Favored Class Vs. Associated Class

[Fax Celestis]

The MMs sometimes make mention of "associated class." This is different from "favored class", but I don't know how. Enlighten me.

[Indon]

An associated class, if I recall, is any class that enhances a creature's primary capability. For a Troll, that would pretty much be any full BAB class, for instance.

A non-associated class is one that doesn't mesh well with that creature's primary capability, such as Troll Wizard.

Edit: It's mentioned in determining CR's for monsters with class levels; so that a Troll Ranger will be lower-level than an equal-CR Troll Wizard, following their suggestions regarding CR.

[Gralamin]

The MMs sometimes make mention of "associated class." This is different from "favored class", but I don't know how. Enlighten me.

An Associated Class is what the monster is good at. If a monster is good at smashing things, a Fighter is an Associated Class. You can have many associated classes.
Spellcasting classes are only associated if the creature can cast spells, as that class. (So a Sorcerer is associated with Dragons).

Their main purpose is CR calculation. When adding class levels, if the class is associated, then its worth +1 CR/level, If it is not, then its worth +0.5 CR/level up to the creatures hit dice, then +1 CR/Level.

Can be found here: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm

Adding Class Levels

If you are advancing a monster by adding player character class levels, decide if the class levels directly improve the monster’s existing capabilities.

When adding class levels to a creature, you should give it typical ability scores appropriate for that class. Most creatures are built using the standard array of ability scores: 11, 11, 11, 10, 10, 10, adjusted by racial modifiers. If you give a creature a PC class use the elite array of ability scores before racial adjustments: 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8. Creatures with NPC classes use the nonelite array of: 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8.
Associated Class Levels

Class levels that increase a monster’s existing strengths are known as associated class levels. Each associated class level a monster has increases its CR by 1.

Barbarian, fighter, paladin, and ranger are associated classes for a creature that relies on its fighting ability.

Rogue and ranger are associated classes for a creature that relies on stealth to surprise its foes, or on skill use to give itself an advantage.

A spellcasting class is an associated class for a creature that already has the ability to cast spells as a character of the class in question, since the monster’s levels in the spellcasting class stack with its innate spellcasting ability.
Nonassociated Class Levels

If you add a class level that doesn’t directly play to a creature’s strength the class level is considered nonassociated, and things get a little more complicated. Adding a nonassociated class level to a monster increases its CR by ½ per level until one of its nonassociated class levels equals its original Hit Dice. At that point, each additional level of the same class or a similar one is considered associated and increases the monster’s CR by 1.

Levels in NPC classes are always treated as nonassociated.

[Fax Celestis]

Okay, that's what I thought. I also thought, however, that class features of associated classes stacked with the features of the class--a dryad's druid casting, for example.

[Gralamin]

Okay, that's what I thought. I also thought, however, that class features of associated classes stacked with the features of the class--a dryad's druid casting, for example.

Yes they do, See the quote above.

[LotharBot]

Favored classes are classes that don't count toward multiclass XP penalties.

Indon's explanation of Associated classes is good:


An associated class, if I recall, is any class that enhances a creature's primary capability.... A non-associated class is one that doesn't mesh well with that creature's primary capability, such as Troll Wizard.

You use "associated class" when you're computing ECL, CR, or EL.

If you give a monster levels in an associated class, its CR should go up significantly. If you give it levels in a non-associated class, not so much. A troll with 8 levels of fighter is more dangerous than a troll with 8 levels of bard; a pixie with 6 levels of rogue is more dangerous than a pixie with 6 levels of barbarian. A giant with 5 fighter levels is (usually) more dangerous than one with 5 cleric levels, which is in turn more dangerous than one with 5 sorcerer levels.

If you're building a PC whose race and class aren't "associated", you may be able to convince your DM to reduce your level adjustment to compensate.

[Indon]

Those are specified cases.

For instance, Sorceror stacks with Dragon casting levels, and Sorceror is an associated class. However, a Dragon Wizard is probably also an associated type, because Dragons are crafty and additional spellcasting, even from a different progression, complements them well.

[Gralamin]

Favored classes are classes that don't count toward multiclass XP penalties.

Indon's explanation of Associated classes is good:



You use "associated class" when you're computing ECL, CR, or EL.

