Hobgoblin Military heirarchy(sp?)

[PlasticSoldier]

With 30,000 troops you would need a considerably large command structure so this thread is for the purposes of finding the Hobgoblin hierarchy.

My guesses and reasoning:
I believe that the hierarchy is based mainly on Cleric Ranks excluding Key officers who are appointed
1. Supreme Leader Redcloak (Self-evident)
2. General (Self-evident Note:Appointed)
3. Bluebelt (In 480 Redcloak told one to take over spellcasting duties)

Im not sure about

Purplebelt (Casts cure serious wounds 465 Min lvl 5
Greenbelt (casts 2xCure mod wounds 465 MIn lvl 3
Redbelt (IN 454 3 were commanding hundreds of archers. ONe shotted by lightning in 473 and decapitating kicked in 461

[David Argall]

The general rule of thumb is you can manage 5 underlings reasonably well. So there would be about 24,000 privates, 4800 corporals, 960 sergeants, 192 Lieutenants [with 192 master sergeants to keep them out of trouble], 36 captains, 7 coronels, and 1 or 2 generals, who report to Redcloak. The 2nd general probably takes care of staff positions such as the 300 clerics the army has, and maybe an arcane force as well.

There are of course currently a great many openings in this chain of command, including the chief general.

[PlasticSoldier]

Well i found six positions including redcloak so plus the footsoldiers

[kpenguin]

There are of course currently a great many openings in this chain of command, including the chief general.

Wait... when did the hobgoblin general fall?

[jamroar]

Wait... when did the hobgoblin general fall?
466 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0466.html), offscreen. Apparently he was squished by the falling castle block.

[PlasticSoldier]

The general fell on the cleric comic. He fell so hard it left cracks in the floor.
Ladies and gentlemen he fell so hard he fell through the floor. He fell from his mammoth. He fell from Honor. HE IS NO LONGER AMONG THE STANDING.HE HAS FELL FASTER THAN I CAN TYPE. HE HAS FALLEN FROM HIS MIGHTY WOOLY STEED LADIES AND GENTLEMEN HE IS AN EX-GENERAL.

[Capt'n Ironbrow]

They have an anachronistic hierarchy of their own. in strip 197, there's a good peek at the organisation, the rank of lieutenant is mentioned as well as the basic tactical unit, which is also the social unit of hobbos:

Hobgoblins live in "legions" of 300 creatures.
There are 87 of such legions.
There are 26100 hobbo's

Legions are led by a Chief (or legate if you want a rank fitting the unit-type, how anachronistic it may be as real world legions where 20 times bigger than Hobgoblin ones). This chief has some high level buddies as junior officers and NCO's say a legion is divided into 6 "cohorts" of 50, each made of 10 contubernia (squads) of 5 men led by an NCO. A chief could be ranked as Captain (and if we go etymological on yo' a$$, that's what captain originally meant). I leave character classes out here 'cause a cleric can also be an officer like Army chaplains in this world are officers too (Captain - Colonel, my uncle is a chaplain ranked as major) and high level fighters will be chiefs anyway (that's how goblinoid society works)

Now, Redcloak can't lead 87 legions on his own (it's said that the maximum force a single general can command without modern comm-equipment is 15,000 men, which is still 50 hobbo legions), so he likely organised brigades and battelgroups commanded by the highest level chiefs (duly promoted to a proper rank).

In the siege of the azure city, his army was divided into 3 divisions each commanded by a Xykon impersonator who likely had a warrant officer of General Rank to control the Hobbo's.
Each division was about 8700 hobbo's strong, that's 29 legions to a division.
Probably a division is subdivided into say 3 smaller units of 9-10 legions each, let's call it a brigade, led by a colonel/brigadier.

for hierarchy I'd say:
Hobbo Grunt
Hobbo Corporal/Sergeant (squad leader)
Hobbo Lieutenant (cohort leader or aide-de-camp)
Hobbo Captain/chief (legion leader)
Hobbo Colonel (brigade leader)
Hobbo General
Hobbo supreme leader.

there could be some sub-ranks like major (between captain and colonel) and ensign (between sergeant and lieutenant) as their 2nd in commands.

[warmachine]

It is highly unlikely that military rank depends on clerical rank as the hobgoblins aren't theocratic. Indeed their initiation rites depends on physical endurance, not knowledge of theology. Clerics being officers makes sense, though.

[factotum]

They have an anachronistic hierarchy of their own. in strip 197, there's a good peek at the organisation, the rank of lieutenant is mentioned as well as the basic tactical unit, which is also the social unit of hobbos:

Hobgoblins live in "legions" of 300 creatures.
There are 87 of such legions.
There are 26100 hobbo's


Actually, there's nothing to say that a "legion" has to contain only 300 members--in fact, some of them presumably have to have more, since there were supposed to be 30,000 hobgoblins in the attack on the city. All the hobgoblin said was that Legion 1 consisted of the 300 or so hobgoblins who lived in that valley.

Oh, and that was AFTER Redcloak and Xykon had killed a fair few of them in clearing the dangerous rocky path and sending the guard creature to sleep...

[Chrismith]

Actually, there's nothing to say that a "legion" has to contain only 300 members--in fact, some of them presumably have to have more, since there were supposed to be 30,000 hobgoblins in the attack on the city. All the hobgoblin said was that Legion 1 consisted of the 300 or so hobgoblins who lived in that valley.

Oh, and that was AFTER Redcloak and Xykon had killed a fair few of them in clearing the dangerous rocky path and sending the guard creature to sleep...

Actually, going by comic 413 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0413.html), the entire army has "at least 30,000 soldiers", including both hobgoblins and zombies. The hobgoblins had the AC army of 9,000 outnumbered by 3-to-1, so that would indicate 27,000 hobgoblins. Much closer to the 26,100 that would be indicative of 300-hobbo legions.

I'm not saying that this is an exact number, but by rough estimation, I would argue that approximately 300 hobgoblins in each legion is correct, not counting women and children.

Also note the MM entry (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/hobgoblin.htm) for Hobgoblins:


...tribe (30-300 plus 50% noncombatants plus 1 3rd-level sergeant per 20 adults, 1 or 2 lieutenants of 4th or 5th level, 1 leader of 6th-8th level, 2-4 dire wolves, and 1-4 ogres or 1-2 trolls)

We didn't see any wolves, ogres, or trolls (not that there are supposed to be a ton of them) but 300 seems to be the average upper bound for a hobbo group.

[factotum]

Well, 318 if you include the sergeants and the other leaders...maybe that's where Rich's "or so" came in!