So I'm thinking about making a Magus//Brawler

[Hackulator]

Possibly not the most optimized thing? Not really sure but I don't care I like the idea of the brawling caster.

Couple questions if anyone knows.

Does Spellstrike + Spell Combat mean I can make a full attack, cast a touch spell and get a free additional attack to deliver that touch spell?

Can I then also use Brawlers Flurry for more attacks?

It will be an Eldritch Scion build cause reasons.

Any suggestions welcome.

[Kurald Galain]

Possibly not the most optimized thing? Not really sure but I don't care I like the idea of the brawling caster.
An unarmed Magus (with the IUS feat) is a brawling caster; I'm not seeing how the Brawler class adds anything to this particular build.


Does Spellstrike + Spell Combat mean I can make a full attack, cast a touch spell and get a free additional attack to deliver that touch spell?
Yes.


Can I then also use Brawlers Flurry for more attacks?
No, you can't use BF in combination with SC because both are a full attack action.


Any suggestions welcome.
Check the guide in my sig.

[Hackulator]

An unarmed Magus (with the IUS feat) is a brawling caster; I'm not seeing how the Brawler class adds anything to this particular build.


Sorry, I was unclear, will fix the title, its gestalt Magus//Brawler. Not sure if something like just straight fighter might be better if I can't flurry.

Now since two-weapon fighting isn't used as a full round action, it just gives you extra attacks, could I use that with Spell Combat and my fists if I have improved unarmed strike?

[Florian]

@Hackulator:

Basically, Brawler´s Fury and Spell Combat are variants of TWF, so you can´t get them to work at the same time (or with TWF), same with Flurry of Blows, even on an Unchained Monk.

Now keep in mind that until 8th level, an Eldritch Scion can only use Spell Combat while mystic focus is active, making it a very limited resource as you now have to watch you eldritch pool as well as your spell slots. (Edit: until you hit 8th level)

So, basically, my advise would be to go with Magus (Eldritch Scion) // Unchained Monk (Scaled Fist) with the Ki Arcana to combine pools and alternate between Flurry and Spell Combat. Style Strike like Flying Kick are pretty good for this.

[Hackulator]

@Hackulator:

Basically, Brawler´s Fury and Spell Combat are variants of TWF, so you can´t get them to work at the same time (or with TWF), same with Flurry of Blows, even on an Unchained Monk.

Now keep in mind that until 8th level, an Eldritch Scion can only use Spell Combat while mystic focus is active, making it a very limited resource as you now have to watch you eldritch pool as well as your spell slots. (Edit: until you hit 8th level)

So, basically, my advise would be to go with Magus (Eldritch Scion) // Unchained Monk (Scaled Fist) with the Ki Arcana to combine pools and alternate between Flurry and Spell Combat. Style Strike like Flying Kick are pretty good for this.

I know Brawler's Flurry doesn't work with TWF, but I feel like, at least RAW, TWF and Spell Combat do, as TWF just says you get an additional attack, with no specifications on the kind of action you have to take unless I'm missing something.

I'll already be past level 8 so I'm not worried about that issue. I will also have a very large eldritch pool. I think I do need a level of brawler or monk in order to use my Eldritch Pool weapon enhancement on my fists, correct, to get the "A brawler’s unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that modify either manufactured weapons or natural weapons" ability?

[Florian]

Jepp, you´re missing something. Using a Full Attack, you must declare what you´re actually using to get the modifiers right, so you can either declare to use TWF or SC, but not both as they´re fundamentally the same. The only way around this is basing your build on triggers like the Critical Strike Arcana.

And you came to a wrong conclusion. IUS is enough to use the Arcane Pool, as you´re now considered to be "armed". The Brawler class feature "only" upgrades what spells or effect can be used.

[Kurald Galain]

I know Brawler's Flurry doesn't work with TWF, but I feel like, at least RAW, TWF and Spell Combat do
The wording on both SC and BF prohibits this. You do, however, get an extra attack from Haste, and the Magus has at least three ways to Haste himself whenever required.


I think I do need a level of brawler or monk in order to use my Eldritch Pool weapon enhancement on my fists,
Alternatively, you could wear gauntlets and use pool enhancement on that.

A surprisingly good gestalt combo for Magus is the Rogue, preferably the unchained version. You'll get a good reflex save plus evasion; ridiculous amounts of skill points; and a big damage boost from sneak attack (using e.g. Prescient Attack or Improved Invisibilty to trigger it). The Magus doesn't particularly need a full BAB since he has pool enchant.

[Hackulator]

The wording on both SC and BF prohibits this. You do, however, get an extra attack from Haste, and the Magus has at least three ways to Haste himself whenever required.


