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View Full Version : Seeking recommendations for starting a bladesinger multiclass



nvisibl
2017-07-18, 11:54 PM
So I've been working on this character concept for a few months and I keep waffling on the "best" place to start. So my backstory can accommodate for either an AT rogue or dex EK fighter. I know it may not be optimized and that just 1 or 2 levels could be considered better. But I think the character concept makes more sense that as the character begins to dabble in the arcane it awakens the magic forged inside the bladesinger sword, sending him down a different career path.
Now for pros and cons:
I definitely love the con proficiency for concetration saves gained by starting fighter, plus access to better armor, second wind, fighting style (dueling) and a bigger HD for those scary early levels. Probably go noble (maybe knight variant) for background.
As far as rogue goes, dex saves can save your bacon, not quite as good armor, but still can be decent, mage hand legerdmain, expertise and more skills/tools, sneak attack and cunning action. I know cunning action is probably going to conflict with some spell effects and many skill and tool proficencies can be replicated by utility spells. Also, if I decided to take some more levels in rogue, uncanny dodge and evasion can come into factor Probably criminal or urchin background. And CN as opposed to a good alignment for the EK start might be more fun to RP.
I know party make up is probably going to also factor into which way I go, but I'm having a really hard time picking which route to go and any advice (esp from those who may have played similar characters) would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

The Ship's dog
2017-07-19, 05:20 AM
Either way if you go Rogue or Fighter, you will still be taking light armour, as Bladesong doesn't work of you use non-light armour. Please, please reconsider not going Bladesinger first, each level that you take before Wizard levels delays Extra Attack, and even then you get that at Wizard 6. Because of this delay, really can't go Fighter first if you intend on going EK before going Bladesinger, because then you have Extra Attack overlap, which is bad, and delaying Extra Attack is just generally bad.

If you aren't starting Bladesinger, I suggest going at least Rogue 5 before going Bladesinger and pick up the Booming Blade and Greenflame Blade Cantrips. That way you won't get outpaced too early as Rogues have Sneak Attack to keep up with martials that have Extra Attack. You might want to even go up to 10 levels in Rogue to get Magical Ambush as well as extra ASIs.

Citan
2017-07-19, 08:58 AM
Either way if you go Rogue or Fighter, you will still be taking light armour, as Bladesong doesn't work of you use non-light armour. Please, please reconsider not going Bladesinger first, each level that you take before Wizard levels delays Extra Attack, and even then you get that at Wizard 6. Because of this delay, really can't go Fighter first if you intend on going EK before going Bladesinger, because then you have Extra Attack overlap, which is bad, and delaying Extra Attack is just generally bad.

If you aren't starting Bladesinger, I suggest going at least Rogue 5 before going Bladesinger and pick up the Booming Blade and Greenflame Blade Cantrips. That way you won't get outpaced too early as Rogues have Sneak Attack to keep up with martials that have Extra Attack. You might want to even go up to 10 levels in Rogue to get Magical Ambush as well as extra ASIs.
A Bladesinger can rely on Extra Attack. But he can also totally ditch that and rely mainly on weapon cantrips, and use his concentration on something else than Haste and bonus action on something else than two-weapon fighting.
The problem with not starting Bladesinger is not Extra Attack in fact. Really not a big deal, because Bladesinger is a Wizard at core. Drawback is being one full spell level behind every other caster.

Also, what you suggest is something entirely different from what OP had in mind: grabbing a bit of martial to translate fluff into mechanical benefits. NOT making a gish that caps at 5th level spells. ;)
And OP won't care about dealing less damage than martials. He's not supposed to in the first place, he will be a "near fullcaster" Wizard. Between buffs, AOE, control, environment alteration, divination, and traveling rituals, OP will be far enough contributing to the party as is.

Now to OP: I'd probably recommend Rogue for the following reasons.
- Invisible Mage Hand: much fun.
- Expertise: always useful wathever skill you apply it to.
- Sneak Attack: needs only one successful weapon attack to apply, so works equally well with Extra Attack or weapon cantrips.
- Cunning Action: because you are still a d6 class, you don't want to stay on the frontline: this feature gives you all mobility / stealthiness you need.
- Dexterity saves: always great.

Compared to that, EK...
- wastes the weapon and armor proficiencies (because of Bladesong).
- wastes the Fighting Style (Dueling is just nice, light armor + Defense is basically Mage Armor, Archery is mostly irrelevant for you unless very niche build, Protection is not possible).
- gives a measly healing (Second Wind), but honestly not that different than quaffing a potion.
- gives a bonded weapon (which is great for your character concept, but gives very little benefit beyond that).
- gives Action Surge (great benefit, but true value will come much later when you get high level spells).
- gives Constitution saves (you won't stay in melee, so it's not that important, and Bladesong already improves your concentration).

>>> Overall Rogue provides the better synergy, by far. Furthermore, you can always push it further somewhere along the multiclass to get Uncanny Dodge if you so wish.
The only drawback is that you will have to grab Resilient: Wisdom and Warcaster. Not that big of a drawback imo. :)

nvisibl
2017-07-19, 09:33 AM
Thanks for reminding me bladesong requires light armor, forgot all about that for some reason. And yes, extra attack is not something I was going to be relying on, GFB/BB were going to be much more my bread & butter. Delaying extra attack is not something I'm worried about whatsoever.
I also forgot about bladesong giving a bump to concentration saves, so fighter con save proficiency not as big of a deal. So all I'd be giving up by going rogue instead of fighter is a few HP, second wind, weapon bond, and fighting style (which SA more than makes up for).

I was originally leaning toward EK but looks like AT is just as good, if not mechanically superior. Probably be more fun to RP as well.

Thanks for the input!

Princess
2017-07-19, 09:58 AM
Any combination of Arcane Trickster and Bladesinger is good. If you know what level the campaign is going to, figure out what the best spells you want and plan accordingly, but it's fairly straightforward picking wizard spells that aren't normal for AT but can help swimmingly. Shield, Grease, Haste, earlier access to Invisibility *and* Greater Invisibility, all excellent.