Chromatic Orb vs Magic Missile

[FabulousFizban]

Which is better? Which should a spellcaster take for damage dealing?

To go even further, what is the best 1st level offensive spell?

[Cap'm Bubbles]

At 1st level, there's not a lot of difference in damage output for spells. Oddly enough, Sleep will remove more effective hitpoints from an encounter than the damaging ones simply by rendering foes unconscious, and is highly recommended.

By the numbers:

Chromatic Orb
3d8 damage, averages 14, max 24, single target.
Scales 1d8 per level up-cast.
Roll to hit, which at level 1 against most enemies will be 50-60% chance to hit, and a 5% chance to crit (average crit is 28 damage, same as level 3 fireball or lightning bolt).
It has a gold value listed in its material component, which means you actually have to pay for the item (though only once, it's not consumed) unless the DM hand-waves this away.
Choose the damage type, so you can adjust for resistance/vulnerability/immunity if you know your stuff about specific enemies.

Magic Missile
3x(1d4+1) damage, single or multiple targets. Average 3.5 damage per missile, or 11 if all focused on the same target.
Scales 1d4+1 damage per level up-cast.
Neither roll-to-hit nor saving throw, 100% chance to do its damage. The only thing that stops magic missile is the shield spell (also level 1).
It's Force damage, so nothing except a bear-totem barbarian resists its damage, and only one creature in the game is immune to Force damage (The Helmed Horror).

Magic missile has the lowest average damage of any damaging spell, but it comes with the virtual guarantee that all of its damage will be dealt. It also uses the least-resisted or immunized damage type in the game. An Evocation wizard can eventually add their intelligence modifier to the damage of a single missile.

Chromatic Orb has a marginally higher average damage, can only target one enemy, and has a significant chance of having no effect at all. It does, however, benefit from having advantage, can score critical hits, and can be tailored for specific enemies (fire damage to stop Troll's health regeneration, cold damage to freeze Water Elementals, etc). Also of note is that, while some DM's may be lenient on Magic Missile's metamagic options, all DM's will allow all metamagic options on Chromatic Orb (read: you can use Twin Spell). Draconic sorcerers can add their charisma modifier to damage of chromatic orb of their element at level 6.

If you think that you won't know enough about potential enemies, without going through the Monster Manual, to use Chromatic Orb to its full potential, then Magic Missile will probably work out better for you until you have access to better spells or are more confident in when and on what you would use Chromatic Orb.

As said earlier, Sleep is actually one of the best starting options.

[Tanarii]

Magic Missile is higher DPSp, and longer range. It also will do damage for sure.

Chromatic Orb does more damage on a hit, but lower DPSp, because there is a chance to miss. It also has shorter range. It also costs 50gp investment before you can cast it.

The material is mostly a consideration for level 1 & 2 casters, usually by lvl 3 you'll have gained 50gp from miscellaneous creatures or a hoard. Sometime also a consideration for lvl 3 EKs who are also trying to upgrade armor to Splint. It's important though. I can't count the number of players of new Sorcerer and Wizards I saw forget it when I was playing AL. Experienced 5e players in many cases.

[Cybren]

Magic missile has the lowest average damage of any damaging spell, but it comes with the virtual guarantee that all of its damage will be dealt. It also uses the least-resisted or immunized damage type in the game. An Evocation wizard can eventually add their intelligence modifier to the damage of a single missile.


Isn't the RAW that it adds to every missile due to the convoluted way they expect you to interpret damage rolls for spells?

[JumboWheat01]

Why not get both? Even a Sorcerer can spare the slots.

Still, I'm more partial to Magic Missile. Sure, it deals less damage, and you can't tune it to a weakness, but you there's pretty much only one thing that can stop it. And hey, if they stop it, you've burned their reaction for the Round. And it's just one of those iconic spells. It really says "Hey, I'm a Wizard/Sorcerer!"

[robbie374]

At first level, Magic Missile does an average damage of 10.5 whereas Chromatic Orb does 9.7. This is factoring in base damage and likelihood of success against level 1 enemies, but not considering damage type resistances, which are mostly irrelevant between these spells and at this level.

Beyond first level:
2nd Level: Magic Missile 14, Chromatic Orb 13.1
3rd Level: Magic Missile 17.5, Chromatic Orb 16.6
4th Level: Magic Missile 21, Chromatic Orb 18.7
etc.

At first level, and only at first level, Magic Missile is the most damaging ranged spell. (Inflict Wounds from the Cleric list is better, but range of touch.) Starting at second level, there are better spells, but Chromatic Orb isn't one of them.

Of course, the damage difference between the two is very small, so you might as well choose for fun and flavor.

