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khachaturian
2017-07-21, 01:55 PM
I was initially thinking about taking champion up to level 6 and then going cleric, but looking at the fighter's level progression, even though the gains aren't particularly sexy, they are pretty good at making you better at your job, which is hitting things with a pointy stick. The way the chassis is set up, your action is accounted for by hitting things. Your bonus action can be used by action surge, second wind, and hopefully extra attacks from the cleave function of great weapon master with all of your sexy crits. Nothing really on reactions unless somebody is foolish enough to trigger an opportunity attack, but I wouldn't really bank on this happening to often.

So, the question is whether anyone have any ideas or experience with dips on champion. As a thought experiment, I went through the classes in a sort-of systematic way

Barbarian
- one level gets you two rages a day
- two levels gets you reckless attack. while this is really, good, utility is limited by the fact that this is probably only viable if you are using rage to mitigate damage

Bard
one level gets you bardic inspiration, which is a bonus action. while this competes the other ones listed above, i guess that with its duration and not requiring concentration, and you can just drop them here and there
spellcasting the cantrips and level one spells don't offer a whole lot of synergy. They would mostly be cast out-of-combat, since you want to use your action to hit things. I suppose that spells like feather fall, healing word, and long strider could have a place, but it doesn't really justify what you are giving up in fighter levels
jack of all trades is interesting, but doesn't really make you better at hitting things.

Cleric
spell casting comes out a little bit ahead of bard for a few reasons. 1. guidance is really good. 2. you can cast sanctuary and shield of faith as bonus actions
knowledge meh
life barely better than knowledge
light ok defensive buff, but you don't really get enough uses to make it worthwhile
nature this domain probably only works on single class melee clerics who dump strength to use shillelagh
tempest finally something that lets you use your reaction. too bad it's not that great. if you take two levels, you can maximize your wrath of the storm damage with channel divinity. or if you happen upon a javelin of lightning damage, you can maximize a potential crit
trickery advantage is pretty good, but using up an action to create your double isn't. makes me think about total recall
war bonus action extra attacks. bonus action domain spells. guided strike once per short rest.

Druid
spell casting just as bad as the bard list

Monk
Ki dodge and disengage seem underwhelming

Paladin
Fighting style would be blue if you were sword and board, but you are a greataxe wielding engine of crit destruction
Lay on hands you just need 1 HP to go from zero to back in the fight
Smite good synergy with your mastery of crits
spellcasting isn't for you. your slots power smites

Ranger
Natural explorer depends if you are using PHB or UA version. A one level dip in UA lets you go first and have advantage on all attacks in the first round. stacks nicely with the power attack function of GWM. ignoring difficult terrain and+2 damage to humanoids isn't bad either. This is probably only a one level dip since casting isn't that important to you. Hunter's mark suffers from the problem of competing for bonus action with your crits. Goodberry and long strider are ok, but not worth a level.

Rogue
Sneak attack should be great, giving dice that can be doubled on a crit, but it only works on finesse or ranged weapons. While you could build a rapier wielding dex fighter who is champion 3/rogue x, that's not really what this discussion is about. This is about champion x/dip 1-2
Expertise ok if you want to use one of your attacks to prone an enemy
Cunning action your job is to stand toe-to-toe, not run away

Sorcerer
Spellcasting shield and feather fall are both reactions
Tides of chaos not the best, not the worst. Portent is better if you are going down this path

Warlock
Everybody seems to love this as a two-level dip, but I don't see the appeal. Outside of Devil's Sight cheese low-level invocations don't help you out much. Dark One's Blessing is a nice source of temps. Hex suffers from the same problem as hunter's mark. Hellish rebuke is an ok use of a reaction.

Wizard
You are here for shield and portent.

I kind of lost steam at the end, but these are my general thoughts, I like any good use of reaction. I also like bonus actions you can pigeonhole in once in a while, but not necessarily ones that you have to use all the time. My initial impression is that barbarian, war cleric, paladin, and diviner wizard are the only serious candidates

coolAlias
2017-07-21, 02:02 PM
You can use Str to attack with finesse weapons, so Rogue isn't bad if you are not going for GWM and still want the bonus Barbarian rage damage.

If you also have an easy source of advantage (find familiar, Reckless Attack, etc), you can do a LOT of damage with sneak attack due to the Champion's improved critical. EDIT: Not so much for Champion X / Rogue 1-2, though, you're right.

Nitpick: Action Surge does not give you a bonus action, just an extra regular action, so it effectively has no interaction at all with your bonus action other than another chance to proc GWM bonus attack (but not if you already used it).

nickl_2000
2017-07-21, 02:07 PM
Rogue Dip - Sneak attack only requires the use of a finesse weapon. it doesn't require that you use dex to hit with it. There is no reason why you can't use your strength with a short sword or a rapier. A two level dip to get Expertise, 1d6 sneak attack, and cunning action is quite good and can help out a lot in combat. I know you said that you don't want to run away, but it gives you more versatility and more options for a bonus action. Plus it give you that bonus action dash that lets you smash something to death on your turn and then move 60 ft to get to the next person to smash. It also lets you start out combat running faster than your teammates to get into melee range quicker.

Specter
2017-07-21, 02:08 PM
With Champion, you want to add dice damage to your attacks so they are doubled on a hit. Best dips for that are War Cleric (Divine Favor) and Warlock (Hex).

coolAlias
2017-07-21, 02:14 PM
With Champion, you want to add dice damage to your attacks so they are doubled on a hit. Best dips for that are War Cleric (Divine Favor) and Warlock (Hex).
Indeed - I would also say Paladin, but with only 1-2 levels it would be severely limited smiting capability.

Ranger 2 would give you another fighting style as well as access to Hunter's Mark; one more level and you can choose Hunter for access to some other dice-adding abilities.

Warlock would be the more optimal choice, however, especially with all the other nice things it would get you (mainly eldritch blast and pact boons).

GlenSmash!
2017-07-21, 03:43 PM
Rage isn't the only way to mitigate the negatives of Reckless Attack. With the Mobile feat you could Reckless attack some fools, and then just get out of there so they can't hit you at all. However I do think if advantage is your Goal Revised Ranger gets it in the first round of combat for no drawback.

Rapier with strength works for sneak attack, plus expertise in Athletics will make your champion a great grappler. So Rogue is awesome.

Paladin is great for Smites. Oath of Vengeance comes with Hunter's Mark too, but that is a 3 level dip.