Have you played a high level caster without Concentration feats?

[Beelzebubba]

Been thinking about this a lot.

I'm about to pick up my first feat as a spellcaster in 5E, and getting Resilient Constitution or War Caster seems almost a no-brainer, almost a feat tax. I rolled really good stats - 17 Wis, 16 Dex, 16 Con - and I'm debating how I want to spend my feats. I'm a Land Druid, so I'm extremely Concentration-heavy.

The 'optimizer' in me wants to get War Caster, Resilient Con and boost Wisdom, but the 'flavorful' part of me wants to grab something like Skilled or Magic Initiate at a low enough level when those types of feats will have the most effect on the game. I just don't want to gimp my spellcasting by doing that.

We play West Marches style, so our composition and party size changes game to game, so I can't depend on a wall of tanks. The other spellcasters and I are good at coordinating our spell selection, so I always have a Bard or Wizard to help. But, I still get into melee a bit more often than I'd like now.


Those of you who play without feats - how does that affect the way you play your spellcasters?
Anyone played with and without feats to a decent level - say, 10 or more - have personal experience to share?
Can it work with a small party that isn't guaranteed to have a strong 'front line' of tanks?
Anyone play a high level summoner without any Concentration feats and live to tell the tale?
Do you find yourself running out of spells due to re-casting after blown Concentration checks?
How do things change when you hit 5th level? Is it easier to avoid melee then?


TIA!

[TheUser]

Been thinking about this a lot.

I'm about to pick up my first feat as a spellcaster in 5E, and getting Resilient Constitution or War Caster seems almost a no-brainer, almost a feat tax. I rolled really good stats - 17 Wis, 16 Dex, 16 Con - and I'm debating how I want to spend my feats. I'm a Land Druid, so I'm extremely Concentration-heavy.

The 'optimizer' in me wants to get War Caster, Resilient Con and boost Wisdom, but the 'flavorful' part of me wants to grab something like Skilled or Magic Initiate at a low enough level when those types of feats will have the most effect on the game. I just don't want to gimp my spellcasting by doing that.

We play West Marches style, so our composition and party size changes game to game, so I can't depend on a wall of tanks. The other spellcasters and I are good at coordinating our spell selection, so I always have a Bard or Wizard to help. But, I still get into melee a bit more often than I'd like now.


Those of you who play without feats - how does that affect the way you play your spellcasters?
Anyone played with and without feats to a decent level - say, 10 or more - have personal experience to share?
Can it work with a small party that isn't guaranteed to have a strong 'front line' of tanks?
Anyone play a high level summoner without any Concentration feats and live to tell the tale?
Do you find yourself running out of spells due to re-casting after blown Concentration checks?
How do things change when you hit 5th level? Is it easier to avoid melee then?


TIA!

Most of my high level experience comes from Sorcerer play, which are hit less hard by the "feat tax" you speak of. Even in the absence of concentration saves, constitution saving throws are very common and definitely worth being proficient.

Warcaster is nice but by no means mandatory unless you are a character that is always in the fray and you are using a shield.

Most concentration spells are easy to maintain if you can find a way to stay hidden or behind full cover. You don't need a "front line" so much as you'll need to be wise about staying in the back and only peeking out from cover to cast.

[djreynolds]

I played a 13th mountain dwarf abjurer without feats. It was fine.

No BB/GFB back then, just used a war hammer without a shield and it was fine.

I failed some concentration checks, minimum is always a 10, my con was 16 so usually I needed a 7 on most checks. Some checks you will fail just cause the damage is so high

But I will tell you both my cleric and wizard got trounced by undead and paralysis, so resilient con would've been nice to have.

That's where failing con saves is bad, and +3 con save vs DCs whatever and when fail you get autocrit.

So I recommend resilient con, dex is damage and you have absorb elements nowadays to fix a low dex save and just avoid beholders.

Many of my concentration checks were on protection from evil which I had placed on another melee type or haste also placed on them.

But obviously the abjuration's ward helped out a lot when I was getting attacked

For a druid I believe you still need a focus, unlike a cleric or druid who can use their shield, but honestly it is easy enough to sheathe a weapon and cast.

So I think you still need war caster if you are going S&B with a druid, and its worth it because advantage is like +5 to concentration checks, the trouble really runs when you encounter stuff that forces regular old con saves like poison (which you do become immune to) and stun/paralysis.

