Ice Blaster [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

LaRayna

2017-07-30, 05:57 PM

I had tried on another thread, but didn't quite get what I was hoping for. So I will try and refine this a bit. I am looking to make a cold focused blaster caster to go with a party. We are starting at level seven, and some people suggested stacking metamagic, but I will be taking the cold based feats for casting from frostburn, so stacking metamagic wont really be an option. I don't do well with summoning type things, buffs, debuffs, or the like. I am more of a single minded blast it once, and blast it hard type. I have three templates available to use which are death knight, half nymph, and spellwarped creature from forgotten realms, also the gravetouched ghoul. My initial thought was to start off with sorcerer and go frost mage prestige class, but beyond that, I'm not sure what I should do. I would like to stay more cold centric rather than branching out into something like sand shaper or dread witch. And someone had suggested twenty levels of druid previously, but without being able to take a creatures special qualities, it seems a bit useless in my opinion. My second thought was divine casting and going winterhaunt of iborighu, but clerics do not get any really good cold spells except later on in the cold or winter domains. So if anyone could help me I would greatly appreciate it. Also, in terms of what is allowed, no third party material, DM doesnt like loopholes, hes very means a RAW type, but he is allowing my to bypass the CON 13 requirement for the frostburn feats since undead are mostly immune to cold anyway. Thanks in advance.

PanosIs

2017-07-30, 06:43 PM

I haven't looked stuff up, but level 7 means Orb of Cold, and there are a bunch of quite decent blasting spells as you level up. Arcane or Divine caster is really a flavor choice, but if you go Arcane I'd look towards some light mailman flavor, with Sorcerer, Arcane Fusion, Arcane Spellsurge and blasting metamagic (Twin, Empower, Maximize). Iceberg is a really good capstone spell for your build with guaranteed damage, although its quite far away still.

LaRayna

2017-07-30, 06:54 PM

AnimeTheCat

2017-07-30, 07:04 PM

From complete arcane there's energy substitution and Lord of Uttercold which can turn any spell in to a cold spell that deals half the damage as cold and half as negative energy.

LaRayna

2017-07-30, 07:14 PM

From complete arcane there's energy substitution and Lord of Uttercold which can turn any spell in to a cold spell that deals half the damage as cold and half as negative energy.

I'm familiar with it, but again, I need help with class level decisions, not feats.

J-H

2017-07-30, 07:30 PM

If you can swing it ,Red Wizard from the DMG gives CL boosts and is thus quite strong. Archmage is also good for shaping your aoes to prevent team damage. Both, and most prcs, have a feat tax though.

Elemental savant may be worth a look as well.

SangoProduction

2017-07-30, 07:53 PM

Spheres of Power has the Destruction sphere, which is basically the entire blasting thing, and scaling damage.

Mato

2017-07-30, 08:10 PM

Warmage out of dragonlance's age of mortals. I've also heard good things about the stormcaster even through it loses a caster level if you like to blast stuff.

Anxe

2017-07-30, 08:28 PM

Elemental Savant isn't strong, but its flavorful. You trade 2 caster levels for +2 against spell resistance and +1 on spell DCs for each caster level. And energy resistance. I'd recommend it for anyone going that route due to crunch matching fluff and all that, but there are other builds that would be more powerful.

It's a large departure from your original plan, but I'd also recommend The Harrowed (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?188148-3-5-Base-Class-Harrowed-PEACH). It's a homebrewed class that's similar to the Warlock that can do elemental stuff. You're basically a normal person possessed by an ice demon (or something along those lines). It's a T3 class, but it can be optimized to T2 if you want. I've really enjoyed including it in my campaign.

TotallyNotEvil

2017-07-30, 11:21 PM

Warmage out of dragonlance's age of mortals. I've also heard good things about the stormcaster even through it loses a caster level if you like to blast stuff.

Agreed, this class should get more love.

I'd go with sorcerer myself, mostly because I like the flavor.

Demidos

2017-07-31, 12:52 AM

I wouldn't discount druid. Druid does allow you quite a few powerful ice spells, including one of my all-time favorites, Frostfell (Giant AOE save or die. If you pass, you take 1d6 per level damage, only a 7th level spell). Furthermore, you get access to the very snazzy and still thematic combo of snowsight (see through snow) and sleet storm (storm of snow stops visibility). Cast a few snowsights on your party, and you have an hours per level buff that effectively neuters many of your foes. I know you're not looking for feat advice, but you mentioned that druid doesnt give you the abilities of the creatures you turn into -- with a bit of feats, it actually does.

