The Dwarf Bard Arcane Trickster.

[Thisguy_]

Because it's late enough at night for this kind of talk, and because I love nothing more than to optimize strange character concepts, I requisition the aid of the playground for the following reason.


On paper, the greatest AT that ever lived or ever will be is an elf wizard trickster. The worst in all the history of all the worlds is a dwarf bard trickster.

(This (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IZBcQbZlN5psPppnuQvOO3xJ5P84tI6UNPiQz5_jEGc/edit), of course, is strongly suggested reading if you have been living under a rock and never found it.)

I want to play him. I want to be the rebel of the family, which is to say, a slightly less staunch traditionalist than is traditional. The black sheep dwarf with the roguish charm! The musical spellcaster with the... supposed all-around deficit in abilities compared to other bards.

This thing which is both a cry for aid and a challenge is made with these things in mind: It has to have bard in it, and it has to be an Arcane Trickster. It must be a Dwarf, and most importantly, it must fulfill a useful function of the Arcane Trickster in a unique way! I'm looking for any piece of advice you can offer to reach this end goal.

I ask you, playground, to help me build this monstrosity! Unleash your dark power! Can it be salvaged?

EDIT: Revised a bit, and for clarity, I need sleep, but I intend to work with you guys here towards this end goal.

[Florian]

So, basically Dwarf Sorcerer (Empyreal), one level Rogue and Accomplished Sneak Attacker, VMC Bard? :P

[Thisguy_]

I must admit to being at the very tail-end of my ability to usefully think today, and also to not really understanding the variant multiclassing rules. I'm gonna have to say that once I get some rest, those should probably be one of the first things to look at and absorb, since they seem to solve a lot of problems in a lot of places.

Is variant multiclassing assumed disallowed until DM approval? If so, what sorts of alternatives would you suggest in order to shore up the weaknesses so inherent in selecting Bard as your basis for AT? I'm interested, in fact, regardless of whether VMC is a near-universal solution - what feats, or tiny bits of class levels, or traits, etc, can you think of that might provide otherwise-lacking synergy?

EDIT: Also, clever - working with the Dwarf's strengths instead of fighting them. I admit to having yet to really dive into this, but this is a good early base to work from, and has a fair chance of finding its way into the final build. Good night.

[grarrrg]

Quick/random stuff:
Sandman (and a few others I'm sure, why does the Bard have, like, 30 archetypes? while other classes have maybe 20 tops? anywho...)
Sandman (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/bard/archetypes/paizo-bard-archetypes/sandman) Bard can enter Arcane Trickster without the need for a third class. One of the downsides is you don't get your 2nd Sneak Die until level 10, so no getting Arcane Trickster goodies any earlier than 11.

Accomplished Sneak Attacker (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/accomplished-sneak-attacker/) can help out here. A Sandman could enter AT at level 6 with this feat taken at level 5.

VMC Rogue (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/character-advancement#TOC-Core-Classes) is slower option, and it eats more feats, and the first Sneak die doesn't show up until level 7, with the 2nd die at level 11. But it does scale better, and provide a couple more benefits though.

A Sandman 10/AT 10 VMC Rogue will have +11d6 Sneak at level 20 (Accomplished Sneak Attacker has a restriction and will not help here, not that you have the feats to spare anyway).

For a few more damaging spell options, have a link (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?296803-Pathfinder-mini-guide-Casting-spells-from-other-lists).

Finally, Dwarf Bards have a special Favored Class option of reducing Arcane Failure in Medium Armor by 1% per level. Combine with Mithral and/or Arcane Armor feats and you can easily get Medium Arcane failure to 0%.

[Florian]

and also to not really understanding the variant multiclassing rules.

VMC is easy to explain. During character creation, you can decide to use the regular 10 feats progression or use the VMC progression for 5 feats and 5 class features (simplified).
For this, you pick a class and also count as that class.