Alternatively, you could wear gauntlets and use pool enhancement on that.

A surprisingly good gestalt combo for Magus is the Rogue, preferably the unchained version. You'll get a good reflex save plus evasion; ridiculous amounts of skill points; and a big damage boost from sneak attack (using e.g. Prescient Attack or Improved Invisibilty to trigger it). The Magus doesn't particularly need a full BAB since he has pool enchant.

Yeah I know the Brawler isn't the BEST option, I just really like the fluff in my head of a brawler caster. Also don't forget it means I'll have an extra attack a round at a lot of levels. I'll be going arcane bloodline so I'll be hasted most of the time. I'm going to run into some action economy issues with swift actions but I'm pretty sure I'll be able to Nova people into the ground my second round of combat by having my arcane pool enhancement before combat, then activate bloodrage and use spell combat for some sort of buff or maybe just a nuke or debuff to soften them up, then full attack with brawler's flurry and haste.

[exelsisxax]

Yeah I know the Brawler isn't the BEST option, I just really like the fluff in my head of a brawler caster. Also don't forget it means I'll have an extra attack a round at a lot of levels. I'll be going arcane bloodline so I'll be hasted most of the time. I'm going to run into some action economy issues with swift actions but I'm pretty sure I'll be able to Nova people into the ground my second round of combat by having my arcane pool enhancement before combat, then activate bloodrage and use spell combat for some sort of buff or maybe just a nuke or debuff to soften them up, then full attack with brawler's flurry and haste.

I don't think you understand what people have been saying. 1: flurry and spell combat cannot be combined. 2: spell combat(through spellstrike) can already get you extra attacks similarly to brawler's flurry. 3: because spellstrike carries the extra damage or effects of a spell, spell combat is superior to brawler's flurry. C: there's no reason for a magus to want to flurry, ever.

Just do what kurald galain said and put gauntlets on. Same flavour, but isn't redundant as hell.

[Hackulator]

I don't think you understand what people have been saying. 1: flurry and spell combat cannot be combined. 2: spell combat(through spellstrike) can already get you extra attacks similarly to brawler's flurry. 3: because spellstrike carries the extra damage or effects of a spell, spell combat is superior to brawler's flurry. C: there's no reason for a magus to want to flurry, ever.

Just do what kurald galain said and put gauntlets on. Same flavour, but isn't redundant as hell.

Well first off, punching someone with gauntlets is clearly NOT the same as punching them with your bare fists.

Secondly, I might not want to use Spell Combat every round, in fact I might not even be able to, Admittedly I'll have a ton of spells but anti-magic and other stuff does happen.

Third, I also get a few other good things from Brawler.

As I said at the very beginning, I am aware this is not the most optimized option possible.

[Psyren]

I'd suggest using a Mindblade, and forming a pair of brass knuckles/cestus as your psychic weapon(s). That would get you the TWF double-punching AND spellstrike/spellcombat, without needing to go out and buy a weapon, and your TWF feats wouldn't be wasted.

[Hackulator]

I'd suggest using a Mindblade, and forming a pair of brass knuckles/cestus as your psychic weapon(s). That would get you the TWF double-punching AND spellstrike/spellcombat, without needing to go out and buy a weapon, and your TWF feats wouldn't be wasted.

Yeah but the whole point of the brawler concept is to just be using my fists and nothing else. I want to be a magical brawler (small b) and it seems like Brawler gets me there in the way I want with the fluff feel I want. I'm just looking for suggestions given that understanding.

[mistermysterio]

3rd party material okay?

[exelsisxax]

Yeah but the whole point of the brawler concept is to just be using my fists and nothing else. I want to be a magical brawler (small b) and it seems like Brawler gets me there in the way I want with the fluff feel I want. I'm just looking for suggestions given that understanding.

Well, there's where you're wrong. You have been told how to make a brawler Magus by basically everyone here, and your responses are always "But I want a Brawler Magus". The brawler class is garbage for pulling this off. It's not just sub-optimal, it's atrocious, because the rules simply do not work. If you want a magus with unarmed strikes, pick up a cestus and pretend it's bare knuckles. That's it, fluff done. Using the brawler class is NOT FLUFF, it's a ball and chain you've irrationally tied yourself to.

[Hackulator]

3rd party material okay?

It would require individual approval for each thing which I don't want to bother with, so no.

[mistermysterio]

It would require individual approval for each thing which I don't want to bother with, so no.

Alright. DSP has some fun ways you could mix up hand to hand and spells but if you don't want to get into it... *shrug*