Help with multiclassing.

[Jackal1616]

Hello friends, I am new to d&d 5e and am struggling with making my class play how I'd like it to.

My DM assisted me creating my stats and such so I just need help on the "effectiveness" of the combat and play. I play a lot of warhammer so I would like to to be as good in combat as I can.

I am currently UA ranger lvl2, and we will be hitting level 3 soon. I don't enjoy ranged combat and I have read all the other classes in the PHB. I really really like the way assassin rogue works and am planning to multiclass into it.

How many level of ranger should I take before swapping over and leaving it behind.

If it helps I have
12 strength
13 constitution
18 dex
13 intelligence
18 wisdom
7 charisma
We did roll 4d6 drop low

I don't mind taking more levels in ranger, but I plan on duel wielding and maybe taking a level in monk for the unarmoured defence as my wis/dex will give me higher ac than light armour could.

Any replies are good food for thought, I'm looking for the "take x in ranger and x in rogue and x in monk to get highest dmg / stay relavent"

Thanks and I apologize is this is posted to wrong area.

[djreynolds]

You must ask your DM how the surprise rounds in his/her game will be run.

How often are you sneaking by yourself? What do you do if you are caught?

Will your friend blow his stealth check and ruin your surprise?

If you took TWF style, then I would only grab 1 level of monk just for unarmored defense as monks do not need TWF as they get a free BA attack.

Also what race are you? Human's without the dark vision spell will have difficulty surprising anyone.

1. what fighting style did you select?

2. Expertise in stealth is awesome but you may have to cast pass without a trace to help out the fighter... and now hunter's mark is off.

3. Consider arcane trickster over assassin, the wizard spell list is awesome just for utility and awesome cantrips and find familiar

4. consider cleric, just a level and you have access to all of those spells. Sacred flame is a nice scaling cantrip you can use for ranged attacks. War cleric has divine favor as domain spell. 3 levels gives you access to hold person... auto-crit

5. do you need the extra attack of the ranger. Maybe ranger 3-4/ 16-17 rogue is a better build

6. I would try ranger 3/ rogue 16 (5 ASI)/ monk 1 (grab this level once you have obtained 20 in both wisdom and dex)

7. 1 ASI dex/ resilient con/ 1 ASI wis/ 2 more of your choice... like lucky for saves

[Jackal1616]

You must ask your DM how the surprise rounds in his/her game will be run.

How often are you sneaking by yourself? What do you do if you are caught?

Will your friend blow his stealth check and ruin your surprise?

If you took TWF style, then I would only grab 1 level of monk just for unarmored defense as monks do not need TWF as they get a free BA attack.

Also what race are you? Human's without the dark vision spell will have difficulty surprising anyone.

1. what fighting style did you select?

2. Expertise in stealth is awesome but you may have to cast pass without a trace to help out the fighter... and now hunter's mark is off.

3. Consider arcane trickster over assassin, the wizard spell list is awesome just for utility and awesome cantrips and find familiar

4. consider cleric, just a level and you have access to all of those spells. Sacred flame is a nice scaling cantrip you can use for ranged attacks. War cleric has divine favor as domain spell. 3 levels gives you access to hold person... auto-crit

5. do you need the extra attack of the ranger. Maybe ranger 3-4/ 16-17 rogue is a better build

6. I would try ranger 3/ rogue 16 (5 ASI)/ monk 1 (grab this level once you have obtained 20 in both wisdom and dex)

7. 1 ASI dex/ resilient con/ 1 ASI wis/ 2 more of your choice... like lucky for saves


I am often used as the scout, our party is Barbarian, lock, fighter, bard, pally, druid, me

I am playing a home brew race that can best be described as Rengar ( from league of legends) and i have dark vision and other handy racial abilities that fit with rogue and ranger.

surprise rounds are given as RAW, so i guess i have to rely on party to not mess up my approach.

I have chosen TWF as i really like the idea of duel wield (don't care if optimal just want best option for duel)

arcane trickster- we have a player joining planning to be that so i am aiming for assassin

I am currently making a cleric as a secondary character if my current one dies (DM says PK will prob happen)

I dont care for the extra attack of ranger, sneak attack and bonus action is enough to me as long as my SA damage does't fall off.

MY MAIN PROBLEM is that i dont know if the level 17 assassin rogue (double damage thing) is a must have or not.

[GorogIrongut]

In my experience, players eagerly make a character into an assassin (rogue subclass to be specific) and then after a month or two of playing it, they ask me if they can change it. Because it is mechanically inefficient. It's literally like having no subclass for 99% of the game.

Instead I would push you towards becoming a swashbuckler. There's a nice synergy between ranger and swashbuckler. You will rule initiative. You have already expressed an interest in dual wielding, which again screams swashbuckler. I also get the impression you would enjoy being able to dance around striking when and wear you may.

So in short, you can go assassin if you really want to... but don't be surprised if you regret it. Instead go swashbuckler.

p.s. Also, you really should care about getting that extra attack from level 5 ranger. It makes a HUGE difference.

[Jackal1616]

In my experience, players eagerly make a character into an assassin (rogue subclass to be specific) and then after a month or two of playing it, they ask me if they can change it. Because it is mechanically inefficient. It's literally like having no subclass for 99% of the game.

