Does Ur priest means forsaking the god you currently pray?

[Sergio]

Because I do not understand if it is just simplistic lore, or I could still pray my god while speccing into UR priest.

[Celestia]

An Ur-Priest acquires magic by stealing it, not by worship. Becoming one causes you to permanently lose any and all divine casting you may have previously had. It is not a class for clerics.

[Waker]

There aren't any mechanical rules that prevent you from doing so. Ur-Priest just requires you to not be a divine caster. The first line in the class description does bear some mention though.

Ur-priests despise gods.

[Palanan]

And yet, some people make reference to “Waker’s Law (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=22219296&postcount=1).”

:smallsmile:

[Buufreak]

There aren't any mechanical rules that prevent you from doing so. Ur-Priest just requires you to not be a divine caster. The first line in the class description does bear some mention though.

As such, I had one that was a "priest" of Mephistopholes. It worked out pretty well. Didn't have that g word, still gave domain access (though not like I got them), fitted into the plotting to screw over the upper planes shtick. Pretty well indeed.

[Flickerdart]

Nothing prevents you from praying to any god at any time, because there are no mechanics associated with prayer. It would be sort of weird since Ur-priests hate gods and steal magic from them, but maybe in an "atheists in foxholes" sort of moment it could make sense. Until you realize that gods probably hate Ur-priests too, and bringing attention to yourself is a bad idea.

[NecroDancer]

I feel like Ur Priests can be good aligned. There whole deal is siphoning god's powers so what if they siphon the powers of evil gods?

Ur Priest: I will defeat you with the power of Asmodeus!

Random NPC: I though you worshiped (random good god), why are you using Asmodeus's power?

Ur Priest: I don't want to waste any of my god's power, duh.

[Hackulator]

I feel like Ur Priests can be good aligned. There whole deal is siphoning god's powers so what if they siphon the powers of evil gods?

Ur Priest: I will defeat you with the power of Asmodeus!

Random NPC: I though you worshiped (random good god), why are you using Asmodeus's power?

Ur Priest: I don't want to waste any of my god's power, duh.

The gods are in charge and like any group in charge they declare things that might lead to them NOT being in charge against the rules.

Thus, mortals stealing gods power is inherently evil in D&D. Even evil gods hate it, but remember that an evil creature can still hate some evil acts, whereas good can't REALLY hate many good acts.

[VoxRationis]

Until you realize that gods probably hate Ur-priests too, and bringing attention to yourself is a bad idea.
Bingo.
In general, though, playing an ur-priest is a bad idea. No matter what the class description says about stealing so little power it can't be noticed, the act of doing so should automatically "ping" and alert any greater gods with magic in their portfolios, to say nothing of investigative work by the servants of any and all deities, and it all goes downhill from there. Basically, by stealing from all gods equally, you're angering all gods equally, and have nowhere to run for sanctuary in a world where gods have powerful mortal organizations following them, can dispatch angels and demons and whatnot, and, depending on whether you're using Deities and Demigods or not, can track you down, teleport in, and kill you in the time it takes to brew a cup of tea.

[Buufreak]

I feel like Ur Priests can be good aligned. There whole deal is siphoning god's powers so what if they siphon the powers of evil gods?

Ur Priest: I will defeat you with the power of Asmodeus!

Random NPC: I though you worshiped (random good god), why are you using Asmodeus's power?

Ur Priest: I don't want to waste any of my god's power, duh.

Mechanically, it could work out, but as far as flavor and alignments go, they are fairly Evil. I'm fairly certain stealing from the baddies is still considered an un-good thing to do.

[Waker]

And yet, some people make reference to “Waker’s Law (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=22219296&postcount=1).”

:smallsmile:

That's a really good law. Whoever wrote it must be both insightful and handsome.

I just had to point out what the standard Ur-Priest fluff said though. I wouldn't have any issue with an Ur-Priest praying to, but not drawing power from, a deity of their choice.

[Florian]

I feel like Ur Priests can be good aligned. There whole deal is siphoning god's powers so what if they siphon the powers of evil gods?

That´s because "the ends justify the means" does absolutely not work with the alignment system.

[Gildedragon]

Mechanically, it could work out, but as far as flavor and alignments go, they are fairly Evil. I'm fairly certain stealing from the baddies is still considered an un-good thing to do.
Stealing is a Chaotic act. Not inherently Evil
One could be Robin Hooding it. In fact, fluffwise it isn't all that different from a Malconvoker
Or an Athar


The gods are in charge and like any group in charge they declare things that might lead to them NOT being in charge against the rules.

Thus, mortals stealing gods power is inherently evil in D&D. Even evil gods hate it, but remember that an evil creature can still hate some evil acts, whereas good can't REALLY hate many good acts.

Gods aren't the final arbiters of morality in DnD though. Considering Pelor has Malconvokers, and Olidammara supports all manner of thievery... well Urpriests being all evil kinda makes no sense.

[Celestia]

Stealing is a Chaotic act. Not inherently Evil
One could be Robin Hooding it. In fact, fluffwise it isn't all that different from a Malconvoker
Or an Athar



Gods aren't the final arbiters of morality in DnD though. Considering Pelor has Malconvokers, and Olidammara supports all manner of thievery... well Urpriests being all evil kinda makes no sense.
Robin Hood stole from the rich and gave to the poor, so, in this metaphor, that means that Ur-Priests steal from the powerful and give to the Soulknives?

[Buufreak]

Stealing is a Chaotic act. Not inherently Evil
One could be Robin Hooding it. In fact, fluffwise it isn't all that different from a Malconvoker
Or an Athar.

Are we talking the sub par "athar" by name only class from whatever book, or the super awesome "we discovered religion is BS and make our own magic" Athar from drag mag?

My other point is Athar don't exactly do anything theft based, if I remember correctly. More like they bypass the deific middle men and go straight to the source of power.

[Gildedragon]

Are we talking the sub par "athar" by name only class from whatever book, or the super awesome "we discovered religion is BS and make our own magic" Athar from drag mag?

My other point is Athar don't exactly do anything theft based, if I remember correctly. More like they bypass the deific middle men and go straight to the source of power.

Not the classes but the faction from sigil
Their fluff shows they'd be very down with stealing gods' powers. They are unworthy of said might, after all.

[Buufreak]

Their fluff shows they'd be very down with stealing gods' powers.

I'm reading about the faction, and I'm not seeing that. Sway people from gods, denounce gods, prove they are nothing more than high horse riding mortals of great power, sure, I'm reading all those things. Actual theft? Negative, sir.

[ATHATH]

Gods aren't the final arbiters of morality in DnD though.
Actually... I think they are. It certainly would explain a lot.