Help building specific powers [M&M 3e]

[SilverLeaf167]

I've been planning/building characters for Mutants & Masterminds 3e in my time off, occasionally running into specific concepts I'm not sure how to represent. I know a lot can be accomplished by taking the closest fit and refluffing the details, or just DM-fiating the whole thing, but I figured I'd ask if there are better ways. Here are a couple, but if more pop to my mind later I might add them to the same thread, and obviously don't mind if someone else hijacks it for similar questions.

Attacks that harmlessly pass through walls to hit things behind them; incorporeal projectiles, for instance. I think Selective is the closest conceptually, but not necessarily in terms of mechanics; Precise Attack would allow it to ignore some cover but not literally shoot through walls. I basically want to ignore all cover completely.
Somewhat more specific: A small "drone" etc. that flies around autonomously, seeks out a designated target and explodes upon contact. Some form of Triggered is probably involved. Homing sounds like it'd work but doesn't really. The whole autonomy aspect kinda points towards Summon in my head, but that's kinda silly if all it does is fly around and blow up.

[JustIgnoreMe]

This should probably be in the "Other" forum, not the 3.5 D&D one.

I think the first one you want is "Indirect". There are 4 levels, but I can't remember which one you need.

For the second one, remember it's an effect-based system. The fluff is "a little explosive drone that follows you"; the crunch is "Damage, Range". Maybe a Perception Range attack.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Attacks that harmlessly pass through walls to hit things behind them; incorporeal projectiles, for instance. I think Selective is the closest conceptually, but not necessarily in terms of mechanics; Precise Attack would allow it to ignore some cover but not literally shoot through walls. I basically want to ignore all cover completely.
I think Perception range is probably what you want here, paired with a Penetrating sense-- if you can see the target, you can hit it. Indirect might work, because Indirect is clear as mud, but I think Perception will do what you want.


Somewhat more specific: A small "drone" etc. that flies around autonomously, seeks out a designated target and explodes upon contact. Some form of Triggered is probably involved. Homing sounds like it'd work but doesn't really. The whole autonomy aspect kinda points towards Summon in my head, but that's kinda silly if all it does is fly around and blow up.
What's wrong with Homing? That sounds exactly like a Homing attack to me-- you deploy it and it starts swooping at the target until it hits and explodes. Triggered and Homing would work too-- you throw it out, and it flies around in little circles and waits until you trigger it to swoop and explode.

[Necroticplague]

Attacks that harmlessly pass through walls to hit things behind them; incorporeal projectiles, for instance. I think Selective is the closest conceptually, but not necessarily in terms of mechanics; Precise Attack would allow it to ignore some cover but not literally shoot through walls. I basically want to ignore all cover completely.
Assuming you have some way to see through walls, Perception can do this. If you can see them, you can hit them.
Alternatively, you can use Indirect 2, so it originates from a point on the other side of cover (ignoring cover from you is an explicit ability of Indirect). The travel from you to point of origin would just be part of it's Descriptor.


Somewhat more specific: A small "drone" etc. that flies around autonomously, seeks out a designated target and explodes upon contact. Some form of Triggered is probably involved. Homing sounds like it'd work but doesn't really. The whole autonomy aspect kinda points towards Summon in my head, but that's kinda silly if all it does is fly around and blow up.

Why doesn't Homing work? Seems appropriate if it's just an attack option. Triggered to make it capable of acting on it's own, Homing to make it keep at it until it hits. Presumably, ranks in homing represent better battery life, so to speak.

EDIT:....WTF happened to the page's formatting?
Extra Edit: o.k, found problem. If you don't add new [List*] and [/List*] when you're splitting up a list like that, screws up the formatting, presumably because it thinks part of your post is a list option, and thus the rest must be a level lower. Fixed it in my post, appreciate if you did the same, Grod.

