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AtomicKitKat
2007-08-08, 12:06 AM
So I'm pretty sure most anyone who's read through the back of Complete Warrior knows about the "Drummer" build, using Lightning Mace to score 0-infinity extra attacks per round, based on the number of criticals you threaten. There's also his lesser brother, Roundabout Kick(I think that's the one. Also in CW. Similar concept, but using unarmed attacks)

My question is this. What happens if you use these with a Coup De Grace? Is it an automatic kill?:smallbiggrin: More specifically, does:


You automatically hit and score a critical hit.

count towards this:


Whenever you hit and threaten with your light mace, you immediately get another attack with the weapon.

?

:smallbiggrin:

Edit: In theory, you should only get 1 extra attack in that same round, but what if you had the feats that let your CdGs become Move/Standard/Attack actions? Would it lead to an infinite number of attacks until the helpless opponent explodes in a crimson mist?

Jasdoif
2007-08-08, 12:10 AM
The problem: the feat specifically says "whenever you roll a threat on an attack roll." You're not making an attack roll to coup de grace here.

Miles Invictus
2007-08-08, 12:11 AM
I wouldn't allow it, because coup de grace attacks are intended to give characters a chance of survival...if they're really, really, really resilient.

Rulewise, however, I'd say that a coup de grace does not trigger Lightning Mace, because you never actually threaten a critical.

daggaz
2007-08-08, 12:29 AM
And even if you had the feats to change CdG somehow into a normal attack roll (whatever those feats might be...), you would still only get one extra attack. I see no possibility of an infinite loop here.

AtomicKitKat
2007-08-08, 12:41 AM
And even if you had the feats to change CdG somehow into a normal attack roll (whatever those feats might be...), you would still only get one extra attack. I see no possibility of an infinite loop here.

Actually, that's exactly why it would become an infinite loop, if an automatic critical is also an automatic threat. In this case, because you get to make it as an attack action, you use your extra attack to make another CdG, which triggers another attack, ad infinitum. It doesn't really work as well if it's standard/move action(Champions of Ruin has at least one of these).

LeeMon
2007-08-08, 07:34 PM
But isn't a coup de grace a full-round action?

Quietus
2007-08-08, 07:50 PM
Even if CdG qualified to give you a free attack with lightning Mace, your free attack would be just that - an attack, not a CdG. As was pointed out above me, CdG are full round actions, not attack actions.

AtomicKitKat
2007-08-08, 10:04 PM
Even if CdG qualified to give you a free attack with lightning Mace, your free attack would be just that - an attack, not a CdG. As was pointed out above me, CdG are full round actions, not attack actions.

Hence my caveat about getting another feat to turn the CdG into an attack action(I know there's at least a couple that reduce it from FRA to SA or MA). Anyways, I was away from book when I posted the OP. Reading it last night, I noticed it says "roll" a lot, so this is probably moot. Still, was an interesting thing to think about.