[Tanarii]

At first level, Magic Missile does an average damage of 10.5 whereas Chromatic Orb does 9.7. This is factoring in base damage and likelihood of success against level 1 enemies, but not considering damage type resistances, which are mostly irrelevant between these spells and at this level.Of course, if it hits, Chromatic Orb doe more (13.5 average). It also has a much higher 'swing', allowing it to do up to 24 damage, compared to MM's Max of 15. There are times where the little bit of extra damage matters, and is worth the risk of a miss and chancing rolling high.

But yeah, averaged over the long run, Magic Missile definitely does more Damage Per Spell.

[Gignere]

Also MM can be used as a pseudo AoE by splitting the missiles. This happened a few times when I was playing wizard where the other PCs would severely wound 2 or 3 creatures because they didn't or couldn't focus fire and I would split a MM to finish them off, Chromatic orb can't do that.

This is crucial because in D&D until an enemy is unconscious they are just as effective at 1 hps or full hps.

[JumboWheat01]

I actually forgot about the fact you can aim the missiles to different targets. Been playing too many computer games over tabletop ones. That is a very good point. It makes it into a safe multi-target spell as well, there are very few party friendly spells that damage multiple targets.

[ImproperJustice]

Does it affect the numbers much if you allow for a Sorceror to Twin Spell Chromatic Orb?

I know it's a favorite go to for my Phoenix Sorceror, as I can nail two targets pretty good for the low, low cost of 1 Sorcery point.

[Tanarii]

Does it affect the numbers much if you allow for a Sorceror to Twin Spell Chromatic Orb?
Well, it doubles the average damage. (yeah, I'm a smartass.)

Seriously though, double damage, but different distribution, because there's a chance one will hit and the other miss, but the chance of both missing becomes very small. For example, with a 60% hit chance: you have a 16% chance of doing 0 damage, a 48% chance of 3d8, and 36% chance of doing 6d8.
(I'm AFB so I can't recall if you have to choose different targets for twin. If that's the case then what I said doesn't apply to a single target, but rather the combination of both.)

Dragon sorcerer especially it's a very good spell with Twin Spell and choosing their favored element.

[FreddyNoNose]

Why not get both? OMfG. The whole point is to choose. Any five year old can simply say why not both. That is uninteresting and doesn't help the OP

[djreynolds]

The fact that you can change damage with chromatic orb is a big deal.

Most casters at 1st level have a 16 in that stat. +3 +2= +5 to hit and the bless spell does affect all attacks like this and you could possibly score a critical hit.

Magic Missile is sweet, but a shield spell totally negates this. I'm sure a wizard knows who the other wizard across the way is, so probably not an issue.

[Temperjoke]

I'd have to give style points to the Chromatic Orb, it's flexible enough to fit with any theme your spellcaster might have going on, plus the element of risk always spices combat up a little bit. Magic Missile is relatively safe and boring.

[HolyDraconus]

To throw in my 2 copper, I personally prefer the Orb when available at that level, if forced to choose. If I'm a Sorc, I would quit playing and roll a wizard cause every Sorc I've seen in AL has died between the levels of 1 and 3, but as a wizard, the Orb just lends itself more to the whole "I know things and can pick stuff for the right situations" vibe most wizards give off. Though Sleep is King til level 3 and still usable up til 7. MM gets outdamaged by higher spells fairly quickly, and I honestly rather use low level slots for either utility like Mage Armor or Shield, or random crap that pops up that I just so happened to know and prepared the spell for. At those low of levels, a non downed enemy still has to get by a team mate to get to me, and kill stealing isn't my deal. I leave that to the dumb ass tabaxi monks/rogues/rangers that like running off alone and wondering why the party watched them die.

[BW022]

I'll add three other benefit of Magic Missile which haven't been mentioned...

1. Melee. Chromatic Orb is difficult to use if in melee. If some creature is next to you, your ranged attack roles are at disadvantage. MM at least gives you an attack option if trapped in melee. At low levels, it might be enough to drop the enemy and even at high levels it can still be more useful to use rather than using an action or spell to get out of melee or drawing the opportunity attack to move away.

2. Disrupting other spell casters. It is a useful spell in readying an action against an enemy caster -- low-level so you don't waste powerful slots, doesn't miss, and does fairly assured damage. If someone is about to fireball the party... must better to always hit than have a chance of hitting.

3. No missing. Specifically, spells such as mirror image, displacement, blur, etc. dim light, lots of cover, etc. make Chromatic orb attacks really iffy or often just wasted.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Isn't the RAW that it adds to every missile due to the convoluted way they expect you to interpret damage rolls for spells?
If by convoluted you mean, roll a single d4 and that's the damage for every missile... then yes.

