How should I deal with a hyper orphan snowflake.

[Sariel Vailo]

One of my players (my younger brother) must always be the typical orphan I have no family boohoo I'm to the smartest person ever and I have no family.that is his background he roleplays as cold emotionless and uncaring about everything except his current project.

[Unoriginal]

One of my players (my younger brother) must always be the typical orphan I have no family boohoo I'm to the smartest person ever and I have no family.that is his background he roleplays as cold emotionless and uncaring about everything except his current project.

If he's disruptive of the game, talk to him.

If you just want to have a giggle and your brother isn't going to take it badly, just make the group encounter a group of 6 adventurers who are all like that.

I mean, who are all cold, emotionless and uncaring orphans who think they're special and unique despite all the similarities.

[GlenSmash!]

Hmm, always tough when family is concerned. The first though off the top of my head is to have an out of character talk about why all his characters are like that, and how it can get tedious for you.

My second thought is to "Show him a Mirror". Build an NPC along the same lines, maybe even exaggerate some my making the NPC the Uber-orphan-emotionless snowflake. The goal is to let him see how you, and perhaps your other players see his characters.

Either way, be prepared for a little pushback. Some players, particularly the younger ones, get real attached to their character concepts. The good news is they tend to grow out of it. Thank Pelor I did.

[Sariel Vailo]

Hmm, always tough when family is concerned. The first though off the top of my head is to have an out of character talk about why all his characters are like that, and how it can get tedious for you.

My second thought is to "Show him a Mirror". Build an NPC along the same lines, maybe even exaggerate some my making the NPC the Uber-orphan-emotionless snowflake. The goal is to let him see how you, and perhaps your other players see his characters.

Either way, be prepared for a little pushback. Some players, particularly the younger ones, get real attached to their character concepts. The good news is they tend to grow out of it. Thank Pelor I did.
He is 19 i just want him to emote every so often.or have some other person the character knows his logic is and I quote"if i have some one i care about you'll kill them" i might i might not im a dm.if youre a paldin or cleric,and rougue also fighter yes i might.bard,wizard,sorcerer,ranger,monk less likely

[Unoriginal]

He is 19 i just want him to emote every so often.

Is he having fun?



if youre a paldin or cleric,and rougue also fighter yes i might.bard,wizard,sorcerer,ranger,monk less likely

Why?

[Sariel Vailo]

Martial do gooders given the choice to sacrifice themselves for those they care about.or holy warriors same stick difrent End. Wizards and sorcerers and monks are usually alone or out of touch with their emotions or trained to forgo them to acheive peace. He is having fun but its always a orphan snowflake if it was evey two or three i could deal when one orphan snowflake dies another takes its place with a difrent class or race same or similar name.

[Lombra]

Don't take it negatively, special snowflakes are a good opportunity to hook intreasting plots and can add cool dilemmas during the games. If he has fun, and is not ruining the fun for the table, there's nothing to be handled more carefully than there is with any other player. Let him roll with his concept and have fun! Even a party full of Drizzt clones can be funny ya know ;)

[Sariel Vailo]

Don't take it negatively, special snowflakes are a good opportunity to hook intreasting plots and can add cool dilemmas during the games. If he has fun, and is not ruining the fun for the table, there's nothing to be handled more carefully than there is with any other player. Let him roll with his concept and have fun! Even a party full of Drizzt clones can be funny ya know ;)

If only he was a drow he is a damn human.or half elf.

[GlenSmash!]

He is 19 i just want him to emote every so often.or have some other person the character knows his logic is and I quote"if i have some one i care about you'll kill them" i might i might not im a dm.if youre a paldin or cleric,and rougue also fighter yes i might.bard,wizard,sorcerer,ranger,monk less likely

I can relate. To this day I have a lot of trouble showing when I like or am excited about something. Somewhere along the way i must have had it ingrained in me that people will use that knowledge to hurt me.

