Background and enemies for a lvl 2 3-man party hard encounter

[Citan]

Hi all!

I'm a bit ashamed to ask for help yet again for something that seems trivial, but I cannot wrap my head around an encounter that would provide challenge and novelty to my party.

It's composed of...
- a level 2 Elf Rogue (having difficulty with game mechanics),
- a level 2 Variant Human Ranger (who ditched 1st level spells in exchange for a homebrew "permanent" Speak with Animals and grabbed Sharpshooter),
- a level 2 Death Cleric / Monk that has Chill Touch and Inflict Wounds, another spell (don't remember), Thaumaturgy (which he puts to great use for distractions / persuasions) but no healing whatsoever because "against his beliefs".

All three are bipolar: Rogue is usually a coward but sometimes grows a pair at the worst moment (facing enemies that can one-shot him), Ranger starts at a distance but somewhat goes and chase enemy, Monk usually fails his main quarterstaff attack but hits with his bonus action (don't ask why, that's a trend that usually holds true XD).
Players are not very keen on teamwork, and in-character doesn't help either since both of them just encountered each other (arguably a fail on my part, I should have ensured they have some ties at character creation. For my defense though, they all joined at different times).

So far, each "pair" has made one mission together: one stealth steal in a isolated house (which ended not sneaky), one stealth investigation in a big manor (which succeeded), one guard mission in a shipyard (which succeeded).

As they finally have a chance to play all together, and have worked for a criminal organization (and making contact with competitors), I've been trying to set up a mission that would mix stealth, investigation and end (probably) in a big fight.

Because I made the organisation they work for have smuggling of rare creatures and drugs, and this organization is currently in great tension with another one, I've been considering the following scenarios...

1. Escort a smuggling ship which gets attacked midway by competitor pirates (but a bit afraid of how to handle this, and of them having no retreat in case things go sour).

2. Attack a competitor's hideout (but how to justify that? I think it would be a pretty stupid decision to make from the organization. Also, there is no investigation/stealth component apart from closing in hidden).

3. Contribute in a hunting party to capture rare creatures (but then which one? I was thinking Unicorn, would that be coherent?).

My questions.
1. If I go "escort ship", what marine creature could I use as a quick encounter to give them a feeling of danger? Giant Octopus is too weak imo (action economy), but Kraken would be a *tad* too much XD.
Also, could that be an interesting challenge considering the party setup? Feels a bit too "plain and direct" to me.

2. If I go "big encounter in enemy mafia's hideout"...
a) They would be obviously outnumbered as is. I should probably give them an NPC to order around: which NPC would be the best: healer? AOE caster? meat shield?
b) Also, what kind of secondary mission could I give ("steal an object" is out, they took that kind of mission just before)?

3. If I go "hunting grounds", what creatures would be worth smuggling? And what guardians could such a creature count on (was thinking a few Pixies and Sprites in case of Unicorn)?

Thanks in advance for any feedback you could provide, even on only one question. ;)

(The reasons I struggle so much is that they tend to go wild on each and any occasion and, while I'm putting progressive limits by making the world react to their actions -especially unjustified violence-, I don't want to restrict them too much: after all, its the kind of game they like -even if it's frustrating for me at times XD-. So I'm having trouble finding a setting in which they can be creative but still manageable. And one player is very sensitive to failing, so I cannot yet make them face overwhelming opposition).

[Finger6842]

A horrible group with zero synergy. Unless you want a TPK avoid hard encounters for a bit. Animal smuggling would never be allowed by a Ranger. Rangers are outdoor dependent to really shine, rogues are better indoors, priests that don't heal the party would be left to hang by the other party members. In short perhaps you should run a political campaign that sends them out individually to accomplish tasks and a patron that punishes them for not working together, perhaps some ruffians that rob them when they are solo so they are dependent on the patron.

[smcmike]

Animal smuggling would never be allowed by a Ranger.


Rangers do not have to be guardians. They could be big game hunters.



Rangers are outdoor dependent to really shine, rogues are better indoors, priests that don't heal the party would be left to hang by the other party members.


So long as the priest is doing something useful, who cares if he heals? It's not like the other characters are healing anyone. Also, rangers and rogues both work fine indoors or out.

