View Full Version : Mind Flayer Beguiler

2007-08-07, 03:21 PM
How effective would a Mind Flayer Beguiler be as a villian in a campaign? Is there too much of a cross-over between the racial abilities and class features? How would one optomize such a build (CR 12-17)? The CR should just be Racial HD+ Class Levels, not the LA.

Sornjss Lichdom
2007-08-07, 03:26 PM
I think it sounds like a great idea, if you wana be special try to make a lich. But that aside, it sounds like a great idea, putting mind effecting race with a mind affecting class.

2007-08-07, 03:29 PM
CR should be regular CR+class levels, actually. Anyways...

As far as optimizing goes, it's a full caster with 8 noncasting levels. We know what that means. In fact, it'd probably be deserving of a reduction in CR, seeing as you might get a beguiler 9 at CR 17 (oh noes!). Overlap might be a minor issue, and stat synergy is poor (mind flayers like CHA for Sp, and mind blast. Beguilers like INT. At least mind flayers have big stat boosts).

It works thematically. But I can't see it being much of a challenge, simultaneously, unless you playtest peg the CR.

EDIT: Ah, Shhalahr has what probably works as the best solution. Just give it effective full spellcasting.

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-08-07, 03:30 PM
It would likely be more effective if you gave the mind flayer an odd background that would let it replace its racial sorcerer spellcasting/telepath manifesting (depending which version you use) with beguiler spellcasting. That will make Beguiler an associated class, meaning its CR would be 8 (its mind flayer CR) + class level.

If you don't do this, Beguiler will be a nonassociated class, so the CR would be 8 + (1/2 class levels) for a mind flayer with 8 or fewer levels in beguiler or 12 + (class levels - 8) for a mind flayer with more than 8 levels in beguiler. This is because a nonassociated class only adds 1/2 CR per class level up until the number of class levels equals the number of racial hit dice.

For more on associated classes see "Advanced Monster Challenge Rating: Adding Class Levels (advanced-monster-challenge-rating)" in the SRD or on pages 293-294 of the Monster Manual.