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Footman
2017-07-28, 04:14 AM
Hello there!
I read a lot on the Internet, that the Fighter is not viable or very weak at High Lvl Gameplay. Right now my Group is playing a High Lvl (Lvl 17) Campaign, so I am Considering a Fighter as a Replacement Character should my First character kick the Bucket. I used all my System Mastery and made a Build.
So now I am asking: Is this build viable? Did I forget anything very important a Fighter must have at that Level? Do you have any suggestions to make this Character better?

My DM is very liberal, i can use Combat Stamina for free, and I can use any Book published from Pathfinder. No 3.5 Stuff or Thrid Party content allowed. I am allowed to have some Wizards craft Stuff for me for a reasonable Price. Since the Character starts so High Lvl I am allowed to have the Accursed Story Feat already completed.

Build:

Name: Lvl 17 Fighter
Race: Human (Shoanti)
Player:
Classes: Fighter17
Hit Points: 208
Experience: 1300000 / 1800000
Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
Vision: /
Speed: Walk 30 ft.
Languages: Common, Goblin, Shoanti
Stat Score Mod
STR 28 (+9)
DEX 20 (+5)
CON 20 (+5)
INT 12 (+1)
WIS 18 (+4)
CHA 7 (-2)
-------------------------- Skills --------------------------
Skill Total Rnk Stat Msc
Acrobatics 7 5.0 5 -3
Appraise 1 0.0 1 0
Artistry 1 0.0 1 0
Bluff -2 0.0 -2 0
Climb 10 1.0 9 3 -3
Craft (Untrained) 1 0.0 1 0
Craft Armor: 23 17.0 1 5
Diplomacy -2 0.0 -2 0
Disguise -2 0.0 -2 0
Escape Artist 2 0.0 5 -3
Fly 2 0.0 5 -3
Heal 9 5.0 4 0
Intimidate -2 0.0 -2 0
Perception 25 17.0 4 4
Perform (Untrained) -2 0.0 -2 0
Ride 6 1.0 5 3 -3
Sense Motive 27 17.0 4 6
Stealth 5 3.0 5 -3
Survival 8 1.0 4 3
Swim 10 1.0 9 3 -3
Use Magic Device 15 17.0 -2 0
-------------------------- Feats ---------------------------
(Not listed in Order Taken but Alphabetically.) 19 Feats.

1. Accursed
2. Advanced Weapon Training (Feat): Abundant Tactics
3. Advanced Weapon Training (Feat): Defensive Weapon Training
4. Advanced Weapon Training (Feat): Fighters Reflexes
5. Barroom Brawler
6. Cleave
7. Clarity of Pain
8. Combat Reflexes
9. Cut from the Air
10. Dazing Assault
11. Furious Focus
12. Great Cleave
13. Improved Critical (Falchion)
14. Improved Initiative
15. Improved Iron Will
16. Improved Unarmed Strike
17. Iron Will
18. Power Attack
-. Smash from the Air (Taken via Advanced Weapon Training Class Feature)
19. Snake Style

Traits:
Reactionary
Seeker
Deathtouched (Mind Affecting)
Outcasts Intuition

Drawbacks:
Pride

-------------------- Special Abilities ---------------------
Advanced Armor and Weapon Training Options:

Advanced Weapon Training (Class Feature): Armed Bravery
Advanced Weapon Training (Class Feature): Trained Initiative
Advanced Weapon Training (Class Feature): Weapon Mastery: Smash from the Air
Advanced Armor Training (Class Feature): Armor Specialization (Heavy)
Advanced Armor Training (Class Feature): Master Armorer
Advanced Armor Training (Class Feature): Armored Master: Sprightly Armor

-------------------------- Combat --------------------------
Total / Touch / Flat Footed
AC: 43 / 28 / 38
Initiative: +22
BAB: +17/+12/+7/+2
Melee to hit: +26/+21/+16/+11
Ranged to hit: +22/+17/+12/+7
Fortitude: +20
Reflex: +21
Will: +20
(+2 vs Spells and Spell like Abilities +2 vs mind Effecting Effects.)



Unarmed attack:
to hit: +26/+21/+16/+11
damage: 1d3+9
critical: 20/x2

Falchion +5 (Noqual):
to hit: +37/+32/+27/+22
damage: 2d4+24
critical: 15-20/x2
special properties: 30 hp/inch, hardness 10

Gauntlet, Spiked:
to hit: +26/+21/+16/+11
damage: 1d4+9
critical: 20/x2

Chakram:
to hit: +28/+23/+18/+13
damage: 1d8+6
critical: 20/x2
range: 30 ft.

