Help me finish my Malconvoker Cleric

[magicalmagicman]

Cleric8/Malconvoker2/Cleric10
Domains: Lust
ACF: Divine Magician (no 2nd Domain)

What attracted me to the cleric malconvoker is this:
Surge of Fortune + Lust Domain Power = Guaranteed 100% win chance for Planar Binding. Surge of Fortune gives me a natural 20 circumventing Planar Binding's risk of the creature breaking lose when you roll a 1, and the Lust Domain power lets me use Charisma as a dump stat. At level 10 my charisma for the charisma check will be 18, at 12: 20, at 16:24. Add in Circlet of Persuasion, Demon Mastery, or Charm Domain and I can bind every outsider 100% of the time, including Balors and Pit Fiends.

Because Lust Domain only uses Cleric Levels, I need to be a straight 20 cleric, but if I want to use Planar Binding, I need that 2nd Malconvoker Class Feature. As a result, no PrCs except the 2 levels of Malconvoker!

Feats:
1 Spell Focus: Conjuration
H Eschew Materials
3 Augment Summoning
6 Greater Spell Focus: Conjuration
9 Summon Elemental Reserve Feat
12 Snowcasting
15 Cold Focus
18 Greater Cold Focus

I'm stuck on feats. The Focus spells boosts my Planar Binding Save DCs to overcome some of the really high will save outsiders, and being a MAD class, my wisdom will start out at 15 unfortunately.

I have 2 feats left over, and I don't really know what to get. I chose Summon Elemental Reserve Feat out on a whim as trap monkey, gear carrier, scout, etc.

I considered DMM + Rapid Spell, but seeing how my turn attempts is only at 5, I'm better off with Metamagic School Focus, but not sure spending 2 feats for 3 full-round casting summon is worth it. Beckon the Frozen for a measily 1d6 increase in cold damage doesn't seem worth it either

[daremetoidareyo]

Summoner or dragon below domains offer some benefits too. A lusty summoner cleric is never lonely.

[RoboEmperor]

I thought about Thaumaturgist but it brings nothing useful

???

Contingent Conjuration is extremely useful, especially since you don't have rapid summoning.

[magicalmagicman]

???

Contingent Conjuration is extremely useful, especially since you don't have rapid summoning.

So 4 levels of Thaumaturgist. That still leaves 3 levels.

I've been combing through various threads about cleric PrCs, but they all seem so useless if you don't go for DMM.

Seriously, wtf? Wizards and Sorcerers are brimming with endless PrC options, while clerics have virtually nothing?

[RoboEmperor]

So 4 levels of Thaumaturgist. That still leaves 3 levels.

I've been combing through various threads about cleric PrCs, but they all seem so useless if you don't go for DMM.

Seriously, wtf? Wizards and Sorcerers are brimming with endless PrC options, while clerics have virtually nothing?

I highly advise you to get 7 levels of Cleric. Lust domain only works with CLERIC LEVELS.

If you want to beat Pit Fiends with a 100% chance at level 16, your charisma modifier has to be +9. Because of Malconvoker, your Cleric Level will be 8, which results in a +4 modifier, meaning you need 10 charisma from somewhere...

Maybe you should go only 2 Malconvoker, that would make your Cleric Level 14, which results in a +7 modifier, meaning you only need a +2, either from 14 starting charisma or the Charm domain power.

I saw your FAQ post and your other threads. If you want to be an Evil Cleric commanding undead, you also have to have pure cleric levels not Malconvoker or other PrCs. I think you had your eye on the Pit Fiend's at-will create greater undead.

In any case, if your charisma is not 14, I highly suggest you reconsider your Divine Magician ACF and get the Charm domain.

Honestly, Balors are overrated. Pit Fiends are better, and Paeliryons are significantly better. At-Will Meteor Swarm is better than anything these two have to offer.

[daremetoidareyo]

Contemplative is a great cleric prestige class. Get a bonus domain and advance casting. Elemental domains allow control of elemental types so planar bound efreetis have to follow your instructions. So too with dragons, many of whom have elemental types.