It´s more or less created to solve a certain problem, namely that using regular multiclassing, some concepts can simply not be done without having very weak characters as a result. The galant Paladin? Paladin VMC Bard. The pious Fighter? Fighter VMC Paladin, and so on.

[Treblain]

A unique entry option is Bard 4/Snakebite Striker Brawler 1 with Accomplished Sneak Attack. Bards can wield a heavy shield with no spell failure and going unarmed lets you keep a free hand for somatic components; a big shield and a big fist are more dwarfish than using a rapier and buckler. You can focus on STR, CON, and CHA and dump INT. The brawler level and a monk's robe alone get you up to 1d8 unarmed which isn't bad, and a heavy spiked shield can even be used with brawler's flurry if you take a second brawler level. There aren't that many useful bard archetypes since you miss most of the class, but Savage Skald (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/bard/archetypes/paizo-bard-archetypes/savage-skald/)is better than nothing.

Bladed Dash (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/bladed-dash/)is a spell that can get you into a flanking position and attack which can be hard with the dwarf's speed. The bard spell Ki Arrow is a fallback option for sneak attacks at range and can let you use any effects from your unarmed strikes at range. Belier's Bite (http://archivesofnethys.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Belier%27s%20Bite), for instance, adds bleed damage to all unarmed strikes. Bards have plenty of sneaky spells in general. A bard spell trick I've been dying to try: Jester's Jaunt (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/j/jester-s-jaunt) + Spell-Storing Armor: something big and scary attacks you, you teleport them away. Especially hilarious if the DM was in the middle of launching a full attack, a grab, etc.

The various Stunning Fist-esque feats scale by character level but probably aren't worth it because they would have low saves without a good WIS score. The Snake Style feat chain might be good because it uses Sense Motive checks for AC that can be replaced with Perform with Versatile Performance. Arcane Strike is an option. Dwarf racial feats aren't that helpful but Steel Soul (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/steel-soul) is nice.

The main problem with all this is that your BAB declines sharply the more levels of Arcane Trickster, so any combat build suffers, and TWF or Power Attack make it worse. But you can try to make up for it with attack-buffing from Inspire Courage, Heroism, Invisibility, and using Timely Inspiration/Gallant Inspiration on your own missed attacks, plus whatever items and feats you can get. You can always fall back to contributing through casting.

____


Another non-rogue option to pair with Bard is Ninja since it gets sneak attack and gets a CHA-based ki pool with swift action invisibility at level 2, but I don't have any specific ideas for it.

Any way you do it, finding a way to get Acid Splash or other ranged touch damaging spells you can sneak attack with is a good idea. Cracked Orange Prism ioun stone works, I think.

[Thisguy_]

I've pored through an incredible amount of junk (as one does), and come up with a couple of little things mostly that just work with what I've been presented with, here.

I see an option to, upon scoring the second sneak attack in a round, apply a critical feat, which more or less I'd say is best used to fatigue a foe for a permanent -1 AC (as far as the combat we're in is concerned) and -1 damage provided it's using STR or DEX to deal damage and not casting, which is common enough amongst monsters. It costs enough feats that it's not coming online until much later, though, and I don't see it as being as much worth it as other options.

There's also the fact that if I stack the Dwarf's special Bard FC option with Arcane Armor training and Mastery, by level 20 I'll be wearing up to 40% failure chance armor and blowing all my swift actions on not giving a ****. That sounds pretty cool to start with, so let's see what it nets us by messing with materials and so on. Full plate's ASF is 35%, so it doesn't even need to be Mithral by 20th level and it'll still work just fine. That means our options open to pretty much every other special material, like Adamantine, which is the first thing that comes to mind - DR 3 doesn't hurt. Ever. I'd say Bulette armor would be a thematically appropriate choice, but unfortunately, we're optimizing, and for some reason Bulette armor grants nothing to its wearer over leather.

