OOTS 1085 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Laurana]

Yay for passive-aggressive Durkon to the rescue! :smallbiggrin:

[johnbragg]

Go Durkon! Whoo!

Um, first? Really? huh. EDIT--Ninja'd! Feel better, somehow. Lotta responsibility that I don't think my post was living up to.

[Shennynerd]

He was able to pull up the memory of the stone and its purpose without thinking of this crucial contingency by association? This is good. Durkon's learned how to keep things from the spirit.

[littlebum2002]

Ahh, gotta love nonviolent, do nothing resistance.

Edit: Can someone remind me what strip the stone is from again?

[Ruck]

Well, from the Order's perspective, this is a much preferable callback to the stone being given freely than the one I suggested in the last thread.

[Vulsutyr]

Love how Durkon* expects Durkon to gladly help him.

[Agi Hammerthief]

"You didn't ask" in other context I hate that line.

[Onyavar]

Ahh, gotta love nonviolent resistance.

Woww.

Let me guess. The Order of the Stick will rush to the door, desperate to prevent the slaughter of the delegates...

...and only by opening the door, they will let the vampires into the temple. They simply need to turn into smoke and waaaaiiiiiit for Roy to arrive.

[gooddragon1]

Reminds me of Jonas Orion in Warhammer 40K dawn of War 2 after you fight him (if you have to fight him).

[Jasdoif]

Huh, Durkon's like a reverse Sumner. "CONGRATULATIONS, YOU HAVE LOST A RUNESTONE."


Can someone remind me what strip the stone is from again?If you mean Roy's, 210 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1024.html).

[Shennynerd]

Stone's first appearance: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1024.html

[Garwain]

Important philosophical moment:"The whole purpose of the door is to open" Hmm.. never really thought about it like that. I always assumed it's whole purpose was to remain shut. Depends on your view I guess. Or your side of the door. Just like a glass can be half-empty or half-full.

Ah well - I'm sure we will find the truth in the middle....

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Can someone remind me what strip the stone is from again?

This one (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1024.html).


desperate to prevent the slaughter of the delegates...
The vampires are not there to slaughter the delegates, and Roy knows it. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1016.html)


Important philosophical moment:"The whole purpose of the door is to open" Hmm.. never really thought about it like that. I always assumed it's whole purpose was to remain shut.
Neither. The purpose of a gate is to restrict access. If its "whole" purpose was to remain shut, you're better off with a wall.

GW

[The MunchKING]

Important philosophical moment:"The whole purpose of the door is to open" Hmm.. never really thought about it like that. I always assumed it's whole purpose was to remain shut. Depends on your view I guess. Or your side of the door. Just like a glass can be half-empty or half-full.

Ah well - I'm sure we will find the truth in the middle....

Depends on what kind of door it is I guess. House/room doors are made to Open. Big Heavy Castle/Fort Doors are made to stay shut and keep invaders out.

[ref]

Durkon wins this one! Go team Cleric!

[FlawedParadigm]

I wonder if Rich is getting tired of the colour red at this point from the internal Durkon strips.

[Anarion]

Learning a little bit more about the contours of the vampire vs. Durkon relationship is interesting. This suggests a wider separation than I might have thought, where the vampire doesn't get memories as needed and doesn't eve know if there's a relevant memory available. I had thought, given his earlier review and use of memories, that he had either spent a lot of time reviewing them or had been getting some vague sense of when he might need memories. But seems he was just guessing.

[Ridureyu]

All that Durkula needs to do is hit the door with a wrench. That should solve the problem.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Learning a little bit more about the contours of the vampire vs. Durkon relationship is interesting. This suggests a wider separation than I might have thought, where the vampire doesn't get memories as needed and doesn't eve know if there's a relevant memory available. I had thought, given his earlier review and use of memories, that he had either spent a lot of time reviewing them or had been getting some vague sense of when he might need memories. But seems he was just guessing.

He's getting complacent. He reviewed a lot of memories when he was trying to pass for Durkon, but now that he is out in the open, his contempt for Durkon is causing him to become sloppy. It was implied stated it takes years months to completely review all of the memories, and he doesn't have the time. His lack of "connect the dots" ability also means he'd have to go through all in sequence, rather than go to the important ones for the situation at hand.

GW

[Forikroder]

man durkon knows how to handle him well

[Windscion]

Go Durkon! Go team Dwarf!
Hahahaha you suck, Greg!

Yet one more proof that Greg lacks even the first clue about being a true dwarf. Namely, the true part. Not surprising, but nice to see it backfire on his tainted corpse.

[Reboot]

OotS are going to enable Durkula to continue, aren't they?

[Psyren]

He's getting complacent. He reviewed a lot of memories when he was trying to pass for Durkon, but now that he is out in the open, his contempt for Durkon is causing him to become sloppy. It was implied it takes years to completely review all of the memories, and he doesn't have the time. His lack of "connect the dots" ability also means he'd have to go through all in sequence, rather than go to the important ones for the situation at hand.

GW

What Greg needs is a forumite rules lawyer to request memories on his behalf.

"Show me every way you know of to access that room, and nothing else" might have helped.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

OotS are going to enable Durkula to continue, aren't they?

Maybe? There might be other ways in, messier and more dangerous. But at the very least, this is a delay, which is good for the OotS, regardless of what happens next.


What Greg needs is a forumite rules lawyer to request memories on his behalf.

"Show me every way you know of to access that room, and nothing else" might have helped.
(emphasis mine)
Actually, that might have been precisely what Durkon showed Greg: Durkon accessing that room with that stone, and not the bit about the stone's rules

GW

[Keltest]

OotS are going to enable Durkula to continue, aren't they?

I would be surprised if it comes to that. There are enough clerical spells that create passages in rock that team vampire can still make progress here. If they cant go through the door, make their own.

[GudBelkarIsGud]

That is an amazing character right there! Even in death, Durkon manages to be quietly awesome - and literally, in this case. I'm also happy to see that Durkon's no longer susceptible to the guilt-tripping that Greg tries to throw his way. It's the rare case where character growth happens even after the character shuffles off his mortal coil. Keep it up, Durkon!

[Shennynerd]

What's interesting is that the stone didn't immediately crumble, which I assumed would be the case, but only once it started being used to unlock the door. Wonder if that'll come into play later.

[PH7]

Yeah Durkon's back! And he's doing what dwarves do best: nothing. (in a good way).

[Kantaki]

Yay, Durkon!:smallbiggrin:
You rock!:smallcool:
Go to yer bosslady Durkula!:smalltongue:

[Windscion]

I would be surprised if it comes to that. There are enough clerical spells that create passages in rock that team vampire can still make progress here. If they cant go through the door, make their own.
Plus, I'd bet real money that the ex-exarch knows a LOT about stone. I mean, even compared to most dwarves.

[hroþila]

He's getting complacent. He reviewed a lot of memories when he was trying to pass for Durkon, but now that he is out in the open, his contempt for Durkon is causing him to become sloppy. It was implied it takes years to completely review all of the memories, and he doesn't have the time. His lack of "connect the dots" ability also means he'd have to go through all in sequence, rather than go to the important ones for the situation at hand.

GW
He could have called upon all memories related to the stone the moment he learned it was important, like when he requested memories of deeply personal bonds between Durkon and Belkar that could help in a particular situation. He is indeed getting complacent.

[woweedd]

Ah, Durkon. Awesome moments for you are few-and-far between, but when (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0352.html)they (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0453.html)happen...Dammit, do they.

[IDrankWHAT]

And passive-aggressive Durkon for the pseudo win!

[Grey_Wolf_c]

He could have called upon all memories related to the stone the moment he learned it was important, like when he requested memories of deeply personal bonds between Durkon and Belkar that could help in a particular situation. He is indeed getting complacent.

Playing devil's advocate for a moment, it's a key. Greg asked for the memory of "how to access Firmament" and Durkon showed him a key. It is too usual a method of access to immediately wonder if there is a second bit to the story involving getting the key freely. Yes, in hindsight Greg would've done better to inquire further, but there are infinite details which, if he was being careful, he'd need to inquire further on: what about the door? Maybe the floor in front of the door has an enchantment against undead? Maybe the passage beyond requires a prayer to Thor or alarms are raised? Maybe, maybe, maybe. Greg is on a tight schedule, and no matter how quickly time runs inside his head, he doesn't have an infinite amount of it.

But certainly his contempt and complacency aren't helping his cause.

GW

[Shining Wrath]

Ah, Durkon's back in the battle. You can't keep a good dwarf down, Greg.

Well, you can, but he does have his opportunities to fight back.

And since Greg doesn't understand the idea of personal growth, he has no concept of what it means that Durkon has faced the memory of his worst moment, processed it, and found the strength to keep struggling.

Yellow mold is excellent. :smallbiggrin:

[NihhusHuotAliro]

Seeing the vampire frustrated and tricked by his mental prisoner is incredibly satisfying.

Take THAT, Jerkon.

[KorvinStarmast]

Let me guess. The Order of the Stick will rush to the door, desperate to prevent the slaughter of the delegates ... ...and only by opening the door, they will let the vampires into the temple. They simply need to turn into smoke and waaaaiiiiiit for Roy to arrive. That was my guess as well.
All that Durkula needs to do is hit the door with a wrench. That should solve the problem. Andistyle FTL.

What Greg needs is a forumite rules lawyer to request memories on his behalf. "Get rid of the rules lawyers. They're the enemy." ~ Dave Arneson

You can't keep a good dwarf down, Greg. /me Durkon voice
Enough with the short jokes, eh? :smallbiggrin:

The final panel, with the yellow mold ref, got me chortling. Nice one, Giant! :smallbiggrin:

[are]

Man, I love everything about this strip. I do love seeing villains get righteous comeuppance. Also, it's great to see Durkon undergoing character growth. Seems like he's recovered a bit from the last time we saw him.



Woww.

Let me guess. The Order of the Stick will rush to the door, desperate to prevent the slaughter of the delegates...

...and only by opening the door, they will let the vampires into the temple. They simply need to turn into smoke and waaaaiiiiiit for Roy to arrive.

OOTS are coming in the secret backdoor to the temple of Thor which opens onto the surface so the clerics can check the weather.



Playing devil's advocate for a moment, it's a key.

Surely you mean vampire's advocate :smallcool:

[Shining Wrath]

That was my guess as well. Andistyle FTL.
"Get rid of the rules lawyers. They're the enemy." ~ Dave Arneson
/me Durkon voice
Enough with the short jokes, eh? :smallbiggrin:

The final panel, with the yellow mold ref, got me chortling. Nice one, Giant! :smallbiggrin:

<Vaarsuvius voice>
Far be it from me to mock your shortcomings.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

OOTS are coming in the secret backdoor to the temple of Thor which opens onto the surface so the clerics can check the weather.
Which can only be opened with one of those stones. So unless every door of the temple works the same way, the vampires are already at the door the OotS has been told to use. Never mind, the canon is quite clear: the stones open every door in the temple. So yes indeed, this might be an underground access different from the one the OotS is heading towards.


Surely you mean vampire's advocate :smallyuk:
:shrug: The devil's in the details.

GW

[Cazero]

I would be surprised if it comes to that. There are enough clerical spells that create passages in rock that team vampire can still make progress here. If they cant go through the door, make their own.
When you have an adamantium door, you better get some adamantium in your walls as well. It's only logical for those walls to have even more wards than the door has.

[Keltest]

Which can only be opened with one of those stones. So unless every door of the temple works the same way, the vampires are already at the door the OotS has been told to use.


:shrug: The devil's in the details.

GW

memory priest says it unlocks any door to the temple.


When you have an adamantium door, you better get some adamantium in your walls as well. It's only logical for those walls to have even more wards than the door has.

yeah, but these are dwarves. Logical, they aint.

[are]

Which can only be opened with one of those stones. So unless every door of the temple works the same way, the vampires are already at the door the OotS has been told to use.


:shrug: The devil's in the details.

GW

I suppose it's possible that they're aboveground, but I think we saw that exit when Durkon was thrown out the door in 1007 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1007.html)'s flashback. It's possible that that isn't Firmament's temple to Thor, but given that the High Priestess of Thor had access to Hurak's records, it seems likely that it's the same place.

Also, the vampires are in some kind of underground tunnel, per the last panel of 1084, not a direct surface exit. Not that any of this is proof positive that that's not the outside door, but it all points in that direction to me.

[Mikemical]

"It's like fighting some kind of giant monstruous wallflower."

Somebody call MatPat from Game Theory, there's another thing for him to put in his Undertale conspiracy videos.