[magicalmagicman]

Contemplative is a great cleric prestige class. Get a bonus domain and advance casting. Elemental domains allow control of elemental types so planar bound efreetis have to follow your instructions. So too with dragons, many of whom have elemental types.

Problem with Contemplative is that it is deity dependent. Deityless clerics can only get the alignment domains, which in my opinion aren't spectacular.



-snip-

By the gods you are right! I guess Lust Domain really balances itself out by forcing you to go straight 20 cleric or something.

New build, Cleric8/Malconvoker2/Cleric10.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Problem with Contemplative is that it is deity dependent. Deityless clerics can only get the alignment domains, which in my opinion aren't spectacular.
Pretty sure that's not true.

If a cleric is not devoted to a particular deity, he still selects two domains to represent his spiritual inclinations and abilities. The restriction on alignment domains still applies.
There's no limit on what domains you can pick beyond "no opposing alignment stuff."

[daremetoidareyo]

Pretty sure that's not true.

There's no limit on what domains you can pick beyond "no opposing alignment stuff."

Grod and I are in agreement on something again! Contemplative just got a whole lot better, dint it?

[magicalmagicman]

There's no limit on what domains you can pick beyond "no opposing alignment stuff."

I meant the bonus domain from Contemplative can only be an alignment domain if your cleric is deityless.

"The character can choose any domain made available by her deity or alignment"

No deity means no domain is made available by her deity. Only domains made available by her alignment are alignment domains.

[daremetoidareyo]

I meant the bonus domain from Contemplative can only be an alignment domain if your cleric is deityless.

"The character can choose any domain made available by her deity or alignment"

No deity means no domain is made available by her deity. Only domains made available by her alignment are alignment domains.

I think that you may be the only person to play it that way. I always assumed that when you're a cleric of a concept, all domains are available to you (within the bounds of that concept) except those prohibited by your alignment. But your interpretation looks convincing. Grod, fix this!

[magicalmagicman]

I think that you may be the only person to play it that way. I always assumed that when you're a cleric of a concept, all domains are available to you (within the bounds of that concept) except those prohibited by your alignment. But your interpretation looks convincing. Grod, fix this!

I actually thought it worked like how you and Grod ruled it, so i suggested it to someone on this forum in an optimization thread, and that person, who is a RAW rule lawyer, pointed out that you couldn't. Last time I help anyone XD. jking.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I meant the bonus domain from Contemplative can only be an alignment domain if your cleric is deityless.

"The character can choose any domain made available by her deity or alignment"

No deity means no domain is made available by her deity. Only domains made available by her alignment are alignment domains.
You know what, you are correct, damn. I thought you were referring to the general case; the Contemplative does suggest that it has to be an alignment. I would certainly rule it otherwise for a Cleric-of-a-cause, who would be communing to be more in touch with said cause rather than a deity, but <shrug>

[magicalmagicman]

Ok, I just need a little help with the feat selection now. Any suggestions? Edited 1st post.

[RoboEmperor]

After combing through every handbook, there is none.

Maybe you should get Eschew Materials in preparation for Ignore Material Components for free Animate Dead.

Unless you can get an extra Feat, Metamagic School Focus + Rapid Spell would be nice to shorten your summon monster casting times, but in my opinion you already have Planar Binding so full-round summons aren't that big of a deal since you can beat the game with Planar Binding alone, and Summon Elemental is so, so very useful.

There's also Touch of Healing Reserve Feat, lets you heal everyone up to half their hp at 0 cost.

[magicalmagicman]

Eschew Materials sounds good. I guess this is it then.

Wow, so much simpler than other builds. Clerics are so simple.

[RoboEmperor]

You should grab the Diabolic Domain. That way you have your Lesser Planar Binding combo at level 9 and Planar Binding at level 11. Then get Malconvoker at level 15 and 16 to get Greater Planar Binding.

The cleric I'm building is very similar to yours, virtually identical, but I chose artifice domain for minor creation and fabricate so I can create my Divine Focus if I lose it. (It's a fingerless glove with the holy symbol embroidered on the back.) Fluff over power for me, but if I went full power, I'd go Lust + Diabolic for a sky high diplomacy check.

