get higher level spells is a problem, but not as much as the lack of versatility. A prepared caster can fill up their spell slots with spells that fit what they expect to encounter and only prepare highly specialized spells when necessary. A cleric can already spontaneously drop a spell for a cure X wounds, whereas a favored soul has to waste a known spell to get the same ability. By the time the favored soul learns all the cures plus heal, lesser restoration, greater restoration, raise dead, etc. they've used up a LOT of their spells known on spells that don't get used every day.

Also, taking a full round action to metamagic a spell sucks.

HydwenPrydain
2007-08-07, 12:28 PM
They can't quicken spells, they spend 50% of the game one spell level behind a prepared caster, and they can't change their spells from day to day. If someone gets cursed, or his strength drained, or you need to talk to a corpse, or you're going to be fighting evil outsiders and want an extra edge, a cleric can do it with 8 hours of rest, while a favored soul has to either learn these and waste their spells known most of the time, hope he has a scroll, or just not be able to cure these problems. Plus, you virtually have to pick a cure spell as one of your spells known each level in order to heal your group, where a cleric can just spontaneously cast them.

The binary casting stat makes it very difficult to make a decent favored soul under point-buy unless you forget about ever casting something that allows a save (or having many spells/day), or having decent melee stats. The lack of domains severely limits their PrC-ability and their access to neat special abilities, and the lack of turning restricts them from getting divine feats they could get a lot of mileage out of due to high charisma. Plus you don't get heavy armor proficiency. Very flavorful, pitiful crunch.

I would personally start every spontaneous caster's spell levels at the same levels prepared casters get them (3rd for 2nd level spells, for instance). I think that would better balance the utility of not preparing with the lack of quicken spell and day-to-day versatility.

Behold_the_Void
2007-08-07, 12:33 PM
To answer the original question, I believe the Shugenja has some spells that are more commonly associated with Arcane casters because in the Rokugan setting, Shugenja are pretty much the only casters (as Sorcerers are often Maho Tsukai, bloodspeakers and Wu Jen not, technically, existing in the setting) and thus need to fulfill both the arcane and divine caster rolls.

CASTLEMIKE
2007-08-07, 12:56 PM
FS is generally the stronger class particularly with something like an extra domain "Spell" although the Shugenka has a wider spell selection.

For healing the FS doesn't need anything more than a Wand of Fast Healing 1 and the following known spells Mass Fast Healing 1, Panacea and Heal leveling up.

The FS can get by without Lesser Restoration in most games via scrolls, wands or an extra domain like the "Spell" domain.

Person_Man
2007-08-07, 01:39 PM
In addition to slower progression and limited spells, niether gets Domains. Look at Crystalkeep, and you'll quickly see how potent Domain powers and spells can be.

Mike_Lemmer
2007-08-07, 02:30 PM
The main problem with Favored Soul is that they ripped out Turn/Rebuke Undead & Domains, the two primary divine abilities that they use to power all of the clerical feats & PrCs, thereby reducing the Favored Soul to the cleric's wannabe little brother.