[nbLurkerAbove]

Which can only be opened with one of those stones. So unless every door of the temple works the same way, the vampires are already at the door the OotS has been told to use.


:shrug: The devil's in the details.

GW

It doesn't have to be every door, it could be (for example) the main door to keep most people out, and the door to the surface that is more vulnerable to intrusion.

All that to say they don't have to be at the order's entrance.

Never posted this early on a discussion thread before, it moves FAST! :smalleek:

[TerrickTerran]

Yellow Mold for the win. Go Durkon.:smallbiggrin:

[hroþila]

Playing devil's advocate for a moment, it's a key. Greg asked for the memory of "how to access Firmament" and Durkon showed him a key. It is too usual a method of access to immediately wonder if there is a second bit to the story involving getting the key freely. Yes, in hindsight Greg would've done better to inquire further, but there are infinite details which, if he was being careful, he'd need to inquire further on: what about the door? Maybe the floor in front of the door has an enchantment against undead? Maybe the passage beyond requires a prayer to Thor or alarms are raised? Maybe, maybe, maybe. Greg is on a tight schedule, and no matter how quickly time runs inside his head, he doesn't have an infinite amount of it.

But certainly his contempt and complacency aren't helping his cause.

GW
True. Plus I imagine calling upon all those memories has to be pretty dull for the vampire spirit.

[noce]

Why won't it open? It's a door! That's ITS whole purpose!

Please, be good at your own language.

[Shining Wrath]

Meta-wise, the most dramatic approach is for Greg to realize OotS has a stone, and try to dominate someone into giving it to him. If he can catch Belkar without his Protection from Evil active, he could get him to pick Roy's pocket, and then kill him after he delivers the stone.

[arrowed]

So... Durkon can ommit details/memories that the vamp doesn't directly ask for? Are we going to get some odd variant of wish-lawyering where the vampire tries to get the necessary memories, with Durkon trying to hide vital details? Will Durkon drive the vamp mad from within?

[OverdrivePrime]

Strength and Honor, Durkon!

And righteous passive-aggressive smuggery! :smallamused:

[Warmatt]

I liked this one. A very nice case of passive-resistance rules lawyering, with a nice zinger at the end. For he may be dead and imprisoned, but why would that stop his duty to the dwarven people?

[Bluepaw]

Interesting that the spectral representation of the vampire's spirit within Durkon's body is still wearing armor, even as the vampire itself has changed into robes. Significance, or just continuity?

[Kantaki]

Meta-wise, the most dramatic approach is for Greg to realize OotS has a stone, and try to dominate someone into giving it to him. If he can catch Belkar without his Protection from Evil active, he could get him to pick Roy's pocket, and then kill him after he delivers the stone.

He can't. If the Belkster takes the stone from Roy it will share the fate of the one Durkula just broke.So Roy would have to give the stone to whoever got dominated and I don't see that happening.
And dominating Roy to get the stone is unlikely to work either.

Although the second stone breaking too would solve the peoblem of Dvalin's council getting controlled.

[are]

Meta-wise, the most dramatic approach is for Greg to realize OotS has a stone, and try to dominate someone into giving it to him. If he can catch Belkar without his Protection from Evil active, he could get him to pick Roy's pocket, and then kill him after he delivers the stone.

That doesn't sound like the runestone being "given freely" to me. I don't think Greg will be able to get into the temple before OotS arrive; he'll have to rely on one of his aforementioned contingencies to make sure the vote goes his way.\


Interesting that the spectral representation of the vampire's spirit within Durkon's body is still wearing armor, even as the vampire itself has changed into robes. Significance, or just continuity?

The vampire was created "to fit into the hole in Durkon's heart," and it seems like his appearance is Durkon's, just before Malack killed him. His beard is still intact, as well.

Also, since Durkon is wearing armor inside his own head, it seems like the rules for creating spirits work like the afterlife: you appear as you imagine yourself to be in the prime of your life.

[ATHATH]

That dwarf that commented on how doors are meant to open used the wrong form of "it's" (the second time; the first time was a correct usage). The correct form should have been "its".

T R I G G E R E D

[zimmerwald1915]

Is it just me, or have there been more than the usual number of jokes about mold in the last few strips? First Haley's on the Mechane, then Durkon's now.

Eh, it's probably nothing.

[Thorongil]

The rate of comic updates is astounding. You spoil us, Giant!

[Laurana]

Plus, I'd bet real money that the ex-exarch knows a LOT about stone. I mean, even compared to most dwarves.

They should all be short on their high-level spells though.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0995.html

[hroþila]

[S]The vampire was created "to fit into the hole in Durkon's heart," and it seems like his appearance is Durkon's, just before Malack killed him. His beard is still intact, as well.

Also, since Durkon is wearing armor inside his own head, it seems like the rules for creating spirits work like the afterlife: you appear as you imagine yourself to be in the prime of your life.
Assuming the scenes in Durkon's head are actually happening as we see them and they aren't just metaphorical representations of an intangible and invisible reality, of course.

[Keltest]

Is it just me, or have there been more than the usual number of jokes about mold in the last few strips? First Haley's on the Mechane, then Durkon's now.

Eh, it's probably nothing.

I suppose any number would seem like a pretty large increase above zero.

[Shining Wrath]

Is it just me, or have there been more than the usual number of jokes about mold in the last few strips? First Haley's on the Mechane, then Durkon's now.

Eh, it's probably nothing.

<sighs>

Another person complaining about Rich's sense of humor going stale. I still assert he's a fungi to read. :smallsmile:

[Aerysil]

I completely forgot Durkon wasn't really a bad guy.

[Kantaki]

I completely forgot Durkon wasn't really a bad guy.

Of course he his.
Haven't you seen how he tricked that poor vampire into breaking his new toy?
That kind of behaviur isawful.:smalltongue:

[a_flemish_guy]

outside of durkon starting to know and actively use the vampire's lack of complete control over his memories I also really like how he deflected the guy's attempt at guilt tripping

[Malfarian]

I cheered aloud reading this comic, GO DURKON GO!

[8BitNinja]

A door's job isn't just to open, vampire cleric

It's job is also to keep unwanted intruders out

[Throknor]

What's interesting is that the stone didn't immediately crumble, which I assumed would be the case, but only once it started being used to unlock the door. Wonder if that'll come into play later.

It's possible that the failed activation set off an alarm elsewhere and at least someone may be alerted to an intrusion. There may in fact be something in motion to trap any intruder automatically. At least, those are things I would consider when designing such a system.

Also, if it crumbled just by someone else touching it then if a priest drops it when sleeping and someone tries to help him <crunch> there goes the key. This on-use method lets them be moved by anyone and only comes in to play when they are actually used inappropriately.

[Porthos]

Again with the passive aggressive insults. :smallmad: Sakes alive, Durkula is starting to get on my nerves*.

* Understatement.

Which is a great way of showing how different he is from other antagonists like Xykon and even Tarquin. They at least have a pinch of style. And, failing that, at least they can be funny.

But Durkula is just one mass of pettiness and smugness. With a decent dose of self-righteousness on the side.

It is going to be so so delicious to see him get his comeuppance.

[Unoriginal]

A cheer for all the molds and other fungi in D&D that are often ignored just because they're not in the MM!

[Kish]

Again with the passive aggressive insults. :smallmad: Sakes alive,[...]

* Understatement.

Which is a great way of showing how different he is from other antagonists like Xykon and even Tarquin. They at least have a pinch of style. And, failing that, at least they can be funny.

[...]

It is going to be so so delicious to see him get his comeuppance.
Huh.

Well. Now you know how I felt whenever Tarquin was on-panel.

[IntelectPaladin]

Well done, Mr. Burlew.
I just wonder how the vampires are going to use roy's stone at this point,
as well as at just how badly this can go.
Knowing Mr. Burlew, It could easily go from the frying pan to the magma.
Thank you for reading this, and I hope you have a nice day!
(Edit): Oh, and before I forget: It's nice to see Durkon fighting back again.

[ReturnOfTheKing]

WOO! :durkon:

DUR-KON! DUR-KON! DUR-KON!

[ManuelSacha]

Passive resistance. I love it! :smallcool:

[Peelee]

Good strategy. If Durkon's passive, then be passive in his favor. Like if they're big and you're small, then you're mobile and they're slow. You're hidden and they're exposed. You only fight battles you know you can win.

Oh, Enemy of the State, what can't you teach us?

[Durkoala]

I wasn't expecting Durkon to recover and fight back against the Low Priest of Hel so quickly, but their battles of wits (and stubborness) are still just as fun to watch.

[Chei]

So glad to see Durkon back. He was bruised, not broken.

If Greg's minions, and not even the named ones, are throwing out Greater Dispel Magic, that actually fills me with dread for how bitter a fight this is going to be. But that also got me thinking about thralls and the HD requirement. IIRC, a vampire controls up to twice his HD in thralls. Minimum caster level for GDM is 11, so I think one of those three vampires might not be Durkon's thrall. Maybe they're Exarch Hammerfell's?

[Khay]

Important philosophical moment:"The whole purpose of the door is to open" Hmm.. never really thought about it like that. I always assumed it's whole purpose was to remain shut. Depends on your view I guess. Or your side of the door. Just like a glass can be half-empty or half-full.

Ah well - I'm sure we will find the truth in the middle....

It's kinda both, innit? The purpose of a hole in the wall is to be open. The purpose of a wall is to not be open. A good door can do both.

Wow, that's, like, so deep.

[Shining Wrath]

It's kinda both, innit? The purpose of a hole in the wall is to be open. The purpose of a wall is to not be open. A good door can do both.

Wow, that's, like, so deep.


There are things which are seen, and things which are unseen; in between, the doors of perception.

- A. Huxley

Which is why Jim Morrison's band was named The Doors.

[knag]

They should all be short on their high-level spells though.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0995.html

That was yesterday (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1050.html). They should have rested and regained spells since then.

[JumboWheat01]

Woo! Durkon's still fighting, this is good. Also...

"Why won't it open? It's a door! That's its whole purpose!"

I may've chuckled real good at that one. I also may use that at some point.

[dtilque]

I would be surprised if it comes to that. There are enough clerical spells that create passages in rock that team vampire can still make progress here. If they cant go through the door, make their own.

Like Stone Shape, that Durkon used to exit Bleedingham (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0732.html) without going through a gate. Or Passwall. Since this is a Dwarf temple, I would hope they would think of things like that and protect the walls from those spells.


Please, be good at your own language.


That dwarf that commented on how doors are meant to open used the wrong form of "it's" (the second time; the first time was a correct usage). The correct form should have been "its".


The grammar police are out in force today. That's the second most common grammatical error on the internet. Not too surprised it shows up here.


They should all be short on their high-level spells though.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0995.html

If it's after sunset, they've regained their spells.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

This strip was very satisfying to watch. I hope we see more of Durkon; I want to see more of him succeeding against The High Priest of Hel.

[Jasdoif]

The grammar police are out in force today. That's the second most common grammatical error on the internet. Not too surprised it shows up here.Clearly(?) the vampire was hoping someone on the other side would open the door just to issue a correction.

[factotum]

If it's after sunset, they've regained their spells.

It's probably not even the same day by now, surely? I know the Mechane is fast, but to get all the way through the pass (including Andi's little detour) and out into the lower ground on the other side should surely take more than a few hours. Plus, how long did it take Thrym to organise the trap in the pass?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

It's probably not even the same day by now, surely? I know the Mechane is fast, but to get all the way through the pass (including Andi's little detour) and out into the lower ground on the other side should surely take more than a few hours. Plus, how long did it take Thrym to organise the trap in the pass?

Like knag said (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=22227807&postcount=82), this strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1050.html) suggests that a new day started. Note how the day is bright again, whereas last time they were on deck (some 5 strips before then) it was almost dark. Also, Haley and Elan where busy doing activities usually associated with night time.

GW

[The MunchKING]

Also, Haley and Elan where busy doing activities usually associated with night time.

GW

Or "Anytime we have a free moment" depending on hormones at the like. :p

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Or "Anytime we have a free moment" depending on hormones at the like. :p

Well, yes, I'm aware its weak circumstantial evidence at best (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0690.html).

GW

[Basement Cat]

It makes sense that after his recently hitting rock bottom emotionally Durkon finds it in him (no pun intended) to rally against the evil Greg.

Greg's assertion that people are only as good as they are in their worst moment can thus be challenged by how people can be at their finest moment.

