A relatively simple fix for martials – using ToB

[nonsi]

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ToB – thematically speaking – is a wonderful inspiration.
That being said, I find several elements in the execution of the classes that don't sit well with me… and as experience has shown me, with many others as well.
Therefore, I present the following suggestion – in order of priority I find appropriate.
I believe this would also open the door for many ToB opposers.


1. Maneuvers are always ready.
Reason I: the power difference will not be significant, a slight power-up is not necessarily a bad thing, and it would require a lot less bookkeeping.
Reason II: many practitioners of 3.5e are no fans of the Vancian approach and try to circumvent it. It's hard to imagine any of those to be subscribers of ToB.

2. Additional mandatory disciplines: Falling Star (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?10707-Maneuvers-Falling-Star-Discipline) (Swordsage) and Iron Rain (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?145803-Iron-Rain-ToB-saturation-archery) (Crusader & Warblade)
Reason: noncasters fall badly short vs. casters when it comes to range. This is an important step at leveling the playing field.

3. Crusaders and warblades gain stances knows at the same rate as swordsages.
Reason: I've seen many complaints that stances are gained at levels that don't allow optimal selection. Furthermore, 4 stances over 20 levels seems insulting to me.

4. Saves: crusaders have good Will saves and warblades have good Ref saves.
Reason: goes well with the theme of zealot and blademaster (respectively).

5. Crusaders get Smites per encounter.
Reason: 1 Smite / day at mid-high levels is truly an insult.

6. Warblades may also use their bonus feats to take Martial Study and any official Fighter bonus feat, as well as Track and Wild Cohort (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a).
Reason: a master of the blade should have maximum latitude to build his combat strategy, and Warblade seems like the most appropriate of the three to embody the Ranger archetype.

7. Crusaders get Mettle at 9th and Improved Mettle at 17th.
Reason: if you're gonna be the badass of resistance and shrugging off damage and effects, this change fits the bill.

8. Crusaders gain a bonus feat at levels 7 and 14, with the same range of options as the Warblade (Track feat is not mandatory here, but isn't problematic either).
Reason: the class is now a powerhouse, but still offers absolutely no build flexibility with its class features beyond maneuvers. This would give it some, and cover the Special Mount aspect nicely.

9. More class skills: Swordsages gain Escape Artist, Spot, Survival, UMD and Use Rope as class skill (Spot just seems to be unintentionally missing). Warblades gain Listen, Sense Motive, Spot and Survival as class skills. Crusaders also get Handle Animal as class skill.
Reason: Swordsage has most of what it takes to embody the role of a scoundrel or scout (and UMD complements Sense Magic to cover the mystic warrior archetype with Monk adaptation). Soldiers are warblades. Every soldier has his share of guard duties and needs at least the option of not being easily susceptible to deception. The Crusader's Handle Animal is required for tending to one's mount.

10. Swordsages gain Slippery Mind at level 13.
Reason: having the lower battle stats of the trio, at least they should have the opportunity of wriggling free of mental influence. Also, rogues have it as an option and it fits the bill for a Monk-esque character.

11. Warblades base their Battle Clarity/Ardor/Cunning/Skill/Mastery modifiers off of wisdom (intuition and acquired combat insights) or charisma (finesse and gracefulness) rather than intelligence.
Reason: it's counterintuitive to visualize every solid blade expert as a nuclear physicist.

12. A set of solid ToB ACFs (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?138322-DaTedinator-s-Tome-of-Battle-Extravaganza!-ACFs-Feats) for expanding the range of character archetypes.


The above suggestions streamline gameflow, reduce bookkeeping, bring melees closer to spellcasters and are all thematically adequate.

[Eldan]

This sounds like it would result in a quite powerful set of classes in less optimized games. I'm running a campaign of newbies and the casters already feel quite left behind by the crusader at level 4. This will probably readjust itself at higher levels, but still. Spamming maneuvers every round may be too good.

What would you do about, let's call them semi-martial characters? You have the fighter, paladin, barbarian and monk pretty well replaced with the three TOB classes, but what about rogue, ranger, scout, etc.? I can imagine they would feel quite left behind.

