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skywalker
2007-08-08, 01:42 AM
I'm very interested in playing a dwarf in the next game I play in, and realized that I don't see a lot of talk on these boards about dwarves.

So how does everyone feel about them? Are they fun, any specific sub-races that are more fun than others?

Fun character concept ideas?

I'm just trying to spark some discussion about dwarves.

dr.cello
2007-08-08, 02:05 AM
My roommates love dwarves. It may be more of a roleplay thing than anything, but we at one point had a dwarven giant-hunter campaign (in which I was a pixie pretending to be the ancestral spirits of a dwarf barbarian--good times, good times) which was rather entertaining.

Play a dwarf Swashbuckler (and bonus points if you name him Casanunda), or swash/rogue or something. I think that would be inordinately fun.

Otto-Sieve
2007-08-08, 02:46 AM
Dwarves are probably my favorite race, besides human of course.

Zincorium
2007-08-08, 03:25 AM
I love playing dwarves, even if I do have to stop using a scottish accent after a few minutes and just talk normally. The only characters I've played that I've got stories worth telling were all halflings or dwarves (I've got a thing for being knee-level I suppose).

Generally, dwarves get little soapbox time because they simply aren't controversial. They're solid, if not as easy to abuse as humans, and they have excellent racial PrCs. On the other hand, they aren't as broken as many optional races, like grey elves (oh, sure, give an intelligence bonus to an LA 0 race with wizard as it's favored class...).

Swooper
2007-08-08, 04:25 AM
Play a dwarf Swashbuckler (and bonus points if you name him Casanunda), or swash/rogue or something. I think that would be inordinately fun.
While TP references sound fun on paper, I find them to potentially ruin (or, at least, dent) the atmosphere of a serious game. Check with your DM before using this one...

...That said, this guy was hilarious. Claiming to be the world's second best lover, on the basis that the second best would try harder? Priceless.


Dwarves can be loads of fun. Don't go with the steriotype though, do a different dwarf. He'll be more memorable.

Kioran
2007-08-08, 04:31 AM
I always viewed dwarves as the manliest neuters around, and think they´re bags of cliché, so not to terribly interesting to play. If you, however, don´t want to spend tons of time coming up with a character or lift a stereotype from somewhere, go ahead.
Mechanically, they´re sound, almost, but not quite overpowered. The problem is that dwarves are auto-minmaxxed for tank builds. In a classical dungeon crawl in which you participate as Cleric or Tank, they´ve already dumped the unneccesesary stuff(Charisma, the move speed you were going to lose anyway) and given you neat bonuses(Constitution, Darkvision, weapon proficencies)......

Evil DM Mark3
2007-08-08, 04:38 AM
Dwarves are great but the steriotype can get annoying. Thus in my games the following applies.

Dwarf socitey is stable and inwardly focused. Those who leave are invariably misfits.

This cuts down on the knee high scotsman a bit.

They work well in almost any class and their favoured class actualy (and this is rare) helps the flavour. Take 2 fighter levels to add that solid, chunky feel to your main class.

Asside from them and humans, I only ever play hobgoblins.

In my world Dwarves have domesticated Ankegs and are clear rivals with elves for the master of magic title, although they merge magic with weaponry (spellsword, eldrich knight etc) rather than with other magic as elves do (mystic therge, geomancer etc).

Wraithy
2007-08-08, 04:51 AM
ah the dwarves, almost dwarf like in their supreme dwarfyness. dwarves are generally a good play. one of the cornerstones of D&D. if you have an adventure without a dwarf, the liklihood is that your DM doesn't own a monster manual, or a players handbook for that matter.
you might enjoy the alcoholic spin, an ancient tradition as it were. are you a happy drunk? or an abusive one?
it is important never to fall into the trap (I'm not sure if there is a name for it) of being a stick up the arse prude. I accidentally did this once, the character turned out to be an angsty little b*tch (I must avenge my father to prove myself waaa waaa waaa). remember that if your dwarf really was like that, he probably wouldn't ever leave the halls.
as for subraces: they're a bit unnecisarry, subraces tend to be the coice of min-maxy types (eg: gold dwarf paladin etc.) stick to good old hill dwarves.
last of all just think of a concept which you think you and the rest of your party would enjoy, otherwise you might as well be at work.

