How good are the Item Mastery feats?

[ATHATH]

As the title.

A link to all (most?) of the Item Mastery feats: http://archivesofnethys.com/Feats.aspx?Category=ItemMastery

Bonus question: Are they better/worse in a P6 setting?

[Necroticplague]

Frankly, none of them look very good. Most give relatively minor SLAs a on a scaling 1-3 times per day. Seems like it'd just be cheaper to grab a magic item that does whatever you want, instead of burning a feat. At low levels, only 1 use per day is a major pain, while at higher levels, the effects are so minor that the feat is essentially wasted.
Weapon Evoker Master breaks the mold by being at-will, but it's benefits are also incredibly minor (when 1d4 damage matters, you're not gonna have a weapon you can use it with).
Frankly, the only one I could see being of particular use is Resistance Mastery, if only because it can free up a shoulder slot.

[Florian]

The good ones are Teleportation Mastery (for Dimensional Agility w/o dipping) and Racial Item Mastery.

[Kurald Galain]

The best item feat is WEM, the equivalent of Weapon Specialization, which is decent but not great. A number of classes have better ways of using their swift action.

The others are just bad. If you want minor casting ability, take a one-level dip into any casting class and carry a bunch of scrolls around; or max out your UMD skill.

[eldskald]

I really like the dispel magic one. I will go against the flow that says they're bad, I don't really agree completely with it. It depends on your build. If you have feats to spare, they allow your martial beater to be more flexible and do things other than fighting. One of the greatest cons of playing a martial class is that you're usually unable to contribute to the party outside of fights. If you could cast invisibility, minor image, fly, dispel magic, telekinesis, suggestion and even healing spells, that would change a lot. If you're a barbarian or a fighter, I think they're decent.

[Kurald Galain]

If you could cast invisibility, minor image, fly, dispel magic, telekinesis, suggestion and even healing spells, that would change a lot.

While you are correct that in principle having these abilities would change a lot, the problem is that in practice the item mastery feats are a pretty bad an expensive way to obtain these abilities. For example, if you're a barbarian who wants to dispel things, then the Spell Sunder rage power is a much better way of doing this.

The problem with IM feats is not that they're a bad idea, but that they are much too restrictive in execution. This is why they're bad feats overall.

[The Random NPC]

They are also decent if you use some kind of martial flexibility to pick up Advanced weapon training and choose Item Mastery. Mostly because the feats are situationally useful and being able to have them when the situation pops up is nice. You can do it with Barroom Brawler and Combat Stamina or a dip in Brawler.

[Florian]

@Kurald Galain:

Got to disagree with you on this one. The main power is not directly using them, but they being a stepping stone towards fulfillment of other prereqs. For example, Dimensional Step-Up is something you will want on a melee character prepared for a high-level game and you can now get it in a neat package around 9th level.

[ATHATH]

Hm... Thought here:

Propose that you have, for the sake of example, a build of Occultist 1/Inquisitor 1/Fighter 1/Barbarian 1/Cleric 1/Monk 1 in an E6/P6 game. This would give you a base Fortitude save of +12, enough to give you quite a few uses per day from each of the Item Mastery feats. If you could snag an artifact or something that was made with a high-level healing spell (or cheese the requirements with Implement Mastery and the Living Grimoire archetype), you could even cast Breath of Life!

Basically, the build plays like a Sorcerer that has really good saves, has a few extra hit points, can cast in full plate, and... not much else, unless you start fishing for front-loaded classes and archetypes. Still, it's kind of a neat build, and searching for powerful magical items for you to tinker with might be a decent plot hook/motivation/backstory.

[Florian]

Hm... Thought here.

Get to the point. Yes, it´s true that the way the prereqs work, you can get certain spells all SLA via item mastery feats in a P6 game, pushing the "martial" beyond the "magical" limits.

[Kurald Galain]

For example, Dimensional Step-Up is something you will want on a melee character prepared for a high-level game and you can now get it in a neat package around 9th level.
Spending three feats on the highly situational ability to once-per-day follow a teleporting enemy? That's really not a good deal.