Ok, scratch my other advice. He doesn't need a mirror he needs a reason to believe that investing in a role will be rewarding. My suggestion now is to invest in his orphan sociopath character. Like, after the party accomplishes something have word get around. Have townspeople and children admire him, the local bard sings a song of their exploits in the Tavern, with a verse about him specifically. Have the Bartender give them a round on the house. Small things like that. Essentially treat him like the character you would want to see rather than the one he made, and see what happens.

[Sariel Vailo]

I can relate. To this day I have a lot of trouble showing when I like or am excited about something. Somewhere along the way i must have had it ingrained in me that people will use that knowledge to hurt me.

Ok, scratch my other advice. He doesn't need a mirror he needs a reason to believe that investing in a role will be rewarding. My suggestion now is to invest in his orphan sociopath character. Like, after the party accomplishes something have word get around. Have townspeople and children admire him, the local bard sings a song of their exploits in the Tavern, with a verse about him specifically. Have the Bartender give them a round on the house. Small things like that. Essentially treat him like the character you would want to see rather than the one he made, and see what happens.

Perfect thank you ill try it I knew some one would get it.

[GlenSmash!]

Perfect thank you ill try it I knew some one would get it.

Happy to help!

[Spore]

He is uneasy roleplaying what he really thinks is cool. I doubt he is enjoying the third copy of his "usual" character. And he is 19. Some people his age are quite mature and secure personalities. Some are not. Try to provide an environment where he can develop his characters - even take it is a challenge to offer him the occasional NPC that likes the character, falls in love with them and tries to change the ways of said character.

It is cheesy but you can have a love interest try to thaw his cold heart. Give him a few chums that want him to loosen up with a night of drinking. Offer him a membership in a secret society (thieves' guild, etc.) that requires for his demeanor to change to be "more normal" in order not to attract attention. Even if it is his job ingame to pretend to be normal it is still him roleplaying more normal.

But NEVER ever force him to pick up in these different ways of playing. Let him find his own pace towards "normalcy".

edit: I JUST recognized someone already gave you a similar advice.

[Vaz]

If only he was a drow he is a damn human.or half elf.

That's racist.

[Sigreid]

two words, true resurrection:smallbiggrin:.

[GlenSmash!]

He is uneasy roleplaying what he really thinks is cool. I doubt he is enjoying the third copy of his "usual" character. And he is 19. Some people his age are quite mature and secure personalities. Some are not. Try to provide an environment where he can develop his characters - even take it is a challenge to offer him the occasional NPC that likes the character, falls in love with them and tries to change the ways of said character.

It is cheesy but you can have a love interest try to thaw his cold heart. Give him a few chums that want him to loosen up with a night of drinking. Offer him a membership in a secret society (thieves' guild, etc.) that requires for his demeanor to change to be "more normal" in order not to attract attention. Even if it is his job ingame to pretend to be normal it is still him roleplaying more normal.

But NEVER ever force him to pick up in these different ways of playing. Let him find his own pace towards "normalcy".

edit: I JUST recognized someone already gave you a similar advice.

I say, keep giving examples of this. Maybe the player will hate my ideas, but love the thieves guild thing. Also you're last sentence is essential. Encourage, but never try to force.

[KorvinStarmast]

One of the finest remedies to annoying characters, is the invisible stalker.

The remedy for an annoying player is:
(1) to either get that person to see what's the problem, and own it, thus fix it (at least a bit)
(2) perseverance
(3) an invitation to find another table.

You seem to be in situation 2. It's your cross to bear, and family is important.

[Sariel Vailo]

One of the finest remedies to annoying characters, is the invisible stalker.

The remedy for an annoying player is:
(1) to either get that person to see what's the problem, and own it, thus fix it (at least a bit)
(2) perseverance
(3) an invitation to find another table.

