Evoker and Wands of Magic Missiles

[Breashios]

Someone told me the Evoker should be doing 1d4+6 (Int 20) with each Magic Missile he casts now that he is 11th level. I'm sure he'll usually have better things to do with his action, but should we give him the other two Wands of Magic Missiles we've acquired over the campaign (he has one of his own already)?

[Easy_Lee]

Someone told me the Evoker should be doing 1d4+6 (Int 20) with each Magic Missile he casts now that he is 11th level. I'm sure he'll usually have better things to do with his action, but should we give him the other two Wands of Magic Missiles we've acquired over the campaign (he has one of his own already)?

Evokers applying Int to every bolt is a contentious point.

[Chunkosaurus]

Per Crawford and Mearls I don't they would benefit from the Wizard's ability https://twitter.com/edge2054/status/527087105915502593

[Specter]

Technically, it applies to one dart per casting.

[Easy_Lee]

Technically, it applies to one dart per casting.

Which is strange, considering agonizing blast applies to every bolt of eldritch blast.

Before someone else says it, I'm aware that EB makes up to four separate attack rolls whole magic missile bolts strike at the same time and don't make attack rolls. That's the mechanical reason for the different ruling. But we all know how confusing this is for new players. Consistency and clarity are not strong 5e's strong points.

[coolAlias]

I forget where I read this, but I saw someone mention that you're only supposed to roll the d4+1 (+mod if applicable) ONCE, and use that value for EACH of the missiles created...

I've never played that way in 20+ years - we LIKE rolling dice - but the rule referenced was that for damage spells that can hit multiple targets e.g. fireball, you only roll the damage dice once, mainly to save time.

However, ask your DM how s/he rules on that, and make your decision with that information in mind.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Which is strange, considering agonizing blast applies to every bolt of eldritch blast.

Before someone else says it, I'm aware that EB makes up to four separate attack rolls whole magic missile bolts strike at the same time and don't make attack rolls. That's the mechanical reason for the different ruling. But we all know how confusing this is for new players. Consistency and clarity are not strong 5e's strong points.



Empowered Evocation
Beginning at 10th level, you can add your Intelligence modifier to one damage roll of any wizard Evocation spell you cast.

Empowered Evocation clearly states one damage roll. So it would add to the entirety of a fireball because you roll the damage once, but it'd only work on a single scorching ray or a single magic missile.


Agonizing Blast
Prerequisite: Eldritch Blast cantrip
When you cast Eldritch Blast, add your Charisma modifier to the damage it deals on a hit.

Agonizing Blast however is written quite differently.

Edit for Cool's post

I forget where I read this, but I saw someone mention that you're only supposed to roll the d4+1 (+mod if applicable) ONCE, and use that value for EACH of the missiles created...

I've never played that way in 20+ years - we LIKE rolling dice - but the rule referenced was that for damage spells that can hit multiple targets e.g. fireball, you only roll the damage dice once, mainly to save time.


Hmm well looking over the spell... I don't see anything that says you should roll once and that's the damage for EVERY DART. However If that is the case if you roll once for magic missile and that's the damage for every dart. Then Empowered Evocation WOULD apply to every dart because you only had one damage roll.

[Easy_Lee]

Empowered Evocation clearly states one damage roll. So it would add to the entirety of a fireball because you roll the damage once, but it'd only work on a single scorching ray or a single magic missile.

That isn't what my hook says. Mine says "the damage roll." There were quite a few threads about this when the game was new. Maybe they errata'd it since then.

[Specter]

Which is strange, considering agonizing blast applies to every bolt of eldritch blast.

Before someone else says it, I'm aware that EB makes up to four separate attack rolls whole magic missile bolts strike at the same time and don't make attack rolls. That's the mechanical reason for the different ruling. But we all know how confusing this is for new players. Consistency and clarity are not strong 5e's strong points.

Yeah, I also feel Evoker got the shortest straw, especially since the only spells that would have the INT applied multiple times are leveled ones, while Eldritch Blast is free. But...

[Millstone85]

That isn't what my hook says. Mine says "the damage roll." There were quite a few threads about this when the game was new. Maybe they errata'd it since then.They has indeed been errata'd.


Empowered Evocation (p. 117). The damage bonus applies to one damage roll of a spell, not multiple rolls.

[coolAlias]

Edit for Cool's post

Hmm well looking over the spell... I don't see anything that says you should roll once and that's the damage for EVERY DART. However If that is the case if you roll once for magic missile and that's the damage for every dart. Then Empowered Evocation WOULD apply to every dart because you only had one damage roll.
Don't have my book handy, but does the text for fireball explicitly say to roll only once? If so, then that's a point in favor of rolling each magic missile dart separately (which my group has always done it that way); if not, then perhaps I need to reconsider how I play. Wouldn't be the first time. ;)

@OP Another point to consider is the versatility you'd be giving up by stashing all of the wands on one character - sometimes you really need an attack to hit, and magic missile is a great way to guarantee that some damage is dealt. It also bypasses almost all damage resistances. Perhaps your party has outgrown that particular need, but earlier on it can be a life-saver.

[Breashios]

The other two casters have magic missile as an available spell almost all the time and never run out of first and second level slots. We do run out of spells level 3+ occasionally, which a 6xMM blast off a wand would approximate. Other factor favoring the Evoker in this context is his Dex is also high, so going before the other casters in a lot of small encounters, he tends to run low on spells before the others.

[Kane0]

Ask your DM. It's one of those things that can be argued either way.

That said, I'd be tempted to just have one wand and leave the other two with other party members that can use it. Just shuffle them around if you happen to run low on charges, that way everyone can MM if they need to rather than all the eggs in one basket (that can only use one at a time anyways). Also attunement concerns.

[sir_argo]

I thought this had already been settled. For quick reference...

https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/774030989894955008

https://twitter.com/jeremyecrawford/status/557820938402947072

Basically, Magic Missile is treated as an area effect attack. The damage for the area of effect is 1d4+1 and if you are an evocation wizard, you get to add your INT bonus, so potentially up to 1d4+6. The multiple missiles are treated as area effect, you can hit X targets within range, where X is the number of missiles. Magic Missile is special in that you can specify more than one missile to hit a target and apply that damage more than once. So if you fire off 5 missiles all at the same target, you roll the damage once (1d4+6), and apply it 5 times to the same target. JC said that if people want to roll separate dice for each missile, don't sweat it.

[coolAlias]

I thought this had already been settled. For quick reference...

https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/774030989894955008

https://twitter.com/jeremyecrawford/status/557820938402947072

Basically, Magic Missile is treated as an area effect attack. The damage for the area of effect is 1d4+1 and if you are an evocation wizard, you get to add your INT bonus, so potentially up to 1d4+6. The multiple missiles are treated as area effect, you can hit X targets within range, where X is the number of missiles. Magic Missile is special in that you can specify more than one missile to hit a target and apply that damage more than once. So if you fire off 5 missiles all at the same target, you roll the damage once (1d4+6), and apply it 5 times to the same target. JC said that if people want to roll separate dice for each missile, don't sweat it.
That's where I saw it - thanks for the re-link!

We've always rolled separately for every single dart, but for the Evoker's feature in 5e, I've always allowed the bonus to apply to each one. I do the same for e.g. scorching ray, even though I do not believe it to be RAW in that case.

[Kane0]

Wierd. I've always looked at magic missile as one or more attacks, except you don't bother to roll them because they just hit. First time I've seen it stated as an area of effect spell, just sounds odd.

The evoker ability is pretty vague though, so depending on DM it could mean Int bonus to each missile, each target or each casting of the spell.