Citan
2017-07-15, 05:44 PM
Hi all!
One comment from someone on another thread, basically saying that Shillelagh is generally a trap because of action economy, compelled me to react. But I missed the timeframe by a few days, so have to open own thread.
So, why is Shillelagh a GOOD choice in most occasions?
First, the basics. Why the hell would you interested in Shillelagh in the first place?
1) You cannot/don't want to use STR or DEX as an attack stat for weapon attacks for whatever reason suits you.
2) You have enough "power" behind your weapon attacks, whatever it comes from, to make it worth using Attack over casting cantrips (putting weapon cantrips aside -for now-).
The usual cases where we see Shillelagh considered/advised are (ime)...
- Some Clerics.
- Tomelocks.
- Druids.
- Bards.
- Monks.
But it could be extended to any class that whishes to use a mental stat in place of its usual STR/DEX, including multiclasses or even some Fighters. :)
Now. The usual argument I see against Shillelagh is "it's not worth it because of action economy".
Let's take a Nature Cleric as an example: since you get heavy armor proficiency, you may want to get starting 16 STR as well as starting 16 WIS.
In toughest fights, such a Cleric would either cast Spiritual Weapon, or Spirit Guardians, or both. On any other normal turn, he would have to choose between (enhanced) single weapon attack or Sacred Flame.
If he wants to take advantage of the enhanced weapon attack (because he took Sentinel someway to pair with Spirit Guardians, or Polearm Master), he would normally have to increase STR to at least 18 to keep competitive, and probably 20.
Using Shillelagh instead allows him to max spell and attack by level 8, or enable the Sentinel+Spirit Guardians combo early.
"But it takes a bonus action": sure. But what else would he do with his bonus action?
Unless you cast Spiritual Weapon, or went and built a Shield Master grapple/shove build, you have very little to do with it anyways.
Unless he took Polearm Master instead. Then let's compare two variant human Nature Clerics, level 8, who both maxed WIS as a priority (because you are a full caster in the first place), one using Shillelagh, one not using it.
non-Shillelagh: +3+3=6
Shillelagh: +3+5=8.
The latter loses one attack on the first turn, but then gets +10% chance to hit per attack for the next minute. AND bypasses physical damage resistance, which should start to be common enough at this level.
How would that be "bad"?
Now let's get an Open Hand Monk, which is seemingly the most popular of Monks with Shadow.
First will do as usual, bumping DEX first to 18, then bumping WIS because Stunning Strike becomes important.
Second will grab a level of Nature Cleric early then go straight and bump WIS both times.
At level 8, the first has advantage on AC (+1) and Initiative (+1).
The other one though got two Bless per day from very early on to make him much better, got similar chance to hit otherwise, better Stunning Strike earlier and physical resistance bypass (as sad as may be, Monk gets "magical" only on unarmed strikes, so attacks with weapon are unaffected).
Obviously Shillelagh is of lesser value for a Monk that will reach higher levels, because you usually want to max both DEX and WIS. However, if you are ready to accept a lesser final AC, having WIS as your otherwise only attribute of importance frees ASI for feats instead: Mobile, Alert, Mage Slayer or Sentinel come to mind.
Now let's get a Tome Lock: usually, you just want to rely on Eldricht Blast because you have too bad an AC (even with Mage Armor) to risk yourself into melee. Moreover, you don't get any defining feature for melee attack.
As soon as weapon cantrips are available, it's another story entirely: start with the usual 14 DEX, grab Moderately Armored feat as early as possible, then grab Shillelagh and weapon cantrips.
As a Warlock, your only use for bonus action at lower levels is Hex, and you quickly get many other good spells to use your slots on, whether concentration or not. So the competition for bonus action is actually fairly low.
And now you don't have to get force-tracked into "Warlock = blaster".
More generally, Shillelagh is a very viable tactic whenever...
- You get at least 2 attacks, with or without Polearm Master (and no wish to use heavy weapons) or you get a powerful single attack (weapon cantrips).
- You are feat-hungry while wanting to rely on stat-reliant spells.
TL;DR: is Shillelagh an "always must-have / always use it"? Certainly not: it does require some light or heavier investment depending on where you come from. But it is a very good tool to have at one's disposal, for a large number of character concepts (just brushed off the surface by taking pure-class examples, but many multiclasses can greatly benefit from it: my favorite is EK 11 / War Cleric 9: thematic and great synergy).