And everybody knows how stubborn fantasy dwarfs can be. Go Durkon! :smallsmile:

[Jasdoif]

Like knag said (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=22227807&postcount=82), this strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1050.html) suggests that a new day started. Note how the day is bright again, whereas last time they were on deck (some 5 strips before then) it was almost dark.Another question would be, "what time is it now?" There's no frame of reference for how much time passed (if any) for the cutaway to Hel (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1080.html).

Unlike wizards, clerics need to prepare their spells at a certain time of day so leaving spell slots open isn't a viable option; if they've already prepared their spells for the day, and their spell selection didn't account for bypassing doors they didn't think would be a problem to enter, then the Order's going to arrive before they can prepare new spells for the problem at hand.

[Elkins]

I'm quite enjoying the steadily emerging background characterization of Gone-tor. Apparently, the poor old Exarch's dark mirror has some very strong (and very rigid!) feelings about hierarchies and utility and the "proper order" of things. Seems appropriate enough, for the vampire spirit of a dwarf who in life chose to worship elemental stone.

[ti'esar]

"Some kinda giant wallflower."

Hmm. Is this another (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0963.html) example of Greg seeming to unconsciously drift into Durkon's accent?

[knag]

Well, yes, I'm aware its weak circumstantial evidence at best (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0690.html).

GW

It's actually much better than that. In panel 3 of #1050, Haley said she received the sending from Lien "last night", so the day of the Battle of Passage Pass is the day following Lien and O-Chul staking out Kraagor's Tomb.

We saw the sun set in #1036, and the sky lighten again in #1049. The current date is the day following Godsmoot.

[Goaty14]

"It's like fighting some kind of giant monstrous wallflower"

Do you mean THIS (http://i.imgur.com/WSFuU8n.jpg) giant monstrous wallflower!?

[Matt620]

This is actually an interesting take on someone who has access to all of the information and choses not to use it. It's always fun to watch an arrogant SOB take one on the face when he had the chance to know better.

[Psyren]

(emphasis mine)
Actually, that might have been precisely what Durkon showed Greg: Durkon accessing that room with that stone, and not the bit about the stone's rules

GW

Indeed, but my larger point stands - GitP rules lawyers could find a loophole that Greg could not.

[georgie_leech]

Indeed, but my larger point stands - GitP rules lawyers could find a loophole that Greg could not.

That's mostly by virtue of having a whole lot of people with way too much time on their hands. :smallbiggrin:

[Darkhands]

In the final panel: "Rot your face off". Would Durkon's accent allow him to enunciate "your"? Wouldn't "yer" be more Durkonish?

[Jay R]

That's the first positive thing I've ever heard any adventurer say about yellow mold.

[8BitNinja]

That's the first positive thing I've ever heard any adventurer say about yellow mold.

This is the first positive thing I've heard anyone say about mold in general.

[Psychronia]

Yeah Durkon! You tell that sentient bundle of negative energy molded into an unholy semblance of life!

I feel like there was potential for a tree joke at the end there, but Yellow Mold makes for a better quote.

[Jasdoif]

This is the first positive thing I've heard anyone say about mold in general.Blue cheese is delicious, thanks to mold. Penicillin saves lives, and exists thanks to mold.

[2D8HP]

In the final panel: "Rot your face off". Would Durkon's accent allow him to enunciate "your"? Wouldn't "yer" be more Durkonish?


I believe that English common phrase "Rot your face off" fully translated into Scots Dwaven would be "Rot yer coupon aff"

[Gift Jeraff]

"Some kinda giant wallflower."

Hmm. Is this another (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0963.html) example of Greg seeming to unconsciously drift into Durkon's accent?

Good catch. I hope it is, since the vampire still kind of feels like a non-character (hell, I felt like he was more distinguished as Malack's childlike thrall) and any kind of development would be welcome.

[Mandor]

Clearly(?) the vampire was hoping someone on the other side would open the door just to issue a correction.
But, the XKCD: Duty Calls (https://xkcd.com/386/) guy, was not a Dwarf, and thus the world was saved. :smallsmile:

[Dilvish]

:durkon: I'm like yellow mold. Step on my and I'll rot your face off.

LOVE it. Glad to see Durkon's still finding ways to resist , even bound as he is.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Yes, that was a great line by Durkon. :)

[AutomatedTeller]

Go Durkon!!

[danielxcutter]

VampirExarch is comedy gold. :smallbiggrin:

That last panel is hilarious too. Don't know what yellow mold is, but I get the idea.

[Goblin_Priest]

Good catch. I hope it is, since the vampire still kind of feels like a non-character (hell, I felt like he was more distinguished as Malack's childlike thrall) and any kind of development would be welcome.

Aren't OotSverse undead incapable of growth?

[danielxcutter]

Aren't OotSverse undead incapable of growth?

I think the Giant actually said something to the contrary... *casts Summon Banana*

[White Magic]

"Show me every way you know of to access that room, and nothing else" might have helped.

Cheers! :smallbiggrin::smalltongue::smallsmile:

Durkon is not a file-server (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0948.html) that responds as requested to even well-parsed commands. Undurkon* asked something just like that to discover the use of the key-stone. Is there another way he could have learned of it?

[danielxcutter]

Cheers! :smallbiggrin::smalltongue::smallsmile:

Durkon is not a file-server (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0948.html) that responds as requested to even well-parsed commands. Undurkon* asked something just like that to discover the use of the key-stone. Is there another way he could have learned of it?

Well, there is this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0957.html)...

[White Magic]

So... Durkon can omit details/memories that the vamp doesn't directly ask for? Are we going to get some odd variant of wish-lawyering where the vampire tries to get the necessary memories, with Durkon trying to hide vital details? Will Durkon drive the vamp mad from within?

Yes.:smallbiggrin:
Yes.:smalltongue:
Yes. :smallsmile:
Durkon is tops.

[White Magic]

memory priest says it unlocks any door to the temple.
yeah, but these are dwarves. Logical, they aint.

yeah, but good builders they are. Ask anyone.

[Epinephrine_Syn]

Funny enough, the thing I think about here is "All they need to do is find another priest, turn him into some kinda undead, then have him open the gate." To be fair, the gate may be smart enough to recognize an undead version as "not the same person", but it's entirely plausible that if they vamped that priest, that priest coulda just let them in 'freely'.

(They may not have that capacity anymore, admittedly, though maybe even a Wight would do.)

[Jasdoif]

I think the Giant actually said something to the contrary... *casts Summon Banana*Time for me to work on that astral plane barrier again, I see....



One of the themes in the comic is "Only living things can learn and change". Is it a wink to the Discworld ?No, not at all. I've never read the Discworld novels, so I don't even know how it would be. Further, that is not an intentional theme of OOTS; Malack certainly learned and changed over the course of his undeath, or else he would never have been able to manage the complex scheme that he started with Tarquin. Arguably, if Malack were incapable of learning, he would never have "learned" to underestimate Nale, thus negating the impact of his demise. Heck, Crystal just "learned" that Bozzok was bad for her and turned on him, something she never managed to do in her entire mortal life. Some of the characters may believe that only living things can learn, but it's not a thematic statement, or even especially accurate.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Playing devil's advocate for a moment, it's a key. Greg asked for the memory of "how to access Firmament" and Durkon showed him a key. It is too usual a method of access to immediately wonder if there is a second bit to the story involving getting the key freely. Yes, in hindsight Greg would've done better to inquire further, but there are infinite details which, if he was being careful, he'd need to inquire further on: what about the door? Maybe the floor in front of the door has an enchantment against undead? Maybe the passage beyond requires a prayer to Thor or alarms are raised? Maybe, maybe, maybe. Greg is on a tight schedule, and no matter how quickly time runs inside his head, he doesn't have an infinite amount of it.

But certainly his contempt and complacency aren't helping his cause.

GW

The vampire is an idiot, because you don't just ask for the key, you ask about the security as well. Being able to unlock the front door is no good if the burglar alarm goes of thirty seconds later.

Or to put it another way: "You should've taken the whole book.The warnings come after the spells."

[Grey_Wolf_c]

The vampire is an idiot, because you don't just ask for the key, you ask about the security as well. Being able to unlock the front door is no good if the burglar alarm goes of thirty seconds later.

Again, for all you know he did ask, and Durkon honestly showed that there was no further security beyond needing the rune to open the door (plus the air-tight seal & magic resistance). Unless he happened to ask about any magical effects on the key itself, he'd not have learnt of it. That doesn't make him an idiot. It is easy to second-guess the questions with the advantage of hindsight, and days to think of the questions, and plenty of other forumnites to bounce ideas off of, but Greg doesn't have any of that.

To be absolutely clear, my point here is that there is an infinite number of things a vampire'd need to ask to be sure that they have all the memories of the host. The process usually takes months. Greg has days at best. Therefore, yes, there is an angle that Durkon can exploit, helped by the fact that Greg doesn't think much of Durkon and believes himself superior to him. But there is a large gap between that and saying that Greg is stupid. He clearly is not, given how well he has been plotting and scheming so far.

Grey Wolf

[Chei]

"Ye dinnae ask fer it. Also, I hate ye an' I want ye ta fail."

This may be my favorite Durkon line ever, come to think of it. You always get those trickster characters smarming "You didn't ask," but Durkon ain't like that. He's got a real reason he did it, and he makes sure Greg knows, but Durkon's also going to rub in Greg's face that he's not infallible. It's a good time, that line.

[JennTora]

The door thing reminds me of a Foster's home for imaginary friends conversation.

Bloo: doors are for opening.

Mr herriman: and they are also for shutting. Locking out deep dark secrets that must never see the light of day.

Or something to that effect. It's been a while.

And there's one way Durkon's managed to deceive him with true memories. Hilarious.



"Ye dinnae ask fer it. Also, I hate ye an' I want ye ta fail."

This may be my favorite Durkon line ever, come to think of it. You always get those trickster characters smarming "You didn't ask," but Durkon ain't like that. He's got a real reason he did it, and he makes sure Greg knows, but Durkon's also going to rub in Greg's face that he's not infallible. It's a good time, that line.

Agreed. That's gotta be durkon's best line ever.

[Shoelessgdowar]

Important philosophical moment:"The whole purpose of the door is to open" Hmm.. never really thought about it like that. I always assumed it's whole purpose was to remain shut. Depends on your view I guess. Or your side of the door. Just like a glass can be half-empty or half-full.

Ah well - I'm sure we will find the truth in the middle....

The statement is a fallacy. A glass is never half-empty nor half-full, it is always totally full, unless an added qualifier is used. Even a hole is totally full, despite being conceptually abound emptiness.

A hole in the ground still is full of air, dust, particles, atoms, and leptons, it is merely the absence of dirt. Likewise a glass. An be half-full of ice and creme soda, but still is filled the rest of the way with air. There us a reason hole and whole sound the same, because technically they are the same.


Man, I love everything about this strip. I do love seeing villains get righteous comeuppance. Also, it's great to see Durkon undergoing character growth. Seems like he's recovered a bit from the last time we saw him.

OOTS are coming in the secret backdoor to the temple of Thor which opens onto the surface so the clerics can check the weather.

Surely you mean vampire's advocate :smallcool:

Could mean Hel's advocate...






This is the first positive thing I've heard anyone say about mold in general.

Blue cheese is delicious, thanks to mold. Penicillin saves lives, and exists thanks to mold.

I was going to mention cheese is awesome, and penicillin is pretty cool too. While we're at it, cyclosporine is cool too, and it comes from mold.

[DataNinja]

Funny enough, the thing I think about here is "All they need to do is find another priest, turn him into some kinda undead, then have him open the gate." To be fair, the gate may be smart enough to recognize an undead version as "not the same person", but it's entirely plausible that if they vamped that priest, that priest coulda just let them in 'freely'.

(They may not have that capacity anymore, admittedly, though maybe even a Wight would do.)

It takes 3 days for a vampire to rise normally, though. So... they probably don't want to quite waste that amount of time.

[Jannoire]

I can't shake the feeling that this was at least foreshadowed in #0963 (memory of the fight between the toad and Roy).

The vampire being unable to "see it" (whatever Durkon meant), leading to Durkon realizing that the vampire is not at full control over Durkons memories...

[factotum]

Another question would be, "what time is it now?" There's no frame of reference for how much time passed (if any) for the cutaway to Hel (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1080.html).

Hel specifically says in strip #1084: "Thrym has failed to stop the dwarf's allies, and they will arrive at Thor's temple in Firmament before midnight.". That kind of suggests to me that they're going to arrive during the night, or else she'd have said "before sunset". That means that the vampire clerics will have had a chance to refresh their spell allocation before the Order arrive.

[Cazero]

I can't shake the feeling that this was at least foreshadowed in #0963 (memory of the fight between the toad and Roy).

