"Can you attack through allies?"

[SangoProduction]

So, something exceedingly odd happened this session. The DM said you couldn't attack through allied squares. With reach weapons. I guess we need to go back in time and tell those damned Romans that they are breaking rules.

Anyway, I've never needed to find evidence that you can attack through allied squares. I also can't find anywhere that suggested you couldn't either (except for Soft Cover, which applies to ranged attacks). So the default should be to use the rules that are there: You can attack enemies within your reach.

But, just in case, in 20 more years of gaming, I find someone else who thinks that you can't attack through allies, can someone give me a quick argument for why you can?

EDIT: I am talking about Pathfinder, but I wouldn't mind for 3.5 as well.

[Psionic Dog]

The player's handbook states soft cover applies to melee attacks too and that reach weapons use ranged attack rules for determining cover.
See the wording and examples on page 151 of the players handbook.

[SangoProduction]

The player's handbook states soft cover applies to melee attacks too and that reach weapons use ranged attack rules for determining cover.
See the wording and examples on page 151 of the players handbook.
Unless the online sources are incorrect, it applies to Ranged attacks. Also, I forgot to mention that this was for pathfinder.


Creatures, even your enemies, can provide you with cover against ranged attacks, giving you a +4 bonus to AC. However, such soft cover provides no bonus on Reflex saves, nor does soft cover allow you to make a Hide check.

EDIT: OK, got the PDF open.


Soft Cover: Creatures, even your enemies, can provide you with
cover against ranged attacks, giving you a +4 bonus to AC. However,
such soft cover provides no bonus on Reflex saves, nor does soft
cover allow you to make a Hide check

And under general Cover header

To determine whether your target has
cover from your ranged attack, choose a
corner of your square.

EDIT again: It would appear as though the example gives further explanation: if it passes through a wall, a melee attacker has cover.

[SangoProduction]

Also, does anyone know why, in Pathfinder, Reach weapons obey the 1-2-1-2 rule for square distances? Was it just an inconsistency that they wanted to fix?

[Blymurkla]

When making a melee attack against a target that isn’t adjacent to you (such as with a reach weapon), use the rules for determining cover from ranged attacks.

I'm not allowed to post links yet, but it's from here paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/coreRulebook/combat.html

I think this should help you.

[Psyren]

Unless the online sources are incorrect, it applies to Ranged attacks. Also, I forgot to mention that this was for pathfinder.


EDIT: OK, got the PDF open.



And under general Cover header


EDIT again: It would appear as though the example gives further explanation: if it passes through a wall, a melee attacker has cover.

You missed this line:

"When making a melee attack against a target that isn't adjacent to you (such as with a reach weapon), use the rules for determining cover from ranged attacks."

[SangoProduction]

Oh. I think I did miss that. Thanks. OK. So they'd have soft cover for attacking through someone.

[Psyren]

That's the line Psionic Dog was referring to. He cited the PHB, but the CRB's combat chapter is nearly identical.

[toomuchcoffee]

You can use the feat Phalanx Formation (in Pathfinder at least) to attack through allies and avoid having them provide soft cover.

Doesn't work through enemies though. Also, note that if you have soft cover, you cannot use AOOs. Which is a bummer for a reach weapon user.