Overlard
2007-08-08, 05:02 AM
They're fun to roleplay, even if they do get pigeonholed a bit.

Mechanically, they're more than sound. They've got a laundry list of advantages, special abilities and bonuses that are of use to just about everyone but arcanists. And the price they pay for all of those? 20ft movement, and -2 Cha. They're a solid choice for just about every class that might conceivably get up close & personal. They put all the other races in the PHB to shame, with the exception of the ever-versatile human.

Saph
2007-08-08, 05:11 AM
From DM of the Rings (http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=1189):

"Everyone knows that all dwarves are roleplayed as one of the D&D Seven Dwarves: Grumpy, Greedy, Ugly, Hairy, Choppy, Lawful, & Drunk."

- Saph

PlatinumJester
2007-08-08, 06:10 AM
Dwarves are funny. The video below shows why Dwarves are kick arse.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNrLMob39qI

Morty
2007-08-08, 06:23 AM
Dwarves aren't better or worse than all other PHB races. They're seriously cliched, but all core races are, so it won't be a problem. Just make sure your roleplaying consisnt more than the "drunken, bearded short guy with axe in hand and honor in heart who picks on elves" stereotype. Roleplay a person, not a dwarf, if you know what I mean.

ChrisMcDee
2007-08-08, 06:25 AM
If it weren't for the pesky Cha penalty I'd play a Dwarf Bard a lot more often. I think the race really fits an inspiring storyteller type character that guides the party around with his knowledge.

Is there a subrace of Dwarves out there who don't get the Cha penalty?

Zincorium
2007-08-08, 06:31 AM
If it weren't for the pesky Cha penalty I'd play a Dwarf Bard a lot more often. I think the race really fits an inspiring storyteller type character that guides the party around with his knowledge.

Is there a subrace of Dwarves out there who don't get the Cha penalty?

Gold dwarf from the forgotten realms setting comes to mind, but a dex penalty hurts a bard too.

Frankly, I think dwarves don't really deserve either, given their reputation as excellent craftsmen and storytellers, but there has to be some balancing factor, and dwarves aren't weak, foolish, or unhealthy, either, so there's a certain arbitrary penalty to charisma to balance the standard dwarven race out (theoretically. Constitutiona =! charisma).

Evil DM Mark3
2007-08-08, 07:00 AM
I allways understood the Cha pen as representing less of a focus on the needs of the self. Dwarves live in enclosed spaces, have limited resorces, no personal space. They live for the betterment of the community, they spend their lives working for a general whole rather than for a specific self. Hence Dwarves with higher Cha might have a harder time fitting in.

Still it does kinda ruin the amazing idea of a dwarf bard. One hombrew sub-race I made trades the Cha pen for a Wis pen. That sub-race is known for it's magical abtitude but also for a lack of foresight.

Roderick_BR
2007-08-08, 07:40 AM
Dwarves are my favorite race, close to humans. I'm trying to convince my DM to let me play a Warblade dwarf.
As everyone said: Good stats for front liners, with little disadvantages, making them just not so great for spontaneous arcane casters and sneaky types.
For RP purposes, I suggest you to read Races of Stone. Lot's of RPing goodness, like personality and society mindsets. You'll be surprised on how dwarves can get different from the typical stereotypes.

If you want the cheesyness goodness, go with a Durkon like cleric, and pump up on boost spells.

Or go with something completely new: My friend once RPed 2 dwarves. A barbarian and a cleric. Although both were chaotic, the cleric had more sense than the barbarian, and he used their discussions (in character!) to keep his barbarian from killing himself.

Ranis
2007-08-08, 07:51 AM
All I have to say about dwarves is that female dwarves are manlier studs than the highest-level male paladins of any other race could ever be.

Swooper
2007-08-08, 08:01 AM
I allways understood the Cha pen as representing less of a focus on the needs of the self. Dwarves live in enclosed spaces, have limited resorces, no personal space. They live for the betterment of the community, they spend their lives working for a general whole rather than for a specific self. Hence Dwarves with higher Cha might have a harder time fitting in.