Dagger:
to hit: +26/+21/+16/+11
damage: 1d4+9
critical: 19-20/x2

Dagger (Thrown):
to hit: +22/+17/+12/+7
damage: 1d4
critical: 19-20/x2
range: 10 ft.

Earth Breaker:
to hit: +26/+21/+16/+11
damage: 2d6+13
critical: 20/x3

Falchion:
to hit: +32/+27/+22/+17
damage: 2d4+19
critical: 15-20/x2

Scythe:
to hit: +32/+27/+22/+17
damage: 2d4+19
critical: 20/x4
special properties: May be used to make trip attacks (pg.145)

Armor Spikes:
to hit: +26/+21/+16/+11
damage: 1d6+9
critical: 20/x2
special properties: deals extra piercing damage on a successful grapple attack
Gauntlet:
to hit: +26/+21/+16/+11
damage: 1d3+9
critical: 20/x2
--------------------- Special Abilities --------------------

------------------------- Equipment ------------------------
Name QTY LBS
Amulet of Natural Armor +4 1 0lbs

Headband of Inspired Wisdom +6 1 1lbs

Magical Tattoo of Sustenance 1 0lbs Special: This Tattoo continually provides its wearer with life-sustaining nourishment. The ring also refreshes the body and mind its wearer needs only sleep 2 hours per day to gain the benefit of 8 hours of sleep. This allows a spellcaster that requires rest to prepare spells to do so after only 2 hours, but this does not allow a spellcaster to prepare spells more than once per day. The Tattoo must be worn for a full week before it begins to work. If it is removed, the owner must wear it for another week to reattune it to himself.

Falchion +5 (Noqual) 1 4lbs

Gloves of Dueling 1 0lbs

Ring of Freedom of Movement 1

Ring of Protection +4 1 0lbs

Gauntlet, Spiked 1 0lbs

Belt of Physical Perfection +6 1 1lbs

Cloak of Resistance +5 1 1lbs

Full Plate +5 (Noqual/Armor Spikes) 1 25lbs Special: 30 hp/inch, hardness 10, Spiked

Magical Tattoo of Keep Watch 1 0lbs Special: This spell enables the subjects to stand watch or keep vigil throughout the night without any ill effects. The subjects suffer no fatigue and gain all the usual benefits of a full night’s rest. The subjects gain hit points as though from resting, wizards may prepare their spells as though they had slept for 8 hours, and so on. Effects that rely on actual sleep or dreaming are ineffective, though the subjects are still susceptible to effects that would put them to sleep, such as sleep or deep slumber. Any vigorous activity, including fighting, immediately ends the effect, and the affected creatures must either have the spell cast on them again or sleep for the remaining hours to avoid fatigue and gain the benefits of a full night’s rest.

Boots of the Earth 1 5lbs Special: These sturdy leather dwarven boots have soles made of thick gray marble. As a move action, the wearer can plant her feet and draw strength from the earth, gaining fast healing 1 and a +4 bonus to CMD to resist bull rush, repositionAPG, and trip combat maneuver attempts. These effects end if the wearer moves or is moved, knocked prone, or rendered unconscious.

Air Crystals 5 5lbs

Fighter's Kit 1 29lbs Special: This kit includes a backpack, a bedroll, a belt pouch, a flint and steel, an iron pot, a mess kit, rope, soap, torches (10), trail rations (5 days), and a waterskin.

Crowbar

Grappling Hook,

Potion of Cure Light Wounds x2

Rope (Silk/50 ft.)

Chakram Carried x5

Dagger Carried x20

Earth Breaker Carried x1

Falchion Carried x2

Scythe Carried

Bat(Dire/Riding/Combat Trained) (0 lbs.)

Unspent Gold: 4718

Total weight carried: 150,05 lbs.
Current load: Light
Encumbrance
Light: 400
Medium: 800
Heavy: 1200
--------------------------- Magic --------------------------
/
22 Stamina Points.


How I think this Character can be used: (Please tell me if I made an Error somewhere misinterpreted/overlooked Something)
Thanks to Abundant Tactics i have 7 uses of Barrom Brawler, with these i can Pick a Feat on the Fly. If I spend 5 Stamina Points I can do that as a Swift instead of a move Action.