[strangebloke]

If by convoluted you mean, roll a single d4 and that's the damage for every missile... then yes.

He's taking about the abilities that read: +int or +Cha to damage. The wording is vague.

Thus, pheonix sorcerer's ability and evocation wizard's ability add to every projectile, whereas the dragon sorcerer's ability gets added only once.

Regarding what's already been said: chromatic orb offers elemental flexibility but is inconsistent. It's better for dragon sorcerer's, since they get the +Cha and can twin it and need the flexibility anyway. Magic missile is just consistent, vanilla, dps magic.

[Citan]

Which is better? Which should a spellcaster take for damage dealing?

To go even further, what is the best 1st level offensive spell?
For a Wizard, Magic Missile should always be known since you can change prepared spells anyways. The fact that it auto-hits can make it retain usefulness in some niche cases for a caster that has a lot more fuel than others (and ends with free cast of a 1st level spell).

For any other, Magic Missile is by far your best use of a slot for damage until you are character level 3-4: when everyone is struggling hitting even medium AC enemies, having the ability to split or focus reliable damage is top and there are many creatures you face that you can half-kill or outright kill at level 1-2 (CR 1/4 creatures).
After that, Chromatic Orb is the better choice, mainly because it gives you at least one direct damage spell that stays useful whatever resistances an enemy may have.

[Chugger]

MM doesn't miss. Orb lets you spit out x damage if you happen to bump into a rare that is vulnerable to x damage (doubling it) - and orb when it hits tends to do more.

I often see MM used in this case - your party has hurt a monster badly. It's on the ropes. But with firebolt or w/e you could miss it. It doesn't have shield - it's either out of slots or not a caster - and you need to finish it off - because it's buddy is still healthy and hurting the party. The buddy plus the wounded one both hitting in a round would be very bad - time to just put it down. MM is (almost) guaranteed damage - not a lot - but often enough to put down a monster - and usually more than a cantrip that hits Usually.

When people talk about average damage of spells, you have to remember to mitigate those comparisons for spell misses. MM doesn't miss. If something's 100% spell resistant or has Shield and can cast it as a reaction, MM will fail. I can't think of other instances where it will (probably are some). Also, I think MM hits if the monster is in your face (w/in 5 feet) and otherwise would have imposed a disad on your to hit roll - the MM hits anyway - orb has, I'm pretty sure, a disad in this case.

If you must choose between them, do you want virtual certainty of 10 to 11 pts damage (can be more or less, but that's typical). No miss no save? Or do you want the possibility of sometimes doing quite a bit more and having the flexibility of damage types to choose from?

[NinaWu]

Magic missile as you don't end up wasting any damage only to discover resistance and then risk the same again trying something different

[Kalashak]

He's taking about the abilities that read: +int or +Cha to damage. The wording is vague.

Thus, pheonix sorcerer's ability and evocation wizard's ability add to every projectile, whereas the dragon sorcerer's ability gets added only once.

Regarding what's already been said: chromatic orb offers elemental flexibility but is inconsistent. It's better for dragon sorcerer's, since they get the +Cha and can twin it and need the flexibility anyway. Magic missile is just consistent, vanilla, dps magic.

Empowered Evocation only adds to one damage roll, so the only spell getting extra damage to all projectiles is Magic Missile
I don't usually pick either of these usually, but if I had to I'd take Magic Missile because it's iconic and casting MM at the darkness is a guilty pleasure joke

[Citan]

Empowered Evocation only adds to one damage roll, so the only spell getting extra damage to all projectiles is Magic Missile
I don't usually pick either of these usually, but if I had to I'd take Magic Missile because it's iconic and casting MM at the darkness is a guilty pleasure joke
"a creature of your choice that you can see within range". So I suppose you are talking about a Wizard having Darkvision one way or another, facing natural darkness (lack of light)... :smallbiggrin:
(Although I do love that spell on a Sorcerer/Warlock multiclass because now you can do the same in magical darkness too).

[Tanarii]

To throw in my 2 copper, I personally prefer the Orb when available at that level, if forced to choose. Most players choose it at 2nd or 3rd level, not first. Because of the component cost.

[Arkhios]

Most players choose it at 2nd or 3rd level, not first. Because of the component cost.

Thankfully though, the diamond isn't consumed on each cast :o

[Sariel Vailo]

I killed a troll with mm twinned spell and quickend spell one mm was a 2nd leve and one was a first level

[JNAProductions]

I killed a troll with mm twinned spell and quickend spell one mm was a 2nd leve and one was a first level

You done dern cheated there. You cannot cast a Bonus Action spell and a non-cantrip spell in the same turn.