You seem to be in situation 2. It's your cross to bear, and family is important.
Yeah im persevering i got him ta chill out a lil on it just talked to him

[KorvinStarmast]

Yeah im persevering i got him ta chill out a lil on it just talked to him Best wishes in things going better in coming adventures. :smallcool:

[Sariel Vailo]

He got married had(has)evil grin a wife and two kids who at or may not be dead because of a corrupt demon worshiping jarl named ivan.that is his new character he wants to build as a human
Craftsman from mfov he wants build guns the first guns I'll let him but if I say no it's no

[polymphus]

Okay you're gonna need a time machine for this.

Travel 10 years into the future until he's not an awful angsty teenager any more, then play your games.

If he's already over 25 and he still acts like this, I'd suggest tying him to the train tracks and/or finding a new player.

[Sariel Vailo]

So im also working on making a large continent war.based campaign with all 6 alignments having two kingdoms ivan
Being as evil as possible and arthur being lawful good with a strange dynamic they elect a high king if some one attempts to have a war with any of the twelve equal sized kingdoms.with a delegation happening as often as possible to declare terrifs taxes guard patrols.

[mgshamster]

He got married had(has)evil grin a wife and two kids who at or may not be dead because of a corrupt demon worshiping jarl named ivan.

This right here is why he keeps making PCs who have no family and care for no one.

You keep teaching him that everyone he cares about gets kidnapped or killed by some NPC. Stop that.

Having DM after DM like that is the exact same reason why I always make PCs with no family, too. For a long time it seemed like I could never play a character who simply has a loving family back home. Some jerk DM would always use it against me - or even worse, make me choose between saving a loved one or saving a city. Better to just have a PC with no attachments.

[Sariel Vailo]

This right here is why he keeps making PCs who have no family and care for no one.

You keep teaching him that everyone he cares about gets kidnapped or killed by some NPC. Stop that.

Having DM after DM like that is the exact same reason why I always make PCs with no family, too. For a long time it seemed like I could never play a character who simply has a loving family back home. Some jerk DM would always use it against me - or even worse, make me choose between saving a loved one or saving a city. Better to just have a PC with no attachments.

Their alive and if all goes well safe he mah even rule the labd after all is said and done.but yeah this is my first time doing this to him.he doesnt trust me cause he can never tell what im planning.or when i get creative.

[mgshamster]

So, the sequence of events is this:

1) He makes PCs with no family.

2) You complain.

3) He says that he fears you'll kill them.

4) You convince him to make a PC with family.

5) He makes PC with family.

6) You immediately use his family against him and maybe kill them.

Congratulations, you've made a perfect recipe to ensure he will never make a PC with a family ever again.

The ONE fear he had for PCs you specifically used against him, right after he specifically told you the reason and you convinced him to do it any ways.

This is by no means on him.

This is entirely your fault.

[Sariel Vailo]

So, the sequence of events is this:

1) He makes PCs with no family.

2) You complain.

3) He says that he fears you'll kill them.

4) You convince him to make a PC with family.

5) He makes PC with family.

6) You immediately use his family against him and maybe kill them.

Congratulations, you've made a perfect recipe to ensure he will never make a PC with a family ever again.

The ONE fear he had for PCs you specifically used against him, right after he specifically told you the reason and you convinced him to do it any ways.

This is by no means on him.

This is entirely your fault.
No they arent dead they are being used as leverage so he will have to build great weapons for this king not dead ill say it again aliiiiiiive.

[Sariel Vailo]

So, the sequence of events is this:

1) He makes PCs with no family.

2) You complain.

3) He says that he fears you'll kill them.

4) You convince him to make a PC with family.

5) He makes PC with family.

6) You immediately use his family against him and maybe kill them.

Congratulations, you've made a perfect recipe to ensure he will never make a PC with a family ever again.

The ONE fear he had for PCs you specifically used against him, right after he specifically told you the reason and you convinced him to do it any ways.

This is by no means on him.

