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RumoCrytuf
2017-07-14, 12:31 PM
Heyo Playgrounders,

I've hit a bit of a Homebrewer's block. I'm designing a class based off of the Flagellant in Darkest Dungeon.




The Flagellant:

The Flagellant relishes the scars and abrasions that cover his body - drawing incomprehensible resilience from the tearing of his own flesh. His flail, a particularly cruel and merciless weapon, drips with his enemies' blood... and his own.

The Flagellant empowers himself and alliesÖ. At the cost of his own blood. Fanatics of the Church, Flagellants believe the only way to salvation is through suffering. They beat themselves with flails and whips relentlessly, finding absolution in this madness

Class Features:
As a Flagellant, you gain the following features.

Hit Points
Hit Dice: 1d12 per level
Hit Points at 1st Level: 12 + you Constitution Modifier
Hit Points at Higher Levels: 1d12 (or 7) plus your Constitution Modifier per Flagellant level after 1st

Proficiencies
Armor: None
Weapons: Flails, Whips.
Tools: None
Saving Throws: Strength, Constitution
Skills: Choose Two from Athletics, Insight, Intimidation, Medicine, Perception, Religion, and Survival

Equipment:
You gain the following equipment, in addition to the equipment granted by your background:
(a) Flail or (b) Whip
(a) A Dungeoneerís pack or (b) an Explorerís pack
A Holy Symbol

The Vows:
Beginning at 1st level, you take a sacred vow: The burden of suffering cannot be shared! You cannot multiclass into the Flagellant, nor can you multiclass out of the Flagellant.

Deathís Door:
Beginning at 1st level, you no longer fall unconscious when you reach 0 Hit Points, nor do you make death saving throws. You instead make a Constitution Saving throw with a DC equal to 8+ However much damage you took. Instant death effects, such as Power Word: Kill, will bring you to Death's Door, or kill you if you're already at Death's Door.

At 7th level, whenever you are at Death's Door, you heal allies within 15 feet for 1d10 hp, and 3d12 hp when you die.

Devoted Resolve:
Your Constitution Score increases by 2

SUFFER!
Beginning at 2nd level. when an ally is Blinded, Deafened, Paralyzed, Poisoned, or Stunned, you can spend your action to remove those conditions and add them to yourself. If you gain a condition this way, it's duration is three rounds

The Burden of Suffering:
Whenever you hit with a melee attack that isnít Exsanguinate, you take 1d4 damage.

Spellcasting:
By 2nd level, you have learned to channel your blood to cast divine magic. Use the Cleric Spell list for your known spells. Follow the Paladin Spell Progression table for your Spell Progression. Your Spellcasting ability is Constitution.


Preparing and Casting Spells:
You prepare the list of Cleric Spells that are available for you to cast. To cast a spell of 1st level or higher, you must expend a slot of the spellís level or higher. You regain all expended spell slots when you finish a long rest. You prepare the list of Cleric spells that are available for you to cast, choosing from the Cleric Spell list. When you do so, choose a number of Cleric spells equal to you Constitution modifier + half of your level, rounded down. (minimum of 1). The spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots.

Spellcasting Ability:
Constitution is your spellcasting ability for your spells, since their power derives from the conviction of your blood. You use your Constitution whenever a spell refers to your spellcasting ability. In addition, you use your Constitution modifier when setting the saving throw DC for a spell you cast and when making an attack roll with one.

Spell save DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Constitution modifier
Spell attack Modifier = your proficiency bonus + your Constitution modifier.

Spellcasting Focus:
You can use a holy symbol as a spellcasting focus for your spells.

Blood Magic:
Whenever you cast a spell, you take 2d4 damage per level of the spell. Additionally, you cannot heal yourself with spells cast this way.

Exsanguinate:
Beginning at Third Level, whenever you are below 50% HP, you can use your action to Exsanguinate. Make a melee attack roll against a target that you can see within 5 feet. On a success, they take 2d10 damage, and you heal for that much. This damage increases to 3d10 at 7th level, and 4d10 at 11th level. You must finish a Long Rest before you can use this feature again.

At 15th Level, You can use this feature twice before a long rest, but not twice in the same turn.