Best Picks in my Opinion:
Advanced Weapon Training (Warrior Spirit): That Pretty much gives me Access to whatever Sword enchantment I want.
Advanced Armor Training: (Item Mastery): This is the most Importent Part of the Build because I can now get D-Door and Fly if i need to, as well as Darkvision and see Invisibility.

Other Stamina Stuff:
Improved Initiative: I can spend 10 Stamina Points to treat my Initiative roll as a Natural 20. With my +22 to Initative that means a 42.
So if i absolutly need to go first i can.

Dazing Assault:
I can spend 5 Stamina Points to force an Enemy to make a Fort save vs Daze after i have hit without Penality.

Defense:
Spell Resistance 28 against harmfull Enchantment, Necromancy and Transmutation Spells.
Smash from the Air allows me use up my Attacks of Opportunity to Parry ranged Attacks and range Touch Spells.
With my high Attacks Bonus this should Protect me against Stuff like Disintegrate and Enervation.
With Snake Style I can use my Sense Motive roll instead of my Touch Ac should something make a Meele Touch attack. Should there be more than one, I can use up 5 Stamina Points for each Attack and Use my Sense Motive roll.

Sprightly Armor Stamina Trick: Should I really need to make this Reflex Safe I can spend up to 5 Stamina Points and get a Bonus on the Reflex Save.
Thanks to Clarity of Pain and Improved Iron Will I got 4 Will Save rerolls in Total per Day.

So I am pretty Confident that this Fighter is strong. Of course he is not Invincible. A Maze Spell for example will take him right out of the Fight, but is he strong enough? Does he have any glaring Weaknesses i have overlooked? Or am I missing any extremly Importend Abilities i should have at that high Lvl?

Thanks for your Answers in Advance.

Kitsuneymg
2017-07-28, 08:37 AM
I'd drop Abundant Tactics and Barroom Brawler and just do a 1 level Brawler dip instead. You can take Extra Martial Flexibility to make up the difference. (I like this more than the fighter's capstone.) You can use ftr 4/8/12/etc to trade out a bonus combat feat (Improved Unarmed Strike from brawler 1) for something useful you can then take Warrior Spirit as a AWT feat without needing to use flex on it, saving flex for skill point juggling or item mastery.

I'd also buy a bunch of +1 training shurikens with Advanced Weapon training: Item Mastery: Whatever as the feats in them. You can also easily buy 2 +1 training gauntlets and an amulet of mighty fists with training on it (up to 5 times if you really want) and use that to get Spellcut (if BAB > a save), Improved Init, Sprightly Armor, etc etc. Basically feats that aren't to be used as prereques. The shuriken trick is extra cheesy though, but you can buy a single +1 training shuriken for a bit over 166 GP IIRC. If you get quickdraw via a training gauntlet, you can have whatever item mastery thing you require any round you want it. If you use a buckler or light shield, you can hold the shuriken in your hand and still use your shield. For extreme cheese, use shurikens of Extra Martial Flexibility as well. Remember too that toughness is a combat feat.

Use the Weapon Master's Handbook custom weapon to make a 1d2 18-20/x3 exotic weapon and wield that instead of a Falchion.

If possible, try to get a +6 cha item (Cha: 13) and +2 Inherent bonus (Cha 15) so you can take eldritch heritage/improved eldritch heritage on the orc bloodline. It's a pretty good strength boost IIRC and gives you native ability to become large. Or if you have a buffer wizard in the party, ignore this.

You will maybe want a sash of the war champion to further power up Bravery. Plus the assorted ioun stones that add +1 to attack, saves, ac, etc. You need duelist gloves.

For my money, iron will/improved iron just aren't good enough to justify 2 feats. Your save is easily going to be at least 6(base)+4(wis)+5(bravery)+5(cloak)+1(ioun stone)=21 without those feats. I'd really look to see if you can't get a better bargain somewhere else (item of protection from evil, for instance.) I probably forgot a cheap save booster too, but it's been a long time since I played in a non-SoP/PoW game. Sorry.

You may benefit from the Critical Focus line of feats too. Stunning Crit can be fun.

Other than those minor details, the character looks to be about as good as you can expect from a fighter. Depending on the level of optimization your DM employs, this will serve you well, but it won't allow you to standard-action-nope most encounters. You will still require a caster for some stuff, but DD and Dispel a few (dozen) times a day can really help that.

