Low fantasy gaming - your thoughts about this game

[Blymurkla]

I had a tab opened on one of my devices 'to be read later'. I can't remember where I got the link from, why I had the tab open. I finally read it yesterday. Intrigued, I come to hear your thoughts.

lowfantasygaming.com/

(I can't hyperlink here yet)

It's a complete little neat game D20, this Low fantasy gaming.

Have you heard of it? Read it? Played it? What did you think?

I'm puzzled by the lack of communication channels. As far as I can find, there's no link to a forum or a mail address - just comments to blog articles. Do anyone know where this game originated or if the maker hangs around somewhere?

[2D8HP]

Sure, it looks cool, I learned about it from this post:


You might consider Low Fantasy Gaming - free PDF book: https://lowfantasygaming.com/

To summarise, it is an OSR/modern mix, rules lite, with an emphasis on sword & sorcery, low magic, gritty/dangerous combat, 12th level max, roll equal or under attribute, skills = reroll pool, martial exploits, and mechanics to support sandbox style play such as 5 min shorts rests, party retreat and improvisational chase rules.

Since the author of the game @Psikerlord is a member of this Forum you may wish to PM him

[Knaight]

I'm not too likely to actually play it, but there are a lot of things about it which I like.

[Blymurkla]

@Psikerlord [/B] is a member of this Forum you may wish to PM him

Cool, that's good to know!

[Anonymouswizard]

It's one of those games where I'm torn between 'I don't like d20' and 'this is actually quite neat'.

There's quite a bit to like about it, although I'm not sure you can say that a game with over 100 pages of rules is the same kind of game as Lasers and Feelings (or HSFD&D, or Fiasco). I personally tend to refer to Fate as rules heavy these days, I just also use 'rules streamlined' because all the rules are pointing towards one thing (conversely GURPS is 'rules diverse').

Then much of it goes against what I personally like, but very little is outright bad. I'm a bit iffy about the 'create your own features', that's going to rely a lot on GM judgement (not inherently a bad thing, but I've met a lot of GMs who would let magic users pick 'summon storm' at level 3 while rejecting anything better than 'lift heavy stuff' for a 9th level Barbarian). I'm also not a fan of spell slots, in my mind they've been obsolete ever since Tunnels & Trolls brought us point-based casting, but there's nothing inherently wrong with them and they encourage players not to blow all their magic on two castings of 'uberspell meteor pummel'.

Also not a massive fan of how hit points are generated, but that's entirely the random rolls aspect.

Just to get some things I like out of the way, the focus on nonmagical classes is really nice, and most of the art is lovely (I think the only piece I outright dislike is the class portrait for magic users). I could see myself using this as a compromise with a D&D-focus group, I run an all mundanes group of this and we can all have fun. No really, my big problem with 5e is how it can be nearly impossible to run a low magic party. The skill system is simple, but the game isn't trying to pretend it's supposed to be as important as your ability scores (which do the heavy lifting in skill checks) but more a way to access the reroll pool, and is a neat enough mechanic.

Giving a price range for equipment is also a neat idea, it stops the problem of standardised prices. I already believe starting equipment should be a compromise between the player and the GM, so the potential difficulty in buying starting gear doesn't bother me. A shame it doesn't extend to weapons.

Also, I have a massive dislike for combat rolls using a completely different system to out of combat rolls. Please unite everything under a single core mechanic, it was first done over four decades ago.

The lingering injuries for becoming mostly dead are also nice, although not something every group will like. Oh, the same goes for the 'Dark and Dangerous Magic' system, I like my magic difficult but not dangerous.

Now despite there being a lot in there I don't like, it's still a very well put together game. I just don't see myself running this if I have the ability to run Keltia instead (which I significantly prefer, down to in-campaign advancement being a 'spend XP on skills and stats' system while generation is more guided). I'd happily play it, give me a Barbarian, Fighter, or Thief and I'll mock the party magic user for needing a crutch when steel is all an adventurer needs.

[Blymurkla]

I pretty much agree with every point you raise, Anonymouswizard.

For the art, there's at least one additional piece that I find troublesome. There's a woman with a head that's wider than her waist ...

As for the difference between out of combat rolls (BRP-style roll under your ability) and in combat rolls (D&D style add d20 to ability, hit target value) I'm thinking that that's maybe an easy house rule. For ability checks, just roll d20+ability and try and hit 21 (i.e., roll over 20). Not extremely elegant, but perhaps still an improvement.

[Psikerlord]

Hi all, Steve G here the author of LFG. More than happy to answer any questions :)

[Blymurkla]

Hi all, Steve G here the author of LFG. More than happy to answer any questions :) Yeah, I had a question here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?531824-LFG-Off-turn-attacks).

[Psikerlord]

Yeah, I had a question here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?531824-LFG-Off-turn-attacks).

