E6 - Removing PrC BAB and Skill Requirements

[SirNibbles]

As the title states, I'm interested in what it would be like to run an E6 game in which the BAB and skill requirements for PrCs were removed. All other requirements, such as the ability to cast spells of a certain level, class features, and feats, would be required.

Would this be overly exploitable? My initial thought is that martial characters would have an easier time meeting PrC requirements, which would be nice.

I can also see quite a few second level entries into Abjurant Champion or Spellsword, but I don't think it's too powerful.

[Hackulator]

how are you getting into spellsword at level 2?

[SirNibbles]

how are you getting into spellsword at level 2?

The Precocious Apprentice feat (Complete Arcane, page 181) on a Duskblade gets you 2nd level Arcane spells and all the proficiencies you need.

[Hackulator]

Technically, by RAW, no. Spellsword requires the ability to cast second level spells, plural. Precocious apprentive gives you the ability to cast a single spell.

However, that's really beside the point of your post. I think it could be a good idea to add a little more variation to an E6 campaign, and the fact that you can't get part level 5 would limit the power of a lot of PrCs. You would likely have to individually approve or deny things though, as I'm sure there are some things that would get stupid even in E6. For example, you certainly couldn't allow Ur-Priest under those rules, as it would break E6.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I can also see quite a few second level entries into Abjurant Champion or Spellsword, but I don't think it's too powerful.
A Wizard with a +5 BAB and a d10 HD doesn't sound too powerful to you? Not to mention, as Hackulator touched on, all the things that give accelerated casting. Ur Priest is bad, but the save requirements mean you can only get up to 3 levels and 3rd level spells with it. On the other hand, I could get into Chameleon at 2nd level without skill requirements and finish up with 4th level arcane or divine casting; Divine Crusader could get up to 5th level spells from a single domain, but it's not like it's hard to acquire more domains...

[johnbragg]

A Wizard with a +5 BAB and a d10 HD doesn't sound too powerful to you? Not to mention, as Hackulator touched on, all the things that give accelerated casting. Ur Priest is bad, but the save requirements mean you can only get up to 3 levels and 3rd level spells with it. On the other hand, I could get into Chameleon at 2nd level without skill requirements and finish up with 4th level arcane or divine casting; Divine Crusader could get up to 5th level spells from a single domain, but it's not like it's hard to acquire more domains...

My rule of thumb when I write E6 PRCs for hybrid classes is to bascially require one level in each base class, one "dead level" where you get the signature ability of the PrC (ranged legerdemain, arcane channeling, whatever) and then proceed for 3 more levels of PrC. So something like Wizard 1/Fighter 1/Gish 4, for a +4 BAB and 4th level spellcasting.

By that standard, I'd set a +1 BAB requirement to enter Abjurant Champion, and take away the +1 BAB and +1 Spellcasting from Abjurant Champion 1. So you could maybe go Wizard 2/Abjurant Champion 4, giving you 5th level spellcasting (and 3rd level spells).

For the OP: I wouldn't REMOVE the BAB and Skill requirements, I'd adjust them so that PRC entry is only possible at level 3.

[SirNibbles]

Technically, by RAW, no. Spellsword requires the ability to cast second level spells, plural. Precocious apprentive gives you the ability to cast a single spell.

However, that's really beside the point of your post. I think it could be a good idea to add a little more variation to an E6 campaign, and the fact that you can't get part level 5 would limit the power of a lot of PrCs. You would likely have to individually approve or deny things though, as I'm sure there are some things that would get stupid even in E6. For example, you certainly couldn't allow Ur-Priest under those rules, as it would break E6.

We can argue about Precocious Apprentice for hours, thanks to classic vague wording from WOTC. Some DMs allow it, some don't.

I do agree that it'd basically come down to individually approving builds (which I prefer to do anyhow to make sure a player hasn't planned anything illegal by accident).


A Wizard with a +5 BAB and a d10 HD doesn't sound too powerful to you? Not to mention, as Hackulator touched on, all the things that give accelerated casting. Ur Priest is bad, but the save requirements mean you can only get up to 3 levels and 3rd level spells with it. On the other hand, I could get into Chameleon at 2nd level without skill requirements and finish up with 4th level arcane or divine casting; Divine Crusader could get up to 5th level spells from a single domain, but it's not like it's hard to acquire more domains...

Well, now that you put it like that, I suppose it does sound a bit strong. Accelerated casters would definitely be an issue.


My rule of thumb when I write E6 PRCs for hybrid classes is to bascially require one level in each base class, one "dead level" where you get the signature ability of the PrC (ranged legerdemain, arcane channeling, whatever) and then proceed for 3 more levels of PrC. So something like Wizard 1/Fighter 1/Gish 4, for a +4 BAB and 4th level spellcasting.

By that standard, I'd set a +1 BAB requirement to enter Abjurant Champion, and take away the +1 BAB and +1 Spellcasting from Abjurant Champion 1. So you could maybe go Wizard 2/Abjurant Champion 4, giving you 5th level spellcasting (and 3rd level spells).

For the OP: I wouldn't REMOVE the BAB and Skill requirements, I'd adjust them so that PRC entry is only possible at level 3.

The level 3 entry sounds like a good idea.

[Thomeyis]

I'm doing something similar in my E6 game, where in place of a feat, a character can swap out a level of a class for a level in any prestige class, so long as the swap doesn't cause them to lose the prerequisites for any classes. So if something requires 9 ranks in Jump, they can swap for the prestige class so long as they spend one of their skill points on Jump. Are there corner cases which are overpowered in the E6 world? Yes. But you're playing such a heavily customized game at that point that you should really be pre-approving every player's character builds before they're made.

Another option if you want players to be able to customize their builds to include prestige classes is to add a custom feat:

Fake Prestige Class Advancement Feat

Prerequisite: Character level 6th.
Benefit: Choose one class feature from any prestige class you meet the entry prerequisites for. You gain all the benefits of that class feature.
Special: This feat requires DM approval on all chosen class features.