Still it does kinda ruin the amazing idea of a dwarf bard. One hombrew sub-race I made trades the Cha pen for a Wis pen. That sub-race is known for it's magical abtitude but also for a lack of foresight.
Thank you. Dwarves in the campaign setting I'm working on are now officially communists. :smallbiggrin:

All I have to say about dwarves is that female dwarves are manlier studs than the highest-level male paladins of any other race could ever be.That has nothing to do with dwarves, even elven baby girls are manlier than bubble.... Oh, sorry, wrong game. :smallamused:

Darrin
2007-08-08, 08:07 AM
Still it does kinda ruin the amazing idea of a dwarf bard. One hombrew sub-race I made trades the Cha pen for a Wis pen. That sub-race is known for it's magical abtitude but also for a lack of foresight.

The Magic-Blooded racial template (LA +0, Dragon #306) does exactly this. You get low-light instead of darkvision, though.

JEntropy
2007-08-08, 08:50 AM
One of the things I like about dwarves is that they're good for anything that isn't too cha-focused. It's not something I immediately considered, because their ability bonuses are in the "wrong" place, but I would say that +CON helps low HD classes more than high ones! Less squishiness = win.

One thing I would say, though, is that if you're not going to be underground a lot, you'll miss out on fully utilizing some of your racial bonuses. If the campaign will be mostly above-ground and/or lacks an emphasis on masonry/architecture, I would look at one of the environmental racial variants in the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/environmentalRacialVariants.htm).

Jungle Dwarves make good druid/ranger/scout types, and are probably my favorite of the dwarf variants.

Otherwise, check Races of Stone. Excellent book, and will give you too many ideas to work with :smallwink:

Leon
2007-08-08, 08:58 AM
If it weren't for the pesky Cha penalty I'd play a Dwarf Bard a lot more often

Cha Penalty be Dammed, just play a bard and accept that you wont get a 18 at the start




Otherwise, check Races of Stone. Excellent book, and will give you too many ideas to work with :smallwink:

I quite like Dwarves, now have the book but took so long to get over my hate of gnomes to acpet that the coolness of Dwarves and Whisper Gnomes could overrule the lil buggers presence in the tome


Not D&D but, im currently playing a Dwarf Miner in WHFRP and having a whale of a time - Going last and using a Great weapon = Kill Stealing :smallbiggrin:, planing to move into Engineer soon for access to the Good Stuff (Dwarfcraft Firearms - the Great Weapon of the Ranged world)

Argent
2007-08-08, 09:01 AM
Dwarves are a load of fun to play. As several posters mentioned, they're definitely set up for being melee smasher-types -- but if you can resist the urge to be the archetypical axe-or-hammer dwarven fighter, a dwarf can be a lot of fun.

I'm currently playing a dwarven rogue in our EGC (Evil Guy Campaign). He's a Ftr2/Rog8 and I play him much as the 'trapmaster' type - tons of skill points in Search, Disable Device, Open Locks and Craft (trapmaking). He's a lot more academic than the dwarven archetype, though; he wears the typical chain shirt, shield and carries a warhammer, but then he whips out the wire-rimmed spectacles and his delicate little trap-defusing tools when it's time to get all disarming. In his off times, he's generally monkeying around with creating the next Better Mousetrap. Good times.

Storm Bringer
2007-08-08, 09:27 AM
I love dwaves. By far my favourite race. What i find seems to set them apart from other races is what i can only discribe a 'sense of race'.

In most settings, the dwaven race is very cohesive, and thier is often only one single nation where the other races tend to be spilt into several. They seem to be willing to place the needs of the group above thier own, and so willing to accept meanial tasks or certian death in order to futher the aims of thier group. They seem indeed to the the perfect race to attempt communism with.:smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin:

however, if you want some fresh RP angles, heres a few ideas:

An evil dwarf/dwarven nation. In all the settings i know, Only Warhammer fanasty actaully has a evil dwarf section to match the evil elf section, and one that actaully does things. seriously, when was the last time you saw a major evil dwarf?