Instead I would push you towards becoming a swashbuckler. There's a nice synergy between ranger and swashbuckler. You will rule initiative. You have already expressed an interest in dual wielding, which again screams swashbuckler. I also get the impression you would enjoy being able to dance around striking when and wear you may.

So in short, you can go assassin if you really want to... but don't be surprised if you regret it. Instead go swashbuckler.

p.s. Also, you really should care about getting that extra attack from level 5 ranger. It makes a HUGE difference.


So, swashbuckler looks hilarious, however, my current stats has me at 7 charisma, i could talk to the DM and try to swap my stats slightly. I have not chosen a Ranger archetype, and i think you make a good point about assassin, is there a most synergistic option for swashbuckler rogue from the ranger archetypes? I am currently looking at Monster slayer or hunter.

[GorogIrongut]

So, swashbuckler looks hilarious, however, my current stats has me at 7 charisma, i could talk to the DM and try to swap my stats slightly. I have not chosen a Ranger archetype, and i think you make a good point about assassin, is there a most synergistic option for swashbuckler rogue from the ranger archetypes? I am currently looking at Monster slayer or hunter.

For the kind of character you're describing, I would probably recommend going Deep Stalker. They're badass.
-you get nice additional spells
-you hit exceptionally hard on the first turn (increased speed, extra attack)
-you get 90' darkvision and people trying to target you don't get the benefits of dark vision (i.e. much easier to hide)
-if you go to level 7 you get the incredibly useful proficiency in wisdom saving throws... so now you're proficient in half of all saving throws... and being proficient in wisdom saving throws is probably the most important one to be in. Wisdom and then Dex/Con tied. You already get dex/strength from being a ranger... so you spend a feat to get proficiency in constitution stuff and suddenly it's very hard to throw scary saving throws at you.
-I'm not sure if you'll take it this far, but the level 11 ability is also ridiculous. The ability to make another attack if you miss on one... Every turn... You'll have 2 attacks. You'll get another if this is your first turn. You'll get another for TWF. And if you miss one, you get another chance. You will almost always be unleashing your sneak attack from the Swashbuckler side of your character. This is better than the Master Duelist ability the Swashbuckler gets at level 17. The Swash does it once per rest. The Stalker gets it every turn.

That's what I would do. There are other great options. I like Primeval Guardian and Horizon Walker... but Deep Stalker seems to fit better with Swashbuckler.

[Byke]

Stay in ranger until 5th, the second attack is a big DPS bump. Most campaigns end between 10-12th, If that is the case Swashbuckler is definitely they way to go if you can get your Charisma switched.

Assuming Char (and str) can be switched, a 10th level build I would work toward 5 Ranger / 3 Swashbuckler/ 2 Paladin for smiting

[Specter]

After Ranger 5, Rogue can't hurt. I'll go against the stream and suggest Mastermind for the bonus action help which you can use every round, unlike Assassinate. The help can even give your group higher DPR than a second attack, I guess.

[Jackal1616]

Stay in ranger until 5th, the second attack is a big DPS bump. Most campaigns end between 10-12th, If that is the case Swashbuckler is definitely they way to go if you can get your Charisma switched.

Assuming Char (and str) can be switched, a 10th level build I would work toward 5 Ranger / 3 Swashbuckler/ 2 Paladin for smiting

So i should be swapping strength and charisma? not int?

[Byke]

So i should be swapping strength and charisma? not int?

You will need to swap Char for Swash....if you want to go Paladin later you will need 13 str, so You could swap Str / Con.

13 strength
12 constitution
18 dex
7 intelligence
18 or 13 wisdom
13 or 18 charisma

[Jackal1616]

You will need to swap Char for Swash....if you want to go Paladin later you will need 13 str, so You could swap Str / Con.

13 strength
12 constitution
18 dex
7 intelligence
18 or 13 wisdom
13 or 18 charisma

I really don't plan on going paladin
Mostly ranger 5 monk 1 and rogue 14

I am allowed to swap my skill scores around untill we reach level fine so that we can tune our charcters.

I am either swapping strength and charisma or int. and charisma.

[djreynolds]

The assassin ability is based off a con save, it might be tough to pull off at those levels but still useful

Plain old thief is effective, and I really like the archetype

I would go ranger 3, hunter or deep stalker, your choice. Do you have darkvision? Deep stalker gets this

Also think about 3 battlemaster, grab precision it works

Also check out the rogue guides, the assassin one, here on the forum.

They have a rogue, fighter, ranger build

Now here is the kicker, hunter's mark is a 1d6 extra damage.. so this will make up for a level missed in rogue to pick up the extra attack... giving you 2 chances to land your SA and still have a bonus action to disengage.. so 5 in ranger is not a bad choice as the extra attack coupled with hunter's mark will make up for the lost 1d6 from SA

Swashbuckler is nice because of rakish audacity... you do not need a buddy in melee or advantage for you sneak attack

Fancy footwork is like a free pseudo disengage

[JeffreyGator]

For more monk you might consider UA - Ranger Underdark Scout -3, Shadow Monk - 6 and the rest Rogue of your choice.

You would own the darkness with longer darkvision, free 60' teleportation and immunity to darkvision. Dim light you are essentially improved invisibility.

I would swap TWF for dueling style for +2 damage with that sword.