The vampire being unable to "see it" (whatever Durkon meant), leading to Durkon realizing that the vampire is not at full control over Durkons memories...
The vampire was unable to see the obvious connection between the memories, namely that Durkon's insistence on not doing anything until Roy made his opinion about receiving help clear was a direct consequence of his ma scolding him for his unwarranted help that broke dishes. Durkula dismissed both events as "Durkon being stupid", whereas Durkon had an (small) epiphany about his own personality.

[Kardwill]

Again, for all you know he did ask, and Durkon honestly showed that there was no further security beyond needing the rune to open the door (plus the air-tight seal & magic resistance). Unless he happened to ask about any magical effects on the key itself, he'd not have learnt of it. That doesn't make him an idiot. It is easy to second-guess the questions with the advantage of hindsight, and days to think of the questions, and plenty of other forumnites to bounce ideas off of, but Greg doesn't have any of that.


Yeah, even the question "can anyone use the stone?" would have triggered a vision of some non-dwarf non-Thor adept opening the door, or the answer, "Aye, tha owner of a runestone can open any door, even if he's an unholy Hel-worshippin' abomination"

Trying to cover contingencies for problems you don't even know about is hard.

[Unoriginal]

The question was probably "how do you open the door?" and Durkon showed him a memory of him using the stone on the door.

[dtilque]

The question was probably "how do you open the door?" and Durkon showed him a memory of him using the stone on the door.

Note that this is not Durkon's former temple, so he probably never opened that particular door. But all Dwarf temples use the same roonstone keys, so that's not a big deal. Durkon's memories showed Durkula how temple doors in general were opened.

[Asmodean_]

"Also I hate ye and want ye ta fail"

Gold.

[lenon3579]

Important philosophical moment:"The whole purpose of the door is to open" Hmm.. never really thought about it like that. I always assumed it's whole purpose was to remain shut. Depends on your view I guess. Or your side of the door. Just like a glass can be half-empty or half-full.

Ah well - I'm sure we will find the truth in the middle....

If its purpose was to remain shut, you wouldn't need a door at all. Just build a wall instead.

If its purpose was to open, you wouldn't need a door at all. Just make a hole in the wall.

The door's purpose is to open and close depending on who wants to enter. It serves to allow some people access while denying it to others. That's why it opens AND closes. The easiness of its opening depends on the number of people you want to let outside the room and its importance.

[137beth]

Sweet, a perfect callback to HPoT giving Roy her stone.

[danielxcutter]

Sweet, a perfect callback to HPoT giving Roy her stone.

For a second my brain derped and read that as "hot pot".

[Sir_Norbert]

That dwarf that commented on how doors are meant to open used the wrong form of "it's" (the second time; the first time was a correct usage). The correct form should have been "its".

Also, when Durkon says 'im, an opening quotation mark is used instead of the correct apostrophe.

[Jasdoif]

Hel specifically says in strip #1084: "Thrym has failed to stop the dwarf's allies, and they will arrive at Thor's temple in Firmament before midnight.". That kind of suggests to me that they're going to arrive during the night, or else she'd have said "before sunset". That means that the vampire clerics will have had a chance to refresh their spell allocation before the Order arrive.If she said that before sunset, sure. Hence my question of what time it was.

[goto124]

Also, when Durkon says 'im, an opening quotation mark is used instead of the correct apostrophe.

I thought that was his accent... not that it would make much sense, come to think of it.

[Quibblicious]

That's the first positive thing I've ever heard any adventurer say about yellow mold.


This is the first positive thing I've heard anyone say about mold in general.


Blue cheese is delicious, thanks to mold. Penicillin saves lives, and exists thanks to mold.

Not to mention certain beers and other brews. Sauternes wines are a direct result of mold.

Q

[Shining Wrath]

This is the first positive thing I've heard anyone say about mold in general.

Doctor Alexander Fleming?

[klarg1]

Depends on what kind of door it is I guess. House/room doors are made to Open. Big Heavy Castle/Fort Doors are made to stay shut and keep invaders out.

Sure, but I think Greg's philosophical point stands.

If the door was never meant to open, it would be built as a wall. :smallwink:

[Unoriginal]

I like how Greg's and Durkon's facial expressions become more and more similar in each panel, and they match perfectly in the last strip.

Dunno if it was intentional, but it's nice.

[Kantaki]

Sure, but I think Greg's philosophical point stands.

If the door was never meant to open, it would be built as a wall. :smallwink:

That's Gonetor (formerly Gontor Hammerfell, Exarch of Stone), not Greg (aka HPoH, aka Durkula, aka not-Durkon) who has a rather strict view on the purpose of doors.

[Gift Jeraff]

Yet another reason "Greg" needs to be dropped. It's easy to see why someone might think it's a name for Gontor:
-both start with G
-no nickname really caught on for vampire Gontor
-it feels like a made up name for a minor character (see: Cole) and not the primary/secondary villain of a story arc
-Greg is assumed to be a Blackwing suggestion, and Blackwing is the pretty much only character to have significant interaction with vampire Gontor so it's understandable that the 2 scenes might be conflated by our memories

Just embrace Durkula. I was against Durkula when the name first popped up, but now I have seen the light (or would it be darkness?)?

[Kish]

Is this actually supposed to accomplish something? I hate the name you're now pushing for with the heat of a thousand suns, but I never devoted even one post to "stop calling him that, call him what I want him to be called instead"; I wonder if you actually think anyone's going to start calling him that because of these posts of yours.

[klarg1]

That's Gonetor (formerly Gontor Hammerfell, Exarch of Stone), not Greg (aka HPoH, aka Durkula, aka not-Durkon) who has a rather strict view on the purpose of doors.

True.

I sit corrected.

[Jay R]

"Some kinda giant wallflower."

Hmm. Is this another (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0963.html) example of Greg seeming to unconsciously drift into Durkon's accent?

And still getting it slightly wrong. Durkon says "... kind o' ...".

:durkon:: It's tha kind o' selflessness when tempted tha separates tha wise from tha foolish, I think. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0170.html)

[Gift Jeraff]

Is this actually supposed to accomplish something? I hate the name you're now pushing for with the heat of a thousand suns, but I never devoted even one post to "stop calling him that, call him what I want him to be called instead"; I wonder if you actually think anyone's going to start calling him that because of these posts of yours.

Settling on an efficient name improves the quality of discussion on this board by avoiding confusion and allowing for past topics to be easily searched. So yes, I do consider this an important issue to settle.

[Kish]

That answers a question, if alas not the one I asked. Have fun with your quixotic crusade, then.

[Gift Jeraff]

I will concede to Greg if and only if I see matching names for the other 3 vampires. Craig, Meg, and..?

[Jasdoif]

Settling on an efficient name improves the quality of discussion on this board by avoiding confusion and allowing for past topics to be easily searched.Exactly, HPoH is backwards-compatible with non-post-Godsmoot posts.

[Keltest]

I will concede to Greg if and only if I see matching names for the other 3 vampires. Craig, Meg, and..?

And Peg. Which is short for something long and embarrassing, I'm sure.

[Lord Torath]

So glad to see Durkon back. He was bruised, not broken.

If Greg's minions, and not even the named ones, are throwing out Greater Dispel Magic, that actually fills me with dread for how bitter a fight this is going to be. But that also got me thinking about thralls and the HD requirement. IIRC, a vampire controls up to twice his HD in thralls. Minimum caster level for GDM is 11, so I think one of those three vampires might not be Durkon's thrall. Maybe they're Exarch Hammerfell's?Do they need to be Thralls? If Hel gets to pick which spirits inhabit them, she can pick spirits loyal to herself, and then Nose-Fur-Atu has no need to maintain control over them.


The statement is a fallacy. A glass is never half-empty nor half-full, it is always totally full, unless an added qualifier is used. Even a hole is totally full, despite being conceptually abound emptiness.

A hole in the ground still is full of air, dust, particles, atoms, and leptons, it is merely the absence of dirt. Likewise a glass. An be half-full of ice and creme soda, but still is filled the rest of the way with air. There us a reason hole and whole sound the same, because technically they are the same.What if a glass of water was, all of a sudden, literally half empty? (https://what-if.xkcd.com/6/)

I apologize for nothing. It had to be done!


If she said that before sunset, sure. Hence my question of what time it was.It's still pretty light when Hel finishes scrying on the order (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1080.html). Her conversation with Thrymm didn't seem to take too long (only 23 panels), so my guess is it's still early afternoon... -ish.

[Shoelessgdowar]

I personally think that Durkoff is way better than Greg, Durkula, FHPoH, NSHPoH, LPoH, XHPoH, EHPoH, Nokrud, or any other name suggested so far. I would however accept FWLWFHaSNHETItFP(Future Whiny Loser Who Failed Hel and Should Never Have Even Tried In the First Place), despite how unwieldy and long it is, but that would drop the first F when he does fail.

------------------------------------



What if a glass of water was, all of a sudden, literally half empty? (https://what-if.xkcd.com/6/)

I apologize for nothing. It had to be done!
.

Still totally full, it is just half full with Vacuum... even Vacuum is something.

[dtilque]

Sweet, a perfect callback to HPoT giving Roy her stone.

Not actually a callback, but rather the High Priestess giving the instructions to Roy was a foreshadowing of sorts. It keeps the DxM-birds quiet.


Exactly, HPoH is backwards-compatible with non-post-Godsmoot posts.

In biology when naming taxons, the earliest name given gets precedence. Durkula (actually Count Durkula) was coined in the discussion thread when Durkula was created (post 4) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?274483-OOTS-878-The-Discussion-Thread). This isn't quite biology (more like anti-biology), but it has precedence. It's also backwards compatible even further back than HPoH.

[factotum]

It's still pretty light when Hel finishes scrying on the order (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1080.html). Her conversation with Thrymm didn't seem to take too long (only 23 panels), so my guess is it's still early afternoon... -ish.

It also doesn't seem to be particularly dark outside the door where the vampires are standing, and with no obvious source of light nearby I'm inclined to suspect it's still daylight there.

Mind you, that raises a question in my mind. Vampire clerics regain their spells at sunset, right? What happens if they're really far north during the summer, and the sun *doesn't* set? How does that work within RAW?

[Kish]

If Hel gets to pick which spirits inhabit them,
Big If.

Number of vampires shown to be obsessively loyal to Hel: 1, made from a mortal who was obsessively loyal to Thor.

[Chei]

It also doesn't seem to be particularly dark outside the door where the vampires are standing, and with no obvious source of light nearby I'm inclined to suspect it's still daylight there.

Mind you, that raises a question in my mind. Vampire clerics regain their spells at sunset, right? What happens if they're really far north during the summer, and the sun *doesn't* set? How does that work within RAW?

If the sun doesn't set, it also doesn't rise, so I'm guessing clerics stick to the usual time out of habit and the deity allows it. The bugbear village has a shaman who receives spells from the Dark One, presumably, given that they do worship him, though not as devoutly as goblins.

[Unoriginal]

Big If.

Number of vampires shown to be obsessively loyal to Hel: 1, made from a mortal who was obsessively loyal to Thor.

And made by a vampire obsessively loyal to Nergal.

[Kish]

It also doesn't seem to be particularly dark outside the door where the vampires are standing, and with no obvious source of light nearby I'm inclined to suspect it's still daylight there.

Mind you, that raises a question in my mind. Vampire clerics regain their spells at sunset, right? What happens if they're really far north during the summer, and the sun *doesn't* set? How does that work within RAW?
1) That'd be "clerics of Hel regain their spells at sunset."
2) RAW has no interest in time zones or orbits. It's entirely possible that the sun rises and sets at the same time everywhere on the OotS world.

[Lord Torath]

1) That'd be "clerics of Hel regain their spells at sunset."
2) RAW has no interest in time zones or orbits. It's entirely possible that the sun rises and sets at the same time everywhere on the OotS world.Well, the OotS world is a globe (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0672.html). So sunsets work more or less like they do on Earth, with time zones and such.

With no axial tilt, a properly elliptical orbit could account for the change in seasons.

Has anyone in-comic referenced solstices or equinoxes? I seem to call Haley talking about an early Solstice gift (panel 7 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0970.html)).

So seasons are apparently due to axial tilt instead of an elongated orbit, so OotS world does have differing lengths of day and night depending on season and latitude. It's quite probable that OotSworld gets 3-month-long arctic and antarctic days and nights, just like Earth does. During Winter and Summer, I would assume clerics get their spells renewed 6 hours before or after noon (depending on whether they normally regain spells at dawn or dusk).