So like, at level 10, you'll have 13 diplomacy + 2 (Devil's Ego) + 5 (Lust Domain) + 10 (Diabolic Domain) + 20 Surge of Fortune = 50. That's hostile->Helpful, although only doable out of combat because you don't have silver tongue. Get synergies and that's another +6.

Alternatively, you could go Demonic Domain for all 3 planar binding spells, but I would highly recommend getting malconvoker so you have more than 1 greater planar binding attempt. Those will saves on them outsiders are ludicrously high so you will need multiple attempts. Demonic's domain power however is largely worthless.

[Anthrowhale]

If you choose to be a Spontaneous Cleric instead and take Versatile Spellcaster, you can cast Lesser Planar Binding at ECL 8, Planar Binding at ECL 10 and Greater Planar Binding at ECL 14 by taking advantage of spells known from Malconvoker 2 + Versatile Spellcaster. Bringing the big spells online 2 levels earlier is nice, and Versatile Spellcaster is a useful feat in general.

[RoboEmperor]

If you choose to be a Spontaneous Cleric instead and take Versatile Spellcaster, you can cast Lesser Planar Binding at ECL 8, Planar Binding at ECL 10 and Greater Planar Binding at ECL 14 by taking advantage of spells known from Malconvoker 2 + Versatile Spellcaster. Bringing the big spells online 2 levels earlier is nice, and Versatile Spellcaster is a useful feat in general.

Nope, you're wrong about that. If you're talking about Unearthed Arcana's Spontaneous Divine Caster, you get spells 1 level later. Combine with Malconvoker's loss of spellcasting level, you get spells 2 levels slower. Getting Versatile Spellcaster brings it back to just normal.

[magicalmagicman]

I'll consider demonic and diabolic. It would be nice to have the planar binding and surge of fortune combo at level 9, but that 1/day for domain spells really hurts since the bottleneck now is the saving throw, not the charisma check.

[Anthrowhale]

Nope, you're wrong about that. If you're talking about Unearthed Arcana's Spontaneous Divine Caster, you get spells 1 level later. Combine with Malconvoker's loss of spellcasting level, you get spells 2 levels slower. Getting Versatile Spellcaster brings it back to just normal.

That's incorrect (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/spontaneousDivineCasters.htm).
His base daily spell allotment is the same as a normal cleric's number of spells per day (not including domain spells), plus one spell per day of each spell level he can cast.
As far as I know, Spontaneous Divine are the only classes that are both spontaneous and avoid retarded spell access.

[RoboEmperor]

As far as I know, Spontaneous Divine are the only classes that are both spontaneous and avoid retarded spell access.

right, you get spell slots even if he only knows his domain spell. My bad. So you get planar binding spells 1 level earlier with that combo. That's something I might actually consider now. Need to crunch some numbers.

edit: Crunched the numbers, you get lesser planar binding at level 8 only if you get 2 levels of malconvoker, which means you're gonna get surge of fortune at level 11, meaning the trade off is compared to the build at hand is: early planar binding spells by 2 levels, but risky planar binding for 3 levels.

Spontaneous Caster:
Malconvoker + Versatile Spellcaster
Level 8, 10, 14 planar bindings
Level 11 surge of fortune

Spontaneous Caster:
Demonic Domain
Level 9, 11, 15 planar bindings
Level 10 surge of fortune

Normal Cleric:
Demonic Domain
Level 9, 11, 15 planar bindings, but only 1/day each.
Level 9 surge of fortune

Normal Cleric:
Malconvoker
Level 10, 12, 16 planar bindings
Level 10 surge of fortune.

Look at this info, I think Normal Cleric with Demonic Domain is the best and possibly use retraining rules to select a new domain after getting Malconvoker at levels 16 and 17,

[RoboEmperor]

DOMAIN SPONTANEITY FEAT (Complete Divine)! LETS YOU SPONTANEOUSLY CAST DOMAIN SPELLS USING PREPARED SPELL SLOTS.

