Best villanous class

[Specter]

Which class do you think is the best for making antagonists, both in and out of combat? Why?

I'll start by saying Rogue, for:

1) Cunning Action: Free disengage is annoying enough, hiding quickly and running out of reach are icing on the cake.
2) Expertise: both for the social aspect or the tools of the trade, expertise is a quintessential villain ability.
3) Uncanny Dodge/Evasion: these give rogues more effective HP than d10 classes, and having players finding a way around these abilities is an interesting challenge.

[Naanomi]

In combat: monk (open hand, shadow, long death): the hit-and-run and stunning Strike abilities are just not tactics most monsters utilize effectively... a big-bad monk with a few low-mid level apprentices is a very fun encounter and lots of 'the villain got away!' potential

Out of combat: Enchanter Wizard; just nothing really beats modify memory and the like for real villainous plots

[GlenSmash!]

For combat I'd say Necromancer Wizard.

For intrigue I'd say Diviner Wizard.

[TheUser]

Subtle Sorcerer.

Having an antagonist who can do magic in social and combat situations while disguising themselves or being invisible is probably the most cancerous thing a party could ever deal with.

[smcmike]

Druid. Recurring villains are more fun than dead ones, and Druids are good at getting away. It's also easy to give them interesting minions to command.

[Vulsutyr]

A lore wizard who targets the glass cannons first with strength save-or-sucks, and is smart enough to know when to run away or stop targeting the tanks.

[Harrysonford]

An evil lore bard paired with an oath breaker paladin. The bard could buff the paladin and debuff the heros, while the paladin can have an undead ally or two from animate dead, while dealing massive magical and physical damage, prossibly mounted on a skeletal horse or a nightmare.

[Waterdeep Merch]

A self-righteous vengeance paladin could be insane. Tons of fast damage, plentiful on-demand healing, practically spell-proof at high levels, and capable of standing toe-to-toe with the worst the players have. Give him an escort and watch him plow through players like a thresh through wheat.

For inspiration, check out Luca Blight (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhNCbGDE4GI). Possibly the best non-blackguard example of an evil paladin imaginable.

[Sariel Vailo]

A bard just a bard who at the right moment revelas he is really a bard 3 wizard diabolist 17 he has been a party member to study the way the party acts gow they think to appropriately fight against them

[Falcon X]

Oath of Treachery Paladin (Blackguard)
This guy is big and tough, but wholeheartedly selfish. He will run the second the tide turns against him.
However, that is also part of his build. He can go through walls, create duplicate images of himself, take someone's attack and redirect it into their ally. I would build him pretty mobile too, perhaps with a level or two of rogue. That ensures he can chase you down and maneuver the way he wants to. Very scary.

[jas61292]

Champion Fighter. Or really any class.

The best villains are those who you think of as evil because of who they are and what evil deeds they do, not what abilities they possess. The less there is to distract from the evil acts themselves, the better. But a well made villain will work regardless of the abilities.

That said, personally I dislike making NPCs as if they were PCs in the first place. The game is not designed with that in mind, so most of my villains just have NPC stat blocks with abilities ripped from multiple classes and monsters.

[Dappershire]

I'd like to throw Great Old One Warlock into the mix. Enchanters are fine being evil Killgravers.
But can they rape your mind -and- have tentacles erupt from their nipples? I thought not.

[Sariel Vailo]

Cok ring arcane focus demons soewing forth from **** holes

[Beelzebubba]

One that is extremely socially-skilled and politically powerful.

That makes the characters 'outlaws' by going against them, puts a lot of resources at the disposal of the villain, and reduces the number of allies they can count on. If the characters aren't careful, they will be perceived as the problem.

So, IMO Sorcerers, Bards, Paladins (the Charisma classes) have the most chance of this.
Clerics can also have an entire church behind them.

[Citan]

Which class do you think is the best for making antagonists, both in and out of combat? Why?

I'll start by saying Rogue, for:

1) Cunning Action: Free disengage is annoying enough, hiding quickly and running out of reach are icing on the cake.
2) Expertise: both for the social aspect or the tools of the trade, expertise is a quintessential villain ability.
3) Uncanny Dodge/Evasion: these give rogues more effective HP than d10 classes, and having players finding a way around these abilities is an interesting challenge.
Hi!
Depends on what you call "best" really.

For a BBEG...

That is easily identifiable as such yet provide a great challenge to players
1) Monk: extreme mobility and stun to create surprise among a party that is used to control the pace and placement.
2) Eldricht Knight or Paladin: to make them understand how painful high AC creatures can be. XD
3) Necromancer Wizard: for the classic one-against-all feeling.
Wizard > others overall "in void", but then a BBEG would probably have hirelings and minions, in addition to a safe place in which to fight. The Monk could have created his own Way, a Paladin be high-ranked in an Order, a Knight have his own platoon...