Okidoke I answered that in the other thread :)

[Martin Greywolf]

The system itself is all right - if d20 is your thing. It sort of does something similar to E6, but in a more focused, thought out way.

What bothers me about it is that there was zero research into what weapons and armor actually look like and what they cost. Wooden shields without covering, swords shaped in a way that would make them dangerous to the wielder, bad helmets all around and the less said about that full plate the better. What bothers me much more are the prices though, some highlights include polearms more expensive than swords, long bow twice the price of the short bow and more expensive than a crossbow and 1 gp for a sling.

Also, no such thing as splinted armor.

My biggest problem with it is that its only niche seems to be the d20 people who want something with less magic than DnD 3.5, and even then, it has a problem of being very, very rules-heavy. Sure, many books are even longer than this, FATE Core clocks in at 300, but those contain advice for playing characters and creating adventures (FATE Accelerated is 50 pages with just rules).

If you don't mind learning what is essentially a new system, you may be better off with something geared specifically towards what you want to play (numerous systems for Conan as well as GoT/ASoIaF), if you do, you'll likely not take it up in the first place.

[Anonymouswizard]

My biggest problem with it is that its only niche seems to be the d20 people who want something with less magic than DnD 3.5, and even then, it has a problem of being very, very rules-heavy. Sure, many books are even longer than this, FATE Core clocks in at 300, but those contain advice for playing characters and creating adventures (FATE Accelerated is 50 pages with just rules).

If you don't mind learning what is essentially a new system, you may be better off with something geared specifically towards what you want to play (numerous systems for Conan as well as GoT/ASoIaF), if you do, you'll likely not take it up in the first place.

Yeah. While there is a niche out there for a generic low fantasy system, I think it'll have to be something even more generic than this (or possibly less generic), and likely not d20. Heck, I want a good low magic system.

Oh, for the record, FAE still has several pages of advice, it's just that Fate Core is essentially a hacker's guide, outlining how the default works and giving advice on how to change it. I'd estimate only about 20-30% of Core is actual rules.

I think this would have done really well as rules light. Strip the d20 combat rules down to a single side of A4, have a side or two of gear, and limited the classes to two sides of A4 each. An attempt to squeeze this low fantasy into a small number of pages.

[Psikerlord]

My biggest problem with it is that its only niche seems to be the d20 people who want something with less magic than DnD 3.5, and even then, it has a problem of being very, very rules-heavy. Sure, many books are even longer than this, FATE Core clocks in at 300, but those contain advice for playing characters and creating adventures (FATE Accelerated is 50 pages with just rules).

If you don't mind learning what is essentially a new system, you may be better off with something geared specifically towards what you want to play (numerous systems for Conan as well as GoT/ASoIaF), if you do, you'll likely not take it up in the first place.

Ha! I consdier it rules light! (180 pgs for a whole game, compared to Pathfinder, Shadowrun, 5e). Not sure about comparing to FATE etc, I am not that familiar with them.

[Martin Greywolf]

Oh, for the record, FAE still has several pages of advice, it's just that Fate Core is essentially a hacker's guide, outlining how the default works and giving advice on how to change it. I'd estimate only about 20-30% of Core is actual rules.


It sort of depends on what you consider rules. Barebones FATE Core would probably fit on something like 10 pages, but add skill explanations, examples, extras, stunt examples and it grows pretty fast.

180 pages isn't rules light, not when it is all rules and tables, I'd consider it to be just about the standard length. DnD 3.5 PHB is 170 pages, and it has most of the rules you need to play in it. The ultimate rules light systems are things like Window (http://www.mimgames.com/window/), but that's taking it a bit too far.

[Anonymouswizard]

Ha! I consdier it rules light! (180 pgs for a whole game, compared to Pathfinder, Shadowrun, 5e). Not sure about comparing to FATE etc, I am not that familiar with them.

Lasers and Feelings (http://onesevendesign.com/lasers_and_feelings_rpg.pdf) is a page long (and shows just how rules light you can go, you only have one numbered trait). Fate Accelerated (FAE) (http://drivethrurpg.com/product/114902/Fate-Accelerated-Edition?term=fate+acc&test_epoch=0) is 50 pages (although the 'core' Fate book is ~300 pages). I'm not sure how long PbtA games are, but they tend to be thinnish. Can we please stop pegging D&D as the standard.

180 pages of rules is heavier than the Vortex System (Rocket Age has 157 pages of rules, if you include the GMing Advice), Mongoose Traveller 1e (177 pages of rules), Keltia (135 pages of rules), and quite a few rules medium games. My general rule is that if it takes over 100 pages to tell someone the rules it's definitely rules medium (and I'm iffy on 50 pages as rules light). I tend to peg rules heavy at 300-400 page corebooks, but that doesn't mean there aren't 200-300 page rules heavy games.