If you give a monster levels in an associated class, its CR should go up significantly. If you give it levels in a non-associated class, not so much. A troll with 8 levels of fighter is more dangerous than a troll with 8 levels of bard; a pixie with 6 levels of rogue is more dangerous than a pixie with 6 levels of barbarian. A giant with 5 fighter levels is (usually) more dangerous than one with 5 cleric levels, which is in turn more dangerous than one with 5 sorcerer levels.
Examples of how this works from above:
Troll Fighter 8 CR 13
Troll Bard 8 CR 10
Pixie Rogue 6 CR 10
Pixie Barbarian 6 CR 9.5, Meaning 9.
Cloud Giant Fighter 5 CR 16
Cloud Giant Cleric 5 CR 13.5 meaning 13.
Cloud Giant Sorcerer 5 CR 13.5 meaning 13.
This is CR by RAW. Some of these are probably way off what they should be, but its a good rule of thumb.


If you're building a PC whose race and class aren't "associated", you may be able to convince your DM to reduce your level adjustment to compensate.
I've never considered this before... I will have to figure out a system for this

[Indon]

I've never considered this before... I will have to figure out a system for this

2 Nonassociated Class Levels = -1 LA? Modeling it off of the CR adjustments, anyway.

[Fax Celestis]

See, I always thought that the associated class stacking stuff made the LA easier to stomach. For instance, playing a Nymph as anything but a druid hurts, but a Nymph 6/LA +7/Druid 1 has the casting of an 8th level druid instead of a 1st level druid. Still hurts, but it's more a stinging sensation instead of a bleeding-on-the-floor one. Similarly, a Lillend 7/LA +6/Bard 1 has the casting and bardic music abilities of a 7th level bard: much easier to handle that +6 LA.

[Gralamin]

2 Nonassociated Class Levels = -1 LA? Modeling it off of the CR adjustments, anyway.

Hmm Well lets see
Consider an Ogre Wizard (yeah I know, very bad wizard)
Since a Human with 20 Class levels is CR 20, So should this ogre wizard be at CR 20 by the end.

Its base CR of 3, + 4 levels of Wizard to raise it to 5, +15 more levels to raise it to 20. So a Ogre Wizard 19 is CR 20.
How to model this in game? This looks like a negative level adjustment currently (-3 in fact). I would say in this case, it would have a LA of 0, and thus could reach Wizard 16 and be ECL 20.

That makes some sense I guess.

edit:

See, I always thought that the associated class stacking stuff made the LA easier to stomach. For instance, playing a Nymph as anything but a druid hurts, but a Nymph 6/LA +7/Druid 1 has the casting of an 8th level druid instead of a 1st level druid. Still hurts, but it's more a stinging sensation instead of a bleeding-on-the-floor one. Similarly, a Lillend 7/LA +6/Bard 1 has the casting and bardic music abilities of a 7th level bard: much easier to handle that +6 LA.
Yes, thats true, but at the same time, what if you didn't want to be a druid? with that Nympth however, you can only reach 14th level druid casting. (7 levels) A Nymph with Druid Levels would be CR 20 at Nymph Druid 13 (20th Level casting). Your character is way behind the correct Challenge Rating.
(And this is why CR and ECL hate each other)

[Stephen_E]

a pixie with 6 levels of rogue is more dangerous than a pixie with 6 levels of barbarian.

I'd dispute some that a Pixie with 6 levels of Barb is weaker than one with 6 levels of Rogue.

But the general approach sounds good.

Stephen

[deadseashoals]

However, a Dragon Wizard is probably also an associated type, because Dragons are crafty and additional spellcasting, even from a different progression, complements them well.

Wizard levels don't really stack up favorably on a dragon when added 1:1. The more wizard levels the dragon attained, the more apparent the gap between a dragon with additional age categories and a dragon with additional wizard levels would become.

[MrNexx]

I'd dispute some that a Pixie with 6 levels of Barb is weaker than one with 6 levels of Rogue.

But the general approach sounds good.

Stephen

3d6 sneak attack, unaffected by strength or tininess, makes a pixie rogue a frightening beast.

[Artemician]

3d6 sneak attack, unaffected by strength or tininess, makes a pixie rogue a frightening beast.

Two Words. Power Attack. You're not going to be missing, with that +8 size bonus to attack.