Remuko

2017-07-31, 01:20 AM

If youre planning on Ice Blasting I'd def take the Ice reserve feat for icy breath cones for 1d4 x highest cold spell dmg infinite times per day

Biffoniacus_Furiou

2017-07-31, 01:40 AM

I'd go Archivist (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20051007a&page=3), considering how many amazing cold spells are on the Druid and Cleric lists:

Ice Slick (Frostburn)
Creeping Cold (21d6 with a Lesser Rod of Extend)
Ice Axe
Snowsight + Obscuring Snow (Frostburn, game breaking)
Icelance
Call Avalanche (Frostburn)

Plus you'll still have access to just about every good cold spell on the Sorcerer/Wizard list thanks to domain lists, since you can learn any spell in the game that can be put on a divine scroll.

You could dip Sacred Exorcist for Turn Undead so you can DMM: Persist a few choice spells, namely Ice Axe, but that's three feats you probably want to spend elsewhere.

If you want to go the Snowsight + Obscuring Snow route, get everyone in the party to throw in 2,000 gp for a 1st level Pearl of Power and to go in thirds on Lesser Rods of Extend. Cast Extended Snowsight on yourself, recover it with a pearl and cast it again extended on a party member, repeat for each character who contributed. Obscuring Snow lasts just as long, you can Lesser Rod of Extend that as well, and it's on just about every class spell list so multiple characters can keep it running. Just bear in mind that this completely breaks the game, I wouldn't ever recommend it for practical optimization, I don't even know why they printed those spells in the first place.

LaRayna

2017-07-31, 06:27 AM

AnimeTheCat

2017-07-31, 06:38 AM

I'm familiar with it, but again, I need help with class level decisions, not feats.

My intent was to show you that no matter what class you pick, you'll be free to use whatever spells you want with an energy descriptor. I would suggest a wizard and take the evoker variant that gives you a +1 caster level to any spell with the [Cold] descriptor, then go in to master specialist until you meet the prerequisites for whatever prestige class you're looking to enter. Truth be told, going to Master Specialist might benefit you more than frost mage. With being a specialist wizard with spell focus/greater spell focus gets +3 to the DCs for evocations spells.

I like the idea of a wizard better because blasting isn't particularly effective unless you can apply metamagic effects and Sorcerers aren't too good at doing that until they can do it without taking full rounds for it.

Either way you go, you're going to have fun I think.

LaRayna

2017-07-31, 06:57 AM

My intent was to show you that no matter what class you pick, you'll be free to use whatever spells you want with an energy descriptor. I would suggest a wizard and take the evoker variant that gives you a +1 caster level to any spell with the [Cold] descriptor, then go in to master specialist until you meet the prerequisites for whatever prestige class you're looking to enter. Truth be told, going to Master Specialist might benefit you more than frost mage. With being a specialist wizard with spell focus/greater spell focus gets +3 to the DCs for evocations spells.

I like the idea of a wizard better because blasting isn't particularly effective unless you can apply metamagic effects and Sorcerers aren't too good at doing that until they can do it without taking full rounds for it.

Either way you go, you're going to have fun I think.

Perhaps. Though there is the sorcerer alternate feature to trade a familiar for adding metamagic without increasing casting time so many times per day

AnimeTheCat

2017-07-31, 07:12 AM

Perhaps. Though there is the sorcerer alternate feature to trade a familiar for adding metamagic without increasing casting time so many times per day

Either one is viable. With the Wizard, you'll deal 1 extra dice of damage for every evocation spell that does xd6/level damage (up to the maximum of course). So a 5th level evocation specialist wizard is going to deal 6d6 damage with a fireball instead of 5d6. In both cases, you'll need to pay the metamagic cost unless you have reducers like Arcan Thesis and whatnot.

LaRayna

2017-07-31, 07:28 AM

Either one is viable. With the Wizard, you'll deal 1 extra dice of damage for every evocation spell that does xd6/level damage (up to the maximum of course). So a 5th level evocation specialist wizard is going to deal 6d6 damage with a fireball instead of 5d6. In both cases, you'll need to pay the metamagic cost unless you have reducers like Arcan Thesis and whatnot.