[Unoriginal]

1. If I go "escort ship", what marine creature could I use as a quick encounter to give them a feeling of danger? Giant Octopus is too weak imo (action economy), but Kraken would be a *tad* too much XD.
Also, could that be an interesting challenge considering the party setup? Feels a bit too "plain and direct" to me.


Four Sahuagins. Have them use axes to try to pierce the bottom of the ship's hull to sink it. The PCs will have to figure out the problem, and then deal with an underwater menace who's damaging the ship.

It should cause the players to go "oh crap", but still not take too much time.

You could then have a second encounter later with a Sahuagin Priestess with a few sharks, as an encore.



2. If I go "big encounter in enemy mafia's hideout"...
a) They would be obviously outnumbered as is. I should probably give them an NPC to order around: which NPC would be the best: healer? AOE caster? meat shield?

A martial artist. Because a big kung-fu fight against lots of mafia mooks is awesome.



b) Also, what kind of secondary mission could I give ("steal an object" is out, they took that kind of mission just before)?

Why not "infiltrate a fancy party to talk with an informant who can tell them infos to help succeed their main mission" ?



3. If I go "hunting grounds", what creatures would be worth smuggling?

An Owlbear.



And what guardians could such a creature count on (was thinking a few Pixies and Sprites in case of Unicorn)?

A level 3 Arcane Trickster Rogue who is pretending to be a Druid by using a disguise and a wand containing a weak Druid spell (like Goodberry) and who offers to "guide" people through the forest, only to lead them in a trap where they get eaten by the Owlbear (and so allow the Rogue to loot them).

[Finger6842]

Rangers do not have to be guardians. They could be big game hunters.

PHB p89 says otherwise, but you are correct, with DM buy in he can be whatever he wants. It's both the strength and the weakness of 5e.




So long as the priest is doing something useful, who cares if he heals? It's not like the other characters are healing anyone. Also, rangers and rogues both work fine indoors or out.

Well, the Ranger also could have healed but also chose not to. And Rangers don't excel in short range environments, is he going to talk with animals in the undead crypt? How about that rogue, 2 orcs with bows at range and he doesn't make it.

No healing, no defense, and 3 adventurers completely focused on their RP with no consideration for party survival. Is it your assertion that this is a strong functional party? I can tell you for sure if I'm that rogue the other 2 will not see dawn after I take a few beatings on their behalf. On the plus side, it'll be interesting.

[smcmike]

PHB p89 says otherwise, but you are correct, with DM buy in he can be whatever he wants. It's both the strength and the weakness of 5e.


Funnily enough, the ranger description doesn't say anything about protecting wild animals from people - the fluff is entirely about protecting civilization from wild animals and savages! It's also fluff.



Well, the Ranger also could have healed but also chose not to. And Rangers don't excel in short range environments, is he going to talk with animals in the undead crypt?

Rats? Talking with animals is nice, but it's not the core of the class anyways.



How about that rogue, 2 orcs with bows at range and he doesn't make it.

It wasn't clear to me that the rogue doesn't have a ranged weapon. If he doesn't, he should!



No healing, no defense, and 3 adventurers completely focused on their RP with no consideration for party survival. Is it your assertion that this is a strong functional party?


Strong? No, not really, but maybe they can pull it together. All three have access to good stealth abilities, which is something most groups lack, so that's something.



I can tell you for sure if I'm that rogue the other 2 will not see dawn after I take a few beatings on their behalf. On the plus side, it'll be interesting.

Why is the rogue taking the beating? The monk/cleric is a front-liner too!

[Citan]

A horrible group with zero synergy. Unless you want a TPK avoid hard encounters for a bit. Animal smuggling would never be allowed by a Ranger. Rangers are outdoor dependent to really shine, rogues are better indoors, priests that don't heal the party would be left to hang by the other party members. In short perhaps you should run a political campaign that sends them out individually to accomplish tasks and a patron that punishes them for not working together, perhaps some ruffians that rob them when they are solo so they are dependent on the patron.
Well, they DO have synergy... When it's about making a mess of things. That they usually agree with. :smallbiggrin:

Otherwise, teamwork is indeed reduced to the minimum usually. ^^ Although they do tend to improve with time.