[Josh the Aspie]

I seem to recall something in one of the books that talks about monster PCs, either the DMG, MM, or Savage Species from when they were transitioning between 3.0 and 3,5.

If I recall correctly, the recommendations was that if a player chooses a sub-optimal race to go with their class, such as playing a oger-mage that adds levels of a spell casting class to enhance spell casting, rather than brute force, they recommend halving the LA.

[Gralamin]

I seem to recall something in one of the books that talks about monster PCs, either the DMG, MM, or Savage Species from when they were transitioning between 3.0 and 3,5.

If I recall correctly, the recommendations was that if a player chooses a sub-optimal race to go with their class, such as playing a oger-mage that adds levels of a spell casting class to enhance spell casting, rather than brute force, they recommend halving the LA.

A Case by Case basis seems a better approach to me. Halving will often be too little (Because Monstrous characters will almost always be a lot weaker), or it will be too much.
For Example, A Shadow Wizard would have an LA of 3 (3.5, rounded down) by halving, this would mean they could get up to Wizard 14. A CR 20 Shadow would have 17 levels of Wizard.

Edited Out Off topic Variant. Its going to Homebrew

[LotharBot]

I'd dispute some that a Pixie with 6 levels of Barb is weaker than one with 6 levels of Rogue.


Two Words. Power Attack. You're not going to be missing, with that +8 size bonus to attack.

In 3.5, the pixie (Sprite) gets a +1 size bonus to attack (it's small -- same size as a halfling.) With a -4 to strength, it's going to be missing an awful lot unless it's using weapon finesse or a ranged weapon. I seriously doubt it'll be an effective Barbarian or power-attack user. But with huge bonuses to INT for skill points, DEX for attacks, and CHA for social skills, plus invisibility and flight, it's going to synergize real well with rogue. As MrNexx mentioned, 3d6 sneak attack is pretty dangerous on an always-invisible, high-dex, small creature that always gets full attacks. About the only issue it'll have is its low hit die... provided anything can ever find it to hit it!

Personally, if I was the DM for a person who made a pixie barbarian, I'd drop the LA down a bit. Barbarian can still benefit from the flying and invisibility and some of the SLA's, but I don't think it'll benefit from them nearly as much as a rogue would.

Though, the fact that we're even having this discussion shows that "associated class" is not an entirely fixed thing. It can depend a lot on the actual build (feats, skill points, etc.) A giant cleric may or may not be considered "associated" depending on whether he uses a lot of melee buffs or just has a couple of extra hit dice and can cast CLW on himself a few times a day. If you're the DM, take this into consideration -- a fight may be a lot easier or tougher than the added hit dice make it sound, depending on exactly what build you use.

[Stephen_E]

Quote:Originally Posted by Stephen_E
I'd dispute some that a Pixie with 6 levels of Barb is weaker than one with 6 levels of Rogue.


In 3.5, the pixie (Sprite) gets a +1 size bonus to attack (it's small -- same size as a halfling.) With a -4 to strength, it's going to be missing an awful lot unless it's using weapon finesse or a ranged weapon. I seriously doubt it'll be an effective Barbarian or power-attack user. But with huge bonuses to INT for skill points, DEX for attacks, and CHA for social skills, plus invisibility and flight, it's going to synergize real well with rogue. As MrNexx mentioned, 3d6 sneak attack is pretty dangerous on an always-invisible, high-dex, small creature that always gets full attacks. About the only issue it'll have is its low hit die... provided anything can ever find it to hit it!

Personally, if I was the DM for a person who made a pixie barbarian, I'd drop the LA down a bit. Barbarian can still benefit from the flying and invisibility and some of the SLA's, but I don't think it'll benefit from them nearly as much as a rogue would.

Though, the fact that we're even having this discussion shows that "associated class" is not an entirely fixed thing. It can depend a lot on the actual build (feats, skill points, etc.) A giant cleric may or may not be considered "associated" depending on whether he uses a lot of melee buffs or just has a couple of extra hit dice and can cast CLW on himself a few times a day. If you're the DM, take this into consideration -- a fight may be a lot easier or tougher than the added hit dice make it sound, depending on exactly what build you use.

Good points in general.

The case for the Barbarian is d12 HD. Low hps is the biggest weakness of Pixies. Before counting Con bonuses, it'd take 3 Rogue HD to equal the 1st lev of Barbarian.