[Psikerlord]

Well LFG for classes and how to play inc combat, is about 60 pages. Then it's spell descriptions and monsters and GM tables for the rest. Compared to 3e PHB/DMG/MM (about 800 pages) I consider it light. But compared to Laser or Window etc obviously it isnt, but I would call those games super lite. Hmm on reflection I would probably call LFG rules medium.

[Anonymouswizard]

Well LFG for classes and how to play inc combat, is about 60 pages. Then it's spell descriptions and monsters and GM tables for the rest. Compared to 3e PHB/DMG/MM (about 800 pages) I consider it light. But compared to Laser or Window etc obviously it isnt, but I would call those games super lite. Hmm on reflection I would probably call LFG rules medium.

Yeah, and with all the systems I mentioned I was counting spell descriptions and GM advice as well, and generally monster/NPC rules. Consider that Fate, which is sometimes called rules light (more often called rules medium) can be pared down to 50 pages without much trouble (and switching to A4 paper you'd likely hit 30 pages).

All in all, I'd peg LFG as about as complex as Victoriana, it's not the heaviest system in the world but there's a lot of stuff. It's certainly no GURPS (500 pages of core rules), but it's not exactly light compared to most of the industry. I'd have estimated rules medium as well, although I'm sure someone will disagree.

[goto124]

(and switching to A4 paper you'd likely hit 30 pages).

Wait, what paper size does Fate use? Not A4?

[Anonymouswizard]

Wait, what paper size does Fate use? Not A4?

About A5 in my experience. All the physical books and pdfs are in a size a bit different from your average paperback book. I'd estimate it as about half the area of a standard RPG book page (which tend to be slightly shorter than A4, dammit America it's the standard international size), but don't quote me on that.

We should probably get off the topic of paper sizes, or I'm going to start complaining about how every single character sheet leaves about an inch and a half of unused space when printed on A4 paper. It gets even worse when they have borders (Qin: the Warring States has a horrible character sheet which only uses two thirds of the side of A4 for character information, because of the massive border). I know most companies are American, but international standards exist for a reason.

[CharonsHelper]

180 pages of rules is heavier than the Vortex System (Rocket Age has 157 pages of rules, if you include the GMing Advice), Mongoose Traveller 1e (177 pages of rules), Keltia (135 pages of rules), and quite a few rules medium games. My general rule is that if it takes over 100 pages to tell someone the rules it's definitely rules medium (and I'm iffy on 50 pages as rules light). I tend to peg rules heavy at 300-400 page corebooks, but that doesn't mean there aren't 200-300 page rules heavy games.

I've found that there are about as many different lines drawn between lite/medium/heavy rules as there are people defining them. :vaarsuvius:

Besides the length of the core book, much of the difference seems to be whether someone includes content (spell descriptions/monsters/various starships/classes etc.) or just the rules themselves. Also - it varies depending upon what games that person has both played in general and what they started with.

Myself - I'd argue that even 3.x is only about a 6 or 7/10 because it's an exception based system, so you only need to learn a fraction of the rules to play. (exception based makes it FAR easier to learn, though arguably a bit harder to master)

About the only thing that all of them agree on is that GURPS is heavy. Also - I'd say that Anima is nearly as heavy as GURPS.

Though I've seen someone argue that it wasn't because he can run for people who never read the rules - but that has to do with GURPS generally being a system where PCs don't actively interact with the rules rather than it being anything but really heavy.

[Anonymouswizard]

I've found that there are about as many different lines drawn between lite/medium/heavy rules as there are people defining them. :vaarsuvius:

Besides the length of the core book, much of the difference seems to be whether someone includes content (spell descriptions/monsters/various starships/classes etc.) or just the rules themselves. Also - it varies depending upon what games that person has both played in general and what they started with.

True, I also base it on how generic the rules are. One of the things I love about Lasers and Feelings is that it shows that at the end of the day all the crunchy science fiction rules I love aren't needed, you can just have one number that tells you how good you are at 'lasers' and 'feelings'.


Myself - I'd argue that even 3.x is only about a 6 or 7/10 because it's an exception based system, so you only need to learn a fraction of the rules to play. (exception based makes it FAR easier to learn, though arguably a bit harder to master)

I tend to put 3.X as an 8, it's not the heaviest I've seen, but it relies on exceptions rather than flexible mechanics (I'd but Fate at 5, it's mechanics are flexible and robust, but it still has quite a few mechanics to cover everything). Now it is easier to get the basics of an exception-based system than flexible mechanics, but I tend to find that once you have it down flexible mechanics become much easier to apply.

For the record 'flexible mechanics' here means 'the mechanics aren't specific, they work in every situation', like Fate's Permissions (and never fully spelt out denials) and Invoking.


About the only thing that all of them agree on is that GURPS is heavy. Also - I'd say that Anima is nearly as heavy as GURPS.

Though I've seen someone argue that it wasn't because he can run for people who never read the rules - but that has to do with GURPS generally being a system where PCs don't actively interact with the rules rather than it being anything but really heavy.