Rangers do not have to be guardians. They could be big game hunters.

So long as the priest is doing something useful, who cares if he heals? It's not like the other characters are healing anyone. Also, rangers and rogues both work fine indoors or out.
True that Rangers are not necessarily always animal lovers, but my player's character is one of such. But, since he's also clearly chaotic evil (from his actions so far at least), I wondered how he would react.

In fact, that was the reason I thought hiring them for game-hunting would be a nice idea, because it would put at least one of them with a tough moral choice. Now that I think about it, it's also risking an immediate blow-up of the party since they have to tight relationships with one anothers, so I'm not sure that's such a good idea anymore. XD


P
No healing, no defense, and 3 adventurers completely focused on their RP with no consideration for party survival. Is it your assertion that this is a strong functional party? I can tell you for sure if I'm that rogue the other 2 will not see dawn after I take a few beatings on their behalf. On the plus side, it'll be interesting.
I think this is a nice sum up. As said though, it's half-expected considering characters are not friends with each other and having each their own diverging goals.

Also, to be honest, I'm making much room for them to get things riled up for now, while they are familiarizing with the system, and making them earn a level-up "milestone ways" for now so they quickly get their concept fully online (so level 3-4). I warned them though that I'd be stricter and stricter as they level up and gain more understanding of mechanics. So they ought to pace themselves soon enough, because when they hit level 5 I will hold barrels no more. :)



Four Sahuagins. Have them use axes to try to pierce the bottom of the ship's hull to sink it. The PCs will have to figure out the problem, and then deal with an underwater menace who's damaging the ship.

It should cause the players to go "oh crap", but still not take too much time.

You could then have a second encounter later with a Sahuagin Priestess with a few sharks, as an encore.



A martial artist. Because a big kung-fu fight against lots of mafia mooks is awesome.



Why not "infiltrate a fancy party to talk with an informant who can tell them infos to help succeed their main mission" ?



An Owlbear.



A level 3 Arcane Trickster Rogue who is pretending to be a Druid by using a disguise and a wand containing a weak Druid spell (like Goodberry) and who offers to "guide" people through the forest, only to lead them in a trap where they get eaten by the Owlbear (and so allow the Rogue to loot them).
@Unoriginal: thank you very much for the detailed proposals (just disagree on NPC, because my Monk may feel tiptoed upon, I'll probably get a Barbarian instead or a Bard). ;) Thanks to you and others (and my own thinking meanwhile) I think I'll do some of a mix: main mission, get into an enemy hideout and kidnap a people with sensitive information, with secondary mission being locating, tracking and capturing an owlbear. Because it's on the other side of a big lagoon, go there by ship to make it faster (I'll find any reason why they cannot take their time, should not be hard).

Knowing them, just the ship part should be enough for tonight (they are, like, proficient AND Experts in "side-tracking" skill XD). And it does not really need tactical map either, which is a plus (had to work hard all week, no time to prepare in detail*).

Thanks a bunch!
And on that note, off I go ;)


*Ok, if I spent all the hours being here writing on GoTP on campaign preparation instead, I'd probably have enough for at least a dozen sessions. Totally my fail, I'm weak. :smallbiggrin:

[Unoriginal]

@Unoriginal: thank you very much for the detailed proposals

You're welcome!



(just disagree on NPC, because my Monk may feel tiptoed upon, I'll probably get a Barbarian instead or a Bard).


Rival martial artists are awesome, though.

The NPC could goad the PC in a competition over who beats the more enemies.

[Finger6842]

The ideas you have for campaigns are really good. I hope the party stands up and makes an adventure of it. The Owlbear / shipwreck items from Citan sound like a lot of fun and the shared stealth sounds like something to work with. I really was unaware the level 1 death cleric/monk would have stealth so nice catch to smcmike.

I think your animal smuggling ring idea is strongest. The party should be really good out of combat with a lot of roles covered. NPC interaction will be interesting to say the least. I imagine the Cleric is intimidating, again adding to the RP. Tracking and subduing the animal should be easy with a ranger around. Avoiding random encounters is possible so that should also RP well. The rogue can gather Intel and make connections.