They are also decent if you use some kind of martial flexibility to pick up Advanced weapon training and choose Item Mastery. Mostly because the feats are situationally useful and being able to have them when the situation pops up is nice. You can do it with Barroom Brawler and Combat Stamina or a dip in Brawler.
This, however, is good. The item mastery feats aren't worth taking by themselves, but if you have a flex feat available they are a good option.


Propose that you have, for the sake of example, a build of Occultist 1/Inquisitor 1/Fighter 1/Barbarian 1/Cleric 1/Monk 1 in an E6/P6 game.
Paizo has stated that the fort save has to come from a single class. This is not official errata, but it makes it unlikely that you can pull this off, especially in an E6.

[Florian]

Spending three feats on the highly situational ability to once-per-day follow a teleporting enemy? That's really not a good deal.

Careful reading, KG. You just need to have it, nowhere does it say you´ve got to activate it.

[Kurald Galain]

Careful reading, KG. You just need to have it, nowhere does it say you´ve got to activate it.

Miss the point much? This is so extremely situational that spending three feats on it is a big waste. And that is if you can get your silly loophole past the GM.

[Florian]

Miss the point much? This is so extremely situational that spending three feats on it is a big waste. And that is if you can get your silly loophole past the GM.

We talk RAW and RAW you don´t need to activate it - that´s no "silly loophole" but just the way it is.

So please calm down your aggressive tone on this, as you should know that I´m always willing to talk RAI vs. Raw.

[Dr_Dinosaur]

A Tatterdemalion Witch that's proficient in Spiked Chains can use Equipment Mastery (Rope) to manipulate any rope or thread as if it were a Spiked Chain with the properties of the Prehensile Hair hex added onto it.

Otherwise the best use seems to be the Iron Caster

[Psyren]

These feats are intended for Fighters, specifically the Relic Master Fighter (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter/archetypes/paizo-fighter-archetypes/relic-master-fighter-archetype/). For Fighters, they have several advantages over using scrolls:

1) They use items that Fighters can craft by themselves (Fighters can't make scrolls).
2) They get full caster level (CL = BAB.)
3) The save DC, if applicable, will be much stronger (Based on Con rather than a minimum mental stat.)
4) No components (scrolls require verbalizing and suffer from ASF, while SLAs deal with neither.)

Note also that Telekinetic Mastery is a combat feat in addition to being an Item Mastery feat - this allows you to combine it with Abundant Tactics.

[eldskald]

Even without the silly loophole thing, I agree that they are restrictive and expensive feats, but I disagree that it makes them bad. It's all very build dependant. For example, let's say you are a full BAB class that's going with two handed weapons. What feats do you really need? Power attack and... That's it! Maybe Iron Will/Toughness/Steel Soul? That still leaves you with a lot of feats hanging around. If you have access to fighter feats, you would also want Weapon Specialization tree, but if you have access to them you probably have access to bonus feats by your class anyway. Maybe that's just my style, but in such character I'd rather get fly or invisibility than any of the combat maneuver feats or the combat expertise tree. Now if you're playing a Dex martial or a TWF one (or worse, a Dex TWF), stay away from those.

[Serafina]

"I have nothing better to take" really doesn't make them good feats though.

What does make them good feats is the Iron Caster build.
Have Weapon Training (most likely via being a Fighter), have Martial Flexibility (either via the Barroom Brawler feat, or more likely a Brawler-dip), and use that to take the Advanced Weapon Training Feat. Voila, now you can spontaneously take any of those feats - which would make this good even for a class that can already cast spells, never mind the Fighter.

At most, you can make a build out of a Fighter spending a feat on Telekinetic Mastery. With Abundant Tactics Adanced Weapon Training, you can start out with 4 uses per day.
Given that Telekinesis has a duration of several rounds (as long as you concentrate on it), you could engage in highly useful combat maneuvers at range with it. It's inherently flexible - Grapple the enemy casters, Disarm enemy archers, Trip enemy melee fighters, Bull Rush enemies into cliffs - has amazing range, and you're good at it without spending any more feats on it. And if in doubt, you can throw something heavy and dense at them once, with 1D6/caster level that can be a pretty nice finisher.

So basically, Item Mastery feats are a buff for the Fighter and not much else.