Oh man, I feel sorry for the people I know who's first experience with Roleplaying is GURPS 4e (partially because the GM is only using the increase by training rules but didn't tell me about it earlier, my build assumed I could build up my fighting skills in a session or two). They weren't even allowed to build their own characters, which is why I want to run either Fate (it's a writer's group, should go down okay) or something like Rocket Age or Traveller for them. At least with most of the games I own they'd be able to build their own characters, I'd then reduce the difficulty to compensate for them likely having poor builds.

[Psikerlord]

A short & sweet 5 minute video review of LFG by Skinner Games:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFjLKINBSEo

[Psikerlord]

Six city maps for the Midlands (including blank versions for folks to edit themselves): https://lowfantasygaming.com/2017/11/06 ... -midlands/

[Psikerlord]

High Res Midlands Map (Free download): https://lowfantasygaming.com/2017/11/20/midlands-map-download/

Mini adventure #32 - Cultists in Crow's Keep: https://lowfantasygaming.com/2017/12/01/cultists-in-crows-keep/

Midlands Low Magic Sandbox Setting PDF via DTRPG: https://lowfantasygaming.com/2017/12/01/midlands-low-magic-sandbox-setting-pdf/

[Anonymouswizard]

A question, have you considered doing a version of the book with the extra classes in it? I'm considering actually plonking down the money for a softcover version if I can work out if Lulu prints copies in Europe (not paying for shipping from America), but if there's a version with the additional classes in it in the works I might hold off on it, as I'm certainly considering using at least the Artificer (what made me consider LFG as potentially worthwhile to run) and Ranger. The monk I'm less sure about, and will depend on the exact tone I end up with. Even just a second PoD book with the extra classes and some other stuff (maybe an alternative form of magic that anybody can use for a price?) would be interesting. No clue if you've had the interest to justify that though.

[Psikerlord]

A question, have you considered doing a version of the book with the extra classes in it? I'm considering actually plonking down the money for a softcover version if I can work out if Lulu prints copies in Europe (not paying for shipping from America), but if there's a version with the additional classes in it in the works I might hold off on it, as I'm certainly considering using at least the Artificer (what made me consider LFG as potentially worthwhile to run) and Ranger. The monk I'm less sure about, and will depend on the exact tone I end up with. Even just a second PoD book with the extra classes and some other stuff (maybe an alternative form of magic that anybody can use for a price?) would be interesting. No clue if you've had the interest to justify that though.

So currently the 3 extra classes are in the Midlands book, and on the site, but all 8 classes are not amalgamated anywhere. If I end up doing a second edition or something I'll put them all in the core book. It's a possibility, but I'd probably look at some kind of kickstarter for that (the book would already be largely written, so folks would know most of what's coming - but with all the classes together, and some new material as you suggest, + make it full colour art). Not something that would happen anytime soon though.

[Potato_Priest]

@Psikerlord I have a question: How does one get up from the prone condition?

[Psikerlord]

@Psikerlord I have a question: How does one get up from the prone condition?
I usually rule that it costs half movement to get up from prone.

[weckar]

Only usually?

[Psikerlord]

Only usually?

Yep I generally treat difficult terrain/prone the same: half move. If you are in difficult terrain, and prone, costs your whole move to get up.

[weckar]

Those are awfully vague words coming from the system designer.

[Psikerlord]

Those are awfully vague words coming from the system designer.

That is intentional - it's up to the GM to make the ruling.

[Anonymouswizard]

I suppose it's one of the things that'll tweak with campaign tone as well, low fantasy can still go from 'dark and gritty' to 'cinematic action'. It's like how HP in the system works, of I was running a grittier game I might stop the random part, if I'm running a very gritty game I might stop the static part (Barbarians with 1d6 hp per level, it would be a very different game to normal). So in a very cinematic game getting up might be a Tony amount of your movement, in a gritty game it'll cost half or more.

If I get a copy and run LFG I'll likely go with something like a fixed 3m amount (about 9ft, round up to 10 for ease, but it's easier for me to think in SI). But it's certainly something that people would expect in the rules.

[Knaight]

Those are awfully vague words coming from the system designer.

Have you read the system? It's clearly dependent on frequent GM rulings, with high system consistency across GMs pretty clearly not a design goal.


About the only thing that all of them agree on is that GURPS is heavy. Also - I'd say that Anima is nearly as heavy as GURPS.
I'd put Anima down as heavier, though not as heavy as D&D 3.5.

[Potato_Priest]

One thing that I didn't like about the system was the armor classes. In LFG armor classes are even lower than in D&D 5e (AC 16 rather than 20 for plate+shield), and attack bonuses on monsters and martial character scale even faster. This means that by level 5 or so almost no-one is going to be missing their attacks, and the barbarian's defensive feature (half damage during rage) is waaaaaay better than the fighter's options for slightly better AC.

How would you recommend fixing that? The system looks pretty OK apart from this one detail.

