Help with psionics

[Dyanamo]

I need some advice on what to create. I have a rogue 5 shadowdancer 2. I'm not too happy with how the SD has turned out, she's really quite ineffective. So I'd like to go in to psionics. My DM has suggested I pick from one of the psions or psyrogue but I wonder if soulknife or psywar would be a better fit. I already have a nice sneak attack and stealth ranks so wasn't sure if I should forgo the psyrogue. Any advice would be appreciated.

[Zaq]

When you say "go into psionics," are you advancing your current character (i.e., the existing build stays as created but future levels are taken in a psionic class), rebuilding your current character (i.e., you're still the same character, but you're retconning or retraining some or all of your class levels to be psionic classes instead), or scrapping your current character (i.e., starting fresh with an entirely psionic character who isn't necessarily trying to do exactly what your current character does/did)? Because the answer is going to change based on that.

Your sentence about "already having" Sneak Attack makes me think that you're advancing your character, but I've learned better than to assume.

[Flickerdart]

If you are simply advancing your current character, psychic rogue is not a very good choice - they gain powers slowly and choose from a small list. Psychic warrior has a similar problem.

If you have a decent Wisdom, look into the Ardent (Complete Psionic). Unlike other psionic classes, it has no "maximum power known" restriction and can learn any power it can manifest (meaning that its PP reserve and ML are high enough). As a rogue 5/shadowdancer 2/ardent 1 you could only learn level 1 powers, but at level 9 when you became a rogue 5/shadowdancer 2/ardent 2 you could take Practiced Manifester, increasing your total manifester level to 6, and allowing you to learn a 2nd or 3rd level power.

If your Intelligence is your preferred stat instead, psion is not a bad option. They gain many power points, and some low-level powers are very effective when augmented.

[Dyanamo]

I would need to base of Int as Wis is only 10.
And I was unaware of the specific wording to use. Basically I have a stealthy melee character that can't take too much of a hit. Lol The party consists of a monk who just levelled to seven, a barbarian horizon walker 3lvs to each, a wizard lvl 6 and a Druid lvl 6. We don't have any healer type people but the DM is generous with CLW wands and various scrolls which are what I am using to buff my poor performance. I have high (ish?) dex and with the various gear I have a nifty reflex save of 6.
Our basic encounters begin with me hiding in plain sight if I make the roll. The Barbarian/horizon walker usually wins initiative and he and I usually flank each other. But I still get my ass kicked pretty good.
So I asked the DM if I could advance my character in to psionics, he said yes and asked me to let him know what I come up with. I bought the Ultimate Psionics book and have been reading up on it and while I'm not finished reading it, I haven't found anything that says how to (or even if I could Not) take levels in psy based on previous builds.
I should also mention that this is my first foray in to D&D and I love it! So that's why I'm here asking for help :-)

[ATHATH]

Remember the Number 1 Rule of Psionics: You CANNOT spend more PP on a power (base cost+any augmentations) than your Manifester Level.

Does your party's Druid have the Natural Spell feat?

WHY do you want to go into Psionics? What are you looking to gain from Psionic classes?

[ATHATH]

In what way, exactly, are you feeling inadequate? Do you not deal enough damage? Are you desperately wanting to be less squishy? Do you want to do more out of combat stuff?

Speaking of which, what do you do outside of combat?

[DrMartin]

I bought the Ultimate Psionics book and have been reading up on it [...]

Ultimate Psionics is a pathfinder book, which alters and expands the psionic rules for d&d 3.5. You should mention which edition (or blends of editions) you are playing, as you will usually get better advice.


[...] and while I'm not finished reading it, I haven't found anything that says how to (or even if I could Not) take levels in psy based on previous builds.

Taking levels in a psionic class is like taking levels in any other class. Just as you could take levels of sorcerer at any point during you character´s career, thus establishing that your character has a previously unknown and untapped source of arcane magic inside of her, you can at any time take levels in a psionic class, unlocking you character´s powers. There´s no special requirement to psionic class levels beyond psionics being allowed in the game in the first place.

As far as actual advice on your build - there's people out there with way better knowledge of pathfinder psionics, but here's a couple of options:

- Since you are a shadowdancer you already have dodge and mobility as feats. That means that after two levels of psion(nomad), you could then progress into elocater, which is a really fun prestige class to expand on your roguish skills. Access to psion powers would give you good defense options (vigor, for starters). If you go this way, grab practiced manifester (the feat) as soon as you can, as the higher manifester level will boost the amount of power points you can spend on a single power, as well as the bonus power points you get from your intelligence score.