Ability Score Improvement
When you reach 4th level, and again at 8th, 12th, 16th, and 19th level, you can increase one ability score of your choice by 2, or you can increase two ability scores of your choice by 1. As normal, you canít increase an ability score above 20 using this feature.

Extra Attack
Beginning at 5th level, you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn.

Flail Mastery
Beginning at 6th level, You gain a +2 bonus to attack and damage rolls made with flails.

Redeem
Beginning at 7th Level, whenever you are below 50% HP, you can use your action to heal yourself and an ally for 3d10 HP. If you do so, you cannot take reactions until your next turn. You must finish a Long Rest before you can use this feature again.

Reclaim
Beginning at 9th Level, you may bleed yourself to heal your allies. Deal 1d10 damage to yourself, and heal target creature within 10 feet for 2d4+2 HP

This increases to 2d10 damage and 6d4+4 HP at Level 16




I'm collaborating with the DM at the moment, but I would also love some feedback as how to finish the class, or what changes should be made to balance it. I'm thinking of buffing Death's Door at level 11 or so, and then a capstone feature around Death's Door

Jacquerel
2017-07-14, 01:30 PM
Beginning at 1st level, you no longer fall unconscious when you reach 0 Hit Points, nor do you make death saving throws. You instead make a Constitution Saving throw with a DC equal to 8+ However much damage you took. Instant death effects, such as Power Word: Kill, will bring you to Death's Door, or kill you if you're already at Death's Door.

I'm not sure that you finished writing this feature.
You make a Constitution saving throw... and then what? What are the consequences for passing or failing?

Devoted Resolve is extremely boring and also very at odds with what classes in this game usually do.


Beginning at 2nd level. when an ally is Blinded, Deafened, Paralyzed, Poisoned, or Stunned, you can spend your action to remove those conditions and add them to yourself. If you gain a condition this way, it's duration is three rounds
There are either no or at least very few effects in 5e that list their durations in terms of "rounds".
Things either last until the end of your next turn, a minute, or ten minutes.


Whenever you hit with a melee attack that isnít Exsanguinate, you take 1d4 damage.
You start taking damage from this at level 2, despite not having the attack it forces you to make until level three?


Beginning at Third Level, whenever you are below 50% HP, you can use your action to Exsanguinate. Make a melee attack roll against a target that you can see within 5 feet. On a success, they take 2d10 damage, and you heal for that much. This damage increases to 3d10 at 7th level, and 4d10 at 11th level. You must finish a Long Rest before you can use this feature again.
You take damage when you don't use this ability but can only use it once per day?

Why are you being given Extra Attack if you are punished for using the Attack action?

Why are you only incentivising a certain weapon at level seven? And why is it such a narrow category?

Is Reclaim an action? Can you just do it every turn? Are there any limits on what you can heal?

This class just seems to hurt itself whenever it does anything interesting, has almost no way of healing itself to prevent this damage, and gains no benefit from losing all of its health. I don't see why anyone would want to play this class.
This is a bit of a mess, does not sound very fun to play, and I am afraid that maybe you need to familiarise yourself with the system a bit more before writing content for it.

JNAProductions
2017-07-14, 01:45 PM
Belongs in the homebrew forum.

Should have all simple weapons PLUS flails and whips. Give them options, man.

Death's Door doesn't say what happens when you fail. Presumably, you die. However, this renders you basically immune to Death By A Thousand Cuts. I'd rather just give advantage on Death Saves, and maybe the ability to function normally while dying? In addition, at 7th level, it kinda breaks. An ally punches you for 1 damage, you (with your 20 in Con and +3 proficiency) automatically pass the DC 9 save, and all buddies heal for 1d10. You might be on Death's Door, but your allies are at full, and then they can Cure Wounds you or something.

What level is Devoted Resolve? Does it still obey the 20 soft cap? Why is this needed?

Suffer! lets you heal permanent blindness in exchange for crippling yourself for 3 rounds. Specify that it lasts 3 rounds or the existing duration, whichever is longer. In addition, you cannot take a condition onto yourself if you already have it.

Constitution Casting is a no-no.