[Berenger]

One thing that I didn't like about the system was the armor classes. In LFG armor classes are even lower than in D&D 5e (AC 16 rather than 20 for plate+shield), and attack bonuses on monsters and martial character scale even faster. This means that by level 5 or so almost no-one is going to be missing their attacks, and the barbarian's defensive feature (half damage during rage) is waaaaaay better than the fighter's options for slightly better AC.

How would you recommend fixing that? The system looks pretty OK apart from this one detail.

Personal House Rule:

Everyone gets half their Attack Bonus as a bonus to Armor Class and +1 to AC can be chosen as an Unique Feature (up to four times).

Maximum Armor Class: 10 +5 (heavy armor), +1 (shield) +3 (dexterity 18), +6 (AC bonus at level 12) +4 (four unique features) = 29.

Maximum Attack Bonus: dragon or high level fighter with strength 18 = 1d20+15. Hits maximum Armor Class on a roll of 14 or higher.

[Potato_Priest]

Personal House Rule:

Everyone gets half their Attack Bonus as a bonus to Armor Class and +1 to AC can be chosen as an Unique Feature (up to four times).

Maximum Armor Class: 10 +5 (heavy armor), +1 (shield) +3 (dexterity 18), +6 (AC bonus at level 12) +4 (four unique features) = 29.

Maximum Attack Bonus: dragon or high level fighter with strength 18 = 1d20+15. Hits maximum Armor Class on a roll of 14 or higher.

Hmm. That looks decent. It still doesn't fix my gripe about barbarians being just better than fighters, but it's something. I'd probably use this and ban the barbarian class when running the system. If a player wants to be a barbarian the fighter class works fine with minimal refluffing.

Minor nitpick: Maximum AC would be 30 though, since there's a fighting style that makes the shield give +2.

[Psikerlord]

One thing that I didn't like about the system was the armor classes. In LFG armor classes are even lower than in D&D 5e (AC 16 rather than 20 for plate+shield), and attack bonuses on monsters and martial character scale even faster. This means that by level 5 or so almost no-one is going to be missing their attacks, and the barbarian's defensive feature (half damage during rage) is waaaaaay better than the fighter's options for slightly better AC.

How would you recommend fixing that? The system looks pretty OK apart from this one detail.

Don't forget fighters can take the protection style for an extra +1 AC, and there is no limit on Dex bonus to AC in LFG. Barb's tend to allocate their high stats to Str and Con, and Fighters Str and Dex. Also fighters get their parry ability at 5th.

[Psikerlord]

Adventure Framework #33 is out: Folds Between Worlds

https://www.patreon.com/posts/33-folds-between-15959080

[Psikerlord]

Two terrific reviews for the Midlands Low Magic Sandbox Setting:

http://halflingsluck.blogspot.com.au/2017/12/review-midlands-low-magic-sandbox.html

https://classicrpgrealms.blogspot.com.au/2017/12/low-fantasy-gaming-in-midlands.html

[Psikerlord]

Mini adventure #34 is out: Carnifexum

https://lowfantasygaming.com/2018/01/01/carnifexum/

[Psikerlord]

Adventure Framework #35 is out: Hive of the Mudmen :D
https://lowfantasygaming.com/2018/01/18/hive-of-the-mudmen/

[Psikerlord]

Blackpowder Toolkit now available :) https://lowfantasygaming.com/2018/07/16/blackpowder-toolkit/

[Psikerlord]

Some Diseases & Parasites for your game ... https://lowfantasygaming.com/2018/10/07/disease-parasites/

[EggKookoo]

Hi all, Steve G here the author of LFG. More than happy to answer any questions :)

No questions but man I want to jump on the bandwagon and say how awesome this is. I've only scanned it (classes mostly) but I for one appreciate the amount of effort you put into it. In terms of feedback I love the 1e vibe of the artwork and I like the general approach to the concept. I don't have the bandwidth right now but if the opportunity comes up I'll grab some friends to run through it.

[Lacuna Caster]

Huh. ...I should probably check this out.

[Psikerlord]

No questions but man I want to jump on the bandwagon and say how awesome this is. I've only scanned it (classes mostly) but I for one appreciate the amount of effort you put into it. In terms of feedback I love the 1e vibe of the artwork and I like the general approach to the concept. I don't have the bandwidth right now but if the opportunity comes up I'll grab some friends to run through it.

Hey thanks CB! Love to hear how it goes if you do get to run an adventure :D

[Psikerlord]

A question, have you considered doing a version of the book with the extra classes in it? I'm considering actually plonking down the money for a softcover version if I can work out if Lulu prints copies in Europe (not paying for shipping from America), but if there's a version with the additional classes in it in the works I might hold off on it, as I'm certainly considering using at least the Artificer (what made me consider LFG as potentially worthwhile to run) and Ranger. The monk I'm less sure about, and will depend on the exact tone I end up with. Even just a second PoD book with the extra classes and some other stuff (maybe an alternative form of magic that anybody can use for a price?) would be interesting. No clue if you've had the interest to justify that though.