This is entirely your fault.
stilll breathing being used as leverage yes pcs potentialy enough to kill said lord and save the family depends on the grouuuup.can they be saved yes.does he know im using them as leverage yessssss.did he actually suggest it and is cool with it actually yes yes he is

[Potato_Priest]

No they arent dead they are being used as leverage so he will have to build great weapons for this king not dead ill say it again aliiiiiiive.

They're still being used against him, letting the DM effectively take control of his character. Let them go.

Edit: If he's ok with it, then it's all good.

[Sariel Vailo]

They're still being used against him, letting the DM effectively take control of his character. Let them go.

Edit: If he's ok with it, then it's all good.

Yeah he wants to have the peasants uprise thus he wants tk make the first guns so by level twenty already satrting at about ten or so i figure he will work fast to gain allies to ensure the end of the evil ivan

[Zanos]

This is entirely your fault.
Yeah, sounds like the brother is just a tad too clever for his own good.

Seriously OP? Your brother doesn't make characters with serious emotional attachments because he's afraid you'll abuse them, and that's the first thing you do?

[Sariel Vailo]

Yeah, sounds like the brother is just a tad too clever for his own good.

Seriously OP? Your brother doesn't make characters with serious emotional attachments because he's afraid you'll abuse them, and that's the first thing you do?

Did you read how he suggested it to me or did you skip that one.
If you did refer to the bolded text if not just keep say ing its my fault.

[CaptainSarathai]

It sounds like this might be a few things:

Is he taking the Urchin background for perceived rules advantages? I know it's a popular way to get Perception Skill on some classes who can't get it otherwise. This is more of an AL thing, though.

Admit it: do you have a reputation for killing people's families and friends for cheap narrative gain? I've had DMs like this. It's annoying. If that's the case, then this is just pushback for that style of DMing, I'd do it too.

Is it possible that they are unwilling, unable, or just cannot be bothered, to roleplay their character? There could be many reasons for this. Could be shyness, could be that they're not able to come up with a better character, or it could be that they're just not engaged by the NPCs that they could be caring about. That last option would also make sense with the "one track mind" - if the sidequests you're providing are disinteresting to him, then the choice not to take the bait probably owes more to that than his character's motivations.

Right now you're looking at this as a problem with his character. The problem seems more like the player. You need to ask if they're enjoying themselves. If not, then you need to determine why not. It could be something that you are (or aren't) doing as a DM, or it could be that he's just not as interested in playing D&D for some reason. Work that out, and explain that his character is disruptive, and see what you can work out together.

[Sariel Vailo]

It sounds like this might be a few things:

Is he taking the Urchin background for perceived rules advantages? I know it's a popular way to get Perception Skill on some classes who can't get it otherwise. This is more of an AL thing, though.

Admit it: do you have a reputation for killing people's families and friends for cheap narrative gain? I've had DMs like this. It's annoying. If that's the case, then this is just pushback for that style of DMing, I'd do it too.

Is it possible that they are unwilling, unable, or just cannot be bothered, to roleplay their character? There could be many reasons for this. Could be shyness, could be that they're not able to come up with a better character, or it could be that they're just not engaged by the NPCs that they could be caring about. That last option would also make sense with the "one track mind" - if the sidequests you're providing are disinteresting to him, then the choice not to take the bait probably owes more to that than his character's motivations.

Right now you're looking at this as a problem with his character. The problem seems more like the player. You need to ask if they're enjoying themselves. If not, then you need to determine why not. It could be something that you are (or aren't) doing as a DM, or it could be that he's just not as interested in playing D&D for some reason. Work that out, and explain that his character is disruptive, and see what you can work out together.
My first time i usualy leave family alone.
He does it because he gets board and cant remember what his backstories are. He wants play having two characters feeling. He will have more fun if he had more to do. He doesn't like to roleplay he is shy and autustic im trying to include him if even to minor socialize him its all people weve played with before my so and his brother.