Follow this up by taking Flyby Attack and Greater Flyby Attack (SS) and Weapon Finnesse. Take a move action in a line and with 1 roll attack a number of targets in reach upto your Dex Bonus without attracting AoOs from your targets. That'd be 7-8 attacks before magical buffs with a +7-8 stat bonus to hit. You can even use the rage to boost your damage.

All this at a ECL of 10. 6 Barbarian +4LA.
True, it would be nastier faster if you took 2 Fighter/2 Barbarian and used a Spiked Chain with the extra feat. That sets you up for Power Attack with the next feat. Important note that 2 Barb levels give you Uncanny Dodge.

A 2 level dip into Monk is strong (Evasion and Combat Reflexes - With a Spiked Chain and Dex 24+. :-)
This does really want a alignment dip from Neutral to Lawful and back, or CN meets Helm of Opposite Alignment, followed by 2 levels of Monk and an Atonement spell to switch you back to CN.
Some would call that cheesy, but outside the "Good" alignment of Paladins, and the "Evil" of Blackguards, I consider most class alignment restrictions rubbish, so I have little compunction about gaming my way past them.

Stephen

[Josh the Aspie]

A Case by Case basis seems a better approach to me. Halving will often be too little (Because Monstrous characters will almost always be a lot weaker), or it will be too much.
For Example, A Shadow Wizard would have an LA of 3 (3.5, rounded down) by halving, this would mean they could get up to Wizard 14. A CR 20 Shadow would have 17 levels of Wizard.

Edited Out Off topic Variant. Its going to Homebrew

No. That's not for CR, it's for LA, which doesn't touch the part of ECL that is due to racial HD. *blinks at my own alphabet soup*

[MrNexx]

Two Words. Power Attack. You're not going to be missing, with that +1 size bonus to attack.

Fixed it. Pixies are small.

They also have a -4 to strength, and are using small weapons. You have to use two points of power attack (one if two-handed) to counter-act the damage penalty from strength, and you're only compounding the loss of penetration power. With a Pixie-sized two-hander and power attack, you're doing 1D10 +2 (power attack) -2 damage (strength), with a net -2 to strike over a human (+2 if being invisible means anything against this opponent)

On the other hand, a pixie rogue with a rapier will do 1d4 -2 + 1d6 (average 3.5), with an average +4 to hit (because weapon finesse is a bonus feat for Pixies). And, if being invisible means something against this opponent, it goes up to +8 to hit, and every attack is a sneak attack. At 3rd level, it goes up to 1d4 -2 +2d6 (average +7), with no loss in accuracy.

There's a reason smart pixies favor rogue if they're wanting melee.

[Stephen_E]

Fixed it. Pixies are small.

They also have a -4 to strength, and are using small weapons. You have to use two points of power attack (one if two-handed) to counter-act the damage penalty from strength, and you're only compounding the loss of penetration power. With a Pixie-sized two-hander and power attack, you're doing 1D10 +2 (power attack) -2 damage (strength), with a net -2 to strike over a human (+2 if being invisible means anything against this opponent)

On the other hand, a pixie rogue with a rapier will do 1d4 -2 + 1d6 (average 3.5), with an average +4 to hit (because weapon finesse is a bonus feat for Pixies). And, if being invisible means something against this opponent, it goes up to +8 to hit, and every attack is a sneak attack. At 3rd level, it goes up to 1d4 -2 +2d6 (average +7), with no loss in accuracy.

There's a reason smart pixies favor rogue if they're wanting melee.

Weapon Finesse isn't a bonus feat for Pixies.
Dodge is the bonus feat Pixies get. See MM pg 236.

So the Barb 2/Fighter 2 with Elite array with the 4th lev +1 attribute in Dex.
Str 13 (9), Dex 15 (24), Con 14, Int 10 (16), Wis 12 (16), Cha 8 (14).
Feats - Flyby Attack, Great Flyby Attack (SS), Weapon Finesse, Exotic Weapon - Spiked Chain, Dodge (bonus feat).
Fly in a straight line for 60 attacking 7 Targets within 10' reach of flight path with no AoOs from targets even if they can see you.