That works hidden and undetected, making traps and false leads, ambushing players when they lest expect it.
1) Rogue: Assassin works wonderfully here: can impersonate a local servant to try direct assassination, or use one of his identity to order mercenaries without exposing himself, and still a Rogue in fight (provided he manages to bring party on his chosen ground, can be a bit tricky).
2) Moon Druid: to make party kill on sight any animal, domestic or otherwise, that would lurk within 100 feet of them.
3) Warlock: many great short-rest spells to influence (Suggestion) or weaken (Dream) party.

But really, the best imo is the one that "fits" the most the party and world, meaning one that...
- Has counters to several tactics the party uses in every fight (make your party learn about thinking out of the box).
- Has a handful of tricks that specifically aims at party weaknesses (provided of course, the BBEG had a reason to be already aware of party and spying it for some time).
- Has one small weakness that is generally known around, and two big weaknesses that the party can exploit if it's smart enough to look for it.
- Has a clear objective (at least for itself, even if unknown to the players) which allows DM to make changes in the world on regular instances, unless the party do something about it.

>>> Objective is simply to create a "long-term" someone that has a strong enough influence to motivate party to antagonize him/her, and has abilities that force party to proactively think and act because they are aware that just rushing will result in their death, or worse.

For example...

Party has very little spellcasting (Monk, Ranger, Rogue) and is very low-level.
For now, options are limited. If I want to create a BBEG they could face soon, I prefer avoiding high-level spells or AOE spells, so no full-caster.
Because my players also love being confrontational and face-to-face, I think they would like someone that is more of the "blunt, direct" way for now.

Two options: a local Necromancer that just managed to learn how to Raise undead and starts trying to rule a region. The party could be integrated to the local task force and help to whatever they can. But even then, technically the Wizard could fairly easily wipe them out.

So I'd rather go for an Eldricht Knight, a ex-noble that was ancient high military of the country, that went rogue because he was dissatisfied of how things were run and how little gratitude and acknowledgment he received from his peers. Now he created a local group of mercenaries, that ended up hired by a lord: the group helps the lord undermine a rival's economy, in exchange the lord helps the EK prepare a coup against the king.
As an ex-noble, that guy likes facing challenges head-on and, in spite of getting in a criminal life, he stills tries to uphold some "noble" values and as such enforces a strict rule of conduct for his men. Also slightly overconfident in his abilities and as such very arrogant.

(Ok, there are some bits that seem a bit contradictory with each other, but I'll work on it ^^).

An 6th level STR Eldricht Knight with 18 STR, 10 DEX, 16 CON, 14 INT, 8 WIS, 8 CHA with Minor Illusion, Booming Blade, Magic Missile, Shield, Burning Hands, Expeditious Retreat and Sharpshooter (yes, Sharpshooter ^^) should be a great challenger: average HP 13+5*3+5d10 = 13+15+28 = 56 (or up to 83), AC 20 (heavy armor + potential shield), wielding Javelins (yes, Sharpshooter will allow him to ignore long-range disadvantage and cover) with backup Handaxes.

The party may...
a) Find a way to make non-hostile contact with him, and suggest a 1on3 challenge (DC 20 Persuasion check).
b) Try to ambush him while he's alone (he's confident enough in his abilities to travel alone or with a single apprentice).
c) Get help from other peoples to form a tougher party and fight directly the whole group...

In a 1 on 3, once the party all hit level 3 (Arcane Trickster, Beastmaster, Flurry of Blows -multiclass-), it should be a very hard encounter but doable provided they cooperate (encounter in ruins or urban environment with several covers). Main difficulty will be to force EK to come into range to gang up on him or find cover on three different places to always have an angle to fire at him. Too close range = Burning Hands, too far = Sharpshooter Javelins or Expeditious Retreat to close in, and very hard to hit in the first place.

Although obviously the better way would be to grow the party with at least one healer or at least wait to be level 4. Or even plan some big distraction on the hideout etc...

Anyways, should I implement such a NPC as an antagonist, I would provide many hints at how powerful he is (compared to current party state) so they try to grow their strength one way or another and make him a mid-term objective. If they are stupid enough to rush to his hideout, then as lenient and accomodating as I may be, I won't hold back. Stupidity is fun, but only up to a certain degree...:smallbiggrin:

[Beechgnome]

I like Mastermind Rogues for their ability to lie without much repercussion and that at-distance Help bonus action, which Makes them dangerous without getting their hands dirty.

For straight-out boss fights, any Wizard (Abjurer or Enchanter come to mind) with minions can be a handful.