[Grod_The_Giant]

EDIT:....WTF happened to the page's formatting?
Extra Edit: o.k, found problem. If you don't add new [List*] and [/List*] when you're splitting up a list like that, screws up the formatting, presumably because it thinks part of your post is a list option, and thus the rest must be a level lower. Fixed it in my post, appreciate if you did the same, Grod.
Huh. I thought it was just me. Thanks for catching that!

[JustIgnoreMe]

@Grod: Indirect in M&M 3 is, as you say, clear as mud. Luckily, it's almost an exact concept lift from Champions/HERO 4th Ed, and the Big Blue Book explains the 4 types of Indirect much better! It's worth checking out the HERO version and porting it in.

[SilverLeaf167]

Thanks for the answers!


This should probably be in the "Other" forum, not the 3.5 D&D one.

I think the first one you want is "Indirect". There are 4 levels, but I can't remember which one you need.

Whoops, my bad. Saw "other d20 systems" in the description and looked no further.

As for Indirect, not a bad idea.


I think Perception range is probably what you want here, paired with a Penetrating sense-- if you can see the target, you can hit it. Indirect might work, because Indirect is clear as mud, but I think Perception will do what you want.[/list]

What's wrong with Homing? That sounds exactly like a Homing attack to me-- you deploy it and it starts swooping at the target until it hits and explodes. Triggered and Homing would work too-- you throw it out, and it flies around in little circles and waits until you trigger it to swoop and explode.

Perception range is a good idea, but there's a conceptual problem with the fact that it makes the attack impossible to dodge. Wonder if "Ignores Objects" would actually be a balanced +0 modifier, trading the ability to damage objects for the ability to pass through them? Presumably the first projectile from behind a wall could make for a surprise attack, but someone on guard for it should have at least a chance of dodging.

Homing gives additional attempts after a missed attack check, but does nothing to let it initiate attacks on its own. I might've been unclear, but I basically wanted something that I can (for example) send into a building with orders to kamikaze the first living being it sees, without having to see the target myself. On a closer look, Summon actually wouldn't be a terrible idea, since it'd also allow for more interesting interactions like tracking, stealth and being destroyed before it can attack, not to mention potential additions like a camera feed or other tools...


Assuming you have some way to see through walls, Perception can do this. If you can see them, you can hit them.
Alternatively, you can use Indirect 2, so it originates from a point on the other side of cover (ignoring cover from you is an explicit ability of Indirect). The travel from you to point of origin would just be part of it's Descriptor.

Why doesn't Homing work? Seems appropriate if it's just an attack option. Triggered to make it capable of acting on it's own, Homing to make it keep at it until it hits. Presumably, ranks in homing represent better battery life, so to speak.

See my other answers. I'm not sure if Triggered effects waiting for their trigger are allowed to move around.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Perception range is a good idea, but there's a conceptual problem with the fact that it makes the attack impossible to dodge. Wonder if "Ignores Objects" would actually be a balanced +0 modifier, trading the ability to damage objects for the ability to pass through them? Presumably the first projectile from behind a wall could make for a surprise attack, but someone on guard for it should have at least a chance of dodging.
Hmmm... I can see that. Or to use non-homebrew, Increased Range (Perception), Limited (Still Requires an attack roll) ought to do the trick for +0.


Homing gives additional attempts after a missed attack check, but does nothing to let it initiate attacks on its own. I might've been unclear, but I basically wanted something that I can (for example) send into a building with orders to kamikaze the first living being it sees, without having to see the target myself. On a closer look, Summon actually wouldn't be a terrible idea, since it'd also allow for more interesting interactions like tracking, stealth and being destroyed before it can attack, not to mention potential additions like a camera feed or other tools...
Yeah, if it's meant to be that independent, I think Summon is going to work better.


See my other answers. I'm not sure if Triggered effects waiting for their trigger are allowed to move around.
That's a good question. I'm inclined to say no, because otherwise you could spend ten minutes outside combat spawning attack drones, then hit the first guy you fight with a hundred Damage powers at once-- also known as "broken as ****."