Perhaps add a betrayal element, let them choose to infiltrate and betray thus earning a good reputation with the city OR take over the supply side of the business earning cash but possible indentured servitude if they are captured. Little fish in a big pond kind of tension. No matter which option they choose, raising the stakes should be easy for the next leg.

[Unoriginal]

Oh, a Merrow with a couple of mooks could make a good encounter, too.

[Cap'm Bubbles]

My questions.
1. If I go "escort ship", what marine creature could I use as a quick encounter to give them a feeling of danger? Giant Octopus is too weak imo (action economy), but Kraken would be a *tad* too much XD.
Also, could that be an interesting challenge considering the party setup? Feels a bit too "plain and direct" to me.

2. If I go "big encounter in enemy mafia's hideout"...
a) They would be obviously outnumbered as is. I should probably give them an NPC to order around: which NPC would be the best: healer? AOE caster? meat shield?
b) Also, what kind of secondary mission could I give ("steal an object" is out, they took that kind of mission just before)?

3. If I go "hunting grounds", what creatures would be worth smuggling? And what guardians could such a creature count on (was thinking a few Pixies and Sprites in case of Unicorn)?


1) If you only want one enemy for this encounter, you can try a Merrow. Similar HP to the giant octopus, but with multiple attacks, including ranged. If action economy is the problem, you'll really have to pick multiple weaker enemies over a single target. Merfolk are an option here. If the party has an equal number of allies, you could be so bold as to throw a Water Elemental at them, or a Water Weird if that's too much. If you wanted something mechanically different, a Sea Hag could work too. It's hard to give a party that's undersized and level 2 anything more complex than the plain and direct approach you want to avoid.

2) The party's effective HP is their second greatest weakness (the first being lack of cooperation). They would be best off either with a healer or a meat shield (especially an expendable one; I'm thinking some half-orc merc that just joined the same criminal organization for a quick paycheck as hired muscle).
As for the objective, you could try the opposite of stealing: planting. Their organization could want them to smuggle into the other guy's base either some magical item for spying/scrying, or something that was stolen and is actively pursued by the authorities or a third party (i.e. plant the crown jewels that were recently stolen by your guys' organization in the other place as a frame job).
You could also go for an intimidation job. Perhaps have the party sneak in to commit arson or vandalism on this organization's stash of...whatever, really (illegal materials, fancy paintings, baby pictures, etc.). Or, have them kill the head honcho's prized [whatever rare creature] and move some part of the corpse into his bedroom for a rude awakening the next day. So what if The Godfather already did it? It works, and that's what counts.

3) Some options I can think of besides Unicorn are a Flail Snail (if you have Volo's), a Basilisk (or at least its nest), a Griffon, or a pair of Hippogriffs. It's tough doing this kind of thing at level 2 because most creatures involved will either kill players in one hit, or be killed by the party before the first round is over. The unicorn with pixie or sprite guardians is probably your best bet for an appropriate encounter.

[Citan]

Hey ;)
Back again.
Thank you all for the additional input in-between, especially Cap'm Bubbles for another proposal of encounters for each situation.

I'll make sure to use at least one proposition of each of you to make sure this advice wasn't wasted. ;)

Now for the reason why I'm in a very strong love&hate relationship with them as a DM.

We started the session with 2 of them meeting with the local chief, presenting them the next mission (capture rare creatures on the usual hunting ground of competitor, to make a message although with more subtility than just bust&kill directly the guys).
Good reaction of the Ranger, who does finally love the animals, and argues that there is no way he will help in doing that... But would be glad to help freeing the animals.

Good RP, decent idea (net loss of income for us, but still a good way to make a message, also improves relationships with locals) so chief accepts the change of plans.
Gives them three hours to prepare before meeting in front of the ship that will make the travel across the lagoon, and a 5gp budget to grab some things in the internal armory.

I was expecting a bit of a negociation and discussion, thought that the whole "explain mission & equip" would take like 35mn max, so we could at least live the "ship encounter" part.
HA.
HA.
HA.

Started at 9PM, had to stop at 11 PM: guys just arrived at the port. Spent the whole two hours arguing and negociating with two merchants to try and get their hands on anything, buying or stealing: the guy from the guild and an herborist.

