Psicrystal gaining feats??

[animewatcha]

Noticed a few past threads about psicrystals gaining feats. The text in expanded psionics handbook says you only count psion or wilder for class levels for the stat blocks, etc. What about other psionic class that get the psycrystal feat? I've seen cases for yes and no. Go with an example of a 20 Divine mind that took the feat? If anyone uses the FAQ, FAQ says any class that ups gaining of powers. Wording below

Any class or prestige class that grants the ability to
manifest psionic powers contributes its level for the purpose of
determining a psicrystal’s abilities, unless the class states
otherwise.
Racial Hit Dice don’t contribute toward this purpose, even
if the creature has a power point reserve or psi-like abilities


How would Divine mind 20 with the construct ACF handle this since it's psi-like ability manifests per class level versus the =4 modifier?

[Naez]

Strictly speaking Psicrystals don't have any HD. Their HP is just a fraction of your own. Therefore they shouldn't gain any feats.

EDIT: I stand corrected, had to double check the books. As a DM I'd have to nerf it to just be a Psionic Familiar, as that is way too easily abusable.

[Psyren]

Strictly speaking Psicrystals don't have any HD. Their HP is just a fraction of your own. Therefore they shouldn't gain any feats.

This is wrong, they do have hit dice. "It's Hit Dice are equal to its master's Hit Dice." The tricky part is that technically this only applies to psions and wilders.

[AvatarVecna]

Strictly speaking Psicrystals don't have any HD. Their HP is just a fraction of your own. Therefore they shouldn't gain any feats.

You're thinking of familiars. Psicrystals, per their statblock, have HD equal to their masters, but only their psion and wilder levels.

[Crake]

You're thinking of familiars. Psicrystals, per their statblock, have HD equal to their masters, but only their psion and wilder levels.

From the reading of the psicrystal rules, it would have HD equal to it's master's HD, but only get the abilities based on the psion and wilder levels. Kinda like how a familiar's effective HD is equal to it's master's HD, even if they have non caster levels or racial HD scattered about in there. It's only the abilities that are actually directly based on the psion and wilder levels.

[Psyren]

From the reading of the psicrystal rules, it would have HD equal to it's master's HD, but only get the abilities based on the psion and wilder levels. Kinda like how a familiar's effective HD is equal to it's master's HD, even if they have non caster levels or racial HD scattered about in there. It's only the abilities that are actually directly based on the psion and wilder levels.

I get what you're trying to do, but that sentence doesn't include the word "abilities" at all.

[ApologyFestival]

Psicrystal affinity received no errata in Complete Psionic, so the most recent rules for psicrystals are in the SRD. FAQ did have an opinion on this and ruled in the player's favour, but we usually don't pay attention to FAQ. Long story short, we are firmly in "ask your DM nicely" territory. Here's rules as written!

Regarding hit dice:

A psicrystal’s characteristics depend on its master. Its Hit Dice are equal to its master’s Hit Dice (counting only levels in psion or wilder), its hit points are equal to half its master’s, and its saving throw bonuses are the same as its master’s.

A psicrystal has the same skill ranks as its owner, except that it has a minimum of 4 ranks each in Spot, Listen, Move Silently, and Search. (Even if its owner has no ranks in these skills, a psicrystal has 4 ranks in each.)
RAW, psicrystals only receive hit die from the master's psion or wilder levels. This means that a 20th level Ardent who chooses psicrystal affinity as a feat gets a zero hit die construct as an imaginary friend, despite qualifying for the feat. 404 familiar not found. It also means that a psion/wilder who enters a prestige class stops granting their psicrystal extra hit dice unless the prestige class states otherwise. No published prestige classes have that benefit.

The psicrystal also has real hit dice, rather than "effective" hit dice for the purposes of spells and effects like blasphemy. This means that it gets feats, but due to the caveat in the psion entry does not receive additional skill points beyond 4 ranks each in Spot, Listen, Move Silently, and Search.

Personally, while the dysfunction is embarrassing, psicrystals are stonkingly powerful and I'm a-okay with them being psion/wilder exclusive. That's speaking both as a DM and a psionic player.

Regarding special abilities, which are way less interesting but since we're here anyway:

A psicrystal grants special abilities to its owner, as shown on the Psicrystal Special Abilities table below. In addition, a psicrystal has a personality (being a fragment of the owner’s personality), which gives its owner a bonus on certain types of checks or saving throws, as given on the Psicrystal Personalities table below. These special abilities and bonuses apply only when the owner and the psicrystal are within 1 mile of each other.

Psicrystal abilities are based on the owner’s levels in psionic classes. Levels from other classes do not count toward the owner’s level for purposes of psicrystal abilities.

Unlike most other prestige classes, the crystal master does gain effective additional levels for her psicrystal's powers.
RAW, psicrystals gain extra special abilities per the table in the psion class entry according to the sum of their psionic class levels. Psionic class levels are not a defined term. Whoops. You may think it's any base class with manifesting and any prestige class that advances manifesting, but the crystal master prestige class implies otherwise. To my knowledge, it is the only prestige class that states it advances psicrystal special abilities, and in doing so states that other prestige classes do not.

As a dumb aside, psionic characters with a useless psicrystal affinity feat (due to lacking psion/wilder class levels) can trade their psicrystal in for an elemental envoy (Complete Psionic), but RAW that familiar gains no additional hit die at all as the master levels, beyond its base hit die. An absolute waste of two feats but better than a zero hit die pebble.

[Kaleph]

I actually use a psicrystal for my current PC, and I found 3 different wording for its advancement:

1. "Psicrystal abilities are based on the owner’s levels in psionic classes. Levels from other classes do not count toward the owner’s level for purposes of psicrystal abilities."
2. "It is found only as a creation of a psion, wilder or character with similar abilities".
3. "A psicrystal’s characteristics depend on its master. Its Hit Dice are equal to its master’s Hit Dice (counting only levels in psion or wilder)".

All three sentences are from the EPH, and the first (in the psicrystal description within the psionic class) and the third (in the psicrystal as a monster section) are also included in the SRD. Sentence #2 has been removed from the psicrystal as a monster section because rather fluff than crunch.

The different descriptions may by the RAW coexists, although it's difficult not to realize that there's some logical inconsistency. My explanation is that the WotC accidentally made, with sentence #3, an unmodified copy-paste of 3.0 rules, where the psicrystal was only available to psion and wilders as a class feature, and not as a feat. As such, we decided to count always towards psicrystal's advancement all levels in psionic classes (whatever it means).

Nevertheless, we also don't consider that the psicrystal gains feats, regardless of HD, due to the well-known story with "advancement:-" (which I personally second as a correct interpretation of the RAW, btw).

EDIT
Also crystalmaster is originally 3.0, and keeps this reference to the psicrystal advancement in its 3.5 version. Looks like WotC was somehow unable to take an unambiguous decision to this respect when switching to 3.5

[Crake]

I get what you're trying to do, but that sentence doesn't include the word "abilities" at all.

You sure about that?


Psicrystal abilities are based on the owner’s levels in psionic classes. Levels from other classes do not count toward the owner’s level for purposes of psicrystal abilities.

That said, I missed this line:


Its Hit Dice are equal to its master’s Hit Dice (counting only levels in psion or wilder), its hit points are equal to half its master’s, and its saving throw bonuses are the same as its master’s.

[Psyren]

You sure about that?

I meant the line about Hit Dice specifically, which is what we were discussing in this thread. Hit Dice aren't an ability.