Footman
2017-07-29, 06:57 AM
Thanks for the Advice! Especially on the Magic Items, because i really don't have much expierence with them.
So Thank you very much! Time to get my Fighter some Ioun Stones and other Equipment.

Florian
2017-07-29, 07:49 AM
@Footman:

Giving advice on a Fighter build is a bit hard without knowing your party composition, a bit about your play style (Small dungeon rooms? Free open ranged? Lots of combat? Large scale battles?) and how you personally handle fluff.

You can build a solid core based on a Dwarf, VMC Barbarian, Extra Rage Power, Steel Soul and Shatterspell (and Abundant Tactics on that).

You can build a tactical nightmare on a Fetchling, Shadow Traveler (and Racial Item Mastery to power it) and Dimensional Assault.

stanprollyright
2017-07-29, 10:01 AM
Normally I'd recommend either Lore Warden or Tactician archetype for more skill points, but you've got really good stats, so maybe just put more points into Int rather than Wis. All you really want from Wisdom is Will saves, and you're already taking Armed Bravery and Improved Iron Will. For everything else that Wisdom is based on (perception, sense motive), having twice as many skill points will be much more useful, especially with so many of your skill points tied up in Item Mastery prereqs. With more skills to do what you like and the the Martial Flexibility/Iron Caster shenanigans, you'll be SUPER versatile, which is the opposite of what "they" say about Fighters. Also, Combat Expertise requires 13 Int, and if you can squeeze it into your build, with Barroom Brawler you now have access to the rest of the Improved combat maneuvers and everything else that has Combat Expertise as a prereq. If you have 18 Int AND Lore Warden, you'll get Combat Expertise for free and have as many skill points as a Rogue!

Also, I'm gonna double down on what Kitsuneymg said and heartily suggest a Brawler dip with Extra Martial Flexibility instead of Barroom Brawler/Abundant Tactics. It gets you more uses per day, saves you feats and an advanced weapon training, and you were gonna take Improved Unarmed anyway.

Kayblis
2017-07-29, 11:34 AM
I love how the name is "Lvl 17 Fighter"

Footman
2017-07-30, 02:06 AM
Thanks for taking your Time!

@Florian
We have a Skald/Fighter/some other Stuff Multiclass Build is our main Meele Damage Dealer, we have a Blast-Happy Druid, a Synthesist Summoner (Save or suck and Meele), and my Character a God Wizard. Now our DM really likes to Challenge us and we can't "Standard Action Nope" encounters because we Battle quite a few Enemies at once who are smart enough to Position themselfs well, so the Blaster can't wipe out to many at once. The Terrain alternates between Open Space and tight Dungeon. We are having a lot of encounters every Day and I really have to ration my Spells so they don't run out. I think a Fighter would do very well here since most of his resources don't run out so fast. (Also the Book Keeping of a High Lvl Wizard is a Pain in the Butt.)

I handle Fluff so it makes sense fot the Character. I Fluff a Fighter using SLAs like D-door and Fly, more like that his Magic Sword does this all on his own, and Helps him out. Snake Style would be just nimble Sidestep to evade. Smash from the Air would be hitting a Spell so Hard in the Air with pure Willpower so strong that i negate it.

I really wanna stay Single Class Fighter without VMCs, and i know of the Dimnsional line of Feats, but three Feats for Pounce a few times per day seems to costly for me unless I am building a aspiring Mage-Killer which this Character isn't.

@stanprollyright
Believe me! I need everything i can get that gives me a higher Will save. There is nothing more that i hate than getting dominated, and no matter what i play, i can rarely roll above a 5 when it comes to Will saves. A Dip into brawler would be more optimal I know, Thanks, but like I sayed, I want to stay single classed.

When it comes to Combat Manauvers, they just don't seem to be useful in my Campaign. Everything Humansized or smaller seems to be a Caster, everything Brawler like is Huge and more with CMDs of + forget it (which is why my wizard rarely uses Black Tentacles).

Now the Skills thing got me Interested. I thought i really had all the Skills i needed. This is still a Fighter, what more Skills would you take? Disable Device?

@max5212
Now i could bore you with the Backstory of "He who walks in Blood", (Milk name Kragan), a Shoanti Warrior who killed the Love of his live in a Sacred Ritual Fight to Settle a Disput between two Shoanti Clans, who now seeks a honorable meaningful Death.
Or i could just call him Lvl 17 Fighter, because I am asking for build Advice. :P