True, one extra reason I love sorcerer us the battle sorcerer variant with battle caster and mithral full plate

AnimeTheCat

2017-07-31, 07:43 AM

True, one extra reason I love sorcerer us the battle sorcerer variant with battle caster and mithral full plate

I'm not sure how you're getting Mithral Full Plate not to have any arcan spell failure chance, but in Complete Mage, there's a fighter ACF that takes away your Heavy and Medium Armor proficiency but it allows you to cast any spell from an arcane spell casting class while ignoring the ASFC from any light armor and light shield. I feel like, even though you lose one caster level, it is better. You gain proficiency in ALL martial weapons and you can use light shields while casting spells. Since you're not starting at level 1, the loss of caster level probably wouldn't cost you too dearly.

EDIT:
This would let you use a mithral breastplate without any risk of ASFC as well as an enchanted light shield. Furthermore, you could get an animated shield and a greatsword if you wanted some form of melee backup attack that wasn't lame.

LaRayna

2017-07-31, 07:47 AM

I'm not sure how you're getting Mithral Full Plate not to have any arcan spell failure chance, but in Complete Mage, there's a fighter ACF that takes away your Heavy and Medium Armor proficiency but it allows you to cast any spell from an arcane spell casting class while ignoring the ASFC from any light armor and light shield. I feel like, even though you lose one caster level, it is better. You gain proficiency in ALL martial weapons and you can use light shields while casting spells. Since you're not starting at level 1, the loss of caster level probably wouldn't cost you too dearly.

EDIT:
This would let you use a mithral breastplate without any risk of ASFC as well as an enchanted light shield. Furthermore, you could get an animated shield and a greatsword if you wanted some form of melee backup attack that wasn't lame.

Battle sorcerer variation allows sorcerer to cast in light armor no failure. Battle caster feat bumps it to medium. Mitral full plate counts as medium

AnimeTheCat

2017-07-31, 08:14 AM

Battle sorcerer variation allows sorcerer to cast in light armor no failure. Battle caster feat bumps it to medium. Mitral full plate counts as medium

I see, and I knew that existed, but where are you getting medium armor proficiency? Even Mithral Full Plate carries a -3 Armor Check Penalty and that would apply on your attack rolls unless you were proficient. That also doesn't apply to shields where the fighter ACF does.

As you can probably guess, I'm not a big fan of the Battle Sorcerer ACF and I would rather sacrifice a caster level for better/more proficiencies. It's my opinion, but neither is a particularly bad option. I just find the fighter ACF to be better to the Sorcerer one.

LaRayna

2017-07-31, 08:25 AM

Regardless I've gotten off topic. Prestige classes.

AnimeTheCat

2017-07-31, 08:50 AM

Regardless I've gotten off topic. Prestige classes.

Master Specialist if you go wizard as it provides full casting progression and caster level increases, taking Energy Affinity [Cold] at first level, trading your familiar away.

If you're going sorcerer, I guess frost mage is fine, but it doesn't really give you any sort of boost to your damage. Level 4 gives you a metamagic feat for free, with a little bonus. If you can do an incantrix, that may be better. You really will need to be focusing on metamagic and such so Incantrix would do well. Again though, Sorcerer is difficult to start with metamagic because, even with the metamagic specialist ACF, you only get 3+int modifier times per day use of the ability.

LaRayna

2017-07-31, 01:35 PM

Master Specialist if you go wizard as it provides full casting progression and caster level increases, taking Energy Affinity [Cold] at first level, trading your familiar away.

If you're going sorcerer, I guess frost mage is fine, but it doesn't really give you any sort of boost to your damage. Level 4 gives you a metamagic feat for free, with a little bonus. If you can do an incantrix, that may be better. You really will need to be focusing on metamagic and such so Incantrix would do well. Again though, Sorcerer is difficult to start with metamagic because, even with the metamagic specialist ACF, you only get 3+int modifier times per day use of the ability.

Everyone keeps telling me metamagic and that's not really what I'm trying to do. I'm planning on using all the frostburn feats to control the cold weather and power up my cold spells and go for classes similar

lord_khaine

2017-07-31, 01:50 PM

LaRayna

2017-07-31, 02:12 PM

Are there any pressing need for a prestice class?

Pure wizard is to start with one of the strongest and most diverse classes in the game. If you want to be a pure caster then there really isnt any need for picking anything else.

Just get energy substitution:Cold and your golden.

I understand diverse, but how is it strongest? And I've always been under the impression prestige classes only make you stronger

lord_khaine

2017-07-31, 04:21 PM

I understand diverse, but how is it strongest? And I've always been under the impression prestige classes only make you stronger

Diversity is strenght, you can do more with arcane magic than with any other casting/manifesting style.