[CaptainSarathai]

Ah, my little bro is autistic too, but unfortunately he's got some other developmental stuff going on and can't play D&D with me :(

Autism does kinda make someone a bit withdrawn, and is sometimes characterized by a lack of empathy. There are theories that it's an evolutionary holdover from a time when people really did have to think like that; that family and bonds were a liability, because the wild animals living beyond the firelight don't really care if they just ate your baby sister - they're coming for you next and if you stop to cry about it, the whole tribe dies.

If he's bored though, that's an issue. What parts of the game engage him? If you can focus on those a little more heavily and keep him in the spotlight a bit more, it might bring him back into line.
Otherwise, it might be one of those situations where this isn't really a good hobby for him, and you may need to come up with another way to bond and spend time together. Not saying that you should bail on your other D&D friends, just, maybe put out an LFG type message to find other players, and then do something else with your brother.

[Sariel Vailo]

Ah, my little bro is autistic too, but unfortunately he's got some other developmental stuff going on and can't play D&D with me :(

Autism does kinda make someone a bit withdrawn, and is sometimes characterized by a lack of empathy. There are theories that it's an evolutionary holdover from a time when people really did have to think like that; that family and bonds were a liability, because the wild animals living beyond the firelight don't really care if they just ate your baby sister - they're coming for you next and if you stop to cry about it, the whole tribe dies.

If he's bored though, that's an issue. What parts of the game engage him? If you can focus on those a little more heavily and keep him in the spotlight a bit more, it might bring him back into line.
Otherwise, it might be one of those situations where this isn't really a good hobby for him, and you may need to come up with another way to bond and spend time together. Not saying that you should bail on your other D&D friends, just, maybe put out an LFG type message to find other players, and then do something else with your brother.
Im sorry as well but the things he likes are action sequences battles spellcatsting if things are complicated and being useful cant stress the last one enough he had a character commit suicide because he felt not useful

[Quoxis]

If only he was a drow he is a damn human.or half elf.

"If only he were a drow, if only he was of a certain class..."

It sounds like he's playing the same character in different iterations, but it sounds like you're pressing your players into molds. Might wanna see to that first.

[Sariel Vailo]

So you realize the issue has been resolved right we and by we i mean the ones with good advice glen thatd be you and captain.

[Hooligan]

Kill his character with lightning and gravity, savage his family.

[Sariel Vailo]

Kill his character with lightning and gravity, savage his family.
Im definitely going to take that as a possible outcome

[Contrast]

He is 19 i just want him to emote every so often.or have some other person the character knows his logic is and I quote"if i have some one i care about you'll kill them" i might i might not im a dm.if youre a paldin or cleric,and rougue also fighter yes i might.bard,wizard,sorcerer,ranger,monk less likely

Two things. One - keep in mind not everyone enjoys the same things. I enjoy roleplaying. I have a friend who enjoys rolling dice and killing things. I find games where we do nothing but kill things boring, she finds games where we do nothing but talk boring. A GM trying to 'fix' our preferences would just make us not have fun. May or may not be the situation in your case, obviously everything is by degree and in an ideal world we all give and take so everyone has fun.

Second thing, what the hell does character class have to do with the likelihood of someones loved ones getting attacked in game? Surely that's something to do with the story circumstances and nothing to do with the class? Unless you're the type of DM who likes to kidnap the paladins family specifically because they're a paladin and you want to torture them with their alignment for reasons (in which case you deserve all the push back you get from your players).

[GlenSmash!]

He got married had(has)evil grin a wife and two kids who at or may not be dead because of a corrupt demon worshiping jarl named ivan.that is his new character he wants to build as a human
Craftsman from mfov he wants build guns the first guns I'll let him but if I say no it's no

Wow, you turned up the "Invest in his character advice" to 11. I was thinking something subtle that you could gradually build over the campaign. Going this big from the get go could backfire and just cause him to not want to invest in his characters again.