Flail Mastery is too much. Should not give a +2 to attack-damage is fine, though.

Overall, it feels unfinished and poorly balanced.

Sariel Vailo
2017-07-14, 02:04 PM
Simple and martial im gonna ivy this class whip sword.oh yeah tiefling with british accent nauuuuughty.allo what is the caster level and spell list.

RumoCrytuf
2017-07-14, 04:02 PM
Devoted Resolve is extremely boring and also very at odds with what classes in this game usually do.


I gave this class a +2 CON bonus because they have no proficiency in any armor, and they won't have unarmored defense of any kind. I figured the way to balance this was to give them a stat boost to up health and durability



There are either no or at least very few effects in 5e that list their durations in terms of "rounds".
Things either last until the end of your next turn, a minute, or ten minutes.


A round is six seconds. Basic math tells us that minutes can be divided into rounds.



You start taking damage from this at level 2, despite not having the attack it forces you to make until level three?


You take damage when you don't use this ability but can only use it once per day?

Why are you being given Extra Attack if you are punished for using the Attack action?


The Flagellants whole shtick is to hurt themselves to damage enemies and heal allies. Hence why the d12 HD and Con Bonus.



Why are you only incentivising a certain weapon at level seven? And why is it such a narrow category?


In history and the game that this class is based off of, Flagellants were radical members of the Church that beat themselves with flails as a form of cleansing. It only made sense that they specialize in flails. Why level seven? It's not level seven. It's level six. Why level six? It's essentially making all flails a +2 weapon without magic.



This class just seems to hurt itself whenever it does anything interesting, has almost no way of healing itself to prevent this damage, and gains no benefit from losing all of its health. I don't see why anyone would want to play this class.
This is a bit of a mess, does not sound very fun to play, and I am afraid that maybe you need to familiarise yourself with the system a bit more before writing content for it.

Hence why I came to the forums for advice, as well as putting WIP (Work in Progress) in the title. If I thought the class was fine enough to be played, I wouldn't be here.



Death's Door doesn't say what happens when you fail. Presumably, you die. However, this renders you basically immune to Death By A Thousand Cuts. I'd rather just give advantage on Death Saves, and maybe the ability to function normally while dying? In addition, at 7th level, it kinda breaks. An ally punches you for 1 damage, you (with your 20 in Con and +3 proficiency) automatically pass the DC 9 save, and all buddies heal for 1d10. You might be on Death's Door, but your allies are at full, and then they can Cure Wounds you or something.

Noted. I've changed it since the post went up, and will put the new version in a later reply.



What level is Devoted Resolve? Does it still obey the 20 soft cap? Why is this needed?

I didn't plan on giving the Flagellant Unarmored defense of any kind, nor any proficiency in armor; I decided to balance this by making them more resilient.


Simple and martial im gonna ivy this class whip sword.oh yeah tiefling with british accent nauuuuughty.allo what is the caster level and spell list.

https://youtu.be/N1A-JGIF1Vc?list=PLqTT_VuffgDP0I6accl0jP5p3kxBRPVPa&t=15745

Thanks for the feedback, I'll put up a new version of the Flagellant soon.

Sariel Vailo
2017-07-14, 04:14 PM
You know soul calibur whip sword.

RumoCrytuf
2017-07-14, 04:20 PM
You know soul calibur whip sword.

I've heard of Soul Calibur, but I never played it. Sorry

Sariel Vailo
2017-07-14, 04:26 PM
I've heard of Soul Calibur, but I never played it. Sorry

Look her up wacth a video im gonna do things lime that with this tiefling variant i found. Its called shackleborn
Here is a link to the races
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php

StoicLeaf
2017-07-14, 05:12 PM
Ok, here are my thoughts:

No multiclassing:
If your class isn't horribly broken, MCing shouldn't be a problem. I don't like the idea of snowflaking classes, even with an "RP" excuse.

Death's door:
No. Barbarian's get something not as powerful at level 11. This needs a different translation.

Devoted Resolve:
I don't think an extra 1hp per level is going to offset a lousy AC. Unarmored Defence would be better here.