I know this is extremely old, but just thought I would say, a "Deluxe" edition of LFG is in the pipeline: full colour, all the classes plus new cultist/cleric, some toolkits material, expanded exploration rules, example unique features, and some other bits and pieces. More formal news/info coming in Nov/Dec. I'm going through re-reading all the old forums I can find looking for mechanics to tweak, etc, based on feedback.

[Knaight]

I know this is extremely old, but just thought I would say, a "Deluxe" edition of LFG is in the pipeline: full colour, all the classes plus new cultist/cleric, some toolkits material, expanded exploration rules, example unique features, and some other bits and pieces. More formal news/info coming in Nov/Dec. I'm going through re-reading all the old forums I can find looking for mechanics to tweak, etc, based on feedback.

Will the cultist/cleric emphasize the cultist side? One of the things I really liked about LFG was the way the magic user explicitly didn't separate out arcane and divine magic, instead taking a note from legends where mages are mage-priests as often as not.

[Psikerlord]

Will the cultist/cleric emphasize the cultist side? One of the things I really liked about LFG was the way the magic user explicitly didn't separate out arcane and divine magic, instead taking a note from legends where mages are mage-priests as often as not.

The cultist/cleric emphasizes their magic comes from a god or other supernatural entity. They must obey their cult's tenets in order to gain Favour, which allows them to use blessings without fear of Divine Rebuke. If they attempt to invoke blessings without favour, and they fail the Will check, they roll on the Divine Rebuke table (a kind of "divine" flavour dark & dangerous magic table). Certain effects on the DR table can only be removed by performing a Rite of Atonement (and whilst subject to such a rebuke, the cultist cannot gain favour). Cultist blessings are similar to your traditional cleric/paladin abilities (heal, smite, turn, etc) plus each god grants its follower a themed ability and/or spells.

The magic user spell list remains the same (well, in fact I have renamed all the spells similar to https://lowfantasygaming.com/2017/02/14/renamed-spells-for-the-midlands/ )

Yeah when I wrote LFG I imagined a cleric type character would simply be a Magic User. But of all the things most requested, a cleric class was it. So I've tried to make something that fills that role, with a strong "patron" theme/code, and quasi unpredictable magic, that can sit along the MU.

[Anonymouswizard]

I know this is extremely old, but just thought I would say, a "Deluxe" edition of LFG is in the pipeline: full colour, all the classes plus new cultist/cleric, some toolkits material, expanded exploration rules, example unique features, and some other bits and pieces. More formal news/info coming in Nov/Dec. I'm going through re-reading all the old forums I can find looking for mechanics to tweak, etc, based on feedback.

Awesome, glad I never got around to ordering it back then now :smallredface: not that I mean to say the 'classic' edition isn't worth the money of course :smalltongue:


The cultist/cleric emphasizes their magic comes from a god or other supernatural entity. They must obey their cult's tenets in order to gain Favour, which allows them to use blessings without fear of Divine Rebuke. If they attempt to invoke blessings without favour, and they fail the Will check, they roll on the Divine Rebuke table (a kind of "divine" flavour dark & dangerous magic table). Certain effects on the DR table can only be removed by performing a Rite of Atonement (and whilst subject to such a rebuke, the cultist cannot gain favour). Cultist blessings are similar to your traditional cleric/paladin abilities (heal, smite, turn, etc) plus each god grants its follower a themed ability and/or spells.

The magic user spell list remains the same (well, in fact I have renamed all the spells similar to https://lowfantasygaming.com/2017/02/14/renamed-spells-for-the-midlands/ )

Yeah when I wrote LFG I imagined a cleric type character would simply be a Magic User. But of all the things most requested, a cleric class was it. So I've tried to make something that fills that role, with a strong "patron" theme/code, and quasi unpredictable magic, that can sit along the MU.

Sounds closer to the D&D Warlock than Cleric, which I'm greatful for. I've never liked the push a lot of gamers have to put an Arcane/Divine magic split in every game, when a lot of the time in myths and fiction there's either no difference or magic is inherently undivine (and tha's as far as I'll go).

I'd say that the Cultist sounds more like the kind of magic-user I'd allow in a low fantasy setting, always having to make sure their patron is happy, magic being risky if they aren't in good standing, and a good dark 'petty gods' theming. I love it, I kind of wish that this was the original magic-user class instead of a new addition.

[Psikerlord]

Awesome, glad I never got around to ordering it back then now :smallredface: not that I mean to say the 'classic' edition isn't worth the money of course :smalltongue:



Sounds closer to the D&D Warlock than Cleric, which I'm greatful for. I've never liked the push a lot of gamers have to put an Arcane/Divine magic split in every game, when a lot of the time in myths and fiction there's either no difference or magic is inherently undivine (and tha's as far as I'll go).