My advice is to stay out of melee unless you need to take some heat off the tanks and just provide another target to get hit. At that point you just surviving is paramount.

So lets say you have moonbeam going and you are doing something else, either spamming thorn whip or wild-shaping and attacking, here at lower levels war caster's advantage is much more powerful, as you have around +3 and +5(advantage average) for +8.

But as you get higher say level 13, now resilient con has caught up as the proficiency bonus is +5

So IMO pick your fights, if battling undead the wizard in the back can throw protection from evil on your just for the disadvantage the undead get to hit you or cast blur on yourself if you have it as a domain spell

---------------------------------

Consider a level of monk or barbarian with stats just for the unarmored defense, might be worth it to you.

[ruy343]

My only questions are:

Does the rest of your party super-optimize? If so, the DM might be balancing his encounters to challenge the others in your group
Do you want to be a combat wizard? If so, then you'll find in-character reasons to puck up war caster/resilient (constitution).

However, it sounds like you want to play a combat wizard (You'd rather pick up the Skilled feat, for instance. As such, I recommend that you just play what you wanted to play, and it'll work out.

My wizard, Appius Flavinus III (it was a roman setting, and it was awesome) never picked those up, and his party ended up calling him "the cheat sheet". My other wizard, Garrick the Tall (a halfling whose life goal was to learn the magic to make himself tall permanently) also never learned those feats. He did just fine (I mean... he did die, but he got better - the DM was throwing 4th-edition encounters at a 5th edition party...). In fact, both were incredibly fun to play!

[Finger6842]

I've never played a Land Druid but having said that I've played 4 Bard/x's to 18 or higer and 1 Wizard to 20, 3 of those without Feats. I typically have concentration up for most encounters and am rarely interrupted. I do stay back like a caster though and just shoot a bow with any free actions. The bow isn't a ton of damage but properly positioned can keep you out of range for most damage. It only really comes into play during small space encounters and then it's wise to use non concentration spells. Resilient CON is highly recommended more for the save function than concentration.

[Sigreid]

It sounds like you use a lot of concentration spells. So if you're losing concentration a lot now, I'd take resilient con now. If it hasn't been an issue yet, I'd wait and either pump wisdom or take one of those other feats you want to take. An 18 wisdom is reasonable for a good portion of the game.

It's also worth noting that there are some feats that you could take for spooky wilderness man flavor that also add one to your wisdom. Not a bad way to get both.

[Findulidas]

I prefer to pick warcaster, because then I can still pick resiliency dex and get the most out of both con saves and dex saves at the same time. You cant have resiliency in two saves by RAW I think.

[Beelzebubba]

This is great, exactly what I was hoping.


I played a 13th mountain dwarf abjurer without feats. It was fine.

No BB/GFB back then, just used a war hammer without a shield and it was fine.

--

For a druid I believe you still need a focus, unlike a cleric or druid who can use their shield, but honestly it is easy enough to sheathe a weapon and cast.

So I think you still need war caster if you are going S&B with a druid...

My DM is pretty lenient with casting; he doesn't bother with the whole 'must have a free hand with Somatic and not Material' issue. If I'm holding the focus I can cast. So, War Caster isn't essential.

Since I'm generally doing what others suggest - throwing up something for battlefield control like Moonbeam or Spike Stones, and then flinging around cantrips - I'm fine.



My only questions are:

Does the rest of your party super-optimize? If so, the DM might be balancing his encounters to challenge the others in your group
Do you want to be a combat wizard? If so, then you'll find in-character reasons to puck up war caster/resilient (constitution).

However, it sounds like you want to play a combat wizard (You'd rather pick up the Skilled feat, for instance. As such, I recommend that you just play what you wanted to play, and it'll work out.

They're decently optimized, but not super optimized. They intentionally choose stuff that's flavorful over max power, but only after the base character is solid. Most are new to D&D, but veteran gamers so they haven't gotten into any trap builds.

I think I could out-powergame them if I wanted to, but my DM is savvy enough to call me on it. :D

[Sans.]

I'd say one or the other, but not both.

[Waterdeep Merch]

They're nice to have and a great idea- probably optimal under most builds- but you can absolutely get by without them. Few casters are anywhere near the front line when they start casting their important concentration spells, after all. If you're regularly getting hit as a caster, your party is in serious trouble regardless.