[Jasdoif]

In biology when naming taxons, the earliest name given gets precedence. Durkula (actually Count Durkula) was coined in the discussion thread when Durkula was created (post 4) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?274483-OOTS-878-The-Discussion-Thread). This isn't quite biology (more like anti-biology), but it has precedence.So...are you trying to say there's a taxon at the individual creature level, or that all vampirized dwarves constitute a "Count Durkula" species or something? :smalltongue:


It's also backwards compatible even further back than HPoH.True....Then again, being able to easily exclude the posts where it was intentionally unclear that HPoH was a distinct entity from the living Durkon seems a useful option. Regardless, they both beat "Greg" :smalltongue:

[KorvinStarmast]

Settling on an efficient name improves the quality of discussion on this board by avoiding confusion and allowing for past topics to be easily searched. So yes, I do consider this an important issue to settle.
Durkula sounds good to me, and did when it was first tossed around.

True....Then again, being able to easily exclude the posts where it was intentionally unclear that HPoH was a distinct entity from the living Durkon seems a useful option. Regardless, they both beat "Greg" :smalltongue: And it has a semi valid taxonomy.

[dtilque]

Has anyone in-comic referenced solstices or equinoxes? I seem to call Haley talking about an early Solstice gift (panel 7 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0970.html)).

The Godsmoot happened on the Winter Solstice (panel 10) (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0987.html). And since the Dwarven Lands are way far north, sunset should be very early. But we don't know the axial tilt nor the exact latitude, so we can't say how early.

[dtilque]

So...are you trying to say there's a taxon at the individual creature level, or that all vampirized dwarves constitute a "Count Durkula" species or something? :smalltongue:

As I said, it's anti-biology. Who knows what the rules are.

[White Magic]

Omission Possible: Cruise as Durkon?
http://metrograph.com/uploads/films/unspecified-2-1462727223-726x388.jpg

[Jasdoif]

As I said, it's anti-biology. Who knows what the rules are.Hel, who knows if there are rules?

[Ruck]

Not to mention certain beers and other brews. Sauternes wines are a direct result of mold.

Q

Sauternes is from noble rot, right? Glenmorangie makes a Scotch that's finished in sauternes barrels.

[Peelee]

And Peg. Which is short for something long and embarrassing, I'm sure.

I've never heard a satisfactory answer for why Peg is short for Margaret.

[Kish]

Because it rhymes with Meg.

Same deal as ****, Bill, and Ted/Ned.

Also the forum censor is oversensitive.

[The MunchKING]

I've never heard a satisfactory answer for why Peg is short for Margaret.

The answer to pretty much any weird thing in English comes down to "took it from other languages" or "Cockney Rhyming Slang". I think this is the latter.

[ti'esar]

While I used to be opposed fiercely to "Durkula", I honestly can't remember why anymore. I prefer "Greg" now just for the absurdity factor, but I'm curious why it used to be such a big deal.

[georgie_leech]

Because it rhymes with Meg.

Same deal as ****, Bill, and Ted/Ned.

Also the forum censor is oversensitive.

Could be worse. I played a soccer mobile game a while back. The in game chat filter covered everything that included any thing resembling vulgar. For instance, "pass" :smallamused:

[Psyren]

Big If.

Number of vampires shown to be obsessively loyal to Hel: 1, made from a mortal who was obsessively loyal to Thor.

These aren't just vampires though, they're vampire clerics. So they have a lot of reason to toe the line.

Put another way, whatever varying loyalty the souls in her "soul bank" may have, the ones capable of being clerics are probably more loyal than average. And it seems they learn to be clerics before they are assigned to bodies, judging by the fact that Greg knew about the "Domain Agreement" without pulling it up as a memory from Durkon first.

[B. Dandelion]

Hel doesn't put souls from a soul bank into the new vampire's body, a spirit is "birthed" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0946.html) in her hall that she creates and shapes (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1007.html) to fit into the shell of the body it has possessed. Greg suggests that depending on the person the vampire stole their body from, the spirit might turn out differently and could possibly even reject Hel from the start.

[anonynos]

It's possible that the failed activation set off an alarm elsewhere and at least someone may be alerted to an intrusion. There may in fact be something in motion to trap any intruder automatically. At least, those are things I would consider when designing such a system.

Also, if it crumbled just by someone else touching it then if a priest drops it when sleeping and someone tries to help him <crunch> there goes the key. This on-use method lets them be moved by anyone and only comes in to play when they are actually used inappropriately.

Also, the doors likely normally have guards around them, so having the key fail at the door means it failing in front of guards... as opposed to some random back alley when you are looting the priest you just killed and no one is around to do anything about it. At least, it would work that way in non-vampire invasion situations.

[Peelee]

Could be worse. I played a soccer mobile game a while back. The in game chat filter covered everything that included any thing resembling vulgar. For instance, "pass" :smallamused:

Oh good lord, at least with clbuttle filters you can kind of make out what is being said, even if it's annoying as all get out.

[georgie_leech]

Oh good lord, at least with clbuttle filters you can kind of make out what is being said, even if it's annoying as all get out.

It was miserabpe in every respect. @'s, obvious typos, .'s in the middle of words, just about everything would bypass the filter. Really, the only thing it made inconvenient was discussing game mechanics :smallamused:

[Centaur]

Really, the only thing it made inconvenient was discussing game mechanics :smallamused:

You mean the mustard sword?

[drazen]

I will concede to Greg if and only if I see matching names for the other 3 vampires. Craig, Meg, and..?

Durkula = Greg
Female vamp = Meg
Exarch Hammerfell = Craig
Other vamp = Keg?

[goto124]

In the comic strip, I see:

- Gregula,
- Tall lady vampire with long hair and gloves
- Short lady vampire with short hair and no gloves
- White beard vampire

So who is who? I'm not exactly the best at keeping up.

[GreatWyrmGold]

I wanted to say something about Durkon's character development or door philosophy, but all the good points have been taken. So I'll just reply to half a dozen other people with random points of varying seriousness.



What Greg needs is a forumite rules lawyer to request memories on his behalf.
"Contact Rules Lawyer" would be a pretty potent spell. Forget "Contact Other Plane," you need rules lawyers to get the most out of your divinations!



Please, be good at your own language.
I would have assumed its native language would be Dwarven, not Common.



Again with the passive aggressive insults. :smallmad: Sakes alive, Durkula is starting to get on my nerves*.
* Understatement.
Which is a great way of showing how different he is from other antagonists like Xykon and even Tarquin. They at least have a pinch of style. And, failing that, at least they can be funny.
But Durkula is just one mass of pettiness and smugness. With a decent dose of self-righteousness on the side.
It is going to be so so delicious to see him get his comeuppance.
Nale's not around any more—we need someone to take up the mantle of overconfident schemer who you just want to punch right in his bearded face.



Or to put it another way: "You should've taken the whole book.The warnings come after the spells."
I never understood this. It's just begging for one of those situations you see in sitcoms and such where someone starts reading directions and doesn't explain some critical thing to watch out for until after another character's passed the point of no return. Warnings should go first, always.



If she said that before sunset, sure. Hence my question of what time it was.
...If she said it after sunset, wouldn't the priests have already had time to re-prepare spells?



Because it rhymes with Meg.
Same deal as ****, Bill, and Ted/Ned.
Also the forum censor is oversensitive.
That's seriously it? Geez, what were the English drinking when they came up with that idea?


And I have something to say about names!
While I've been around the forums long enough to know who people mean when they talk about Greg, most casual readers of the comic wouldn't. There's no clear connection between "Greg" and "vampire Durkon," either, making such a logical leap almost impossible. "Durkula," on the other hand, is transparently a portmanteau of Durkon and Dracula, by far the most famous vampire. Even a novice forumite could guess who Durkula is the first time they see the term. For that reason alone, I prefer Durkula. Though HPoH also works...even if it's technically not true anymore. (And it should be noted that acronyms are always confusing to those not in the know.)

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I never understood this. It's just begging for one of those situations you see in sitcoms and such where someone starts reading directions and doesn't explain some critical thing to watch out for until after another character's passed the point of no return. Warnings should go first, always.
Maybe you should tell that to the pharmaceutical standards board? Or every medical book, ever? They always describe the medicine/procedure/treatment first, and then they go on to list the dangers/side effects after. Which makes sense, because it is really hard to explain why a specific step will be dangerous, if you haven't first described said step. You'd lack context to understand, predict, prevent, ameliorate and/or avoid the danger.


If she said it after sunset, wouldn't the priests have already had time to re-prepare spells?
Indeed, which means they might not have prepared spells to deal with a high-level party; instead concentrating more on spells to change the minds of the representatives, and thus giving the OotS a bit of an advantage. It's a minor difference, though, since spell selection is plot-based anyway. We can be sure that they will have all their spells slots prepared, regardless (unlike during the moot, when most of Greg's posse were completely out).

Grey Wolf

[Unoriginal]

Anyone has noticed how the mental version of Greg is still wearing Durkon's armor, even if he changed to a robe in the physical world?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Anyone has noticed how the mental version of Greg is still wearing Durkon's armor, even if he changed to a robe in the physical world?

Yes (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=22227405&postcount=54)

Grey Wolf

[goto124]

While I've been around the forums long enough to know who people mean when they talk about Greg, most casual readers of the comic wouldn't.

But then I wouldn't get to talk to the newbies and show off my OotS forum knowledge!


Quoting because it fell off the page:


In the comic strip, I see:

- Gregula,
- Tall lady vampire with long hair and gloves
- Short lady vampire with short hair and no gloves
- White beard vampire

So who is who? I'm not exactly the best at keeping up.

[drazen]

In the comic strip, I see:

- Gregula,
- Tall lady vampire with long hair and gloves
- Short lady vampire with short hair and no gloves
- White beard vampire

So who is who? I'm not exactly the best at keeping up.

For some reason I thought the short unbearded one was a guy. It's hard to tell with all the armor and vampirism. Had to go back to #994 to see who it was.

So in that case, let's make the short one Meg (for "Family Guy's" Meg), and let the tall one be Peg (for "Married With Children's" Peg).

The Exarch has the beard. He's Craig.

[SilverCacaobean]

And I have something to say about names!
While I've been around the forums long enough to know who people mean when they talk about Greg, most casual readers of the comic wouldn't. There's no clear connection between "Greg" and "vampire Durkon," either, making such a logical leap almost impossible. "Durkula," on the other hand, is transparently a portmanteau of Durkon and Dracula, by far the most famous vampire. Even a novice forumite could guess who Durkula is the first time they see the term. For that reason alone, I prefer Durkula. Though HPoH also works...even if it's technically not true anymore. (And it should be noted that acronyms are always confusing to those not in the know.)

You don't have to be on the forums to know who Greg is. It appeared in comic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1030.html) first. I actually think that the complete and utter lack of connection between 'Greg' and 'Vampire Durkon' can only be an advantage. If someone who doesn't even know that Durkon becomes a vampire accidentally reads something about Greg from a thread about a part of the story they've not reached yet, they'll have absolutely no clue who that is and they'll have less of a chance to figure out that Durkon turns undead. Admittedly that's an unlikely scenario and a negligible advantage...

[GreatWyrmGold]

You don't have to be on the forums to know who Greg is. It appeared in comic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1030.html) first. I actually think that the complete and utter lack of connection between 'Greg' and 'Vampire Durkon' can only be an advantage. If someone who doesn't even know that Durkon becomes a vampire accidentally reads something about Greg from a thread about a part of the story they've not reached yet, they'll have absolutely no clue who that is and they'll have less of a chance to figure out that Durkon turns undead. Admittedly that's an unlikely scenario and a negligible advantage...
1. I'm 90% sure that the "Greg" name showed up on the forum before it showed up in the comic. Regardless, what makes you think anyone would treat that as something more than a throwaway gag, something worth remembering?
2. I'm not convinced that "It's not a spoiler!" is going to help. First, I personally think that if someone browsing a forum for a given work of fiction comes across spoilers from that work of fiction, either the poster didn't properly spoiler-tag their post or the browser deserves the spoiler. Second, if someone went "Who's Greg?" (which they would), most forumites' answer would be "That's what some people call the vampiric spirit inhabiting Durkon's corpse right now," not "How far have you read?" Besides, thread titles alone are going to spoil more than the name Count Durkula ever will.
3. By that logic, shouldn't we give every character an indecipherable codename, or at least every character with a meaningful spoiler attached to them?