I'd say that the Cultist sounds more like the kind of magic-user I'd allow in a low fantasy setting, always having to make sure their patron is happy, magic being risky if they aren't in good standing, and a good dark 'petty gods' theming. I love it, I kind of wish that this was the original magic-user class instead of a new addition.

Yes there's definitely a side of Warlock in there, and it didnt occur to me till you raised it, but you could easily remove Magic User from the game and use Cultist as the only caster class.

[Psikerlord]

The latest iteration of the Cultist class for LFG :)
9 page PDF, 2 versions - colour and B&W (different art).
https://lowfantasygaming.com/2018/11/06/low-fantasy-gaming-the-cultist/

[Psikerlord]

LFG Deluxe Edition is coming!

Just a quick heads up that LFG Deluxe Edition is in the pipeline, and we have a small Kickstarter planned for December to raise funds for some custom art pieces by Daniel Comerci, Dean Spencer and Matt Forsyth (don't know them? Google them! Be amazed). 95% of the book is already written and laid out; link below to the draft contents for an inkling as to what's inside :D

We're planning two versions: one full colour, one black & white with line art (similar to the recent Cultist doc – same page numbers/layout etc, just different art). PDF and Print on Demand. 100% compatible with original LFG (well, page number references will change).

More info soon!

https://lowfantasygaming.com/2018/11/09/low-fantasy-gaming-deluxe-edition/

[Anonymouswizard]

The latest iteration of the Cultist class for LFG :)
9 page PDF, 2 versions - colour and B&W (different art).
https://lowfantasygaming.com/2018/11/06/low-fantasy-gaming-the-cultist/

Well. comparing it to the magic-user:
-Blessings are simpler than spells and their chance to fail if your god isn't happy appeals to me. Plus the regenerate on a short rest as well as only having one slot type, which is easier on the resource management.
-Sacred Lore is a cool ability that
-Child of the Gods is a nice little ability, although Attuned Mind is probably better I like the simplicity.
-Actually getting a feature at 5th level! I know it's because the cultist is less magical than the magic-user, but it does feel nice to be able to melee when you're conserving your magic.
-Speaking of being able to melee, Second Attack is always a nice thing to have.
-At 10th level both get the ability to build a structure. But considering that this is a standard thing for everybody I can't really complain.

I really do think I like the Cultist, and that I'll be using it in place of the Magic-User


LFG Deluxe Edition is coming!

Just a quick heads up that LFG Deluxe Edition is in the pipeline, and we have a small Kickstarter planned for December to raise funds for some custom art pieces by Daniel Comerci, Dean Spencer and Matt Forsyth (don't know them? Google them! Be amazed). 95% of the book is already written and laid out; link below to the draft contents for an inkling as to what's inside :D

We're planning two versions: one full colour, one black & white with line art (similar to the recent Cultist doc – same page numbers/layout etc, just different art). PDF and Print on Demand. 100% compatible with original LFG (well, page number references will change).

More info soon!

https://lowfantasygaming.com/2018/11/09/low-fantasy-gaming-deluxe-edition/

Really looking forward to this, especially the line art version (I just prefer my gaming books to use it, for some reason). How will the prices compare to the current PoD versions? Because if the softcover is too expensive (>$12) I might pick up the current rulebook now and get the deluxe edition when I have a proper job.

[Psikerlord]

Adventure Framework #50 is out: Night at the Green Goblin
https://lowfantasygaming.com/2018/11...-green-goblin/

[Psikerlord]

Well. comparing it to the magic-user:
-Blessings are simpler than spells and their chance to fail if your god isn't happy appeals to me. Plus the regenerate on a short rest as well as only having one slot type, which is easier on the resource management.
-Sacred Lore is a cool ability that
-Child of the Gods is a nice little ability, although Attuned Mind is probably better I like the simplicity.
-Actually getting a feature at 5th level! I know it's because the cultist is less magical than the magic-user, but it does feel nice to be able to melee when you're conserving your magic.
-Speaking of being able to melee, Second Attack is always a nice thing to have.
-At 10th level both get the ability to build a structure. But considering that this is a standard thing for everybody I can't really complain.

I really do think I like the Cultist, and that I'll be using it in place of the Magic-User



Really looking forward to this, especially the line art version (I just prefer my gaming books to use it, for some reason). How will the prices compare to the current PoD versions? Because if the softcover is too expensive (>$12) I might pick up the current rulebook now and get the deluxe edition when I have a proper job.

Glad you like what you see for the Cultist! I hope it will be possible for parties to take both that and a MU, or just one (or neither), depending on table preferences/setting.

