Using a scythe?

[danielxcutter]

Yeah, I know that reach weapons are more optimal, but why not?

Does anyone have an idea how to make a build that uses a scythe? It doesn't have to be heavily optimized, just good enough for typical play.

A tripper build sounds most optimal, I guess. Maybe Barbarian or Psychic Warrior?

It is a two handed weapon, though, so it's possible to just use it to beat face I think. The damage die aren't too bad and it can deal slashing or piercing damage.

I suppose it's mostly like a halberd? There are a few differences, but they share lots of qualities.

[Vizzerdrix]

Isnt the accepted use as a finisher for the sleep spell?

[Geddy2112]

It is not bad for a 2 handed weapon, and you hit the major selling feats. With a 4x crit, improving the crit range with keen or improved critical is good. If you can auto crit(from a coup de grace) then it is one of your best options. Being good at tripping gives options in combat.

[danielxcutter]

Isnt the accepted use as a finisher for the sleep spell?

No, that is not what I mean, and you know it. :smallannoyed:


It is not bad for a 2 handed weapon, and you hit the major selling feats. With a 4x crit, improving the crit range with keen or improved critical is good. If you can auto crit(from a coup de grace) then it is one of your best options. Being good at tripping gives options in combat.

Well... okay, I guess. Not sure if Keen is that good though.

[Zaq]

You've pretty much got it already. Any build that uses a two-handed weapon that doesn't need any specific features (finessable, tripping, reach, etc.) can get away with using a scythe. So if you were using a greatsword or greataxe or something, you can sub in a scythe with minimal (if any) loss of functionality.

Since it is a fairly generic weapon (x4 crit is nasty, but not so nasty that you're likely to build around it unless you're only using it for CdG, which you already shot down), it's hard to build for using a scythe specifically, but it isn't actually that much worse than a traditional greatsword. Just be aware that it's not going to do much that's special for you.

[danielxcutter]

You've pretty much got it already. Any build that uses a two-handed weapon that doesn't need any specific features (finessable, tripping, reach, etc.) can get away with using a scythe. So if you were using a greatsword or greataxe or something, you can sub in a scythe with minimal (if any) loss of functionality.

Since it is a fairly generic weapon (x4 crit is nasty, but not so nasty that you're likely to build around it unless you're only using it for CdG, which you already shot down), it's hard to build for using a scythe specifically, but it isn't actually that much worse than a traditional greatsword. Just be aware that it's not going to do much that's special for you.

Ah, that's good to hear. I see.

[Thurbane]

Crit Fisher or a Coup-de-grace build would make best use of a scythe.

Traditionally Crit Fishers use a high threat range weapon rather than a high crit multiplier weapon, however.

Bless Weapon for auto crit confirmation on evil creatures?

The Maiming weapon ability from MH was pretty amazing with a scythe (roll 1d8 to determine your crit multiplier instead of just being set at x4), but it got nerfed in the MIC update.

Cleric that gets the War domain and a god with scythe: casting Extended Heartache (BoVD). On a failed save, target is helpless for 2 round. Cast and move up, then coup-de-grace on next round.

Other feats for a Coup-de-grace build: Death Blow (CAd) - coup-de-grace as a standard action; Harvester of Souls (EE) - makes it difficult to raise anything you kill with a coup-de-grace, and you get temporary HP.

[Waker]

A Soulborn using the Mauling Gauntlets soulmeld is also quite good for Trip builds. Multiclassing it with PsyWarrior might be a good idea for Expansion to deal with the weakness of size limitations on tripping.

[Zaq]

A Soulborn using the Mauling Gauntlets soulmeld is also quite good for Trip builds. Multiclassing it with PsyWarrior might be a good idea for Expansion to deal with the weakness of size limitations on tripping.

Unless I'm wildly misreading things, a scythe isn't a tripping weapon.

EDIT: Turns out I simply don't know how to read! The scythe is indeed a tripping weapon.

[danielxcutter]

Unless I'm wildly misreading things, a scythe isn't a tripping weapon.

From the SRD:


A scythe can be used to make trip attacks. If you are tripped during your own trip attempt, you can drop the scythe to avoid being tripped.

[Zaq]

From the SRD:

Huh. I looked specifically for that and managed to roll a 1 on my check. I stand corrected.

[danielxcutter]

Huh. I looked specifically for that and managed to roll a 1 on my check. I stand corrected.

So are halberds, BTW. In fact, the two weapons are so similar, you could substitute one for the other unless you're using weapon-specific feats like Haft Strike.

[barakaka]

All cleric all the time man. Casting Sense Weakness (MoE pg 101, cleric 2), auto-confirms a single hit within 24 hours. And if you cast and expend Surge of Fortune (SpC pg 129, cleric 5), then you can treat your next attack roll as a nat 20.


dress like a cultist
preload Sense Weakness earlier that day
cast sanctuary at the start of combat
cast surge of fortune
wade through the battle with complete and utter focus like you're the grim reaper 'imself
slay your enemy with a nat20 auto confirmed


If it's a boss, then buff yourself with some other stuff first. Power attack. Maybe buy some burst weapon enchantments. Brute Gauntlets for the morale bonus on your one strike.

Let me know if this helps.