Another armor material option would be Dreamstone, increasing the Dwarf in question's saves against magic by 4. That's solid, and may stack up nicely against DR considering we're more of a back-row caster at this point - sneak attack is nice, but not everything about us by the time we're using the armor, of course, which allows us to be a bit more flexible and inhabit the back row with our wizard buddy sometimes. Even when not strictly on the back row, saves versus magic happen. I feel, though, for an aggressive Bard AT, Adamantine may be a better option, unless we're really stacking up our saves, which I suspect might eat the rest of our feats but gives us access to the fairly nice Dwarf option of saving against magic at even more +4s. When you consider this synergy, if we're building for this, we might be the only Arcane Trickster who's comparably immune to save-based magic effects versus our non-Dwarf peers. Even without Steel Soul, of course, we're already saving at +6 against magic due to being Dwarvish.

Noqual is similar and inferior to Dreamstone.

I feel obligated to mention fire-forged steel, as it IS dwarvish in the default setting of Golarion. However, I admit it's simply not as nice as DR 3/– or +8 against magic.

All that said, I feel the most uniquely dwarvish choice here is to say no to enemy spellcasters. +8 against magic seems worth the feats, so let's look at what it costs us. If we enter AT at 11th to minimize the feat costs, and lose out on a rather lot of Sneak Attack due to not doing VMC Rogue, we have the standard 10 feats to work with. I note that the 10% mark grants medium armor proficiency on its own at level 10 Bard, so, we select, in order: Steel Soul (1), Arcane Armor Training (3), Anything we like (5), and Arcane Armor Mastery (7). This turned out to be fairly easy to do, so let's try filling that Anything we Like slot with something - I'd say my favored choice would be Lingering Performance, so we can performance-juggle more than one buff, which seems like a thing to do with our limited rounds - say "**** it," burn the candle at both ends, and squeeze extra juice out of it.

Trying that all again with VMC Rogue for more Sneak dice, we get feats at 1, 5, 9, 13, and 17. So we pick, again in order:

Steel Soul (1), Arcane Armor Training (5) (Total ASF reduction 15%, giving us access to certain shields - yay!), Lingering Performance (9), Heavy Armor Proficiency (13), and Arcane Armor Mastery (17). We must stick in Bard until 10 in order to gain the FC benefits fast enough for both Heavy Armor and Arcane Armor Mastery. However, we now throw away our shield by 20th level and have become as follows:

Dwarf Bard (Sandman) 10/AT 10 VMC Rogue. Sneak Attack dice: 11d6, Arcane Spell Failure reduction: 40%. If we start with STR 10 DEX 16 CON 12 INT 7 WIS 9 CHA 15, we can end our career with 26 CHA and still have okay enough DEX to hit... sometimes. We're going to have to offset this by attacking whilst flanking for the rest of our lives, and trying to hit ourselves with the loose buff if attacking is what we really want to do.

Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is about our saves. Even though we had to dump Wisdom for a more reasonable casting stat, we've got a +20 save versus Will against magical effects, which is pretty good. Against specifically magic, our Reflex save is even nicer: it's a +23. Fortitude will be our worst, at +15 against magic. Not counting magic effects, our saves are drastically lower, obviously: +7, +15, +12. Still - not too shabby.

Our spellcasting never advances past 6th level spells, because we're a Bard, and that's how we do. We end up with the following spell slot loadout, in order: 7/7/7/7/6/6. Fair numbers there, considering we get to buff allies with our performances. Since we have lingering performance, we can maintain two different performances plus a buff spell if we precast our buff. That leaves us on a round-two total of one buff spell and two performances, which is nothing to sneeze at. Our Performance rounds end up at 30, which is quite enough to keep up with the spells (Performance rounds update when your permanent CHA rises, right...?). Not too bad - we are giving up the last three spell levels another Trickster would be using, but we don't play anything like them.

Our low INT means 4 skill points per level. We are no longer a skill monkey, but we're keeping pace with... a smart fighter. Oh, well - we'll stick with Perception, our chosen Perform, skill(s), and whatever we happen to want.