Not technically a bad thing because overall everyone had fun (I asked them to be sure when stopping because I was kinda afraid of the contrary), although one of the three hogged the majority of the time (so one guy was mainly listening and ultimately dropped focus, a fail on my part :/).
And it did incite them to be more knowledgeable about equipment (especially potions and their horrendous prices), at least now I shouldn't have to manage their ammunitions and such for them.
Still... *shrugs* That's where I'm really facing my inexperience handling this kind of behaviour, not knowing when or how to put a hard limit without breaking the ambiance. Because, considering how hard it is to gather everyone around roll20 for a session, I'd like to make true progress in the campaign to avoid the problem of "by the way, where were we, what were we doing? Cannot remember" which plagues us regularly (even me, although I do make notes of the general things)...
But side-tracking experts are indeed hard to get back on the right track, for me at least (especially when there is no strong reaction of boreness from others).

Anyways... If there are some interested, I'll make a quick review of how I setup the ship and how they fared, if that can help someone else.
And sorry for this kinda rant, which just illustrates how far I can still progress as a DM (not that I had any doubts on that in the first place XD).:smallbiggrin:

[Finger6842]

Hey ;)
Back again.
Thank you all for the additional input in-between, especially Cap'm Bubbles for another proposal of encounters for each situation.

I'll make sure to use at least one proposition of each of you to make sure this advice wasn't wasted. ;)

Now for the reason why I'm in a very strong love&hate relationship with them as a DM.

We started the session with 2 of them meeting with the local chief, presenting them the next mission (capture rare creatures on the usual hunting ground of competitor, to make a message although with more subtility than just bust&kill directly the guys).
Good reaction of the Ranger, who does finally love the animals, and argues that there is no way he will help in doing that... But would be glad to help freeing the animals.

Good RP, decent idea (net loss of income for us, but still a good way to make a message, also improves relationships with locals) so chief accepts the change of plans.
Gives them three hours to prepare before meeting in front of the ship that will make the travel across the lagoon, and a 5gp budget to grab some things in the internal armory.

I was expecting a bit of a negociation and discussion, thought that the whole "explain mission & equip" would take like 35mn max, so we could at least live the "ship encounter" part.
HA.
HA.
HA.

Started at 9PM, had to stop at 11 PM: guys just arrived at the port. Spent the whole two hours arguing and negociating with two merchants to try and get their hands on anything, buying or stealing: the guy from the guild and an herborist.

Not technically a bad thing because overall everyone had fun (I asked them to be sure when stopping because I was kinda afraid of the contrary), although one of the three hogged the majority of the time (so one guy was mainly listening and ultimately dropped focus, a fail on my part :/).
And it did incite them to be more knowledgeable about equipment (especially potions and their horrendous prices), at least now I shouldn't have to manage their ammunitions and such for them.
Still... *shrugs* That's where I'm really facing my inexperience handling this kind of behaviour, not knowing when or how to put a hard limit without breaking the ambiance. Because, considering how hard it is to gather everyone around roll20 for a session, I'd like to make true progress in the campaign to avoid the problem of "by the way, where were we, what were we doing? Cannot remember" which plagues us regularly (even me, although I do make notes of the general things)...
But side-tracking experts are indeed hard to get back on the right track, for me at least (especially when there is no strong reaction of boreness from others).

Anyways... If there are some interested, I'll make a quick review of how I setup the ship and how they fared, if that can help someone else.
And sorry for this kinda rant, which just illustrates how far I can still progress as a DM (not that I had any doubts on that in the first place XD).:smallbiggrin:
I would like to hear about the ship setup. I haven't done any waterborne adventures yet.

[Cap'm Bubbles]

I'd like to hear about it; the shipboard encounters I've played in were all mechanically strange, so I'd like to hear about a more coherent one. I've also got a buddy DMing a pirate campaign soon, so I wouldn't mind something to get me in the mood.

[FreddyNoNose]

Funnily enough, the ranger description doesn't say anything about protecting wild animals from people - the fluff is entirely about protecting civilization from wild animals and savages! It's also fluff.



Rats? Talking with animals is nice, but it's not the core of the class anyways.



