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View Full Version : Pathfinder PATHFINDER PLEASE Charm Sorc/Enchanting Courtesan Build NEEDS HELP PLEASE!



Anjay
2017-07-20, 01:04 AM
Hey so I am trying to make a great Sorcerer/ Enchanting Courtesan build that focuses on charming people and making them do what you want. So using charm person and suggestion a lot. So far what I have come up with is having a sorc with the infernal bloodline, then have her put 5 to 7 lvls in sorc, 7 so that you can get the bloodline bonus spell suggestion, then go enchanting courtesan for a prestige class. This way you can cast your touch spells and such on them without them noticing.
I was thinking stat-wise, get charisma as high as you can, then dex, constitution/intelligence/strength all seem to be equally important, then wisdom you don't want as a dump stat bc you'd want to be able to use perception and sense motive a lot as you rp seductively with the npc.
I am also thinking along the lines of going tiefling for the race and using the Rakshasa inheritance (+2cha & dex, -2 wis), keep the fiendish sorcery trait so that taking the infernal bloodline makes your charisma count as 2 points higher for abilities, spells/day, and dc, and take the pass for human trait so that you don't have to deal with the racism against tieflings.
Also take the leadership feat at lvl 7 and have a wizard that is dedicated to giving you transmutation stat boost, and also have the circlet that increases charisma based bonuses by 3. Also, the main spells known are likely to be a majority mix of enchanting and necromancy spells for enticing, controling, and making the enemies useless; have really only looked at core rulebook spells bc I don't know other spells.
So I want to hear people's opinions on this build and if you have any suggestions for how to make this even stronger. Or if you know of an even better build for what I am trying to achieve then please let me know. This type of build is what I will be playing as for my next character in pathfinder. Also, I think that the mind fog arcane spell is an amazing way to make people instantly fail their saves along with extremely high spell save DCs, but is there a way to counter the spell that I cast for myself? Like cast mind fog and walk into the area of effect to deliver a touch attack and not be affected by my own spell?
Please help me work these things out!

Geddy2112
2017-07-21, 09:40 AM
Infernal bloodline is pretty good, considering the +2 charm spell DC. Obviously you are taking spell focus(enchantment), and you should take the greater version as well. Have you considered going kitsune? They get a +1 to all enchantment spells racially and have great stats for a sorcerer. Vishkanya are also a really good choice mechanically and thematically. That said, Rakshasa tiefling is a really good choice as well.

You should dump strength to at least 8, you have absolutely no need for it. Most touch AC's are really easy to hit, and the enchanting touch is against willing targets anyways so you don't even need to roll. Get weapon finesse so you can bad touch off of dex. You don't need wisdom for the build in any way, just max ranks in sense motive(which you will be doing anyways) and bluff, throwing your pre enchanting courtsean extra skill ranks into arcana and the perform you choose. You get the class skill bonus retroactively, and a lot of ranks from enchanting courtesan to max out other skills. With rakshasa stats, I would go 8/16/14/12/8/18 on a 20 point buy, season to taste.

You don't need 7 levels in sorcerer, considering you can just get suggestion as a 3rd level spell since it is on the sorcerer list, and even with enchanting courtesan eating a level of spellcasting, you still get get access to suggestion as a spell by character level 7. Should the game go high enough where you need to go back into sorcerer levels and you get it then just retrain the spell/forget it and learn a new one. A 7th level bloodline feat is cool but none of them are so critical that you cannot live without. Spell penetration is good, but you can just grab it as one of your normal feats.

With high DC's and all of your bonuses, it will be pretty hard to resist your spells, ones delivered by enchanting touch being nearly impossible to save against(unless they are immune). As far as the mind fog trick, just place the spell outside your area, where the target is on the edge of the fog and touch them through it. If they are in mind fog or notice it they might become hostile and resist touch, but you can charm them at range and with a -10 and your high enchant DC it should work.

One thing with enchant builds is that they are feast or famine. In some situations, you will be incredibly useful but in others(namely against undead) you will be near useless. Threnodic spell has a steep barrier to entry and +2 spell slot is a tough pill to swallow. For those times things have very high will saves or are outright immune to mind affecting, charm/complusion, fear, what have you, have a backup spell you can throw. 1-2 spells per spell level should be dedicated to non enchantment spells, and this includes staple spells like haste, invisiblity, etc.

Anjay
2017-07-21, 11:00 AM
Yeah, Invisibility would definitely be a staple, I was thinking that I could use it to sneak and deliver a touch attack, then also have the condition trigger spell for if I get attacked in melee then use teleport to get me out of there.
Also decided to get leadership at lvl 7, this way I have a dedicated utility wizard to make up for my inability in combat and against undead. The wizard would also have the arcane discovery for perfection so the eagle's splendor enhancement that will be cast on me daily would be at a +6 and eventually +8, rather than +4, along with other enhancement spells.
And I have seen the threnodic spell mentioned in another thread, what is it?
As for race, the campaign that I designed this character for uses only core rules aside from certain races, classes, and certain arcane discoveries. And going Rakshasa tiefling was the best bc it makes my charisma count as 2 higher for spells and bloodline stuffs. That was the best way to get my effective charisma to be 22 for spells at lvl 1. And we don't get access to racial favored class bonuses...