[nonsi]

This sounds like it would result in a quite powerful set of classes in less optimized games. I'm running a campaign of newbies and the casters already feel quite left behind by the crusader at level 4. This will probably readjust itself at higher levels, but still. Spamming maneuvers every round may be too good.

What would you do about, let's call them semi-martial characters? You have the fighter, paladin, barbarian and monk pretty well replaced with the three TOB classes, but what about rogue, ranger, scout, etc.? I can imagine they would feel quite left behind.

I did not presume to fix the game here, just melees.
With a bit of effort, Swordsage can be slightly modified to cover Rogue & Scout. Later on I'll think of appropriate class skills to add to the ToB classes to cover some more archetypes.
As far as rangers go, IDK. might also fall under added class skills.
I never viewed Paladin and Ranger spellcasting as something that's thematically mandatory. Such roles can be modeled via multiclassing as far as I'm concerned.

Making fullcasters function decently for extended periods at low levels and preventing them from stepping over everyone else at high levels is an extremely difficult endeavor. The only satisfactory solution I've found requires about 1/4 the content of my overhaul project. I'd be extremely pleased to encounter a simple solution. Till then, I'm content with fullcasters playing a role of utilitarians until mid-levels and only then starting to strive to gain cosmic powers.

Other than that, one might also consider some of the suggestions presented in The Minimalistic 3.5 fix (referenced in my sig).

[Eldan]

Hm. At the most basic bare-bone level, a ranger would really not need much over a fighter. A handful of skills, track as a feat. Animal companions are already available from feats. You're right.

I'd say add track to the bonus feats for warblade and you're basically done.

[nonsi]

Hm. At the most basic bare-bone level, a ranger would really not need much over a fighter. A handful of skills, track as a feat. Animal companions are already available from feats. You're right.

I'd say add track to the bonus feats for warblade and you're basically done.

Done.
Also, #9 now details all skills I find appropriate to add to the ToB classes.

[Eldan]

That looks good, yes.

[Knitifine]

Everything except 11 seems reasonable. Intelligence is the key stat for accumulated knowledge and strategy so it makes the most sense.

[nonsi]

Everything except 11 seems reasonable. Intelligence is the key stat for accumulated knowledge and strategy so it makes the most sense.


One's intellectual capacity has nothing to do with one's ability to land solid strikes or execute combat maneuvers.
Strikes and maneuver-micro-decisions don't belong to the realm of strategy. Heck, they don't even belong to the realm of tactics. they belong to the realm of perception, insight and split-second decisions.
Furthermore, I don't remember ever encountering a dedicated blademaster character on the screen or in literature that was also a polymath overflowing with skills. Throughout the history of D&D, until ToB's Warblade, whenever I encountered a suggestion for a blademaster, the class was always quite one-dimensional. Then came ToB and told us that blademasters are all potentially astrophysicists. That doesn't add up.

If Intelligence had any effect on the Warblade's bag of options, expanded repertoire of any sort or build options of any kind, I could somehow let it slide.
The fact is that it only affects stats related to features that are gained at predetermined levels, at a predetermined order.

Intelligence represents one's speed of learning new information ("determines how well your character learns and reasons").
Wisdom represents one's ability to effectively put to use knowledge that's already been gained ("describes a character’s willpower, common sense, perception, and intuition"). Also, all perception skills are tied to Wisdom.
Between the two, Wis wins hands down.

Charisma could pose an alternative, given that in combat, graceful combatants can sometimes achieve things by mere finesse and guile that wise combatants achieve through insight and perception.

[Eldan]

I suppose when they made TOB they wanted one class using every mental stat. I kinda like warblades with intelligence, really. It's the stat that for me most works with continual training.

[nonsi]

I suppose when they made TOB they wanted one class using every mental stat..


Actually, with double sized repertoire of maneuvers and Discipline Focus, Swordsage seems more appropriate to me to be associated with Intelligence.





I kinda like warblades with intelligence, really.


With Intelligence determining skill points, it's obviously desirable on the player's side.





It's the stat that for me most works with continual training.


AFAIK, any level progression involves continual training.