Simulacrum and Warlock Good?

[Talionis]

If a Wizard makes a Similacrum of a Warlock I think the Similacrum regains Mystic Arcanum since they don't run on spell slots. So you can argue if you aren't running through the one time Similacrum spell slots a Warlock makes the best caster to make a Similacrum. Plus you have Eldritch Blast is the best attack cantrip in the game and you get invocations too. If you are Tomelock you have access to all rituals as well

[Vaz]

Warlocks use Spell Slots. After they have gone, you have an Archer.

[TheTeaMustFlow]

Warlocks use Spell Slots. After they have gone, you have an Archer.

Mystic Arcanum explicitly does not run on spell slots, actually.


At 11th level, your patron bestows upon you a magical secret called an arcanum. Choose one 6th- level spell from the warlock spell list as this arcanum. You can cast your arcanum spell once without expending a spell slot. You must finish a long rest before you can do so again. At higher levels, you gain more warlock spells of your choice that can be cast in this way: one 7th- level spell at 13th level, one 8th-level spell at 15th level, and one 9th-level spell at 17th level. You regain all uses of your Mystic Arcanum when you finish a long rest.

[Vaz]

Seemed to have blanked out Mystic Arcanum when reading first. My bad.

[Talionis]

In a similar vein. I feel less confident but RAW I think Sorcerer might be able to use Flexible casting to create new spell slots. Flexible casting doesn't technically recover spell slots. And spell points would recover every long rest.

[MaxWilson]

If a Wizard makes a Similacrum of a Warlock I think the Similacrum regains Mystic Arcanum since they don't run on spell slots. So you can argue if you aren't running through the one time Similacrum spell slots a Warlock makes the best caster to make a Similacrum. Plus you have Eldritch Blast is the best attack cantrip in the game and you get invocations too. If you are Tomelock you have access to all rituals as well

Interesting point. I agree, that works by RAW.

But the RAW version of Simulacrum is wonky anyway. Too many nitpicky technicalities and exploits. A DM is better off just rewriting it. One simple version: "Simulacrum creates a version of the original creature, but it has none of the original creature's memories, and only 50% of its HP. If the original creature has class levels, the simulacrum functions at half the original's level (rounded down) in each class." Voila! Not only does that fix the warlock/wizard/sorcerer imbalance, it also eliminates Simulacrum/Wish abuse because even a 20th level wizard's Simulacrum cannot cast Wish in the first place now.

In exchange, remove the "nor can it regain expended Spell Slots" clause. It is now unnecessary.

After this change, Simulacrum is still quite a good spell. Getting a free 10th level wizard sidekick is nothing to sneeze at. It doubles your concentration economy, for example. (Or you can make a copy of your favorite barbarian, or cleric, or Sharpshooter ranger.) But it's no longer wonky and prone to abuse on technicalities.

[TheTeaMustFlow]

It also eliminates Simulacrum/Wish abuse because even a 20th level wizard's Simulacrum cannot cast Wish in the first place now.

Strictly speaking, you could create a Simulacrum of a non-pc creature capable of casting 9th level spells in that case. So you'd need at least one more clause to prevent that.

[Talionis]

I think any DM worth his salt will prevent loops and anything that creates infinite or excessive power level unless the game is specially tuned for it. I still remember some of those wild high level games in 3.5 best suited for one shoots.

But with a limited spell list Warlock is probably not that broken getting to cast an extra 6,7,8,&9th level spell a day. Simulacrum is already a very powerful game changing spell. One of the few ways to break action economy in this edition. Just thought I'd point it out. See how bad it could be. What people's opinion of the tactic was.

[MaxWilson]

Strictly speaking, you could create a Simulacrum of a non-pc creature capable of casting 9th level spells in that case. So you'd need at least one more clause to prevent that.

Maybe. It depends upon how this hypothetical creature is statted up. A djinn noble or an efreet won't work because it's not an eligible target for Simulacrum.

In AD&D, the Simulacrum received only 40-65% of the original creature's abilities, period, even after you used Limited Wish to give it a vital force. If you could think of a clean way to do that in 5E, you could, but given the target restrictions (beast or humanoid only) it is probably not worth the bother. 95% of all interesting abilities come from class levels anyway so the RoI on coming up with clean, elegant rules for halving racial abilities is low.

[TheTeaMustFlow]

Maybe. It depends upon how this hypothetical creature is statted up. A djinn noble or an efreet won't work because it's not an eligible target for Simulacrum.

In AD&D, the Simulacrum received only 40-65% of the original creature's abilities, period, even after you used Limited Wish to give it a vital force. If you could think of a clean way to do that in 5E, you could, but given the target restrictions (beast or humanoid only) it is probably not worth the bother. 95% of all interesting abilities come from class levels anyway so the RoI on coming up with clean, elegant rules for halving racial abilities is low.

Archmage NPC with the spell prepared (being that it uses Wizard casting, it can change its prepared spells, but it's not a class feature as such), or a Metallic Dragon transformed into the same ('Type' is oddly not one of the traits specified as being retained by the Change Shape ability).

I'd probably just give a clause saying that 'the Simulacrum cannot cast spells of 6th level or higher, nor use abilities or items that replicate their effects', along with 'any attempts to make a copy of a Simulacrum (for example, another creature casting Simulacrum on it, or a Mirror of Opposition) have no effect.'

[MrStabby]

If a Wizard makes a Similacrum of a Warlock I think the Similacrum regains Mystic Arcanum since they don't run on spell slots. So you can argue if you aren't running through the one time Similacrum spell slots a Warlock makes the best caster to make a Similacrum. Plus you have Eldritch Blast is the best attack cantrip in the game and you get invocations too. If you are Tomelock you have access to all rituals as well

RAW this seems legit. A good spot - hadn't seen this before

[Dalebert]

OP is right. Mystic Arcanums aren't spell slots. I've been saying for a while that a warlock is a good candidate for Simulacrum for this reason. Not sure it's as big a deal once you have Wish because then you can just wish up a fresh simulacrum every day in an instant versus spending 12 hours and a lot of cash.

[Finger6842]

My DM simply doesn't allow exploits, even legal ones. Paladins can smite with 1 spell slot only, for example.

Simulacrum is not abused at our table, the simple rule is there can never be more than 1 (per player). We have 3 (Wizard, Warlock, Cleric and Bard) for a total party size of 7. The Warlock and Wizard cloned themselves, I cloned an Archer based Fighter. Without a tank the party tends to lose these things which is a great gold sink.

[Vaz]

My DM simply doesn't allow exploits, even legal ones. Paladins can smite with 1 spell slot only, for example.
You mean like the rules say?