guidance for Paladin/Rogue multiclass

[Big Papa Turnip]

Hey, all. One of my current campaigns is ending soon and it seems like we'll be jumping right into another one afterwards.

I've got what seems like a Fun and Flavorful™ charter build in mind, and I'd love some help ironing out the wrinkles. So, here's what we've got.

Tiefling (feral variant) Treachery Paladin 4/Swashbuckler Rogue 6
STR 8
DEX 14 (+2 racial)
CON 14
INT 10 (+1 racial)
WIS 12
CHA 14

Devil's Tongue variant feature to replace thaumaturgy/hellish rebuke/darkness with vicious mockery/charm person/enthrall for flavor purposes.

Starting Paladin gives me proficiency with medium armor and shields. We'll be going rapier+shield ("buckler") for a duelist feel.
Dueling for fighting style.
Oath of Treachery for its Channel Divinity.
Forego the ASI at paladin4 and take Magic Initiate (Warlock) for Booming Blade, Friends, and Hex.

Afterwards, we start putting levels in Rogue. Expertise in Deception and Persuasion. Can start using Booming Blade + Sneak Attack to make up for no Extra Attack.
Swashbuckler so we can strike and step back to safety, and don't need advantage to apply Sneak Attack (though it will still benefit our poison attack from Channel Divinity).

Combat will be nothing to write home about but will still be fun and mobile. 1d8 + 1d8 (+2d8 if they move during BB) + 1d6 (+2d10 OR 20 + 3 once per day) + 2 + 3. We'll have access to Vicious Mockery, Hex, Bless, Cure Wounds, and Shield of Faith for combat utility (or we can just smite three times). We'll also have a small Lay on Hands pool to draw from.

Out of combat we'll make a good party face and will be a blast to roleplay. A sleazy, womanizing "paladin" with a quick tongue and a taste for luxury.

I'm by no means an optimizer, I understand our tiefling pal here is far from minmaxed, but I'm open to any suggestions or criticisms, or any changes you would make yourself.

[Specter]

RP-wise, I'd be sure to check with the table to see if an evil character is ok.

[Big Papa Turnip]

RP-wise, I'd be sure to check with the table to see if an evil character is ok.

Paladin oaths don't have alignment requirements in 5e, do they? I can see how Oath of Treachery would definitely lend itself to an evil paladin but I have no plans to play him as such. At least not to the extent that my friends and co-players wouldn't want me in the group anymore.

On an alignment table, he'd fall comfortably under "lovable jerk" or "that greasy turd".

[djreynolds]

Did your DM hand wave the strength requirement of 13? If he didn't... make sure to ask him to

Now IMO magic initiate is great for characters that perhaps could not multiclass into a spell caster but would like some magic. BIG DUMB FIGHTERS with 8s & 10s in wis, int, chr

You have a 13 in charisma. So instead of magic initiate warlock, why not 1 level of warlock? Or sorcerer?

And now with perhaps a level of warlock... you have a short rest spell slot, good for smiting

[MeeposFire]

Paladin oaths don't have alignment requirements in 5e, do they? I can see how Oath of Treachery would definitely lend itself to an evil paladin but I have no plans to play him as such. At least not to the extent that my friends and co-players wouldn't want me in the group anymore.

On an alignment table, he'd fall comfortably under "lovable jerk" or "that greasy turd".

It is true that there are no explicit alignment requirements for any oath though what you will find is that certain oaths due to what they do require do tend towards certain alignments more easily.


My advice is to not worry about what your alignment says and rather try to figure out what your character actually stands for. How does he fulfill his oaths. How does he respond to certain situations. Then after deciding these things you can get a better idea of what your character is actually like.

What you really need to talk with the DM and other characters is how you will treat the other characters. DOing actions often that drives people crazy or gets their characters killed would be something you might want to ask about first because that can lead to group strife.

[Big Papa Turnip]

I had forgotten about the STR requirement for Paladin multiclassing, thank you for reminding me. If I shuffle my stats around to account for it, I end up at 13, 14, 14, 8, 9, 14, before race bonuses. That's not particularly great but I'll get by.

I also hadn't considered taking a full level in a caster class instead of using the paladin 4 ASI on Magic Initiate. Especially considering that level has no other benefits for it. So Treachery3/Sorcerer/Swashbuckler6, I can work with that.

And as far as group attitude goes, we're all close friends, so I've got no intention of harassing the other players or making their game more difficult. No more than we already do to each other regularly, at least.

[JohnDaBarr]

I recently tinkered with a similar build and came to the conclusion that the best multiclass option is the Cleric with Trickery domain. It's good flavor wise and 4 levels of Trickery domain Cleric offer medium armor + shield, large number of cantrips and spells (like Guidance and Bless), some nice and very useful domain spells and a decent Chanel Divinity that basicaly gives you advantage on attacks for one combat per short rest and it also has unlimited potential outside of combat. Plus bumping Wisdom to 13 shouldn't be a problem with your original stats so it's easyer to multiclass.

[djreynolds]

I had forgotten about the STR requirement for Paladin multiclassing, thank you for reminding me. If I shuffle my stats around to account for it, I end up at 13, 14, 14, 8, 9, 14, before race bonuses. That's not particularly great but I'll get by.

I also hadn't considered taking a full level in a caster class instead of using the paladin 4 ASI on Magic Initiate. Especially considering that level has no other benefits for it. So Treachery3/Sorcerer/Swashbuckler6, I can work with that.

And as far as group attitude goes, we're all close friends, so I've got no intention of harassing the other players or making their game more difficult. No more than we already do to each other regularly, at least.

This works, sorcerer also gives you access to the shield spell which will cover you till rogue 5 and uncanny dodge, also draconic gives like free "mage armor" + dex

[Mortis_Elrod]

It is true that there are no explicit alignment requirements for any oath though what you will find is that certain oaths due to what they do require do tend towards certain alignments more easily.


My advice is to not worry about what your alignment says and rather try to figure out what your character actually stands for. How does he fulfill his oaths. How does he respond to certain situations. Then after deciding these things you can get a better idea of what your character is actually like.

What you really need to talk with the DM and other characters is how you will treat the other characters. DOing actions often that drives people crazy or gets their characters killed would be something you might want to ask about first because that can lead to group strife.

From what i know Treachery doesn't have an oath to follow. Its a truly Free Paladin. But in any case i mostly i agree. Nobody should be hung up on alignment, play your character how you character really is, just make sure not to do things that will upset your other playmates (at least without warning).