- You could look into the soulknife: the class from ultimate psionic is way better than its 3.5 counterpart. It has a larger hit die (d10) and full base attack, the flavour is cool, and the blade skills you gain every other levels allow for some good customisation. There's also two roguish archetypes (cut-throat and nimble blade) that you can look into. Nimble blade in particular gives you some nice combat boosts (free weapon finesse, and dex to damage). It will probably improve your offense decently while allowing you to pick psionic feats, but it doesn't offer a lot to improve on your defenses aside from the larger hit die

- another fun class from ultimate psionic is the aegis. It's rather customisable and int-based class that summons psionic-powered armor from thin air. It would allow you to be sneaky and then "armor up" for combat on the fly. I don't really know the class that well but maybe there's something there for your character, especially if you feel that you need help with survival. There's a prestige class called metaforge that blends soulknife and aegis, if you find both these classes interesting - but since you already are level 7 or so it may be too late for your character build to reap the benefit of this multiclass.

[ExLibrisMortis]

I would recommend advancing as Telflammar Shadowlord (prestige class from Unapproachable East). As rogue 5/shadowdancer 2, you'll mainly need the Spring Attack feat chain and Blind-Fight, the rest of the qualification is easy. Telflammar Shadowlord gives you intelligence-based spellcasting, and while it's modest in volume, it is tailored exactly to sneaky combat rogues. Many good spells ([improved/mass] invisibility, haste, displacement, dimension door) appear at a lower level on the TSL list than on the sorcerer/wizard list, so you can get them with fewer levels.


The main TSL ability is Shadowpounce, gained at 4th level. It'll allow you to execute a (melee) full attack after using any [teleportation] ability. That means: teleport next to enemy while invisible > full attack against flat-footed AC > swift-action teleport next to same enemy > another full attack. Very potent, very rogue-appropriate.

[Wristlet Eater]

my poor performance

We can help you more if you tell us what area you are performing poorly in.

[Ursus Spelaeus]

Have you considered instead taking levels in swordsage from Tome of Battle? Half of your other class levels would count toward your initiator level, so you're not starting from the beginning as you would with manifester levels. You would be able to jump right into level 2 maneuvers without having to take level 1 maneuvers.
The Shadow Hand discipline would help you tremendously. There's even a stance that increases you sneak attack damage. Plus, you get access to a feat that lets you add your Dexterity modifier to damage.

[Bohandas]

If you have a decent Wisdom, look into the Ardent (Complete Psionic). Unlike other psionic classes, it has no "maximum power known" restriction and can learn any power it can manifest (meaning that its PP reserve and ML are high enough). As a rogue 5/shadowdancer 2/ardent 1 you could only learn level 1 powers, but at level 9 when you became a rogue 5/shadowdancer 2/ardent 2 you could take Practiced Manifester, increasing your total manifester level to 6, and allowing you to learn a 2nd or 3rd level power.

I think you're thinking of the erudite

[EisenKreutzer]

I would need to base of Int as Wis is only 10.
And I was unaware of the specific wording to use. Basically I have a stealthy melee character that can't take too much of a hit. Lol The party consists of a monk who just levelled to seven, a barbarian horizon walker 3lvs to each, a wizard lvl 6 and a Druid lvl 6. We don't have any healer type people but the DM is generous with CLW wands and various scrolls which are what I am using to buff my poor performance. I have high (ish?) dex and with the various gear I have a nifty reflex save of 6.
Our basic encounters begin with me hiding in plain sight if I make the roll. The Barbarian/horizon walker usually wins initiative and he and I usually flank each other. But I still get my ass kicked pretty good.
So I asked the DM if I could advance my character in to psionics, he said yes and asked me to let him know what I come up with. I bought the Ultimate Psionics book and have been reading up on it and while I'm not finished reading it, I haven't found anything that says how to (or even if I could Not) take levels in psy based on previous builds.
I should also mention that this is my first foray in to D&D and I love it! So that's why I'm here asking for help :-)

Are you playing D&D, Pathfinder or both?

[Flickerdart]

I think you're thinking of the erudite

I am most certainly not. The Erudite is subject to the same power level restrictions as the psion, of which it is a variant.

[Dyanamo]

Thank you all so much for the advice. I have my homework cut out for me before we get together this afternoon!
My DM says that Pathfinder and 3.5 are similar so I need to run it by him first but that I could action the psionics with my rogue/sd.