One comment from someone on another thread, basically saying that Shillelagh is generally a trap because of action economy, compelled me to react. But I missed the timeframe by a few days, so have to open own thread.
So, why is Shillelagh a GOOD choice in most occasions?
First, the basics. Why the hell would you interested in Shillelagh in the first place?
1) You cannot/don't want to use STR or DEX as an attack stat for weapon attacks for whatever reason suits you.
2) You have enough "power" behind your weapon attacks, whatever it comes from, to make it worth using Attack over casting cantrips (putting weapon cantrips aside -for now-).
The usual cases where we see Shillelagh considered/advised are (ime)...
- Some Clerics.
- Tomelocks.
- Druids.
- Bards.
- Monks.
But it could be extended to any class that whishes to use a mental stat in place of its usual STR/DEX, including multiclasses or even some Fighters. :)
Now. The usual argument I see against Shillelagh is "it's not worth it because of action economy".
Let's take a Nature Cleric as an example: since you get heavy armor proficiency, you may want to get starting 16 STR as well as starting 16 WIS.
In toughest fights, such a Cleric would either cast Spiritual Weapon, or Spirit Guardians, or both. On any other normal turn, he would have to choose between (enhanced) single weapon attack or Sacred Flame.
If he wants to take advantage of the enhanced weapon attack (because he took Sentinel someway to pair with Spirit Guardians, or Polearm Master), he would normally have to increase STR to at least 18 to keep competitive, and probably 20.
Using Shillelagh instead allows him to max spell and attack by level 8, or enable the Sentinel+Spirit Guardians combo early.
"But it takes a bonus action": sure. But what else would he do with his bonus action?
Unless you cast Spiritual Weapon, or went and built a Shield Master grapple/shove build, you have very little to do with it anyways.
Unless he took Polearm Master instead. Then let's compare two variant human Nature Clerics, level 8, who both maxed WIS as a priority (because you are a full caster in the first place), one using Shillelagh, one not using it.
non-Shillelagh: +3+3=6
Shillelagh: +3+5=8.
The latter loses one attack on the first turn, but then gets +10% chance to hit per attack for the next minute. AND bypasses physical damage resistance, which should start to be common enough at this level.
How would that be "bad"?
Now let's get an Open Hand Monk, which is seemingly the most popular of Monks with Shadow.
First will do as usual, bumping DEX first to 18, then bumping WIS because Stunning Strike becomes important.
Second will grab a level of Nature Cleric early then go straight and bump WIS both times.
At level 8, the first has advantage on AC (+1) and Initiative (+1).
The other one though got two Bless per day from very early on to make him much better, got similar chance to hit otherwise, better Stunning Strike earlier and physical resistance bypass (as sad as may be, Monk gets "magical" only on unarmed strikes, so attacks with weapon are unaffected).
Obviously Shillelagh is of lesser value for a Monk that will reach higher levels, because you usually want to max both DEX and WIS. However, if you are ready to accept a lesser final AC, having WIS as your otherwise only attribute of importance frees ASI for feats instead: Mobile, Alert, Mage Slayer or Sentinel come to mind.
Now let's get a Tome Lock: usually, you just want to rely on Eldricht Blast because you have too bad an AC (even with Mage Armor) to risk yourself into melee. Moreover, you don't get any defining feature for melee attack.
As soon as weapon cantrips are available, it's another story entirely: start with the usual 14 DEX, grab Moderately Armored feat as early as possible, then grab Shillelagh and weapon cantrips.
As a Warlock, your only use for bonus action at lower levels is Hex, and you quickly get many other good spells to use your slots on, whether concentration or not. So the competition for bonus action is actually fairly low.
And now you don't have to get force-tracked into "Warlock = blaster".
More generally, Shillelagh is a very viable tactic whenever...
- You get at least 2 attacks, with or without Polearm Master (and no wish to use heavy weapons) or you get a powerful single attack (weapon cantrips).
- You are feat-hungry while wanting to rely on stat-reliant spells.
TL;DR: is Shillelagh an "always must-have / always use it"? Certainly not: it does require some light or heavier investment depending on where you come from. But it is a very good tool to have at one's disposal, for a large number of character concepts (just brushed off the surface by taking pure-class examples, but many multiclasses can greatly benefit from it: my favorite is EK 11 / War Cleric 9: thematic and great synergy).