It wasn't clear to me that the rogue doesn't have a ranged weapon. If he doesn't, he should!



Strong? No, not really, but maybe they can pull it together. All three have access to good stealth abilities, which is something most groups lack, so that's something.



Why is the rogue taking the beating? The monk/cleric is a front-liner too!

From the first ed adnd Players handbook: Rangers are a sub-class of fighter who are adept at woodcraft, tracking,
scouting, and infiltration and spying.

[Citan]

I'd like to hear about it; the shipboard encounters I've played in were all mechanically strange, so I'd like to hear about a more coherent one. I've also got a buddy DMing a pirate campaign soon, so I wouldn't mind something to get me in the mood.

Hey again!

Thanks to all ideas that were provided, I decided to go for a mix.

Since the players bent the initial objective from "capture" to "free" animals to sap a competing mafia, my rough planning will go as such...

1. Travel: Sahuagins encounters (I'm just wondering why Sahuagins would target this specific ship, considering it's not displaying any riches, but well).
The Sahuagin idea is nice because it gives drama, forces tactical play, and gives some leeway in how to end it.

2. On Shore: the new objective has been "neutralize the smuggling hideout, free animals, DON'T kill unnecessarily and try to hide your identity so it can't be tracked back".

I'll come back to detail the Shore part later.

FOr now, the planning for Ship Encounter.

The party will embark from the mafia's controlled port, on that ship (http://dungeonsmaster.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/liar-assault-1-season-2-map-b.jpg). They use a ship to cross a big lagoon because it's still faster than to make all the circle through roads, also it's more discreet.
I'll announce that the travel should normally take around 3 hours.
Ship will be populated with the captain and assorted ~10 marines (considering the ship size I'd say it's reasonable: 6-7 marines for all manoeuvers, cook, captain's assistant...). All are criminals so they know how to fight, although obviously not as well as the party... Except this time it's on sea.

I'll give 30 minutes of "free time" to the party to check on the boat: giving the Monk a chance to get information on the mafia (he's actually a journalist trying to expose their activities, to *greatly* summarize) by befriending people, letting the Ranger (the true animal lover) train his brand new spider pets (just pets, no NPC), allowing Rogue to sneak around and do I don't know what, or just study his big magic training book (he's going Arcane Trickster on next level).

Since not that far from shore, they'll have some seagulls flying around, so maybe the Ranger will try and ask them for information about weather (storm is coming!!) or maybe befriend them enough so they warn him when seeing fast movements just under the sea... Or maybe ask the rats on ship to go fetch documents or so...

Well, honestly I don't know what they would do, but my idea is to give them time to "install" themselves into a peaceful state of mind. Past 30 mn, whatever they did, captain will announce a growing tempest and ask people to stop whatever hobby to help secure the ship. Captain will be a Druid NPC that failed his studies, knowing only a few spells (Goodberry, Healing Words, Gust of Wind, Gust, Shape Water, Mending), chosen to command the ship mainly because of his wind/water related skills and ability to sustain equipage and ship for long travels. His assistant will only know the Mending and Shape Water cantrips.

Sahuagins will attack by surprise when the wind and sea already started growing uneasingly, up to the point normal people would have trouble keeping stand.
3 of them will jump on the bridge. After 30 sec, 1 other will try and crack a hole in the ship from below, with no opposing force because of the distraction (only one mariner that will flee away to warn everyone when seeing the hole).
I'll then put a timer, informing that if nothing is done, ship will sink.

Obviously the equipage won't stay useless, but storm prevents everyone to fight. Only 3 of them, plus the assistant, will be able to assist, trying to encircle one or two Sahuagins.
Captain will have to stay at the helm as well but will (maybe) cast Gust of Wind to try and push away enemies, while directing his assistant to go and repair the hull.

I want to give them a fair deal of pressure but keep it winnable. I would have added one more Sahuagin at first, but considering their features I think 3 at once is already far enough.
Especially since, after 5mn or so, tempest will be so strong that they will be at disadvantage on everything (I'll tell them in advance in a narrative way).

The best tactic for them would probably be to pick off deck Sahuagins one by one then escort the assistant. Not sure what escape to give them if things go hairy though.