Dwarven wizard: I see the dwaven magic tradition as being about protection, about bringing the caster and his allies though the fight alive rather than about damaging the foe. It make them feel different form brute human mages or tricksy gnomes or elves.

Dwarven barbarain: Okay, i'll admit, it's cos i like WFB's slayers, but still, the sight of one of the most lawful races in the game turning into a raging mainac is kinda appealing.

the dwaven bard, noted above. a very celtic/nordic feel, with great odes as his bardidic music. as a related note, maybe branching into the truenamer class, with the bard singing songs of such power they alter the world by merely being spoken?

If you feel like taking them right back to thier nordic roots, make them sailors of great skill, having charted the great seas long before humans had got the hang of making iorn.



just a few ideas.

Leon
2007-08-08, 09:35 AM
All I have to say about dwarves is that female dwarves are manlier studs than the highest-level male paladins of any other race could ever be.

http://www.blizzard.com/wow/screenshot.aspx?ImageIndex=143&Set=64

Swooper
2007-08-08, 09:54 AM
An evil dwarf/dwarven nation. In all the settings i know, Only Warhammer fanasty actaully has a evil dwarf section to match the evil elf section, and one that actaully does things. seriously, when was the last time you saw a major evil dwarf?
Wait, you don't know duergar* or derro? Sure, few settings emphasise them much, but they're usually there. The aforementioned setting I'm working on does put some emphasis on the though, I call them grey dwarves. They're the descendants of a clan of dwarves who dug into a large cave network, had the tunnels collapse above them in an earthquake and were thought dead. Hundreds of years later, mysterious grey skinned dwarves with strange, unknown powers (psionics) attack a dwarven city from below...



*Linguistic note: 'Dvergar' in Icelandic means 'dwarves'. Almost the same as 'duergar'...

Storm Bringer
2007-08-08, 10:07 AM
yes, they're thier, but I've never seen them appear as much more than deep background characters. to repeat my question, when was the last time a Derro?duergar was a major character in the plot, or even a secondry one? Most works i've seen mention them in passing, espically compared to drow.

Swooper
2007-08-08, 10:20 AM
yes, they're thier, but I've never seen them appear as much more than deep background characters. to repeat my question, when was the last time a Derro?duergar was a major character in the plot, or even a secondry one? Most works i've seen mention them in passing, espically compared to drow.
Valid. If it makes you happy, I could try to incorporate them more into my own setting. :smallwink:

Leon
2007-08-08, 10:51 AM
duergar dont have a infamous ranger with dual weapons parading about, advertising the race

Telonius
2007-08-08, 11:02 AM
That sounds like a challenge. Dwizzt D'wergar, here we come!

Peregrine
2007-08-08, 11:45 AM
Play a dwarf Swashbuckler (and bonus points if you name him Casanunda), or swash/rogue or something. I think that would be inordinately fun.


While TP references sound fun on paper, I find them to potentially ruin (or, at least, dent) the atmosphere of a serious game. Check with your DM before using this one...

...That said, this guy was hilarious. Claiming to be the world's second best lover, on the basis that the second best would try harder? Priceless.

Wait, that was based on something? Here I just thought my DM was being an idiot that week...

No, really. We ran into a highwayman (highwaydwarf?) named Casanunda. I think he lasted an astonishing three rounds. Maybe two. (And one of us was off stealing his horse.)

Dervag
2007-08-08, 12:17 PM
In most settings, the dwaven race is very cohesive, and thier is often only one single nation where the other races tend to be spilt into several. They seem to be willing to place the needs of the group above thier own, and so willing to accept meanial tasks or certian death in order to futher the aims of thier group. They seem indeed to the the perfect race to attempt communism with.:smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin:Welcome to the United Soviet Socialist Republic of Dwarfistansky! From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs, which means that you are hereby appointed Commissar in charge of Reaching Things on Tall Shelves!


If you feel like taking them right back to thier nordic roots, make them sailors of great skill, having charted the great seas long before humans had got the hang of making iorn.Wow. What's iorn?