[Shining Wrath]

You don't have to be on the forums to know who Greg is. It appeared in comic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1030.html) first. I actually think that the complete and utter lack of connection between 'Greg' and 'Vampire Durkon' can only be an advantage. If someone who doesn't even know that Durkon becomes a vampire accidentally reads something about Greg from a thread about a part of the story they've not reached yet, they'll have absolutely no clue who that is and they'll have less of a chance to figure out that Durkon turns undead. Admittedly that's an unlikely scenario and a negligible advantage...

A person new to the forums is likely also new to the comic, so let's not assume they've read back 55 strips - or that if they have, they remember one joke out of a dozen in that strip. I've been using "Greg", but I'm coming around to "Durkula" as being clearer to new or infrequent forum readers. It's not worth correcting anyone else over, but I want to communicate clearly.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

1. I'm 90% sure that the "Greg" name showed up on the forum before it showed up in the comic.
[citation needed]. Not that it matters much. Greg is in the comic, regardless of where Rich got the idea from.


Regardless, what makes you think anyone would treat that as something more than a throwaway gag, something worth remembering?
Reality.



Seriously, it is getting annoying at this point this pushing for us to use your preferred name for Greg. Yes, we get it that you prefer "Durkula". I don't. I think it is too similar to Durkon, and that whenever there is a sentence talking about both, e.g. in how they differ or are similar or their little private war, it makes it unnecessarily hard to track which one is which, so I'd rather have clear contrast to some punish portmanteau.

I also do not have a problem pointing anyone that asks who Greg is to the correct comic (as I have done at least twice in this thread already) and explain that it is the name I prefer to use, neatly resolving the "won't you think of the newbies*?!" issue. I am not forcing you to use it. Would it kill you to extend the same courtesy to me?

Grey Wolf

*Also, I think most new forumnites likely can figure out who Greg is from context; they may want to know why "Greg", but can likely still get the gist of a post mentioning him.

[Rogar Demonblud]

That's seriously it? Geez, what were the English drinking when they came up with that idea?

It's more a question of how much. :smallwink:

[SilverCacaobean]

1. I'm 90% sure that the "Greg" name showed up on the forum before it showed up in the comic. Regardless, what makes you think anyone would treat that as something more than a throwaway gag, something worth remembering?
2. I'm not convinced that "It's not a spoiler!" is going to help. First, I personally think that if someone browsing a forum for a given work of fiction comes across spoilers from that work of fiction, either the poster didn't properly spoiler-tag their post or the browser deserves the spoiler. Second, if someone went "Who's Greg?" (which they would), most forumites' answer would be "That's what some people call the vampiric spirit inhabiting Durkon's corpse right now," not "How far have you read?" Besides, thread titles alone are going to spoil more than the name Count Durkula ever will.
3. By that logic, shouldn't we give every character an indecipherable codename, or at least every character with a meaningful spoiler attached to them?

I'm not sure it showed up here first, but it doesn't really matter. Yeah, I admitted that the 'advantage' of 'Greg' is negligible at best however giving every character an indecipherable name isn't really the same logic. The logic is that if we have both a spoilery and spoilerless name('Durkula' and 'Greg' having both appeared only once in comic, both probably won't appear again), all other things being the same we should choose the latter. As for it being a throwaway gag, I'm not really on the forum all that much and honestly I have no idea if 'Greg' originated here, (I'm not sure if I had even joined yet when it appeared in comic) but 'Greg' stood out way too much and I couldn't help but remember it.

[Jasdoif]

If she said it after sunset, wouldn't the priests have already had time to re-prepare spells?Yes. And if they didn't prepare spells to bypass the door because they expected to get in without much difficulty, they're not going to have a chance to prepare different spells until the next sunset...and the Order is supposed to arrive before midnight.

[mr-mercer]

I for one am going to keep calling him Greg, because that name is more fun (though I do appreciate the fact that HPoH can be internally pronounced Hippo).

[GreatWyrmGold]

I think it is too similar to Durkon, and that whenever there is a sentence talking about both, e.g. in how they differ or are similar or their little private war, it makes it unnecessarily hard to track which one is which, so I'd rather have clear contrast to some punish portmanteau.
...I'm not sure I follow your logic. If Trump was debating some guy called Truman, would you have a hard time following the transcript?


I also do not have a problem pointing anyone that asks who Greg is to the correct comic (as I have done at least twice in this thread already) and explain that it is the name I prefer to use, neatly resolving the "won't you think of the newbies*?!" issue.
Um...isn't something that doesn't require newbies to ask a question and be directed to that comic better?


I am not forcing you to use it. Would it kill you to extend the same courtesy to me?
Have I been forcing you to use it? No. I've been pointing out why I think it's a better name. If you think that's the same thing, then my arguments must have been pretty dang convincing. (Also, if that's the same thing, you have been forcing me to use it.)





Alright, let's look at your argument.
1. "Greg" and "Durkula" have equal support, and therefore should be treated the same.
No. "Greg" shows up in the corner of one panel in one comic. Durkula does as well, but also happens to be a name which clearly conveys who he is even to someone with no idea what we're talking about.
2. There's a pre-existing name, so making up new names isn't the same logic.
Two counter-points. First, I'm willing to bet five gold that I could dig up a comic to "explain" an indecipherable nickname for any spoiler-character you care to name. Second, it's based on the same logic. "Having a less-clear codename is good because it means we can prevent people from accidentally stumbling on spoilers."

P.S. It's considered basic etiquette to at least acknowledge the arguments the other person made. You pointed out that point 1 is irrelevant (which I agree, but so was the point it was responding to), and responded properly to point 3, but point 2 was basically ignored. Unless you count "it's negligible" as a response, but isn't that basically just agreeing with my argument that your point is entirely pointless?


[QUOTE=mr-mercer;22234349]I for one am going to keep calling him Greg, because that name is more fun (though I do appreciate the fact that HPoH can be internally pronounced Hippo).
Can't argue with that logic. It's not the kind of logic I'd use, but I see where it's coming from and agree with the conclusions it made.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

...I'm not sure I follow your logic. If Trump was debating some guy called Truman, would you have a hard time following the transcript?

That's not the same case at all. If Trump was debating with someone whose name is unknown, and I chose to call that person Greg while you chose to call him Trumpon, I think my transcript would be clearer that yours, yes.


Um...isn't something that doesn't require newbies to ask a question and be directed to that comic better?
Better than clear writing? No.

GW

[goodpeople25]

At the very least I think it would give a better argument for a typo or similar mistake if somebody ran the wrong headline or something compared to the opponent being named Martha or Dewey or Xykon or other names like that.

[Kantaki]

Does it matter how we call [insert favourite nickname for the future pile of ash there]?
As long as it is somewhat clear who we are talking about I mean.

[GreatWyrmGold]

That's not the same case at all. If Trump was debating with someone whose name is unknown, and I chose to call that person Greg while you chose to call him Trumpon, I think my transcript would be clearer that yours, yes.

Better than clear writing? No.
Okay, um...how does "Durkula" look enough like "Durkon" that you could reasonable expect one to be mistaken for the other, or even a typo of the other? And isn't not needing to be directed to a specific comic to understand who you're talking about also an example of clearing up ambiguity in writing?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Okay, um...how does "Durkula" look enough like "Durkon" that you could reasonable expect one to be mistaken for the other, or even a typo of the other?
Because they share more than half their letters, which happen to be the starting letters. Not to mention that I have had trouble following a line of reasoning that involved multiple mentions of both Durkon and "Durkula" in quick succession. Therefore, there is no doubt in my mind that it is indeed not the clearest way to refer to Greg.


And isn't not needing to be directed to a specific comic to understand who you're talking about also an example of clearing up ambiguity in writing?
No. That has nothing to do with ambiguity.

For someone who, supposedly, only "pointing out why [you] think it's a better name" you sure cannot let this topic go. With that in mind, I'm sorry, but I will not be discussing this matter with you further. I have made my position quite clear. Further repetition of my position seems pointless.

Grey Wolf

[Kish]

*clears throat*

There is a certain name some people call Vampire Durkon which I will never, ever call him. If you actually have "getting everyone to call him by the same name" as a goal you're trying to achieve, pick something other than that name--Greg, Bob, Phyrnglsnx, the High Priest of Hel--or it will be futile as long as I'm one of the people you're including in "everyone." Repeated efforts to convince me to type that name will get you ignored. I am not attempting to convince anyone else to call him or not call him anything, and consider all such efforts doomed in any event.

That is all.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Because they share more than half their letters, which happen to be the starting letters. Not to mention that I have had trouble following a line of reasoning that involved multiple mentions of both Durkon and "Durkula" in quick succession. Therefore, there is no doubt in my mind that it is indeed not the clearest way to refer to Greg.
I know I'm not you and can't know what you're thinking, but I find this improbable. I mean, I can see it making it harder to skim a sentence or transcript and understand what's going on, but that seems more like a problem with the level of engagement than with the names.


No. That has nothing to do with ambiguity.
So..."what character 'Greg' refers to" has nothing to do with ambiguity?

For someone who, supposedly, only "pointing out why [you] think it's a better name" you sure cannot let this topic go.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, it's one of my flaws. Whenever someone rebuts one of my points, I feel the need to respond, especially if I feel their rebuttal is flawed. Otherwise, it implies that I think that rebuttal is valid and my point has flaws that it doesn't. I've been trying to get better at backing out of arguments; as you can see, there's still work to do there.
(This goes for your post, too, Kish.)

[Kish]

For my part, I'm primarily thinking of Gift Jeraff. I don't know offhand if anyone else has explicitly said their goal is to get everyone using you-know-what.

Yes, person who is about to suggest calling Greg You-Know-What, I did in fact anticipate you.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I know I'm not you and can't know what you're thinking, but I find this improbable.
And now you've progressed to calling me a liar. Yeah, I'm upgrading you to "not talking to you on any topic".


Whenever someone rebuts one of my points,

Which I have not done. You literally asked me to explain my logic, and then proceeded to tell me what I should think instead. Oh, and then called me a liar when you refused to accept that I could misread "Durkula" as "Durkon".

Grey Wolf

[Chei]

I've been trying to get better at backing out of arguments; as you can see, there's still work to do there.

I really sympathize with you. That habit makes for a hard life online.

What's interesting to me, though this is from last thread, is that Hel herself addressed Durkula as 'vampire'. It seems like a vampire spirit really is nameless, and Durkula only addressed himself as Durkon Thundershield for convenience at the moot. I wonder how long vampires typically take to choose a name, or have one bestowed upon them. Maybe once they've got all the host's memories?

The vampire spirit looks at Durkon going into his eternal slumber and thinks "Yeah, the name was only about half bad. Needs some work at the end. Durk...ula?"

[goto124]

and Durkula only addressed himself as Durkon Thundershield for convenience at the moot.

At the moot, Isn't Gregula Durkula pretending to be Durkon? The only person who would have benefit in giving him a name would be Hel, and we already saw how she addresses him.

[Killer Angel]

I knew I should check GitP more frequently.

Take that, Durkula!

[Chei]

At the moot, Isn't Gregula Durkula pretending to be Durkon? The only person who would have benefit in giving him a name would be Hel, and we already saw how she addresses him.

Yes. The charade is for Roy's benefit, which I think is basically a convenience for Durkula by that point, given that he completed his objective (get to the moot and vote). Hel just calls him her servant, high priest, or vampire, which all scream 'tool' rather than 'person' to me. Which is interesting, since she's the patron of the undead. Still a goddess, I suppose.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Yes. The charade is for Roy's benefit, which I think is basically a convenience for Durkula by that point, given that he completed his objective (get to the moot and vote). Hel just calls him her servant, high priest, or vampire, which all scream 'tool' rather than 'person' to me. Which is interesting, since she's the patron of the undead. Still a goddess, I suppose.

To quote (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0830.html) Redcloak:


[T]hey are tools. Dangerous, powerful tools. From the lowliest zombie to Xykon himself, the undead are just complex weapons that we make and aim at other people. All that differs is how direct or subtle our control of them is.

If Hel had a better alternative than hoping for a cleric to be made into a vampire willing to serve her, she would have used it by now. To her, Greg is a means to an end. As little as she thinks of souled individuals*, I suspect they'd still rank higher than a dark spirit in a meat bag.

Grey Wolf

*An attitude, I should add, that is hardly exclusive to Hel. Most of the Northern Pantheon clearly care little for the mortals.

[Ruck]

And I have something to say about names!
While I've been around the forums long enough to know who people mean when they talk about Greg, most casual readers of the comic wouldn't. There's no clear connection between "Greg" and "vampire Durkon," either, making such a logical leap almost impossible. "Durkula," on the other hand, is transparently a portmanteau of Durkon and Dracula, by far the most famous vampire. Even a novice forumite could guess who Durkula is the first time they see the term. For that reason alone, I prefer Durkula. Though HPoH also works...even if it's technically not true anymore. (And it should be noted that acronyms are always confusing to those not in the know.)