[Sariel Vailo]

You done dern cheated there. You cannot cast a Bonus Action spell and a non-cantrip spell in the same turn.
Yeah lazy dm 5 tanks one sorcerer he had given up by that point.al where hope djes every so often 4 out of five tables zero hope.

[SharkForce]

you also can't twin magic missile. only spells that are unable to target multiple creatures work, apparently.


He's taking about the abilities that read: +int or +Cha to damage. The wording is vague.

Thus, pheonix sorcerer's ability and evocation wizard's ability add to every projectile, whereas the dragon sorcerer's ability gets added only once.

Regarding what's already been said: chromatic orb offers elemental flexibility but is inconsistent. It's better for dragon sorcerer's, since they get the +Cha and can twin it and need the flexibility anyway. Magic missile is just consistent, vanilla, dps magic.

yeah, turns out that it has nothing to do with anything working on multiple projectiles, and everything to do with exactly what was said: apparently, when reading magic missile, you're supposed to read that as "roll 1d4+1 once, and that is the damage of each missile". and since evocation wizards get to add their damage to that one roll, each missile gets int bonus to damage.

personally, to me that sounds ridiculous. i would never have read the spell that way in a thousand years. but that's the official statement, and it's only for magic missile because no other spells (like scorching ray, for example) work the same way.

[Cybren]

Yeah I was gobsmacked when someone said that the RAW is you roll damage once and that's how much each missile does. I honestly didn't believe it and somewhat still don't.

[Tanarii]

Yeah I was gobsmacked when someone said that the RAW is you roll damage once and that's how much each missile does. I honestly didn't believe it and somewhat still don't.
I was a little shocked too when I first read that interpretation online. It's certainly isn't the straightforward or common sense spreading of the wording of the Magic Missle spell.

[Findulidas]

I was a little shocked too when I first read that interpretation online. It's certainly isn't the straightforward or common sense spreading of the wording of the Magic Missle spell.

Its a time saver thats why they want to interpret it that way I think.

Also in some interpretations you have to do one concentration check for each missile, if so you can just break concentration checks with it. I mean each missile is one source of damage. I dont subscribe to that though.

[Zalabim]

It isn't the common sense reading of the "deals damage to multiple creatures simultaneously rule" either, since all the missiles can be targeted at one creature. I explain it as wanting MM to be good for Evokers and working backwards from there.

[Aymon]

I'll add three other benefit of Magic Missile which haven't been mentioned...

1. Melee. Chromatic Orb is difficult to use if in melee. If some creature is next to you, your ranged attack roles are at disadvantage. MM at least gives you an attack option if trapped in melee. At low levels, it might be enough to drop the enemy and even at high levels it can still be more useful to use rather than using an action or spell to get out of melee or drawing the opportunity attack to move away.

2. Disrupting other spell casters. It is a useful spell in readying an action against an enemy caster -- low-level so you don't waste powerful slots, doesn't miss, and does fairly assured damage. If someone is about to fireball the party... must better to always hit than have a chance of hitting.

3. No missing. Specifically, spells such as mirror image, displacement, blur, etc. dim light, lots of cover, etc. make Chromatic orb attacks really iffy or often just wasted.

4 you can divert a single missile to 'wake up' a party member from any spell that is cancelled or allows a saving throw on any damage. Surprisingly often useful, and essentially gives you two actions in that round. D4+1 damage is usually a small price to pay for the next action.

[Citan]

4 you can divert a single missile to 'wake up' a party member from any spell that is cancelled or allows a saving throw on any damage. Surprisingly often useful, and essentially gives you two actions in that round. D4+1 damage is usually a small price to pay for the next action.
Very smart trick, thanks for sharing. ;)

[Jerrykhor]

My most recent use of Chromatic Orb was quite decent. I mean, I chose thunder damage against a Rock Golem, who was vulnerable to it, upcasted it with a 3rd level slot, and rolled max damage on 4 of the 5d8. Did a total of 66 damage, DM said i wiped a little more than 50% of the golem's hp, and it was supposed to be a boss fight for us.

So yeah, Chromatic Orb FTW.

[Cybren]

My most recent use of Chromatic Orb was quite decent. I mean, I chose thunder damage against a Rock Golem, who was vulnerable to it, upcasted it with a 3rd level slot, and rolled max damage on 4 of the 5d8. Did a total of 66 damage, DM said i wiped a little more than 50% of the golem's hp, and it was supposed to be a boss fight for us.

So yeah, Chromatic Orb FTW.

To be honest I find that more a condemnation of "boss fights" in d&d and less the utility of the spell