Ah hmm for better or worse, Deluxe Edition will be more expensive than original LFG softcover (which was pretty much print at cost +$1). I've got art to pay for! ;)

[Psikerlord]

Low Fantasy Gaming Deluxe Ed Kickstarter is on track to start in one week! More details here: https://lowfantasygaming.com/2018/12/03/low-fantasy-gaming-kickstarter-update/

[Psikerlord]

Deluxe Edition Kickstarter is now LIVE!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/lowfantasygaming/low-fantasy-gaming-deluxe-edition?ref=created_projects

[Anonymouswizard]

Deluxe Edition Kickstarter is now LIVE!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/lowfantasygaming/low-fantasy-gaming-deluxe-edition?ref=created_projects

I'll have to see if I have money left after Christmas (and if my new bank card actually arrives), $40+shipping is actually a good deal for a black and white book+PDF.

[Psikerlord]

I'll have to see if I have money left after Christmas (and if my new bank card actually arrives), $40+shipping is actually a good deal for a black and white book+PDF.

Cheers AW, and have a great break either way!

[Psikerlord]

Free Foe Generator for LFG by Maker's Forge Games!
https://lowfantasygaming.com/2018/12/16/foe-generator-by-makers-forge-games/

[Psikerlord]

New LFG Logo!
https://lowfantasygaming.com/2018/12/24/new-low-fantasy-gaming-logo/

[Anonymouswizard]

Aaaaaaand backed (well, about six hours ago, but I've been afk since then)!

Just the pdfs and hardcover codes at the moment, but as that came to about £11 I might upgrade to the Midlands bundle. I'm also loving the new LFG logo, I think it really fits the style of the game!

Also, to think that just two years ago I was probably one of the bigger critics of the game. While I'm still hoping the official skill system has been changed to roll over, I'll be happy even if the rules haven't changed. Although I'm hoping for slightly better art for the Magic-User this time, never did like the old picture as I thought it didn't hit strange and mysteriousness in the right ways.

[Psikerlord]

Aaaaaaand backed (well, about six hours ago, but I've been afk since then)!

Just the pdfs and hardcover codes at the moment, but as that came to about £11 I might upgrade to the Midlands bundle. I'm also loving the new LFG logo, I think it really fits the style of the game!

Also, to think that just two years ago I was probably one of the bigger critics of the game. While I'm still hoping the official skill system has been changed to roll over, I'll be happy even if the rules haven't changed. Although I'm hoping for slightly better art for the Magic-User this time, never did like the old picture as I thought it didn't hit strange and mysteriousness in the right ways.

Haha welcome on board AW, very glad to have you! Ahhh the system is still roll under, but the Magic User art is greatly improved. I hope you'll like it :D

[Psikerlord]

Kickstarter Last 48 Hours!

Now's a great time to jump in with a bonus Midlands Hex Map file, GM Screen files & Character Sheet files!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/lowfantasygaming/low-fantasy-gaming-deluxe-edition?ref=ebtsax

[TheBrewerZ]

Thank you for show me this little gem. Can't wait to go home and dive into it.

[Psikerlord]

Thank you for show me this little gem. Can't wait to go home and dive into it.

Hope you like it!

[Anonymouswizard]

Well really looking forward to when the funds clear and I can have a look at the pdfs, as I'm probably going to be running a session zero shortly after that happens I might offer to run LFG instead of a Middle Earth game, it'll actually likely be easier on my players and will make the one who likes DIY elements very happy.

[Psikerlord]

Well really looking forward to when the funds clear and I can have a look at the pdfs, as I'm probably going to be running a session zero shortly after that happens I might offer to run LFG instead of a Middle Earth game, it'll actually likely be easier on my players and will make the one who likes DIY elements very happy.

PDFs are well on track for 31 Jan! :D

[Anonymouswizard]

PDFs are well on track for 31 Jan! :D

Tomorrow? Annoyingly it has to be the day I'm at work, not the day where I'm free to peruse :smalltongue:

[Psikerlord]

Hey all,

For those who might be interested, a quick update on Low Fantasy Gaming Deluxe subsequent to the Jan 2019 Kickstarter.

(1) PDFs (colour and b&w version) are available via DTRPG (everything below is DTRPG - https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/265388/Low-Fantasy-Gaming-Deluxe-Edition )
(2) Hardcovers are available. Softcovers in the works, expected in August.
(3) GM Screen PDF available (free).
(4) Character Sheet (colour, b&w and form fillable PDF) available (free).
(5) 3 x free starter adventures (free; #13 Gift of the Silent God, #25 Revelry in Northgate and #40 Call of the Colossus).
(6) Midlands Hex Map available (keyed and unkeyed, hex and no hex).

Presently we're at work on Adventure Frameworks Compilation #1 (basically all the post Midlands B&W adventures, about 22 or so, put into a book, waiting on final softcover proof), and an LFG Expansion book (approx 100 new monsters, 40 unique magical items, greatly expanded Downtime rules, and a "mysterious magic" table (a less "dark" but just as dangerous version of the Dark & Dangerous Magic table, for settings which might prefer such). Not sure what else might make it in as yet.