Fouredged Sword
2017-07-21, 11:40 AM
Honestly, I would be tempted to attempt to shoehorn sudden still, sudden silent, eschew materials, and invisible spell into the mix. You want to be able to stand right in front of someone and hit them with charm person without giving the game away even if they pass their save. You can pass the still and silent issues off into metamagic rods if you can conceive of a pair of rods you can carry discreetly, ideally disguised as something else. I suggest a parasol and decorative cane.

Honestly, If you are not solidly attached to sorcerer I would suggest an Int/Cha telepath psion. They have a built in way to hide their casting without burning a serous amount of resources. You want a solid int anyway, as social skills are just so vital to your abilities. A 18 int / 14 cha psion will have better social skills than a 18 cha / 14 int sorcerer for no other reason than having the skill points to diversify. Psionic Charm is a hoss of a power, as is psionic suggestion.

Pathfinder. Sigh. Missed that.

Dr_Dinosaur
2017-07-21, 07:10 PM
I'd like to suggest an alternate route to take: the Mesmerist. Based entirely around manipulating people it seems like the ideal entry.

Vizier Mesmerist seems especially fun, as it lets you pretend someone else is using your spells and abilities which is good in the situations Enchanting Courtesan was built for.

Anjay
2017-07-21, 07:12 PM
I'd like to suggest an alternate route to take: the Mesmerist. Based entirely around manipulating people it seems like the ideal entry.

Vizier Mesmerist seems especially fun, as it lets you pretend someone else is using your spells and abilities which is good in the situations Enchanting Courtesan was built for.

Where is the mesmerist from?

Dr_Dinosaur
2017-07-21, 08:29 PM
Occult Adventures. It's a 6-level caster with a hypnotic stare and a bunch of manipulation and party support. All about the Enchanting Charismatic image

Azoth
2017-07-22, 04:54 AM
Dirge Bard2/Crossblooded Sorc (Impossible/Serpentine)4/Enchanting CourtesanX

Join a Mage's Guild (Inner Sea Magic) you can make up the 3 lost levels of Sorc spell progression that way for a bit of gold about 200gp +500GP/level depending on which guild you join.

Now you can Enchant anything that isn't a vermin/ooze to your heart's content.

Geddy2112
2017-07-23, 07:05 PM
Dirge Bard2/Crossblooded Sorc (Impossible/Serpentine)4/Enchanting CourtesanX

Join a Mage's Guild (Inner Sea Magic) you can make up the 3 lost levels of Sorc spell progression that way for a bit of gold about 200gp +500GP/level depending on which guild you join.

Now you can Enchant anything that isn't a vermin/ooze to your heart's content.
Crossblooding the undead bloodline also lets you affect undead with mind affecting, if you want to go that route. Threnodic spell will also do it, and since charm person is a first level spell you only need a 3rd level spell slot. It is a metamagic feat that lets your spells target undead if they were not for mind affecting spells.

If you really want to enchant everything, take a rank in druid, ranger, or hunter, and get the vermin heart feat, allowing you to enchant vermin too.

Powerdork
2017-07-23, 08:42 PM
I have seen the threnodic spell mentioned in another thread, what is it?

Not worth your time, (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/metamagic-feats/threnodic-spell-metamagic/) unless you want to buy a stick to hold (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/rods/metamagic-rods/metamagic-rod-threnodic/).

Anjay
2017-07-24, 11:23 PM
Lol, I see all of this about enchanting other creatures, but this character would be better off controling others and having them do that for her. Any suggestions on how to max out that type of character?

Anjay
2017-07-24, 11:27 PM
Thank you for all of the suggestions so far. Keep em coming. And most of her interactions would be with humans, elves, and actual pc races. Just to clarify.

Geddy2112
2017-07-25, 09:02 AM
If you are maxing your charisma, taking leadership, maxing diplomacy, taking spell focus enchantment and greater spell focus(enchantment) and having charm/dominate person, you are basically set. The powers of diplomancy are limited by your DM but the sky is theoritically the limit. How many allies and cohorts you can recruit from leadership depends on how you treat them and your charisma modifier, and those allies can take leadership, getting more cohorts...if your DM allows that. Leadership is usually banned for this reason.

Charming people and diplomacy will make them like you, but it is not mind control. They are your friends, but they won't do anything suicidal or contrary to their core beliefs. Once you have dominate person you can override their free will. With the enchanting courtesan at higher levels, you can effectively start or quench any rumor you want and run the city. Also, at high enough level your magic starts to get into truly city ending, so you could always go tyrannical and just destroy a city if you wanted, or use your powers for good and make everyone love you. How much of a god you can become is really limited to the tone/setting of your campaign and DM.

Hackulator
2017-07-25, 09:30 AM
I'd like to suggest an alternate route to take: the Mesmerist. Based entirely around manipulating people it seems like the ideal entry.

Vizier Mesmerist seems especially fun, as it lets you pretend someone else is using your spells and abilities which is good in the situations Enchanting Courtesan was built for.

I am playing a mesmerist in a game right now and I concur it's a great class.