SUFFER!
No. This needs to be a spell (or have a resource ala lay on hands) and the duration of the spells remains. Alternatively, perhaps when higher spell slots are used, allow for duration reduction.

Spell Cheatery:
No. Using CON as your casting stat feels cheap; the flagellant being a religious zealot would be a wisdom caster.

Exsanguinate:
I have no idea how this would play out. This feels more like a short rest ability, but the numbers might be off as they are. This is the only ability I'd want to see play tested.

Flail Mastery:
Err, how about no. Stick to the currently available fighting styles and go from there. +2 to both hit and damage is just way too much.

Redeem:
This also needs to be a spell. Or an ability plugged into something like the battlemaster's tactics.

Reclaim:
Save as above.

In summary:

I think this class needs a revision. I'd take currently available class chassis' and modify them. I think using a mix of barb/pala/cleric/battlemaster would work quite well. Another thing to keep in mind is that quite a lot of the flavour of the flagellant gets lost in 5e; protection and its counter, dots, aren't a thing in 5e. Neither is stress healing. Neither is outhealing the enemy.
Ultimately you might just want to play a paladin of the lady of pain and ask your DM nicely if you can have unarmored defence instead of the paladin's fighting style.

napoleon_in_rag
2017-07-14, 05:53 PM
Am I the only one who came to this thread because I thought it was about "The Flatulent"?

That would be a cool bit of home brew.

RumoCrytuf
2017-07-15, 11:05 PM
Changelog:


1.Added Simple Weapon Proficiency
2.Set a Flat DC for Death's Door Save that's affected by use of abilities.
3.Worded Death's Door so Allies can't knock you unconscious to heal themselves
4.Devoted Resolveís Ability Score increase can exceed 20
5.Suffer cannot remove permanent conditions
6.Burden of Suffering begins at third level
7.Changed Spellcasting Ability to Wisdom (Thanks for the suggestion.)
8.Lowered Blood Magic damage to 1d4
9. Exsanguinate can be used twice, then three times at later levels
10. Exsanguinate is refreshed upon a short or long rest
11. Flail Mastery Remains unchanged (For now. I plan to change it soon)
12. Redeem refreshed upon a long rest
13. Added a new feature: Improved Death's Door (Needs proper wording)





The Flagellant:

The Flagellant relishes the scars and abrasions that cover his body - drawing incomprehensible resilience from the tearing of his own flesh. His flail, a particularly cruel and merciless weapon, drips with his enemies' blood... and his own.

The Flagellant empowers himself and alliesÖ. At the cost of his own blood. Fanatics of the Church, Flagellants believe the only way to salvation is through suffering. They beat themselves with flails and whips relentlessly, finding absolution in this madness

Class Features:
As a Flagellant, you gain the following features.

Hit Points
Hit Dice: 1d12 per level
Hit Points at 1st Level: 12 + you Constitution Modifier
Hit Points at Higher Levels: 1d12 (or 7) plus your Constitution Modifier per Flagellant level after 1st

Proficiencies
Armor: None
Weapons: Simple Weapons, Flails, Whips.
Tools: None
Saving Throws: Strength, Constitution
Skills: Choose Two from Athletics, Insight, Intimidation, Medicine, Perception, Religion, and Survival

Equipment:
You gain the following equipment, in addition to the equipment granted by your background:
(a) Flail or (b) Whip
(a) A Dungeoneerís pack or (b) an Explorerís pack
A Holy Symbol

The Vows:
Beginning at 1st level, you take a sacred vow: The burden of suffering cannot be shared! You cannot multiclass into the Flagellant, nor can you multiclass out of the Flagellant.

Deathís Door:
Beginning at 1st level, you no longer fall unconscious when you reach 0 Hit Points, nor do you make death saving throws. You instead make a Constitution Saving throw with a DC of 15, known as a Deathís Door Save. On a failure, you die. Instant death effects, such as Power Word: Kill, will bring you to Death's Door, or kill you if you're already at Death's Door. Each time you inflict damage to yourself through the use of your Flagellant abilities or spells, the DC of your Death's Door Save lowers by 1, to a minimum of 5. This feature resets upon making a Deathís Door Save or after you finish a Short or Long Rest.