Att = +15 (+4 BAB, +7 Dex. +1 Size, +2 invisible, +1 MW)
Dam = 1d6=av 3.5 (reduced from 2d4) +4 (Rage = Str 17, +3x1.5 2HW) =7.5,
7x7.5 = upto 52pts on average as a full attack action against 7 targets in a 25'x80' path.
HPs = 12+6.5+(5.5x2)+(2x4)+(2x4 rage)= 37.5/45.5 hps Normal/Rage.

Note after 1st strike the Pixie flys backward at a 5' penalty for a 2nd strike.
Done correctly you never finish adjacent to the enemy.

That's why a smart Pixie skips rogue and goes Barb/Fighter. It just gets better when you add Power Attack with your 2HW to the mix. Either Monk (if your DM will put up with the alignment games) or Psychic Warrior (2 feats and you have a decent Wis) are good choices for your next two levels.
The only reason you'd take a 2 level dip into Rogue is for Evasion, and depending on how sneal attack works, the ability to sneak attack those 7 targets (I'm not an expert on sneak att limitations).

But regardless of the exact build ALL melee Pixies should take their 1st level as Barb simply for the HD. Lack of hps is the single biggest weakness of Pixies. Everything else can be worked around. Hp's can't.

Stephen

PS. I realise that no DM in his right mind would give Pixies designed by me a lower CR or LA, but hey, I beleive in doing it right! :smalltongue:

[MrNexx]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/sprite.htm#pixie

IIRC, Weapon Finesse being a bonus feat was corrected in errata; it's certainly been corrected in the SRDs.

[Stephen_E]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/sprite.htm#pixie

IIRC, Weapon Finesse being a bonus feat was corrected in errata; it's certainly been corrected in the SRDs.

Wow! Awesome, two bonus feats.
OK, revise my build by adding Power Attack. Drop a couple of points of Att for double in extra damage. I stand even stronger that the smart Melee Pixie build is a Melee class build. Amongst other things, the Pixie race fixes the mobility problems that are the biggest weakness of standard Melee builds.

Stephen

[UserClone]

Wow! Awesome, two bonus feats.
OK, revise my build by adding Power Attack. Drop a couple of points of Att for double in extra damage. I stand even stronger that the smart Melee Pixie build is a Melee class build. Amongst other things, the Pixie race fixes the mobility problems that are the biggest weakness of standard Melee builds.

Stephen

OK, while you could technically (by RAW) combine weapon finesse with power attack, you wouldn't in my game. They are essentially opposite strategies.
"I square my shoulders and recklessly swing, putting all my effort into damaging this guy - oh, and also I take my time, feinting and thrusting as opportunities present themselves." Ludicrous! Also, you wouldn't get the double extra damage (unless you wielded a spiked chain) because it's only doubled for a two-handed weapon, and WF is for light weapons (with a few exceptions).

Pixie Rogue FTW!

[Merlin the Tuna]

OK, revise my build by adding Power Attack. Drop a couple of points of Att for double in extra damage. I stand even stronger that the smart Melee Pixie build is a Melee class build.Yeah, like the Rogue. Of course you're going to get a neutered caster with +4 LA. But lets run this down.


The pixie has -4 strength. Even qualifying for Power Attack is difficult; most of the time, it simply isn't an option.
-4 Strength means that even when you Rage, you're only up to par in terms of attack/damage as a PHB race.
You're using small weapons, further hurting your direct delivery.
+4 LA reams your BAB, meaning you can't Power Attack much anyway.
+1 Size, -2 Strength, +2 Invisibility. You've got ONE more bonus to hit than a PHB race, not counting the aforementioned shoddy BAB.
Very few weapons can take advantage of both Weapon Finesse (which you'll need to stand a chance of hitting anything) and Power Attack. Off the top of my head, you have rapiers and unarmed strikes available. Neither gives the 2:1 return you need for Power Attack to be worth it. Out of core, there's also the Elven Courtblade, but unless the elves have started a Buster Swords For Babies program, good luck finding one your size.
The Barbarian's damage reduction will be borderline worthless, as the Pixie's is difficult to break through and higher in threshold.