Have we invented that even yet? Clearly, these dwarves are masters of high technology:smallbiggrin:

EndgamerAzari
2007-08-08, 12:25 PM
That sounds like a challenge. Dwizzt D'wergar, here we come!

Oh, man. Brilliant. I officially LOL'd.

Jasdoif
2007-08-08, 12:40 PM
That sounds like a challenge. Dwizzt D'wergar, here we come!Don't forget the Dwarven "tumble in any armor" trick!

Enzario
2007-08-08, 12:43 PM
Funny, I never have thought of Dwarves as particularely Irish or Scottish in any way. If any country at all, they would be Austrian or Russian. Dwarves don't parade around in kilts. They work hard in their potato fields and make VODKA.

Capt'n Ironbrow
2007-08-08, 01:22 PM
Vodka? naaaah BEEEER! :D (and in my groups wfrp-world also the best Whiskey, which also powers their gyrocopters, gatlinguns and chainsaws... yeah the dwarves are going steampunk there...)

I always see dwarves as a Nordic culture, albeit, they are not sailors like the vikings. why should they? Within the mountains lies their bounty (Gold and mushrooms)!

Oh, and if you want to go unconventional: make them more feral like in chronopia (6 tribes based on a certain animal, Ram, Jackal, Boar, Wolf, Dragon and Vulture each with matching Blood-Totems, fallen tribal gods now used as warbeasts). Totem Keeper would make a great class/dwarf druid substitute (or just an alternative naming of druid for a dwarf).

Matthew
2007-08-08, 08:54 PM
Wait, that was based on something? Here I just thought my DM was being an idiot that week...

No, really. We ran into a highwayman (highwaydwarf?) named Casanunda. I think he lasted an astonishing three rounds. Maybe two. (And one of us was off stealing his horse.)
Yeah, it's based off Terry Pratchett, if I recall correctly.

Belteshazzar
2007-08-08, 09:15 PM
Still it does kinda ruin the amazing idea of a dwarf bard. One hombrew sub-race I made trades the Cha pen for a Wis pen. That sub-race is known for it's magical abtitude but also for a lack of foresight.

Yeah their called gnomes in my world. *grin*

Leon
2007-08-08, 09:45 PM
Racial Weapon: Bread (Dwarfcraft)

Hectonkhyres
2007-08-08, 10:32 PM
One of my favorite groups to show up in the games I have been to is a dwarven tribe that was lured to a hellish, boondock world by Loki in a grand exodus. It was essentially dwarven hell. Hardly any metal, rock too crumbly to be safely tunneled through, soil not quite right for grain. But Loki's trickery was so good that they loved him for it.

Many generations later, the survivors had split into dozens of tribes. They built big fortresses out of quarried stone, piling it so thick they kindof simulated their lost underground domain. They tended towards berserkers and druids with the odd cleric. They tended to be mercurial, warlike raiders who couldn't hold a grudge past five minutes and were barren of all shame.

Eventually Loki came back and, amused that the people whom he had led astray worshipping him and giving thanks, released the dimensional embargo he had dropped on the world. My character, a berserker dwarf from one of the tribes, fell through a portal that Loki had trapped. Get too close and to floor turns into a ramp, sliding the poor bastard through the portal at high speed. He landed in the Hive Ward in Sigil.

Best day of his life. *sob*

Dervag
2007-08-08, 11:54 PM
Funny, I never have thought of Dwarves as particularely Irish or Scottish in any way. If any country at all, they would be Austrian or Russian. Dwarves don't parade around in kilts. They work hard in their potato fields and make VODKA. And they're the only people in the world who dig up their potatoes from underneath. Of course, the Irish do potatoes too...

I always figured that the dwarves' really unique alcoholic beverage was a petroleum distillate. Of course, some of the impurities stay in, so the hangover is killer:

"I've drunk the mead of the Normanni. I've drunk the koumis of the Tarshkento horse archers, which is made from fermented mares' milk. I've even drunk the potent torgo drink of the T'Chadi junglemen, which they swear is distilled from panther sweat.

"But of all the things I ever drank, the one I regretted most was that tankard of dwarven rock liquor."