I pretty much agree with this. I find "Greg" funny, but it's not the best choice for ease of communication, as demonstrated by the number of people who have had to ask who "Greg" is.

[Chei]

To quote Redcloak:

Redcloak might have been much more sane on the status of the undead than Tsukiko, but that doesn't make him 100% right. I never took him at his word when he called Xykon a complex weapon. I don't think anyone who read SoD could. A vampire spirit may not have a genuine soul the way Xykon still does, but I would extend to them the same considerations in regards to personhood. I think the perception of vampires in the comics has been a little colored by the fact that they have all been, well, clerics.



If Hel had a better alternative than hoping for a cleric to be made into a vampire willing to serve her, she would have used it by now. To her, Greg is a means to an end. As little as she thinks of souled individuals*, I suspect they'd still rank higher than a dark spirit in a meat bag.

Hel treating Durkula as a tool instead of a servant will probably bite her, but I strangely would prefer to see her learn to treat him as a person, given how long it's been since she had a cleric at all. The way she treats Durkula now reminds me of early-OOTS Thor, who literally at one point told a deva "Tell me if the dwarf lives or dies."

There have been signs that she treats him as a person alongside the signs that she treats him as a tool, rare as they are. She understood pretty quickly that the vampire may be a bit fixated on Roy, and noted that he was carrying his weight, comparing him favorably to a demigod. I think Hel treating everyone badly means we can't read too much into particular instances of treating someone badly, or something. I dunno where I was going with that.

[Kish]

For my part, I think the logical place to take it is: all the gods are bastard-coated bastards with bastard filling, but Hel has extra bastard.

I don't really expect much more from it than that.

[Peelee]

I pretty much agree with this. I find "Greg" funny, but it's not the best choice for ease of communication, as demonstrated by the number of people who have had to ask who "Greg" is.

I'm the exact opposite; I didn't think it was all that funny to start with, but I think it's an excellent choice for communication, both due to its actual use as a suggestion in-comic (which can be easily pointed out for anyone confused), and the most common name the forumites use.

[8BitNinja]

For my part, I think the logical place to take it is: all the gods are bastard-coated bastards with bastard filling, but Hel has extra bastard.

I don't really expect much more from it than that.

No, you're thinking of demigods.

Wait, we aren't talking about the literal?

[Chei]

I'm the exact opposite; I didn't think it was all that funny to start with, but I think it's an excellent choice for communication, both due to its actual use as a suggestion in-comic (which can be easily pointed out for anyone confused), and the most common name the forumites use.

It feels like "due to its actual use as a suggestion in-comic" is not really a compelling point given that 1) it shares that panel with a dozen other suggestions and 2) it's clearly part of a joke. Hell, people have tried using *Durkon, including myself. If I were to give a reason myself, it would be because Greg is easiest to type, and people are using it because it's easy to type. Widespread use leads to legitimacy, not the other way around.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

I feel like we're rapidly approaching the xkcd standards (https://www.xkcd.com/927/) problem. I'd say that I'm not a huge fan of Greg myself, because I don't think it's a name that clearly communicates who it is referring to, and relies a little too much on a strong knowledge of a single strip that many might not remember back to right away. However... that's more than a little hypocritical coming from someone who loves using the name "Vector Legion". Granted, I still think that it's an awful name, but that's no reason for me to insist on using my standard. :smalltongue:

[yldenfrei]

Isn't the question "Who's Greg?" the entire point of the name joke? I feel like people complaining that the name is obfuscating are missing the point entirely. "Greg" users fully expect new members to ask the question, and to be confounded thusly.

If you keep denying Greg as a valid name for the vampire spirit and continue to complain of the name's absurdity/uselessness, congratulations:you are the reason why calling it Greg will never get old. :smallamused:

[Peelee]

It feels like "due to its actual use as a suggestion in-comic" is not really a compelling point given that 1) it shares that panel with a dozen other suggestions and 2) it's clearly part of a joke. Hell, people have tried using *Durkon, including myself. If I were to give a reason myself, it would be because Greg is easiest to type, and people are using it because it's easy to type. Widespread use leads to legitimacy, not the other way around.
Well, yeah. I'd be saying the same thing if any of the other suggestions had become the most commonly used on the forum. Regardless of which of the options got big, they all could be backed by being shown in-comic, joke or no. Every name not introduced in-comic is pulled out of someone's butt, and something something fine distinction between something I made up and something someone else made up is still a distinction.

The most commonly used thing holds much more weight, I agree, but I rarely have my points in any meaningful order - usually just whichever ones I thought of first, or whatever flows better (less common, that one).

I feel like we're rapidly approaching the xkcd standards (https://www.xkcd.com/927/) problem. I'd say that I'm not a huge fan of Greg myself,
[snip]
It's an awful name, but that's no reason for me to insist on using my standard. :smalltongue:
I feel the same way; don't like the name, but it's the clearly the majority-used one, and confusion is minimal and easily fixed. That said, I have no compunction against using a different name, so long as it's clear who I'm referring to (for instance, I can't use "the vampire" anymore due to multiple vampires now being in play). Don't much care about different standards if they still work well together.

Isn't the question "Who's Greg?" the entire point of the name joke?
No?

I feel like people complaining that the name is obfuscating are missing the point entirely. "Greg" users fully expect new members to ask the question, and to be confounded thusly.

As stated, not a user of it, but I doubt those that do are doing it to troll new people.

[yldenfrei]

No?
I take it you're not a Troper, then? (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SpecialPersonNormalName)

[Peelee]

I take it you're not a Troper, then? (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SpecialPersonNormalName)

No, yet still somehow more of one than you. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ArsonMurderAndJaywalking)

That's clearly the case for the joke in the strip. As for in the forums, again, I choose to believe nobody is a big enough jerk to deliberately troll newbies.

[danielxcutter]

Aren't both of those tropes right?

[yldenfrei]

No, yet still somehow more of one than you. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ArsonMurderAndJaywalking)

That's clearly the case for the joke in the strip. As for in the forums, again, I choose to believe nobody is a big enough jerk to deliberately troll newbies.
That may be the case of its appearance in comic, but not much so with the reason why people choose it over others. As I've cited: Special Person, Normal Name. The idea of a vampire named something so mundane as "Greg" is amusing, so we use it (since it's as good a name as any).

[Chei]

Aren't both of those tropes right?

Kind of. Here (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TomTheDarkLord) is, I think, the more specific version of what yldenfrei was going for, and here (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheLastOfTheseIsNotLikeTheOthers) is closer to the actual joke than Peelee's.

Also not a troper (is it uncool to admit you've been to the site, or what?).

[Peelee]

That may be the case of its appearance in comic, but not much so with the reason why people choose it over others. As I've cited: Special Person, Normal Name. The idea of a vampire named something so mundane as "Greg" is amusing, so we use it (since it's as good a name as any).
That would hold more weight if you hadn't argued that people use it specifically to troll people.

Kind of. Here (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TomTheDarkLord) is, I think, the more specific version of what yldenfrei was going for, and here (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheLastOfTheseIsNotLikeTheOthers) is closer to the actual joke than Peelee's.

Also not a troper (is it uncool to admit you've been to the site, or what?).
Yeah, that does seem like a better one than what I linked. Which makes sense, since I'm not familiar with most of them.

Also, it's more of an, "I did it before it was cool, and still do it after it was cool. I'm pretty sure I'm at the stage in life where everything I do is lame anyway, so what do I care?"

[Chei]

The even more specific case, Odd Name Out, was actually right there on the page I linked. So much for my nonexistent cred.

[F.Harr]

Heh heh heh heh!

The wit was great this time around.

[martianmister]

I'm the exact opposite; I didn't think it was all that funny to start with, but I think it's an excellent choice for communication, both due to its actual use as a suggestion in-comic (which can be easily pointed out for anyone confused), and the most common name the forumites use.

"Durkula" and "HPoH" is much more common.

[theNater]

I really sympathize with you. That habit makes for a hard life online.

What's interesting to me, though this is from last thread, is that Hel herself addressed Durkula as 'vampire'. It seems like a vampire spirit really is nameless, and Durkula only addressed himself as Durkon Thundershield for convenience at the moot. I wonder how long vampires typically take to choose a name, or have one bestowed upon them. Maybe once they've got all the host's memories?
At that point, they have a lifetime's worth of memories of being called by the host's name. With that fact in play, it would not be surprising for them to think of the host's name as their own.

[Kardwill]

Hel treating Durkula as a tool instead of a servant will probably bite her, but I strangely would prefer to see her learn to treat him as a person, given how long it's been since she had a cleric at all. The way she treats Durkula now reminds me of early-OOTS Thor, who literally at one point told a deva "Tell me if the dwarf lives or dies."

There have been signs that she treats him as a person alongside the signs that she treats him as a tool, rare as they are. She understood pretty quickly that the vampire may be a bit fixated on Roy, and noted that he was carrying his weight, comparing him favorably to a demigod. I think Hel treating everyone badly means we can't read too much into particular instances of treating someone badly, or something. I dunno where I was going with that.

We've seen her go all "I don't have to expend energy anymore to supprot my clerics? Awasome!", so I don't see her getting to attached to her undead tools. Her most prominent "quality", beside her pettiness, is her greed.

I mean, souled individuals like the dwarves she kills are a bundle of energy headed her way. She despises them, but she wants them, needs them anyway. They are her food, her power, her income.
Undead spirit clerics? They are a bundle of energy she took from her domain and sent back to the world. And they keep draining her as they use their clerical powers, too. They are an expense.
Greg is an investment for her, sure, since he will bring her a very healthy benefit at the end. But he's still in the wrong column in the accounting book : A tool that cost her some of her precious energy to create. And a short lived one, at that (since the end of the world is near).

So no, I don't think she will get warm and fuzzy to him, especially with the way she is treating her other allies. She's not Tsukiko, and Greg is not her "child".

[hroþila]

At that point, they have a lifetime's worth of memories of being called by the host's name. With that fact in play, it would not be surprising for them to think of the host's name as their own.
Malack's dialogue strongly suggests that, after centuries of rummaging memories and what not, the line between the vampire spirit and the mortal soul blurs, in terms of personal identity. Malack did change his name, but spoke as if the shaman's lifetime was part of his own story, in ways that IMO can't simply be explained away with "The Giant had to keep his true nature a secret for the end book reveal".

[Keltest]

"Durkula" and "HPoH" is much more common.

I don't think ive seen anyone use HPoH since the godsmoot however many months ago on account of it no longer being accurate.

[Curupira]

Malack's dialogue strongly suggests that, after centuries of rummaging memories and what not, the line between the vampire spirit and the mortal soul blurs, in terms of personal identity. Malack did change his name, but spoke as if the shaman's lifetime was part of his own story, in ways that IMO can't simply be explained away with "The Giant had to keep his true nature a secret for the end book reveal".

Maybe not. Malack's line "Bringing me back to life is just a complicated way of annihilating the person I am today (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0874.html)" (panel #3) also can be read as that Vampire Malack is not the same as Living Malack. The phrase is perfectly compatible with the now accepted explanation that the vampire soul absorbs the memories of the original soul and leave it dormant. It wasn't also the last time that a vampire does not explain the full nature of his undeath and lets other people think that it still has the same soul of the original living being. This obfuscation worked for Durkula for a time when he fought Roy, so he wound't be attacked as fiercely as when Roy realized that Durkula != Durkon, so Malack could be playing the exact same game.

Also I think the Giant DID explain some time ago in the Forums that he indeed was deliberately ambiguous with some of Malack's lines so the reveal wasn't prematurely spoiled. Sorry I couldn't find the current Giant Index to search for that quote.

[hroþila]

Maybe not. Malack's line "Bringing me back to life is just a complicated way of annihilating the person I am today (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0874.html)" (panel #3) also can be read as that Vampire Malack is not the same as Living Malack. The phrase is perfectly compatible with the now accepted explanation that the vampire soul absorbs the memories of the original soul and leave it dormant. It wasn't also the last time that a vampire does not explain the full nature of his undeath and lets other people think that it still has the same soul of the original living being. This obfuscation worked for Durkula for a time when he fought Roy, so he wound't be attacked as fiercely as when Roy realized that Durkula != Durkon, so Malack could be playing the exact same game.