At 7th level, whenever you reach Death's Door from a source other than an ally, you heal allies within 15 feet for 1d10 hp, and 3d12+20 hp when you die.

Devoted Resolve:
Beginning at 1st Level, Your Constitution Score increases by 2.This can exceed the normal limit of 20.

Suffer
Beginning at 2nd level. when an ally is Blinded, Deafened, Paralyzed, Poisoned, or Stunned, you can spend your action to remove those conditions and add them to yourself. If you gain a condition this way, it lasts for three rounds. Additionally, you cannot remove a condition if it is permanent.

The Burden of Suffering:
Beginning at 3rd Level, whenever you hit with a melee attack that isnít Exsanguinate, you take 1d4 damage.

Spellcasting:
By 2nd level, you have learned to channel your blood to cast divine magic. Use the Cleric Spell list for your known spells. Follow the Paladin Spell Progression table for your Spell Progression. Your Spellcasting ability is Wisdom.


Preparing and Casting Spells:
You prepare the list of Cleric Spells that are available for you to cast. To cast a spell of 1st level or higher, you must expend a slot of the spellís level or higher. You regain all expended spell slots when you finish a long rest. You prepare the list of Cleric spells that are available for you to cast, choosing from the Cleric Spell list. When you do so, choose a number of Cleric spells equal to your Wisdom modifier + half of your level, rounded down. (minimum of 1). The spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots.

Spellcasting Ability:
Wisdom is your spellcasting ability for your spells, since their power derives from the conviction of your blood. You use your Wisdom whenever a spell refers to your spellcasting ability. In addition, you use your Wisdom modifier when setting the saving throw DC for a spell you cast and when making an attack roll with one.

Spell save DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Wisdom modifier
Spell attack Modifier = your proficiency bonus + your Wisdom modifier.

Spellcasting Focus:
You can use a holy symbol as a spellcasting focus for your spells.

Blood Magic:
Whenever you cast a spell, you take 1d4 damage per level of the spell. Additionally, you cannot heal yourself with spells cast this way.

Exsanguinate:
Beginning at Third Level, whenever you are below 50% HP, you can use your action to Exsanguinate. Make a melee attack roll against a target that you can see within 5 feet. On a success, they take 2d10 damage, and you heal for that much. This damage increases to 3d10 at 7th level, and 4d10 at 11th level. You may use this feature twice, but must finish a Short or Long Rest before you can use this feature again.

At 15th Level, You can use this feature three times before a Short or Long rest, but not twice in the same turn.

Ability Score Improvement
When you reach 4th level, and again at 8th, 12th, 16th, and 19th level, you can increase one ability score of your choice by 2, or you can increase two ability scores of your choice by 1. As normal, you canít increase an ability score above 20 using this feature.

Extra Attack
Beginning at 5th level, you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn.

Flail Mastery
Beginning at 6th level, You gain a +2 bonus to attack and damage rolls made with flails.

Redeem
Beginning at 7th Level, whenever you are below 50% HP, you can use your action to heal yourself and an ally for 3d10 HP. If you do so, you cannot take reactions until your next turn. You must finish a Long Rest before you can use this feature again.

Reclaim
Beginning at 9th Level, you may bleed yourself to heal your allies. As a bonus action, deal 1d10 damage to yourself, and heal target creature within 10 feet for 2d4+2 HP. You must finish a short or long rest before you can use this feature again.

This increases to 2d10 damage and 6d4+4 HP at Level 16

Improved Deathís Door
Beginning at 10th Level, your closeness to Death has made you more resilient to it. You may choose to use Improved Deathís Door to gain the following for 1 hour: Each time you inflict damage to yourself through the use of your Flagellant abilities or spells, the DC of your Death's Door Save lowers by an additional 1, for a total of 2, to a minimum of 5. If you use this feature, you canít do so again for the next seven days


Personal Thoughts:
Improved Death's Door seems REALLY strong right now, and I'm not sure how I feel about the seven day cool down. Definitely needs some sort of rebalancing, but I know the general idea I want to go for. Will probably rework it into a capstone feature. I'm going to do some playtesting in game (Hopefully).