Look at all of that. A Gnome Barbarian hits harder, and he could even burn 4 levels in Sorcerer to have about as much Invisibility access -- but with better BAB, saves, HP, and skills. The Rogue at least gets the benefit of a huge boost to Dex to help with TWF and Weapon Finesse, and the DR gives a little bit of survivability that he wouldn't otherwise have. Sneak Attack is useful because it bypasses normal damage problems (size, strength) under certain conditions. The Pixie is almost perfect for the role, and is absolutely miserable at what the Barbarian is all about.

[Stephen_E]

Yeah, like the Rogue. Of course you're going to get a neutered caster with +4 LA. But lets run this down.

Rogues aren't melee builds. They trip monkeys with some melee ability.
My List response is in the same order.



The pixie has -4 strength. Even qualifying for Power Attack is difficult; most of the time, it simply isn't an option.
-4 Strength means that even when you Rage, you're only up to par in terms of attack/damage as a PHB race.
You're using small weapons, further hurting your direct delivery.
+4 LA reams your BAB, meaning you can't Power Attack much anyway.
+1 Size, -2 Strength, +2 Invisibility. You've got ONE more bonus to hit than a PHB race, not counting the aforementioned shoddy BAB.
Very few weapons can take advantage of both Weapon Finesse (which you'll need to stand a chance of hitting anything) and Power Attack. Off the top of my head, you have rapiers and unarmed strikes available. Neither gives the 2:1 return you need for Power Attack to be worth it. Out of core, there's also the Elven Courtblade, but unless the elves have started a Buster Swords For Babies program, good luck finding one your size.
The Barbarian's damage reduction will be borderline worthless, as the Pixie's is difficult to break through and higher in threshold.



Put 13 into Str and wear a belt of Giant Str +4. For a mere 16,000gp you qualify for Power Attack easy. (The build I was looking gets Power Attack at ECL 8. Easily affordable)
A Pixie Barb isn't all about Str. A decent Str is nice, but they're about Dex and Con. Rage helps Con.
Small size reduces your damage by 1.5 pts with a Spiked Chain. Whoope dodah. Next you'll be telling me Weapon Specalisation is an awesome feat.
+4 BAB cuts your Power Attack some, but frankly it's the rare situation that you put your full BAB into Power Attack anyway. So what you're really saying is that the +4 LA reduces your ability to Power Attack down to the most you'll normally want to Power Attack! Not exactly a problem.
As you say, you're +1 attack up before BAB and Stats. You lose 4 for BAB and gain 4 for Dex, so.. Ta Da, Your total attack is +1 when compared to a PHB race (except for half-Orc). Remember Weapon Finesse is a free feat.
Did you not read my build? Spiked Chain = Weapon Finesse + 2HW + Reach.
But hey, you're right about Barb DR. That minor class ability is pretty worthless to the Pixie most of the time (if they ever take enough Barb levels to even get it). Although if someone does come to the party with Cold Iron it's still could be life saving.




Look at all of that. A Gnome Barbarian hits harder, and he could even burn 4 levels in Sorcerer to have about as much Invisibility access -- but with better BAB, saves, HP, and skills. The Rogue at least gets the benefit of a huge boost to Dex to help with TWF and Weapon Finesse, and the DR gives a little bit of survivability that he wouldn't otherwise have. Sneak Attack is useful because it bypasses normal damage problems (size, strength) under certain conditions. The Pixie is almost perfect for the role, and is absolutely miserable at what the Barbarian is all about.

A Gnome Barb with 4 Sorceror levels doesn't have Greater Invisibility at will, nor Overland Flight at +20' movement. Nor SR, weaker att, weaker saves (don't forget those stat bonuses). Sneak attack is so easily blocked with concealment, Undead, Constructs ecetre.

And most importantly - A Rogue has to end his turn next to the creature he's attacking. An awful large amount of creatures have the ability to know what square an adjacent invisible creature is in. One big hit and your Rogue is in big trouble, if not down. Where do Rogues suffer as Melee builds? No hit points! So what is your response? Use a race with even less hit points! Wow, and you call that a strong melee build.

The Rogue Pixie has at ECL 8 has 16.5 hit points + 4xCon bonus! And you'd put this up as a viable melee combat character who stands next to his enemies!

A Rogue Pixie is a great skill monkey, trapfinder, scout. They're not melee builds.

To get back to the thread. Both Rogue and Melee classes are associated Pixie classes - with Pixie adding to both well, but the caster classes aren't (Sorceror = favoured class! What were they smoking?)

Stephen