WBL says we can easy afford dreamstone heavy armor, +6 to casting stat, and a couple other things.

All in all, not shabby. Any suggestions as to where to go from here? Perhaps we should start over and look at the concept from another angle?

[Thisguy_]

Alright. I'm sorry to double post, but that last post was long, stream-of-consciousness, and took a long time to write out because I was looking at stuff while writing it - and all in all, I'm scared to edit it.

I pulled 40% ASF out of my ass, I notice - it's actually a 30% ASF reduction, leaving us with slightly more limited options. In my opinion, our best option is now to get a feat slot free and stick to Chainmail instead of plate. Solid - this lets us buy, for example, Stone Singer - a fair Dwarvish option here.

As for the Brawler option, I like the thought of beating the crap outta somebody with one hand, beating the crap out of them some more with the shield in your other hand, all whilst singing a song about how much they suck - and incorporating the phrase "SNEAK ATTACK" into it all.

Frankly, though, I think I see this character as contributing through casting more than anything else. I see the Dreamstone Chainmail "I ignore hostile magic" Dwarf being a fair contributor when you take into account that he can covertly drop buffs before combat even begins, even if he's being watched whilst doing so, meaning his round-two buff total is pretty much universally 3, or 4 if he's using a rod to quicken this or that, which is pretty good, and covers more or less all the buffs you'd really want your party to have very quickly. That is with the disadvantage of having to suffer a 10% chance to fail either opening buff, which is, in my opinion, worth the risk under the circumstances that you would need the fourth buff anyway. Is there a way to turn a swift action into a standard that I'm missing here?

Either way, two performances and a spell's worth of buff is a fair boon to your friends already, and then you get to sneak attack sometimes. Even with spells! By 20th level, as well, you'll end up declaring not one but two things per day to be sneak attacks without having to bother generating the right circumstances for one.

[grarrrg]

There's also the fact that if I stack the Dwarf's special Bard FC option with Arcane Armor training and Mastery, by level 20 I'll be wearing up to 40% failure chance armor and blowing all my swift actions on not giving a ****. That sounds pretty cool to start with, so let's see what it nets us by messing with materials and so on. Full plate's ASF is 35%, so it doesn't even need to be Mithral by 20th level and it'll still work just fine. That means our options open to pretty much every other special material, like Adamantine, which is the first thing that comes to mind - DR 3 doesn't hurt.
I pulled 40% ASF out of my ass, I notice - it's actually a 30% ASF reduction, leaving us with slightly more limited options. In my opinion, our best option is now to get a feat slot free and stick to Chainmail instead of plate. Solid - this lets us buy, for example, Stone Singer - a fair Dwarvish option here.

Just to clear things up in case one of us missed something:
Dwarf+Bard ACF > 1% per level reduced chance Arcane Failure in Medium Armor only (Light is already 'failure free', no bonus for Heavy), gives Medium Armor Prof at 10%+. Effectively capped at 10%, as the plan is full Arcane Trickster levels.

Mithral reduces (metal-only) Arcane Failure by 10%, and/or reduces the 'lightness' of the armor.
"Other" materials can also reduce category
Skip Dreamstone, it adds 20% Arcane Failure, and that Failure applies regardless of armor category (so Bards in Light Dreamstone still have a Failure chance).

Arcane Armor Training/Mastery will give you an extra 10%/20% if you use a Swift action


Light and Medium+Mithral > No failure due to Bard class
Medium and Heavy+Mithral > Dwarf+Bard ACF applies for an 'easy' 20% reduction, up to 40% with Arcane Armor feats
Heavy > Skip it. Only the Arcane Armor feats will apply, which won't get you to 0%

[Thisguy_]

This all being the case, I'm feeling Adamantine Chainmail may be our best option here for armor selection if we go the ASF reduction route. I like the idea of a chainmail dwarf bard, as well - plus it doesn't hurt that the medium proficiency is free from level 10 onward to to FCB.