Actually I might also add these 2 links for your reference if you go the spell setup route.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?321514-Boosting-crit-confirmation-rolls
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?246279-3-5-Non-Core-cleric-spells

[danielxcutter]

All cleric all the time man. Casting Sense Weakness (MoE pg 101, cleric 2), auto-confirms a single hit within 24 hours. And if you cast and expend Surge of Fortune (SpC pg 129, cleric 5), then you can treat your next attack roll as a nat 20.


dress like a cultist
preload Sense Weakness earlier that day
cast sanctuary at the start of combat
cast surge of fortune
wade through the battle with complete and utter focus like you're the grim reaper 'imself
slay your enemy with a nat20 auto confirmed


If it's a boss, then buff yourself with some other stuff first. Power attack. Maybe buy some burst weapon enchantments. Brute Gauntlets for the morale bonus on your one strike.

Let me know if this helps.

Actually I might also add these 2 links for your reference if you go the spell setup route.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?321514-Boosting-crit-confirmation-rolls
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?246279-3-5-Non-Core-cleric-spells

Not bad. It's not too optimal, but it's an interesting idea.

[barakaka]

A lot of DMs wouldn't want optimal when the player can already one shot a boss or 2 per day. In any case though, you can go the standard Cleric Zilla route, because all this requires is a scythe and those 2 spells from the cleric list. If you want more than that, there's always Ur-Priest or the divine anima mage adaptation (bind karsus to use wand of nerve skitter, and get warning on your scythe).

Flip side, you could go more melee with the Ordained Champion PrC (you'd have to get Weapon Focus in something other than a scythe, or get your DM to refluff). That'd easily push your scythe damage to acceptable levels.

Lastly, there's the RKV route if you're looking for maneuvers and swift action abuse. Some of the white raven maneuvers grant flat damage boosts (works well with Valorous and crit).

[flappeercraft]

Crit Fisher or a Coup-de-grace build would make best use of a scythe.

Traditionally Crit Fishers use a high threat range weapon rather than a high crit multiplier weapon, however.

Bless Weapon for auto crit confirmation on evil creatures?



I would replace Bless Weapon with Dolorous Blow (SpC)

[Crake]

Clearly scythes were meant to be used on cleric/blackguards with ubercharger feats, corrupt weapon (the blackguard's evil version of bless weapon) and surge of fortune to automatically deal hundreds of damage before word of recalling away.

[ShurikVch]

How about the Weapon Master PrC (from the Sword and Fist) with scythe as a weapon of choice?
If you make it kaorti ribbon (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031014a) scythe, you then may also use it with Trip Attack of Exotic Weapon Master; Exotic Attack and Strange Strike from Fighter-Exoticist (Dragon #310)
Or crystal scythe and Psychic Weapon Master (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827d)

[martixy]

Kaorti resin talenta sharrash anyone?
Reach, 19-20/x4.

Note that it got errata'd to x2, which is why resin.

Get shorten grip and you threaten and attack within non-reach range as well.

[Anxe]

I ran a Barbarian 1/Cleric X who used a scythe. Maxed out Strength and just went to town with the occasional high crit. Wasn't optimal by any means, but lots of fun.

[barakaka]

How about the Weapon Master PrC (from the Sword and Fist) with scythe as a weapon of choice?
If you make it kaorti ribbon (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031014a) scythe, you then may also use it with Trip Attack of Exotic Weapon Master; Exotic Attack and Strange Strike from Fighter-Exoticist (Dragon #310)
Or crystal scythe and Psychic Weapon Master (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827d)

Wait, none of those abilities on the Psychic Weapon Master have a type. Are they extraordinary? Does that mean you could use Increased Multiplier several times for a single hit by RAW? Clearly RAI is saying otherwise, but still. Could be fun with the Sense Weakness + Surge of Fortune cleric.

[martixy]

Wait, none of those abilities on the Psychic Weapon Master have a type. Are they extraordinary? Does that mean you could use Increased Multiplier several times for a single hit by RAW? Clearly RAI is saying otherwise, but still. Could be fun with the Sense Weakness + Surge of Fortune cleric.

Technically, no type IS a type. They're called natural abilities. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm)

Though out of these at least Psionic Damage should be Su, due to the way it works(the ability to invest Power Points).
Notice that bonus feats for classes aren't Ex, or Su. They're nothing - natural abilities. Same with Rogue's Sneak Attack or Trapfinding.
PWM's Increased multiplier would probably be Ex, but everything else(the bonus feats) shouldn't have a type.

[ShurikVch]

Also, instead of kaorti ribbon, you may try to use heavy metal scythe (alchemical gold or platinum) - in the Magic of Faerûn; instead of crit. multiplier change, it will do increased damage - most likely, 2d6 for medium scythe; it will cost +7000 gp

[Thurbane]

Disciple of Dispater specifically stacks it's increased threat range with Improved Critical, but as a 3.0 source, may require DM approval for it to still work this way.

It won't combine with Kaorti resin, as the weapon needs to be made of steel/iron.

[Zombulian]

Not bad. It's not too optimal, but it's an interesting idea.

With a 1-shotting build like that you could also tack on the Snatch Trophy, Bloodsoaked Intimidate, and Mutilator feats for extra gruesomeness.

[martixy]

Disciple of Dispater specifically stacks it's increased threat range with Improved Critical, but as a 3.0 source, may require DM approval for it to still work this way.

It won't combine with Kaorti resin, as the weapon needs to be made of steel/iron.

Okay, it specifically stacks, but in what game is that even gonna fly?

[danielxcutter]

Okay, it specifically stacks, but in what game is that gonna fly exactly?

Actually, I don't think you'll get a huge crit range with a scythe... a falchion, however...