khachaturian
2017-07-21, 01:55 PM
I was initially thinking about taking champion up to level 6 and then going cleric, but looking at the fighter's level progression, even though the gains aren't particularly sexy, they are pretty good at making you better at your job, which is hitting things with a pointy stick. The way the chassis is set up, your action is accounted for by hitting things. Your bonus action can be used by action surge, second wind, and hopefully extra attacks from the cleave function of great weapon master with all of your sexy crits. Nothing really on reactions unless somebody is foolish enough to trigger an opportunity attack, but I wouldn't really bank on this happening to often.
So, the question is whether anyone have any ideas or experience with dips on champion. As a thought experiment, I went through the classes in a sort-of systematic way
Barbarian
- one level gets you two rages a day
- two levels gets you reckless attack. while this is really, good, utility is limited by the fact that this is probably only viable if you are using rage to mitigate damage
Bard
one level gets you bardic inspiration, which is a bonus action. while this competes the other ones listed above, i guess that with its duration and not requiring concentration, and you can just drop them here and there
spellcasting the cantrips and level one spells don't offer a whole lot of synergy. They would mostly be cast out-of-combat, since you want to use your action to hit things. I suppose that spells like feather fall, healing word, and long strider could have a place, but it doesn't really justify what you are giving up in fighter levels
jack of all trades is interesting, but doesn't really make you better at hitting things.
Cleric
spell casting comes out a little bit ahead of bard for a few reasons. 1. guidance is really good. 2. you can cast sanctuary and shield of faith as bonus actions
knowledge meh
life barely better than knowledge
light ok defensive buff, but you don't really get enough uses to make it worthwhile
nature this domain probably only works on single class melee clerics who dump strength to use shillelagh
tempest finally something that lets you use your reaction. too bad it's not that great. if you take two levels, you can maximize your wrath of the storm damage with channel divinity. or if you happen upon a javelin of lightning damage, you can maximize a potential crit
trickery advantage is pretty good, but using up an action to create your double isn't. makes me think about total recall
war bonus action extra attacks. bonus action domain spells. guided strike once per short rest.
Druid
spell casting just as bad as the bard list
Monk
Ki dodge and disengage seem underwhelming
Paladin
Fighting style would be blue if you were sword and board, but you are a greataxe wielding engine of crit destruction
Lay on hands you just need 1 HP to go from zero to back in the fight
Smite good synergy with your mastery of crits
spellcasting isn't for you. your slots power smites
Ranger
Natural explorer depends if you are using PHB or UA version. A one level dip in UA lets you go first and have advantage on all attacks in the first round. stacks nicely with the power attack function of GWM. ignoring difficult terrain and+2 damage to humanoids isn't bad either. This is probably only a one level dip since casting isn't that important to you. Hunter's mark suffers from the problem of competing for bonus action with your crits. Goodberry and long strider are ok, but not worth a level.
Rogue
Sneak attack should be great, giving dice that can be doubled on a crit, but it only works on finesse or ranged weapons. While you could build a rapier wielding dex fighter who is champion 3/rogue x, that's not really what this discussion is about. This is about champion x/dip 1-2
Expertise ok if you want to use one of your attacks to prone an enemy
Cunning action your job is to stand toe-to-toe, not run away
Sorcerer
Spellcasting shield and feather fall are both reactions
Tides of chaos not the best, not the worst. Portent is better if you are going down this path
Warlock
Everybody seems to love this as a two-level dip, but I don't see the appeal. Outside of Devil's Sight cheese low-level invocations don't help you out much. Dark One's Blessing is a nice source of temps. Hex suffers from the same problem as hunter's mark. Hellish rebuke is an ok use of a reaction.
Wizard
You are here for shield and portent.
I kind of lost steam at the end, but these are my general thoughts, I like any good use of reaction. I also like bonus actions you can pigeonhole in once in a while, but not necessarily ones that you have to use all the time. My initial impression is that barbarian, war cleric, paladin, and diviner wizard are the only serious candidates
So, the question is whether anyone have any ideas or experience with dips on champion. As a thought experiment, I went through the classes in a sort-of systematic way
Barbarian
- one level gets you two rages a day
- two levels gets you reckless attack. while this is really, good, utility is limited by the fact that this is probably only viable if you are using rage to mitigate damage
Bard
one level gets you bardic inspiration, which is a bonus action. while this competes the other ones listed above, i guess that with its duration and not requiring concentration, and you can just drop them here and there
spellcasting the cantrips and level one spells don't offer a whole lot of synergy. They would mostly be cast out-of-combat, since you want to use your action to hit things. I suppose that spells like feather fall, healing word, and long strider could have a place, but it doesn't really justify what you are giving up in fighter levels
jack of all trades is interesting, but doesn't really make you better at hitting things.
Cleric
spell casting comes out a little bit ahead of bard for a few reasons. 1. guidance is really good. 2. you can cast sanctuary and shield of faith as bonus actions
knowledge meh
life barely better than knowledge
light ok defensive buff, but you don't really get enough uses to make it worthwhile
nature this domain probably only works on single class melee clerics who dump strength to use shillelagh
tempest finally something that lets you use your reaction. too bad it's not that great. if you take two levels, you can maximize your wrath of the storm damage with channel divinity. or if you happen upon a javelin of lightning damage, you can maximize a potential crit
trickery advantage is pretty good, but using up an action to create your double isn't. makes me think about total recall
war bonus action extra attacks. bonus action domain spells. guided strike once per short rest.
Druid
spell casting just as bad as the bard list
Monk
Ki dodge and disengage seem underwhelming
Paladin
Fighting style would be blue if you were sword and board, but you are a greataxe wielding engine of crit destruction
Lay on hands you just need 1 HP to go from zero to back in the fight
Smite good synergy with your mastery of crits
spellcasting isn't for you. your slots power smites
Ranger
Natural explorer depends if you are using PHB or UA version. A one level dip in UA lets you go first and have advantage on all attacks in the first round. stacks nicely with the power attack function of GWM. ignoring difficult terrain and+2 damage to humanoids isn't bad either. This is probably only a one level dip since casting isn't that important to you. Hunter's mark suffers from the problem of competing for bonus action with your crits. Goodberry and long strider are ok, but not worth a level.
Rogue
Sneak attack should be great, giving dice that can be doubled on a crit, but it only works on finesse or ranged weapons. While you could build a rapier wielding dex fighter who is champion 3/rogue x, that's not really what this discussion is about. This is about champion x/dip 1-2
Expertise ok if you want to use one of your attacks to prone an enemy
Cunning action your job is to stand toe-to-toe, not run away
Sorcerer
Spellcasting shield and feather fall are both reactions
Tides of chaos not the best, not the worst. Portent is better if you are going down this path
Warlock
Everybody seems to love this as a two-level dip, but I don't see the appeal. Outside of Devil's Sight cheese low-level invocations don't help you out much. Dark One's Blessing is a nice source of temps. Hex suffers from the same problem as hunter's mark. Hellish rebuke is an ok use of a reaction.
Wizard
You are here for shield and portent.
I kind of lost steam at the end, but these are my general thoughts, I like any good use of reaction. I also like bonus actions you can pigeonhole in once in a while, but not necessarily ones that you have to use all the time. My initial impression is that barbarian, war cleric, paladin, and diviner wizard are the only serious candidates