And its actually not even the case. For a wizard a lot of prestice classes makes you weaker. Either because they cost you caster levels. Or else because the requirements to enter the prestice class costs more than what you get from it in useful class features.

Though i though strenght was not to much of a concern when your choosing to be a specialised elemental blaster?
Normally thats more a choice picked for fun and flavor.

DrMotives

2017-07-31, 04:42 PM

Archivist can only learn cleric spells. Not druid spells. And even then, you need to find the scrolls which is far easier said than done.

Well, only cleric spells can be selected for free on leveling up. Druid spells and all other divine spells are ok if they come from a scroll, which is why having a warlock buddy is often suggested for an archivist. Warlocks can use a UMD check to emulate having caster lists for item creation purposes, and co-opt item creation means the archivist can use their "scribe scroll" bonus feat so the warlock doesn't even need to grab that one. Then look at all the blaster spells on domain lists, druid list, and shugenja lists, and your archivist can do pretty much anything a wizard can do.

ATHATH

2017-07-31, 05:02 PM

Archivist can only learn cleric spells. Not druid spells. And even then, you need to find the scrolls which is far easier said than done.
Actually, they can learn and cast ANY divine spell from ANY list. Paladin spells, Ranger spells, Druid spells, Cleric spells, spells scribed by the Divine Bard variant, spells from Domains, etc. are all fair game.

LaRayna

2017-07-31, 06:00 PM

Actually, they can learn and cast ANY divine spell from ANY list. Paladin spells, Ranger spells, Druid spells, Cleric spells, spells scribed by the Divine Bard variant, spells from Domains, etc. are all fair game.

Be that as it may, we hardly ever find scrolls, our DM isnt loosey goosey on items and the such, but my problem still hasn't quite been solved

LaRayna

2017-07-31, 06:01 PM

Diversity is strenght, you can do more with arcane magic than with any other casting/manifesting style.

And its actually not even the case. For a wizard a lot of prestice classes makes you weaker. Either because they cost you caster levels. Or else because the requirements to enter the prestice class costs more than what you get from it in useful class features.

Though i though strenght was not to much of a concern when your choosing to be a specialised elemental blaster?
Normally thats more a choice picked for fun and flavor.

To clarify again, I am using the string of feats from frostburn to drop the temperature and boost my cold spells. I'm just looking for prestige classes for this. Ideally I do not want to play a wizard because they are not the greatest imo, and I will more than likely be sticking with sorcerer

ATHATH

2017-07-31, 06:21 PM

Be that as it may, we hardly ever find scrolls, our DM isnt loosey goosey on items and the such, but my problem still hasn't quite been solved
What does the rest of the party look like?

LaRayna

2017-07-31, 06:30 PM

What does the rest of the party look like?

halfling rogue, elven ranger, half fiend fighter/barbarian, and a cleric who is a designated healer

ATHATH

2017-07-31, 06:50 PM

halfling rogue, elven ranger, half fiend fighter/barbarian, and a cleric who is a designated healer
The half-fiend knows that he has a hideously large LA, right?

Are you an Evil party, or is the Fighter/Barbarian fighting against his heritage or something like that? If the latter, he should be a (Lesser) Tiefling, because the Half-Fiend template is terrible (for PCs).

LaRayna

2017-07-31, 06:54 PM

The half-fiend knows that he has a hideously large LA, right?

Are you an Evil party, or is the Fighter/Barbarian fighting against his heritage or something like that? If the latter, he should be a (Lesser) Tiefling, because the Half-Fiend template is terrible (for PCs).

The half fiend template has been leveled down according to our DM's wishes and yes, he is fighting evil. They are a mostly neutral group

Biffoniacus_Furiou

2017-07-31, 07:53 PM

Archivist can only learn cleric spells. Not druid spells. And even then, you need to find the scrolls which is far easier said than done.

"At any time, an archivist can also add spells found on scrolls containing divine spells to his prayerbook, but he must make any rolls and spend the time required (see Adding Spells to a Wizard's Spellbook on page 178 of the Player's Handbook). The archivist can learn and thus prepare nonclerical divine spells in this fashion but the two free spells he gains for advancing in class level must be selected from the cleric spell list."

True, you would need to find scrolls or use one of the other methods a Wizard uses to add spells to a spellbook. This includes copying spells from another Archivist or from a library's collection, the standard rate is Spell Level x 50 gp (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/arcaneSpells.htm#arcaneMagicalWritings) which is significantly less than the cost of a scroll for spells above 1st level.