I believe this conclusively makes
Normal Cleric20
Demonic Domain + Domain Spontaneity
Level 9, 11, 15 planar bindings (1/day + # of turn undead attempts, maximum is your # of cleric spells per day for that level)
Level 9 surge of fortune

the best build. Period.

[Anthrowhale]

DOMAIN SPONTANEITY FEAT (Complete Divine)! LETS YOU SPONTANEOUSLY CAST DOMAIN SPELLS USING PREPARED SPELL SLOTS.

I believe this conclusively makes
Normal Cleric20
Demonic Domain + Domain Spontaneity
Level 9, 11, 15 planar bindings (1/day + # of turn undead attempts, maximum is your # of cleric spells per day for that level)
Level 9 surge of fortune

the best build. Period.
This does seem like plausibly the best tradeoff.

[magicalmagicman]

Thanks you guys. I guess my cleric is no longer a Malconvoker Cleric.

[RoboEmperor]

Spontaneous Domain Casting ACF
Replaces your ability to spontaneously cast cure/inflict spells.
Gain the ability to prepare cure/inflict spells in your domain spell slots.
Gain the ability to spontaneously cast domain spells of one domain.

Seeing how you're planning on an negative energy cleric, I highly doubt being able to spontaneously cast inflict spells will ever come in handy.

Take this ACF instead of Domain Spontaneity Feat and free up a feat. Now you can use every level 8 and 9 spell slot for greater planar binding.

[magicalmagicman]

Spontaneous Domain Casting ACF
Replaces your ability to spontaneously cast cure/inflict spells.
Gain the ability to prepare cure/inflict spells in your domain spell slots.
Gain the ability to spontaneously cast domain spells of one domain.

Seeing how you're planning on an negative energy cleric, I highly doubt being able to spontaneously cast inflict spells will ever come in handy.

Take this ACF instead of Domain Spontaneity Feat and free up a feat. Now you can use every level 8 and 9 spell slot for greater planar binding.

lol, do you just wanna build the character for me? You've basically replaced everything I had with something better.

[Anthrowhale]

BTW, on the Cleric 20 + Demonic domain approach, I don't think you get access to greater planar binding? One way to get access without losing caster advancement is via Hathran.

[RoboEmperor]

BTW, on the Cleric 20 + Demonic domain approach, I don't think you get access to greater planar binding? One way to get access without losing caster advancement is via Hathran.

You're thinking of Diabolic Domain. Demonic Domain has Greater Planar Binding. Fiendish Codex I p.88-89

@magicalmagicman
Build is pretty much finished.
Cleric 20
Lust, Demonic
Spontaneous Domain Casting ACF: Demonic

My feats are:
1 Rapid Spell
H Divine Metamagic: Rapid Spell
3 Spell Focus: Conjuration
6 Metamagic School Focus: Conjuration
9 Greater Spell Focus: Conjuration
12 Snowcasting
15 Cold Focus
18 Greater Cold Focus

Build focuses on Conjure Ice Beast from your other thread. 5 free rapid spells.

I'm not familiar with Clerics so I can't really help you on spell selection.

Ability Scores 25 Point Buy:
STR 9
DEX 8
CON 14
INT 14
WIS 15
CHA 12

12 charisma for 2 free rapid spells.

[Anthrowhale]

You're thinking of Diabolic Domain. Demonic Domain has Greater Planar Binding. Fiendish Codex I p.88-89

I see it.

One more idea: You could use a Spontaneous Cleric with Demonic and Luck domains taking the feats Versatile Spellcaster and Customize Domain[Magic] from Dragon #325. You can take Surge of Fortune as a 6th level spell. This would give access to Surge of Fortune @L9, Lesser Planar Binding@L7, Planar Binding@L9, and Greater Planar Binding @L13. If you really want the Lust Domain then Contemplative 1 @L11 can grant access.

You might also consider Customize Domain[Luck]. It technically does not allow Surge of Fortune, but a DM might allow that and the domain ability is pretty good for avoiding a '1'. Similarly, Alter Fortune is a thing if needed.