Also I think the Giant DID explain some time ago in the Forums that he indeed was deliberately ambiguous with some of Malack's lines so the reveal wasn't prematurely spoiled. Sorry I couldn't find the current Giant Index to search for that quote.
Yes, I'm aware of the quote you're thinking of and it's actually what I was also referring to. Indeed, the quote "Bringing me back to life is just a complicated way of annihilating the person I am today" was compatible with all theories before the truth of how vampires work was revealed, but that's only one quote among many. For example, in 878 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0878.html) Malack talks about his past life:

It is not the parent-child relationship I long for these days—it is that of the colleauge. No—the sibling. I had seven brothers once, you know. In that dim other life so long past. I remember the taste of their blood far more vividly than any fraternal bond, though. How strange that I should seek it out once more.
In my opinion, that only makes sense if, after two centuries of reliving the shaman's memories, Malack had absorbed them into his own persona, blurring the lines between host and vampire. That might be part of what's going on 963 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0963.html), when Vamp Durkon says somethin': everything's rubbing off. And if Vamp Durkon had 200 years, like Malack had, I believe he would end up identifying with Durkon completely.

After all, how important are our memories to determine who we perceive ourselves to be?

[Shoelessgdowar]

That may be the case of its appearance in comic, but not much so with the reason why people choose it over others. As I've cited: Special Person, Normal Name. The idea of a vampire named something so mundane as "Greg" is amusing, so we use it (since it's as good a name as any).

Greg is a Brady, Greg is a guy from accounting, Greg is NOT a good choice for the Vampire in Durkon's body. There is a reason 15 better choices were given in the comic first (all of which appeared in the Forums), all of which are better, ergo, Greg is not AS GOOD A NAME AS ANY, as there are more than a dozen better ones given in the comic and some not given. If there were just one better one, like Durkoff (it sounds like something else, is appropriately insulting to the Vampire, references the fact that Durkon has been killed Off but is still part of the whole, alludes to the inversion of the allegiances by turning an On to an Off, it is immensely superior to Greg), then Greg would not be as good a name as any, but the fact that it isn't even in the first 10 suggestions means it is far from as good a name as any.

Your amusement at its trolling use is not a decent enough point in its favor to outweigh its crushing inadequacy for any other reason.


"Durkula" and "HPoH" is much more common.

True, but as Keltest pointed out, HPoH (or Hippo) lost its validity when the title, role, and mantle were passed to the next guy in line (He is Greg, High Priest of Hel, as his ascension reason fits the level of silliness of choosing a name like Greg... So he is now Greg, and any further use of Greg will be confusing, as Greg is the Current High Priest of Hel, and I propose all who are against calling Durkoff by a pointless name like Greg, show our unity in countering the misuse of that name by using it for the Current HPoH), Greg, the Vampire who was next nearest or in line or whatever the silly teason Greg was made HPoH after Durkoff relinquished the position.


I don't think ive seen anyone use HPoH since the godsmoot however many months ago on account of it no longer being accurate.

True, but that is only because Greg, the NEW High Priest of Hel is now the HPoH (Hippo) for short. Until Durkoff made Greg HPoH, Durkoff was usually called HPoH.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Greg is a Brady, Greg is a guy from accounting, Greg is NOT a good choice for the Vampire in Durkon's body. There is a reason 15 better choices were given in the comic first (all of which appeared in the Forums), all of which are better, ergo, Greg is not AS GOOD A NAME AS ANY, as there are more than a dozen better ones given in the comic and some not given.

I was unaware that there was a universally agreed upon scale upon which to judge given names. Please link me to the peer-review and presumably UN resolution that established the rules by which one should judge names, so I may verify that indeed "Greg" is not as good as "Durkoff".

GW

[goodpeople25]

To be honest I'm somewhat let down with myself that I got caught up in the moment in regard to not using HPoH after #1017. Not saying it should still or shouldn't have stopped being used though, just that to me I think it was a near instant turn off at the time when now I believe I should of put more thought into it and that it being former as a standalone reason dosen't work for me anymore.

[Keltest]

Greg is a Brady, Greg is a guy from accounting, Greg is NOT a good choice for the Vampire in Durkon's body. There is a reason 15 better choices were given in the comic first (all of which appeared in the Forums), all of which are better, ergo, Greg is not AS GOOD A NAME AS ANY, as there are more than a dozen better ones given in the comic and some not given. If there were just one better one, like Durkoff (it sounds like something else, is appropriately insulting to the Vampire, references the fact that Durkon has been killed Off but is still part of the whole, alludes to the inversion of the allegiances by turning an On to an Off, it is immensely superior to Greg), then Greg would not be as good a name as any, but the fact that it isn't even in the first 10 suggestions means it is far from as good a name as any.

Your amusement at its trolling use is not a decent enough point in its favor to outweigh its crushing inadequacy for any other reason.



True, but as Keltest pointed out, HPoH (or Hippo) lost its validity when the title, role, and mantle were passed to the next guy in line (He is Greg, High Priest of Hel, as his ascension reason fits the level of silliness of choosing a name like Greg... So he is now Greg, and any further use of Greg will be confusing, as Greg is the Current High Priest of Hel, and I propose all who are against calling Durkoff by a pointless name like Greg, show our unity in countering the misuse of that name by using it for the Current HPoH), Greg, the Vampire who was next nearest or in line or whatever the silly teason Greg was made HPoH after Durkoff relinquished the position.



True, but that is only because Greg, the NEW High Priest of Hel is now the HPoH (Hippo) for short. Until Durkoff made Greg HPoH, Durkoff was usually called HPoH.

You do realize the acting High Priest of Hel is a she, right?

[Quibblicious]

Sauternes is from noble rot, right? Glenmorangie makes a Scotch that's finished in sauternes barrels.

I believe so..


I was unaware that there was a universally agreed upon scale upon which to judge given names. Please link me to the peer-review and presumably UN resolution that established the rules by which one should judge names, so I may verify that indeed "Greg" is not as good as "Durkoff".

I believe it's an ISO standard, an extension and adaptation of the ANSI Z80 Naming Conventions Standard that was defined by the TV Tropes Standards Act of 1978.

Although I could be wrong :smallbiggrin:

Q

[Kardwill]

I use Greg because it's silly. Durkula/Durkoff is too dignified. I dislike vampires of all breed and traditions, so using a perfectly ordinary name to designate one of those prince-of-darkness-wanabes is pleasant. It belittles the creature, it drives home the fact that it is NOT evil Durkon, it's easier to know who you're talking about (cause a sentence talking about both Durkon and Durkula/Durkoff would turn into a confusing jumble of Durks), and it give me the petty but fuzzy feeling I'm insulting it and its mistress. :smallsmile:
There's also the small pleasure to use an obscure reference around other fans that will recognise it. Durkula doesn't feel that way.

If I had to use another name, it would be HPoH. Forget this "frontarchy" foolishness at the conclave : Greg is the primary agent of Hel on the material plane and its most powerful representative, every other vampire cleric of Hel takes order from it, and more importantly the goddess herself calls it "My High Priest", so it's the High Priest, whatever the political facade for outsider might be. The Hel representative at the conclave is as much the High Priest as the dragon-blimp was the ruler of the Empire of Blood.

[Jasdoif]

I don't think ive seen anyone use HPoH since the godsmoot however many months ago on account of it no longer being accurate.Well, let's see. The comic strip that suggested "Greg" as the name for HPoH was 1030 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1030.html), which was posted on March 25....So, I'm going to count forum search results in this forum, from then to when you made that post I just quoted.

Number of posts containing "Greg": 512
Number of posts containing "Durkula": 270
Number of posts containing "HPoH": 162
Number of posts by Jasdoif containing "HPoH": 38
Number of posts by Keltest containing "HPoH": 2

Even with as rough a measure as that is, it's fortunate that I think HPoH is allowed multiple monikers :smalltongue:

(The last item in the list is you quoting The Artisan and Mahonri Violist, by the way; the search including quoted text is a big factor of the roughness of using this as a measure....)

[Kish]

I encourage everyone who wants to go back to calling him the High Priest of Hel to do so. If that ever becomes what a majority of forumites call him (and "majority" here without counting those who call him a certain something I never will), I will as well, so if you actually want to push for uniformity it's a better choice than certain other options.

[pendell]

Isn't the question "Who's Greg?" the entire point of the name joke? I feel like people complaining that the name is obfuscating are missing the point entirely. "Greg" users fully expect new members to ask the question, and to be confounded thusly.

If you keep denying Greg as a valid name for the vampire spirit and continue to complain of the name's absurdity/uselessness, congratulations:you are the reason why calling it Greg will never get old. :smallamused:

Well, the way I see it ... the vampire derives his personality from Durkon ... so can we call him Durkon'?

*Runs in a serpentine fashion* ,

Brian P.

[hroþila]

I honestly don't get why a consensus is important. Just call him whatever you want? Most of the time there is no actual confusion, and if there is, it's not hard to clarify.

[pendell]

Rereading that section when Malack vamped Durkon .. that's interesting. Not all vampires are alike. Malack was actually Durkon's friend when D was alive. That's why he spared his friends' lives. He was capable of making commitments.

He seems a lot more interesting than Durkula/HPOH, who seems to have pretty much no redeeming aspects.

Still, it seems as if over hundreds of years the Vampire has been living the part of the mortal that he's almost forgotten that he's not the original person.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Quibblicious]

Rereading that section when Malack vamped Durkon .. that's interesting. Not all vampires are alike. Malack was actually Durkon's friend when D was alive. That's why he spared his friends' lives. He was capable of making commitments.

He seems a lot more interesting than Durkula/HPOH, who seems to have pretty much no redeeming aspects.

Still, it seems as if over hundreds of years the Vampire has been living the part of the mortal that he's almost forgotten that he's not the original person.

I think that's more a reflection of Malack's lawful evil nature. He's a very organized mind. It may have been his nature before becoming a vampire, or perhaps he developed that over centuries of experience. That's partly why he fits so well within Tarquin's companions -- they're all lawful in one way or another, and willing to make and abide by agreements and foster relationships such as when Malack accused Tarquin of mucking about with the Order of the Stick instead of attacking for effect(here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0854.html)). Nale, who is chaotic, expects a battle between the two, but the two lawful types respect the agreements they've made and Tarquin apologizes.

Malack doesn't have an intellectual/wisdom equal among Tarquin's group, and he was overjoyed to meet someone he liked who was educated and in a similar profession, a colleague, as was pointed out elsewhere. He respected Durkon and had they not ended up opposing each other, he would have been his friend, right up until Durkon learned he was a vampire, anyway, at which point Durkon would have probably ended the friendship.

My whole point is that Malack has a far more disciplined mind than Durkula, for a variety of reasons.




*Runs in a serpentine fashion* ,


You dropped onto your belly and slithered away?

Or did you drop and do the Worm to a righteous beat?

Did I miss a cue? Was I supposed to play?

<sigh>Being a bard is hard...

Yours in Righteous Tunes,
Q

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Well, the way I see it ... the vampire derives his personality from Durkon ... so can we call him Durkon'?

*Runs in a serpentine fashion* ,

Brian P.

dDurkon/dx?

[are]

dDurkon/dx?

Well, Greg's guilt trip tactics in this strip are already derivative.

[Gruffe]

I wonder what happened to Durkon's old armour?

I'm guessing Durkon will get a new wardrobe once (if?) revived. At most Roy might have Durkon's hammer since the vampire didn't have it when he fled, though he had his armour and shield at the time.

Well that or Durkon recovers it from where ever the Vampire had left it, but new clothes may be a good visual of a change, Durkon won't leave this the same person he entered this in.

[Peelee]

dDurkon/dx?

Oooh, I like that one.

[Ruck]

I encourage everyone who wants to go back to calling him the High Priest of Hel to do so. If that ever becomes what a majority of forumites call him (and "majority" here without counting those who call him a certain something I never will), I will as well, so if you actually want to push for uniformity it's a better choice than certain other options.

You really hate puns, huh? Or just this one?

(For the record, I'm personally rather indifferent to what people call him, since I recognize pretty much all the standard names. I just think it's fair to argue that a name that's easily recognized by more casual posters is preferable.)

[Rogar Demonblud]

I wonder what happened to Durkon's old armour?

I'm guessing Durkon will get a new wardrobe once (if?) revived. At most Roy might have Durkon's hammer since the vampire didn't have it when he fled, though he had his armour and shield at the time.

Well that or Durkon recovers it from where ever the Vampire had left it, but new clothes may be a good visual of a change, Durkon won't leave this the same person he entered this in.

His hammer hasn't been seen since Malack vamped him. If it is a Holy weapon as theorized, the vampire wouldn't want it near it.