7th level WBL should be 19,000 gp, so you could potentially start with every non-Cleric cold spell in the game, especially if you can start with a Blessed Book (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#blessedBook) (or Archivist equivalent). After all, you don't need to be high enough level to cast a given spell to make the Spellcraft check to learn it.

LaRayna

2017-07-31, 08:10 PM

"At any time, an archivist can also add spells found on scrolls containing divine spells to his prayerbook, but he must make any rolls and spend the time required (see Adding Spells to a Wizard's Spellbook on page 178 of the Player's Handbook). The archivist can learn and thus prepare nonclerical divine spells in this fashion but the two free spells he gains for advancing in class level must be selected from the cleric spell list."

True, you would need to find scrolls or use one of the other methods a Wizard uses to add spells to a spellbook. This includes copying spells from another Archivist or from a library's collection, the standard rate is Spell Level x 50 gp (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/arcaneSpells.htm#arcaneMagicalWritings) which is significantly less than the cost of a scroll for spells above 1st level.

7th level WBL should be 19,000 gp, so you could potentially start with every non-Cleric cold spell in the game, especially if you can start with a Blessed Book (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#blessedBook) (or Archivist equivalent). After all, you don't need to be high enough level to cast a given spell to make the Spellcraft check to learn it.

What are you referring to with WBL?

Biffoniacus_Furiou

2017-07-31, 08:16 PM

What are you referring to with WBL?

DMG page 135, Table 5-1: Character Wealth By Level

It shows a 7th level character should have 19,000 gp worth of gear and beneficial expenditure.

Dancingdeath

2017-07-31, 10:20 PM

Take whatever classes you want and just regain any caster levels lost with the Improved Caster Level feat. Regain up to 4 lost levels and it applies to any new levels lost as you level up to 4.

ATHATH

2017-07-31, 11:58 PM

Take whatever classes you want and just regain any caster levels lost with the Improved Caster Level feat. Regain up to 4 lost levels and it applies to any new levels lost as you level up to 4.
That is terrible advice. The Improved Caster Level feat only increases caster levels, and does NOT patch up your spells/day. So, while a Wizard 11/Fighter 4 with the Improved Caster Level feat's spells will individually be as effective as a Wizard 15's spells, the Wizard 15 will have access to 8th level spells, while the Wizard 11/Fighter 4 will only be able to cast 6th level (and lower) spells.

Anxe

2017-08-01, 12:44 AM

At this point I'm not exactly sure what you want, so lets lay out what's been suggested.
Wizard/Archivist is the way to go for more power, but you want battle sorcerer cause its cool, gets armor, and doesn't need scrolls.
Elemental Savant feels like the way to go if you want flavor, but you don't want to do that because it kind of stinks compared to Sorcerer. You could do just 4 levels of Elemental Savant and not lose anything compared to sorcerer. Sorcerer 6/Frost Mage 10/Elemental Savant 4 is a fine build over time.
I'm not familiar with the other suggested classes enough to comment on them.
There's this junk (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Cryomancer_(3.5e_Prestige_Class)) if you want to delve into the homebrew palace of D&D Wiki.

For what you want, you already have a prestige class that screams, "I AM A COLD BLASTER MAGE!" More of that seems kind of unnecessary. There's two options for more coldness (Elemental Savant and Cryomancer from D&D Wiki). Did you want more Blaster power or something else?

EDIT: Noodling around revealed the "Generic Spellcaster" (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/genericClasses.htm#spellcaster) which is marginally better than sorcerer. It's not meant to be played without everyone else going into generic classes. If this the kind of power buff you're looking for?

ATHATH

2017-08-01, 01:05 AM

The Elemental Archon PrC will let you roll around with a 3-man squad of Ice Mephits if you dip into it for a level or two. I think Sha'irs can qualify for it without any shenanigans, but I'd have to check to be sure.

Dancingdeath

2017-08-01, 03:30 AM

That is terrible advice. The Improved Caster Level feat only increases caster levels, and does NOT patch up your spells/day. So, while a Wizard 11/Fighter 4 with the Improved Caster Level feat's spells will individually be as effective as a Wizard 15's spells, the Wizard 15 will have access to 8th level spells, while the Wizard 11/Fighter 4 will only be able to cast 6th level (and lower) spells.

I'm aware. Can't have everything though. It's a decent compromise and let's you take PrCs for flavor while softening the blow a bit.