the most archetypical gish?

[Braininthejar2]

Githyanki elites are supposed to be gishes. They invented the word.

But how do they approach it?

They are a psionic race, but suck as psychic warriors.

Should they just be straight duskblades or what?

[Ellrin]

Most gish in a can classes in 3e are pretty suboptimal renditions of the gish concept, so I imagine githyanki gishes probably multiclass. I mean, they're pretty chaotic, if memory serves, so I doubt they'd feel overly obligated to stick with whatever they'd been training at.

[lord_khaine]

They suposedly more or less invented the slayer prestice class, so i suspect they are all aiming at that.
It would mean a ranger/psion/Slayer progression, thats fairly effective.

[Karl Aegis]

They are just wizards with more hit points and weapon options.

[Braininthejar2]

Regardless of alignment, they are highly militaristic and proud - they can put a lot of effort into being the best at whatever they start training.

In that case, what multiclass?

[ATHATH]

Most gish in a can classes in 3e are pretty suboptimal renditions of the gish concept, so I imagine githyanki gishes probably multiclass. I mean, they're pretty chaotic, if memory serves, so I doubt they'd feel overly obligated to stick with whatever they'd been training at.
Actually, Githyanki tend to be LE, while Githzerai tend to be LN. The Githzerai mostly live in the Chaotic plane of Limbo, though, so I can see how you could be confused.

[Ellrin]

Actually, Githyanki tend to be LE, while Githzerai tend to be LN. The Githzerai mostly live in the Chaotic plane of Limbo, though, so I can see how you could be confused.

Ah, I knew one of them lived in Limbo and remembered that the Githzerai were mostly monks, so... next time I guess I'll actually look at my books first. :smalltongue:

My mistake, carry on.

[Braininthejar2]

Ah, I knew one of them lived in Limbo and remembered that the Githzerai were mostly monks, so... next time I guess I'll actually look at my books first. :smalltongue:

My mistake, carry on.

to increase the confusion, in the old editions, gitzerai used to be chaotic (though still described as horribly stubborn) - being the part of the gith race that refused to live in a military regime and instead chose a niche in a world of pure chaos.

Then it was change to lawful neutral, as getting anything done in a world of pure chaos requires a level of mental discipline.

Gitzerai also have gishes, though they'd feel insulted at being called such - a githzerai gish is called a zerth.

[AnimeTheCat]

Githyanki elites are supposed to be gishes. They invented the word.

heh... Gishyanki... heh :smallcool:

[Thurbane]

The original usage of the term (1E) referred to a Githyanki Fighter 4/Magic User (i.e. Wizard) 4.

[Khedrac]

The original usage of the term (1E) referred to a Githyanki Fighter 4/Magic User (i.e. Wizard) 4.
Who had psionics, because pisonics was not linked to one's classes.

[stanprollyright]

Archetypical? Fighter/Wizard/Eldritch Knight. Bard is the only gish-in-a-can in core, though.

[Endarire]

Core gishes, to me, also include Clerics and Druids.

[stanprollyright]

Core gishes, to me, also include Clerics and Druids.

I guess I don't really include divine casters as gishes, because divine casters are SUPPOSED to mix it up in melee with buffs. That's sort of par-for-the-course what is included in being a divine caster. A gish, to me, is some kind of hybrid martial/caster. That's not to say divine gishes don't exist; Sacred Fist and Nature Warrior certainly qualify, as would a multiclass Barbarian/Druid or Cleric/Fighter or whatnot.

[umbergod]

Iirc, dragon or maybe dungeon, magazine had an issue with a lot of Githyanki info (for 3.0/3.5). Gishes were included and i think were just described as fighters with caster levels, usually sorcerer.

[lylsyly]

Dragon #309 and Dungeon #100 would be the starting points of the Githyanki Invasion series.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I'ma go with lord_khaine here: Fighter (their favored class)/Psion/Illithid Slayer makes the most sense.

[gooddragon1]

My gish definition is full bab and max lvl 4 spells.

[ShurikVch]

Dragon #309 and Dungeon #100 would be the starting points of the Githyanki Invasion series.Gish Mindslayer PrC: full BAB, d8, good Will, 4+ skill points, 6/10 arcane progression

[AnimeTheCat]

My gish definition is full bab and max lvl 4 spells.

So like paladin and ranger types?

[gooddragon1]

So like paladin and ranger types?

Exactly. Although anything with full bab as a base class feature unaugmented and higher spell slots, if such a thing exists, also counts.

[Blackhawk748]

Exactly. Although anything with full bab as a base class feature unaugmented and higher spell slots, if such a thing exists, also counts.

It does, and is called the Duskblade.

[Anxe]

Hexblade has always been a favorite gish class of mine.

I'd also agree that Slayer is the way to go now and the original gish was just a fighter/wizard. I think that's what was used in modules too.