[Hooligan]

Second thing, what the hell does character class have to do with the likelihood of someones loved ones getting attacked in game? Surely that's something to do with the story circumstances and nothing to do with the class? Unless you're the type of DM who likes to kidnap the paladins family specifically because they're a paladin and you want to torture them with their alignment for reasons (in which case you deserve all the push back you get from your players).

I disagree. The world of D&D is a brutal place, where one is just a roll of the dice away from death & people you know & love are frequently murdered. Just as the DM should never bring an NPC he/she are prepared to lose within a dozen miles of the party, so characters should be aware that any backstory they invent can be used against them.

Personally, I like when a DM draws from my backstory to add tension.

[Vaz]

I disagree. The world of D&D is a brutal place, where one is just a roll of the dice away from death & people you know & love are frequently murdered. Just as the DM should never bring an NPC he/she are prepared to lose within a dozen miles of the party, so characters should be aware that any backstory they invent can be used against them.

Personally, I like when a DM draws from my backstory to add tension.

When your backstory is "I have a father", and your DM is "lol dead", I'd get pretty un-tense about these things because there's no tension in repeating the same story time after time. It's why Alien gives the jump the first time you see the chestburster, or the Conjuring. But after then? Nah.

[Hooligan]

When your backstory is "I have a father", and your DM is "lol dead", I'd get pretty un-tense about these things because there's no tension in repeating the same story time after time. It's why Alien gives the jump the first time you see the chestburster, or the Conjuring. But after then? Nah.

Perhaps you just don't bear your backstory-dad as much affection as I do?

[Sariel Vailo]

specifically because they're a paladin and you want to torture them with their alignment for reasons (in which case you deserve all the push back you get from your players). rougue has family but would kill the person who touches his family so not that fun of a story or plot hook.paladin a brave and honorable holy knight (with revivify)can revive their love. Family is only touched if.during session zero i ask some one if its ok.b if they ask me for some real nitty gritty my family can die stough.or c they want me to take their background into consideration

[CaptainSarathai]

This is going to sound so very sick, out of context.

As a DM, I don't usually go in for killing family, especially off screen with no chance for player intervention.

Firstly - I want my players to write bsckstories that include family. It ties them into the world and bridges the gap between player and NPC. I just spent quite a long time with one of my players who wanted to come up with a backstory for her character's parents. We came up with a great story, and they're some of the party's favorite NPCs. They have as much character growth as the players do. Killing them out of hand would be wasteful, and would encourage players to take the same "orphan, antisocial" approach that you hate so much.

Secondly - family can be used as plot hooks and motivation. You said that the Rogue would hunt down and kill whoever murdered his family - that's just about the best reaction to a murdered family you could ask for from a PC, and could honestly form an entire adventure alone. I have also had PCs who did show up orphaned, but specified that the BBEG had killed their family, and their motivation to go on this campaign was to find the murderer and get revenge/justice/whatever.
More commonly though, I kidnap family or put them in some other peril which requires player intervention. This makes a much more compelling story. Does the Paladin abandon his quest and return home to rescue his parents, or does he carry on his Oath despite great personal cost? That is character growth, that is a memorable moment.
Players are a lot more likely to go an investigate that goblin warren that I just made last weekend if I tell them that their baby sister was abducted, rather than just "a couple of random merchants" or whatever.

Thirdly- You never know what kind of reaction you'll get from players. Yes, some might go and avenge their family. Others might not care. I gave one of my recent families a huge family as part of his backstory. His father was an abusive widower, his sister was the mother-figure, his older brother were bullies set to inherit the father's wealth, and the younger brothers were too young to run away from it all. So Jackie loved his sister, adored and doted on his little brothers, and at the table I always made a point to describe him writing letters and buying or finding souvenirs to send home. The noobish, knob-headed DM decided to have them all killed by some shadowy guild, offscreen and with no chance of me saving them. Jackie found the bodies and just broke. The pain basically burned out his ability to feel anything. I did (in my opinion) a good job of realistically portraying that kind of despondent grief, but I also did it as a screw-job against that DM.

Lastly - it's cliche, hackey writing. Look at how annoyed people are with ISoIaF (aka GoT) about Martin just killing/raping everyone, all the time.
"Oh, you like this character and formed a bond? dead!"
Look at how silly Princess Peach is - she only exists to get captured by Bowser over, and over again.
It gets old. It's tired, it's played out. It's like the "damsel in distress."
If the DAM can't motivate their characters to get out there and do something without having a murder-boner for their families, then that DM is probably an awful story teller.

It helps a lot that I let my players make their own back story. If they want dead parents to be their reason for questing, then okay. But they already tell me why their character became an adventurer, and what their character hopes to gain by adventuring. That is what I use for motivating them to go on quests. That, plus rumors of items that they want or need, or payment, or things that they've taken to caring about at the table or a sense of just doing the right thing.

[Sariel Vailo]

It makes sense captain i always give the opportunity to save some one even give them. Enough time to do so.

[Contrast]

I disagree. The world of D&D is a brutal place, where one is just a roll of the dice away from death & people you know & love are frequently murdered. Just as the DM should never bring an NPC he/she are prepared to lose within a dozen miles of the party, so characters should be aware that any backstory they invent can be used against them.

Personally, I like when a DM draws from my backstory to add tension.

...I never said DMs shouldn't kill or threaten a characters loved ones? As long as its done right and the players and DM are all on the same page (which is the caveat on pretty much everything about role playing games).

I said playing a paladin shouldn't make it more likely to happen compared to playing a wizard (which is what OP stated is true for his games in the section I quoted).


rougue has family but would kill the person who touches his family so not that fun of a story or plot hook.paladin a brave and honorable holy knight (with revivify)can revive their love. Family is only touched if.during session zero i ask some one if its ok.b if they ask me for some real nitty gritty my family can die stough.or c they want me to take their background into consideration

What? So all rogues act the same and all paladins act the same? Why isn't revenge a fun story or plot hook (how is it not a plot hook!)? Also you said rogues were one of the classes you were more likely to kill off their family and now you're saying that killing a rogues family isn't interesting :smallconfused: You only attack the families of people capable of cast res spells and paladins are included because they get access to revivify? Is my family is safe as long as I make sure to stay more than 1 minute away from them at all times?

Seriously, what? :smallconfused:

If my backstory is that my family is the head of a crime syndicate and is currently at war with multiple other crime syndicates, it should be expected that they would be in some degree of danger, regardless of if my character is a rogue or a monk or whatever. The point I'm trying to make is that there are lots of story things which may impact if your characters loved ones are in danger. Character class should not be one of those things.

[Sariel Vailo]

...I never said DMs shouldn't kill or threaten a characters loved ones? As long as its done right and the players and DM are all on the same page (which is the caveat on pretty much everything about role playing games).

I said playing a paladin shouldn't make it more likely to happen compared to playing a wizard (which is what OP stated is true for his games in the section I quoted).



What? So all rogues act the same and all paladins act the same? Why isn't revenge a fun story or plot hook (how is it not a plot hook!)? Also you said rogues were one of the classes you were more likely to kill off their family and now you're saying that killing a rogues family isn't interesting :smallconfused: You only attack the families of people capable of cast res spells and paladins are included because they get access to revivify? Is my family is safe as long as I make sure to stay more than 1 minute away from them at all times?

Seriously, what? :smallconfused:

If my backstory is that my family is the head of a crime syndicate and is currently at war with multiple other crime syndicates, it should be expected that they would be in some degree of danger, regardless of if my character is a rogue or a monk or whatever. The point I'm trying to make is that there are lots of story things which may impact if your characters loved ones are in danger. Character class should not be one of those things.
Alas what backgrounds be yer loved ones if they be criminal and step on the wrong toes they may be liable. The truth is i ususally see whats going on in the session zeros. This particualr time he wants the family in danger but wants me to figure out what happened to them